Ammo Needs Value in Finished Game

[blunce 991]

Hi all,

 

I know that this concept has been touched before, but I was unable to find a thread on the same ideas as mine.

 

Anyway, my concept basically is to make ammo as scarce as possible once the game is a finished product. It should really be a rarity, in the sense that it shall never be taken for granted.

 

-This would deter KOS. Not eliminate, but "deter" (water it down). I believe KOS will never be eliminated, ever. But I absolutely do believe that it can be reduced. Now I'm not one to complain about KOS as it's truly a part of the game & I believe that it's the victims fault for getting into the shooters sight in the first place (this is survival), but I do believe that it's not the concept that drives this game. DayZ (the finished game on paper) is not a shooter. If ammo were a true rarity, players would think twice before wasting 1 of their 7 FXN45 rounds that took them a week to find on a worthless fresh spawn, or would try to apprehend a geared player by outplaying them. Not by gunning them down because they have 100+ rounds to waste because they're a dime a dozen. Every shot must count.

 

-Firefights would be that much more exhilirating. Again, you must make every shot count, & there's no telling how much ammo your opponent has (the assumption is not very much). In the games current state, any armed geared player that you see, you could make the assumption that he has AT LEAST a mag or 2. It's more common than not.

 

-Purpose. It would give the players something to always do. Something they always need, something to always thrive for, & a priority in looting. It would add value to being armed. Ammo could potentially even serve as currency if this were the case.

 

-Player choice. Ammo scarcity would drive player rolls, & players decisions. Would you use rounds for hunting & potentially leave yourself that much more defenseless, or would you save ammo & put in the extra effort to hunt using a less accurate, less powerful makeshift bow? Would you use rounds as a threat while robbing people (warning shots to avoid damaging gear)? Or would you horde rounds strictly for defense & fire only when absolutely necessary?

 

-Hearing gunshots would be that much more suspenseful. If ammo were scarce, hearing rounds go off wouldn't be the most common thing. This would make the player with the ammo think before shooting, in order to not give away his position. & the player that heard the shot, would be in a world of paranoia even more than they would in the game's current state.

 

-Teamwork. I feel that the scarcity of ammo would drive players to work more together, more so in a "Player vs Environment" aspect. If the finished game is to be truly densely populated with stronger, faster zeds, it would be wise to travel in groups to defend one another where you would otherwise be outnumbered.

 

So that's a general summary of my concept. All-in-all, if ammo were rare, any situation involving it would be extremely suspenseful as it would in real life. It should be something to appreciate, to not take for granted, to admire when finally found. It should be precious.  Again, I know that this subject has been spoken about before, & if I'm not mistaken, the devs idea IS to make ammo more scarce I'm just not sure to what extent or exactly how they see fit.

 

Comments? Thoughts?

[cywehner1234 582]

I really agree. There is WAY too much ammo right now.

[DURRHUNTER 597]

Ammo and loot is fine the way it is. Infected just need to travel in larger packs so they are a threat so there is a reason to use ammo on infected. 

I agree with this, stronger zeds and more zeds will decrease KoS

[execpro22 128]

 

-This would deter KOS. Not eliminate, but "deter" (water it down). I believe KOS will never be eliminated, ever. But I absolutely do believe that it can be reduced. Now I'm not one to complain about KOS as it's truly a part of the game & I believe that it's the victims fault for getting into the shooters sight in the first place (this is survival), but I do believe that it's not the concept that drives this game. DayZ (the finished game on paper) is not a shooter. If ammo were a true rarity, players would think twice before wasting 1 of their 7 FXN45 rounds that took them a week to find on a worthless fresh spawn, or would try to apprehend a geared player by outplaying them. Not by gunning them down because they have 100+ rounds to waste because they're a dime a dozen. Every shot must count.

 

 

Your "Idea" has been posted about a million times since the alpha released...Just search for it and you would see at least five threads with your same "idea".

 

 

And in regards to your thopughts that lowering ammo would reduce KOS. Sorry to burst your bubble thats just not gonna happen. if people have even one bullet left they are still gonna use it to KOS. If they only have a melee weapon  left they will use that to KOS and if they just have fists they will KOS with those.

 

Just look at the game right now... How many times has a bambi tried to KO you with just his fists? Unless you take players out of the game KOS will not be lowered by nerfing ammo....

