Could polarisation of the community be hurting development of the game?

[tenshu 43]

I can't help noticing a rather extreme polarisation on the forums, there seems to be rabid fanboy's defending anything and everything, attacking anyone with criticism and churning out the same old 'it's alpha' lines. Then you have the extremely negative stereotype, that seems never to be appeased and who almost seems to feel like they have been cheated out of their money and want revenge. 

 

For an alpha to progress meaningfully, it needs criticism, and it needs appropriate praise when something is done right. I'm not sure how the devs are able to determine what they are doing right or wrong from this community, never mind what areas of the game they should be prioritising.

 

My conclusion is that I can't help thinking that a paid open alpha was a mistake and maybe the beta stage would have been more appropriate, it's a hard topic as the DayZ community has made the game as popular as it is but could also be it's worst enemy. 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Constructive criticism is welcome

 

Bitching and moaning in a non constructive manner is not.

 

 

 

[weedmasta 784]

Constructive criticism is welcome

 

Bitching and moaning in a non constructive manner is not.

 

Pretty much this.

[tenshu 43]

Constructive criticism is welcome

 

Bitching and moaning in a non constructive manner is not.

I agree, having a closed alpha would mean the devs could get a good cross section of people and machines and get very real constructive criticism.

Remember that people used to be paid to test and develop at this stage, now you have anyone and everyone paying the company to play and give their own version of events. 

[OrLoK 16191]

Hello there

 

What we do have is a selection of boarderline trolls and the occasional uninformed ranter.

 

When these folk rear their heads many rush to slap them down and poke holes in their lack of logic and facts.

 

In my mind blind fanboyism is as pointless as the trolling.

 

We want, nay NEED constructive criticism and discussion but its the troublesome posts that get the attention.

 

I don believe there's any polarisation.

 

There's many elements im not a fan of in DAYZ but on the whole the pros outweigh the cons.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I agree, having a closed alpha would mean the devs could get a good cross section of people and machines and get very real constructive criticism.

Remember that people used to be paid to test and develop at this stage, now you have anyone and everyone paying the company to play and give their own version of events. 

WARNING: THIS GAME IS EARLY ACCESS ALPHA. PLEASE DO NOT PURCHASE IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO ACTIVELY SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT OF THE GAME AND ARE PREPARED TO HANDLE WITH SERIOUS ISSUES AND POSSIBLE INTERRUPTIONS OF GAME FUNCTIONING.

 

That was not directed at you, just a small reminder

Edited April 10, 2014 by Caboose187

[Katana67 2907]

Constructive criticism is welcome

 

Bitching and moaning in a non constructive manner is not.

 

Here's the spectrum that I've always abided by.

 

Critique>Outlining Problems>Complaining>Bitching>Whining>Trolling

 

Damn, I remember I used to have a much more coherent spectrum... I always try to stay to the left of the spectrum.

 

EDIT - Found it, from way back in August! Constructive feedback>taking a critical viewpoint>griping>complaining>bitching>being inflammatory.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Katana67

[Rick1633 136]

I admit I have been a dick and too critical, but it was a response o the blind fanboyism.   I really want Dayz to succeed.   I dont expect forgiveness for the shit I said, but i will try to earn it back.  Thank you moderatorsfor not banning me.  My true heart is for dayz and the community of players to enjoy the game.

[terminal_boy 860]

I think forking out $/£20 for an open alpha game gives people the right to have their say.

[tenshu 43]

WARNING: THIS GAME IS EARLY ACCESS ALPHA. PLEASE DO NOT PURCHASE IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO ACTIVELY SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT OF THE GAME AND ARE PREPARED TO HANDLE WITH SERIOUS ISSUES AND POSSIBLE INTERRUPTIONS OF GAME FUNCTIONING.

 

That was not directed at you, just a small reminder

The thing is, it's like saying "look at this game all the you tubers and everyone else is playing, don't buy it though because you have nothing to offer"

In real life people see things they want to play, look to see if they can buy it, and then they buy it. Having a big warning in capital letters won't deter people as they are driven by what they see and what is popular, most people won't even notice that warning and will just watch the videos and go ahead and buy it. 

 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The thing is, it's like saying "look at this game all the you tubers and everyone else is playing, don't buy it though because you have nothing to offer"

In real life people see things they want to play, look to see if they can buy it, and then they buy it. Having a big warning in capital letters won't deter people as they are driven by what they see and what is popular, most people won't even notice that warning and will just watch the videos and go ahead and buy it. 

 

You can't even buy the game without seeing this warning. :rolleyes:

[tenshu 43]

I think forking out $/£20 for an open alpha game gives people the right to have their say.

And this is the problem, the paid alpha 'early access' model is at odds with reality, if you are truly expecting constructive criticism and help from all the people who buy the game, it's a delusion. 

I don't think the company is that stupid to think that this is what they would be getting, I think putting a paid open alpha was motivated by money, which I think is fine, but it means the dev's can't really listen too hard to the community that it has created. 

Edited April 10, 2014 by tenshu

[tenshu 43]

You can't even buy the game without seeing this warning. :rolleyes:

It's just like those terms and conditions, no one really even pay's attention, I know I didn't at least, but then I knew what an alpha stage was.

[Valadain 270]

And this is the problem, the paid alpha 'early access' model is at odds with reality, if you are truly expecting constructive criticism and help from all the people who buy the game, it's a delusion. 

I don't think the company is that stupid to think that this is what they would be getting, I think putting a paid open alpha was motivated by money, which I think is fine, but it means the dev's can't really listen too hard to the community that it has created. 

 

Money, yes, but not for the sake of money. Early access allows a game that is going to get some traction to turn into a funded project. I doubt BI expected the response they got with the game. I think they probably expected to make some profit and get the game development funded.

 

I absolutely agree that people should be able to speak their peace on the forums. In a constructive way. I think responses of "alpha" should only be acceptable on things that are clearly just place-holders or bugs. The response of alpha to suggested features or changes or criticisms of the direction a functionality is taking, should be considered non-responses.

[voxframe 31]

It's funny as I see the exact same polarization in my line of work(Network Sysadmin) when dealing with certain equipment vendors.

 

What stops the BS dead in its tracks, is active participation, involvement, and commitments/promises by the vendors/developers in the forums that contain the screaming.

 

Trolls no longer have fuel, and whiners are fed. Period. Peace.

 

I haven't been around for long, but already I see a serious lack of public participation (At least stable/standardized participation) on behalf of the dev team/leader.

 

Get one guy who can actively respond in here, issue hard commitments and statements, even if they get broken (Shit happens obviously) people will understand when there is communication.

 

Right now the announcement threads are ancient, a bazillion pages that nobody in their right minds will read, the dev blog is kinda/maybe active, the twitter account is random jargon... Etc.

 

That's not communication kids. It just takes a little, consistantly, and people are happy.

Ignore the crowd, and you will have an angry mob with nowhere to vent.

[OrLoK 16191]

Hello there

 

A quick glance at your previous posts, it does seem that you have quite a negative stance.

 

This alpha was never about the cash, if you had been following the development youd know that.

 

If you buy something and do NOT read the T and C's then you ONLY have yourself to blame.

 

I too have been involved in other game development and DAYZ is speeding ahead. I dont know where you get your slow/poor development from.

 

As to being odds with reality, we have recieved a vast amount of feedback which has assisted the devs in moving things forward.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

[OrLoK 16191]

It's funny as I see the exact same polarization in my line of work(Network Sysadmin) when dealing with certain equipment vendors.

 

What stops the BS dead in its tracks, is active participation, involvement, and commitments/promises by the vendors/developers in the forums that contain the screaming.

 

Trolls no longer have fuel, and whiners are fed. Period. Peace.

 

I haven't been around for long, but already I see a serious lack of public participation (At least stable/standardized participation) on behalf of the dev team/leader.

 

Get one guy who can actively respond in here, issue hard commitments and statements, even if they get broken (Shit happens obviously) people will understand when there is communication.

 

Right now the announcement threads are ancient, a bazillion pages that nobody in their right minds will read, the dev blog is kinda/maybe active, the twitter account is random jargon... Etc.

 

That's not communication kids. It just takes a little, consistantly, and people are happy.

Ignore the crowd, and you will have an angry mob with nowhere to vent.

Check the dev blog it had an update very recently.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[tenshu 43]

Money, yes, but not for the sake of money. Early access allows a game that is going to get some traction to turn into a funded project. I doubt BI expected the response they got with the game. I think they probably expected to make some profit and get the game development funded.

 

I absolutely agree that people should be able to speak their peace on the forums. In a constructive way. I think responses of "alpha" should only be acceptable on things that are clearly just place-holders or bugs. The response of alpha to suggested features or changes or criticisms of the direction a functionality is taking, should be considered non-responses.