[blunce 991]

Your "Idea" has been posted about a million times since the alpha released...Just search for it and you would see at least five threads with your same "idea".

Couldn't find any .. This is why I apologized in advance.

 

And in regards to your thopughts that lowering ammo would reduce KOS. Sorry to burst your bubble thats just not gonna happen. if people have even one bullet left they are still gonna use it to KOS. If they only have a melee weapon  left they will use that to KOS and if they just have fists they will KOS with those.

What if said "one bullet" took a month to find? Would it really be worth shooting the next thing that you saw move?

 

Just look at the game right now... How many times has a bambi tried to KO you with just his fists? Unless you take players out of the game KOS will not be lowered by nerfing ammo....

The game in it's current state right now has very little content &/or value. Therefore, unarmed bambi's have little to nothing to lose in such a scenario. Most of the time when a bambi tries this they're unsuccessful. If they are successful, they simply outplayed their victim & deserved it.

[Geckofrog7 1168]

I believe once many more weapons are introduced, ammo will become scarce not in the way that you can't find it, but because you can't find the right type of ammo, since there'll be so many different ammo types around.

 

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74cHR6xpNI  :lol:

Love the book and game series.

[execpro22 128]

.

 

What if said "one bullet" took a month to find? Would it really be worth shooting the next thing that you saw move?

 

 

In one word. yes. This is coming from a fellow KOS'er. If I had one Bullet that took a month to get, what else would I use it on? In fact i would say that just having less ammo would make me KOS more frequently as I have a higher chance of finding ammo on player than the environment.

 

You got to understand that a KOS playstyle for me at least, has NOTHING to do with resources and more to do with entertainment value. I do it cuz it's fun to me. KOS has to do with a mentality more than resources.

 

People keep trying to fix the "problem" by nefring or restricting other parts of the game, but its kinda hard to control human nature in a sandbox game...

 

 

 

 

 

The game in it's current state right now has very little content &/or value. Therefore, unarmed bambi's have little to nothing to lose in such a scenario. Most of the time when a bambi tries this they're unsuccessful. If they are successful, they simply outplayed their victim & deserved it.

 

 

Bambi's would still have NOTHING to lose in your scenario and EVERYTHING to gain from killing any player they see. In fact i would say it would cause more bambis to be violent if you restrict the resources..

[Bubbled Luff 27]

The main reasons people KOS are:

1) lack of endgame 'tasks' (vehicles, bases, more things to do and reasons to travel the map)

2) lack of real zombie threat (actually improved on last patch, but in broken fashion)

3) human nature. A lot of people see this game as 'military gear shooter with zombie apocalypse setting' rather than 'apocalypse survival simulator' and will PVP and KOS regardless.

Reducing ammo spawn to nothing will not change things, granted it's too common at the moment, but hopefully this is just as the range of guns and ammo types are still quite small. With that said, do you pick up that 1911, 75 or FNX as things stand? Needing the right ammo and mags has made the choice harder - and this is choice/scarcity through variety that I can support.

[Geckofrog7 1168]

 I do it cuz it's fun to me. KOS has to do with a mentality more than resources.

Don't mean to sound like a douche, but how do you find it fun to kill every person you meet?

I personally enjoy player interaction a little more than right click + left click. :)

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

I love KoS and I love this Idea. Maybe you shouldn't need 7 days for 7 bullets but it shouldn't be quite as fast as at the moment. They should stop spawning magazines only and let bullets spawn in groups of 3-8 most of the time...

Edit: So you have to put bullets in the chamber until you finally find a magazine, birthday & christmas at once

Edited March 28, 2014 by Nesuma

[blunce 991]

In one word. yes. This is coming from a fellow KOS'er. If I had one Bullet that took a month to get, what else would I use it on? In fact i would say that just having less ammo would make me KOS more frequently as I have a higher chance of finding ammo on player than the environment.

So, you would KOS because it would be more resourceful to find ammo on said player, but..

 

You got to understand that a KOS playstyle for me at least, has NOTHING to do with resources and more to do with entertainment value. I do it cuz it's fun to me. KOS has to do with a mentality more than resources.

..It has NOTHING to do with resources & is merely for fun? I think you just simply have an itchy trigger finger.

 

People keep trying to fix the "problem" by nefring or restricting other parts of the game, but its kinda hard to control human nature in a sandbox game...