Well said, I just hope the success of the mod and then the SA will not lead to complacency and things can move forward a bit faster than we have been seeing. There hasn't really been any serious competition for DayZ as of yet, people flocked to the WarZ game and got scammed basically. Now Sony are throwing their hat in the ring, a real serious contender is out there, but why would the team care? They already have their sales, so we are relying on them to listen to the community and make the game everyone has paid for. This for me changes the dynamic of consumer - producer relations, and the effect is yet to be determined. 

[tenshu 43]

Hello there

 

A quick glance at your previous posts, it does seem that you have quite a negative stance.

 

This alpha was never about the cash, if you had been following the development youd know that.

 

If you buy something and do NOT read the T and C's then you ONLY have yourself to blame.

 

I too have been involved in other game development and DAYZ is speeding ahead. I dont know where you get your slow/poor development from.

 

As to being odds with reality, we have recieved a vast amount of feedback which has assisted the devs in moving things forward.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

I haven't even commented on the alpha SA really, I was having problems with the mod ages ago but haven't had that much time to play the SA, so couldn't give much input.

 

I never said it's been poor development, just that it seems the core of the game is moving slowly compared to other closed alpha's I've been a part of, and are still a part of.

Edited April 10, 2014 by tenshu

[tenshu 43]

It's funny as I see the exact same polarization in my line of work(Network Sysadmin) when dealing with certain equipment vendors.

 

What stops the BS dead in its tracks, is active participation, involvement, and commitments/promises by the vendors/developers in the forums that contain the screaming.

 

Trolls no longer have fuel, and whiners are fed. Period. Peace.

 

I haven't been around for long, but already I see a serious lack of public participation (At least stable/standardized participation) on behalf of the dev team/leader.

 

Get one guy who can actively respond in here, issue hard commitments and statements, even if they get broken (Shit happens obviously) people will understand when there is communication.

 

Right now the announcement threads are ancient, a bazillion pages that nobody in their right minds will read, the dev blog is kinda/maybe active, the twitter account is random jargon... Etc.

 

That's not communication kids. It just takes a little, consistantly, and people are happy.

Ignore the crowd, and you will have an angry mob with nowhere to vent.

I just had someone inbox me about a thread they started regarding ragdoll physics,zombie gore etc and they got flamed for it by the dev's and it wasn't taken seriously. It seems (admittedly subjectively) that this process is already happening  

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I just had someone inbox me about a thread they started regarding ragdoll physics,zombie gore etc and they got flamed for it by the dev's and it wasn't taken seriously. It seems (admittedly subjectively) that this process is already happening  

I think I know which thread you are talking about and it was rightfully closed as the OP couldn't get it through their head that an overly grotesque game this is not going to be.

[tenshu 43]

I think I know which thread you are talking about and it was rightfully closed as the OP couldn't get it through their head that an overly grotesque game this is not going to be.

This is actually a great example of the dilemma the devs are facing, and how they are going to appease the community after they have already paid for the game.

 

What if a poll was done and the community did want more gore, if the devs just say no, people will think 'well what exactly am I doing as part of this alpha? Have I just paid to test the game?"

[voxframe 31]

It's true I seem to be posting quite negatively (As was pointed out a couple messages back) lately. Not my intention, but I do have some heavy gripes about the game.

 

It's a hard balance when you're asking for money, then if you deal with server hosting, you're being asked for more money... And things start hitting the fan.

 

Yes it's alpha, that's understood. But you're asking people to pay, so you do have some sort of commitment to live up to. (Which I think they ARE doing a good job of) But the communication is messy.

 

Simply put, there are things that could be smoothed out communication-wise.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

This is actually a great example of the dilemma the devs are facing, and how they are going to appease the community after they have already paid for the game.

 

What if a poll was done and the community did want more gore, if the devs just say no, people will think 'well what exactly am I doing as part of this alpha? Have I just paid to test the game?"

Adding more gore is one thing, but wanting to turn this into a complete over the top horror flick is not going to happen.  One of the suggestions I mentioned was the ability to have your melee weapons get embedded into the infected and have to attempt to pull it out.  Example, having your axe/hatchet embed into the skull on an infected.  

 

You need to remember there are limitations to what the game engine can do. 

Edited April 10, 2014 by Caboose187

[tenshu 43]

Adding more gore is one thing, but wanting to turn this into a complete over the top horror flick is not going to happen.  One of the suggestions I mentioned was the ability to have your melee weapons get embedded into the infected and have to attempt to pull it out.  Example, having your axe/hatchet embed into the skull on an infected.  

 

You need to remember there are limitations to what the game engine can do. 

I like that idea! (does that make me sick? :P )

 

Again you have brought up another good point, how are people who purchased the alpha meant to know the limitations of the engine or gaming in general when they have no experience in development themselves?