I never referred to KOS as a "problem", so don't quote me as if I did. I'm contributing to the development of this game by expressing my opinion on the concept. As I stated in my original post, I understand that KOS will forever be a part of the game, fair & square.

 

Bambi's would still have NOTHING to lose in your scenario and EVERYTHING to gain from killing any player they see. In fact i would say it would cause more bambis to be violent if you restrict the resources..

The finished game (on paper) will have much more content up north. Especially with basebuilding & storage, & therefore, geared players will not constantly be patrolling the coast where the bambis spawn, & the interactions will be fairly minimal. & again, most bambis that act hostile towards geared players, are more often than not, unsuccessful.

[BrainlessZombie 190]

doesn't even have to be stronger just more of them. I would bet most deaths would occur during the reload time when they get a chance to swarm a player and they cant shoot back.

No ammo no testing, this is ALPHA!! *kick on the chest*

 

Couldn't find any .. This is why I apologized in advance.

 

Did you even try the search option... Everyone knows you didnt, nobody DOES! *kick in the chest*

Edited March 28, 2014 by BrainlessZombie

[blunce 991]

I love KoS and I love this Idea. Maybe you shouldn't need 7 days for 7 bullets but it shouldn't be quite as fast as at the moment. They should stop spawning magazines only and let bullets spawn in groups of 3-8 most of the time...

Edit: So you have to put bullets in the chamber until you finally find a magazine, birthday & christmas at once

Thanks for the contribution Nesuma. I exaggerated my example a little bit just to really help everyone understand where I was coming from. Everything can be fine tuned & balaned ;)

[execpro22 128]

Don't mean to sound like a douche, but how do you find it fun to kill every person you meet?

I personally enjoy player interaction a little more than right click + left click. :)

 

 

Dont worry your striking me more as ignorant than being a douche...

 

let me enlighten you good sir....

 

 

 

I find tense firefights between players to be more entertaining and dare I say "real" interaction than...

 

 

"hey friendly"

 

"hi"

 

"hi"

 

"need anything?"

 

"nope"

 

"ok see you later"

 

"bye"

[blunce 991]

No ammo no testing, t

I'll start by saying that your name is very appropriate for the way you present yourself. If you read a little closer you would see that I referenced the end-game design multiple times.

 

Did you even try the search option... Everyone knows you didnt, nobody DOES! *kick in the chest*

Yes I did .. & no thread in the search results specified the same examples as I did. To say that nobody uses the search function is very ignorant.

[blunce 991]

Dont worry your striking me more as ignorant than being a douche...

 

let me enlighten you good sir....

 

 

 

I find tense firefights between players to be more entertaining and dare I say "real" interaction than...

 

 

"hey friendly"

 

"hi"

 

"hi"

 

"need anything?"

 

"nope"

 

"ok see you later"

 

"bye"

This is a common scenario in the game's current state. This topic is revolving around a concept of the game in it's FINISHED state, so please comment accordingly & constructively.

[execpro22 128]

So, you would KOS because it would be more resourceful to find ammo on said player, but..

 

..It has NOTHING to do with resources & is merely for fun? I think you just simply have an itchy trigger finger.

 

 

Hey if it's easier in your mind to put a label on me and just see me as having an itchy trigger finger thats fine, but I'm definately more than that.

 

I could say I see all friendly players as "carebears" whose only goal is to kill zombies and hide in the woods, but I wont because I realize you guys are more than that and serve a vital role in this game...

 

 

 

 

 

I never referred to KOS as a "problem", so don't quote me as if I did.

 

 

Where did I quote you as saying that? Im confused?

 

 

 

 

The finished game (on paper) will have much more content up north. Especially with basebuilding & storage, & therefore, geared players will not constantly be patrolling the coast where the bambis spawn, & the interactions will be fairly minimal. & again, most bambis that act hostile towards geared players, are more often than not, unsuccessful.

 

 

Agree, agree, agree, but....

 

 

 

Thats not going to stop them from trying....

[IshFingers 26]

I agree with the need to make ammo a rarity, rather than commonplace as it seems to be today. It is quite easy at this stage of the games' development to 'max out' your ammo without trying. To repeat something I said in a similar thread a week-or-so ago; on my 3pp character I've got over 120 Mosin rounds without really searching for them - just aimless wandering. Now assume I'm a good shot (I'm not) and competent in firefights (again, no) that's 120 potential kills.

I'm sure there will be adjustments made in the future to address the issues you've raised, but just to add a further 2 cents...

The location of bullet spawns is wide enough that, as I've experience, aimless wandering can load you up with obscene amounts. Most buildings bar the most desolate civilian buildings have the potential to spawn multiple rounds of ammo.

The quantity of ammo in a single box is huge - 20 Mosin bullets goes very far! Same for SKS - makes you very trigger happy. And up to 45 pistol rounds? If ammo is so commonplace, could this number be reduced?

Magazines & snap loaders containing ammo? It's twice the prize! Ok, ok, the scarcity of magazines is an issue that's been brought up time & again, but I would genuinely prefer having to seek to seek out separate components and combine them to be fully functional.

Though in the flip side, you want it to be fair on players without firearms to be able to stand up to zombies and other players - there are many ways this could be achieved, and many people have suggested a lot of good ideas. You don't want to find yourself in the situation that a single player/clan controls the map due to sheer firepower. Or maybe they should, if they genuinely spent weeks building up their armoury?

Again, I'm sure the devs will be implementing many changes over the next year or so effecting the value and scarcity of weapons (which, just to touch upon, also need to be reduced in their spawn frequency/scaled down) but am in no way going to let their appearance lessen the fun I have on this game.

Edited March 28, 2014 by IshFingers

[execpro22 128]

This is a common scenario in the game's current state. This topic is revolving around a concept of the game in it's FINISHED state, so please comment accordingly & constructively.

 

 

I constructively called out your ignorance in Labeling KOS as just "right click left click".

 

And made a case for why my playstyle is actually more "real" interaction than yours...

 

 

so, next time please comment constructively instead of dodging an answer you dont like...

 

Thank you...

[blunce 991]

Where did I quote you as saying that? Im confused?

You "quoted" "problem" by using QUOTATION marks ("") ..I'd rather not have a nonconstructive arguement. Please, either contribute or carry on.

 

...back on topic

[Frothyboot18 46]

Scarce ammo? So we will be going at each other with wrenches and bows? And axes? Pitch forks? Hoes? They should increase crafting too... I wanna max out my dual wield and my sneak, then craft myself a two handed dragon axe.... Hahaha

But seriously.... I think dayz is dayz coz of the guns.... Theres no way to lessen kos... Even in the mods.... Just deal with it.... Its just like being in a playground when you were little, there were bullies and push overs.... You cant play with everyone... Dont stand in the open doing the friendly dance waiting for the other guy to do the same.... Talk to someone from cover with your gun up... If he doesnt wanna play nice, kill him or avoif him... If he plays nice then kills you when you turn your back, then he was a douche and theres no cure for that

[execpro22 128]

You "quoted" "problem" by using QUOTATION marks ("") ..I'd rather not have a nonconstructive arguement. Please, either contribute or carry on.

 

...back on topic

 

 

Again how does putting quotation marks around the word mean I was quoting you?

 

 

I would argue I have contributed as much if not more to this topic by being one of the only posters voicing the obvious problems with your idea...

[blunce 991]

I constructively called out your ignorance in Labeling KOS as just "right click left click"

Don't mean to sound like a douche, but how do you find it fun to kill every person you meet?

I personally enjoy player interaction a little more than right click + left click. :)

........................................................................

[Scott61 93]

Less ammo would just encouarge more server hopping,most that are "KoS type" when killed have nothing but ammo on them with very little food or anything

watching some youtube video's the snipers and bandit that were killed all had so many clips and ammo it was crazy

 

So if ammo becomes hard to find,it will be even harder to actually find it as it will all be looted via server hopping!

 

You can not fix things like server hopping,base camping or KoS by trying to limit anything in game IMHO

[blunce 991]

Scarce ammo? So we will be going at each other with wrenches and bows? And axes? Pitch forks? Hoes? They should increase crafting too... I wanna max out my dual wield and my sneak, then craft myself a two handed dragon axe.... Hahaha

But seriously.... I think dayz is dayz coz of the guns.... Theres no way to lessen kos... Even in the mods.... Just deal with it.... Its just like being in a playground when you were little, there were bullies and push overs.... You cant play with everyone... Dont stand in the open doing the friendly dance waiting for the other guy to do the same.... Talk to someone from cover with your gun up... If he doesnt wanna play nice, kill him or avoif him... If he plays nice then kills you when you turn your back, then he was a douche and theres no cure for that

If you had read my original post you would understand that this topic isn't about KOS.