Remove the confirmation

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Player has died

Murders: 1337

Bandits Killed: 1

Why are these in the game? I suggest we remove these and any other notifications that remove any doubt from players minds.

I hate how the norm of games these days is to notify the player the instant he kills someone, usually in bright shiny colors, sometimes with audio cues.

It creates unrealistic behavior by players. People stop firing the instant they see the words. People dedicate their time to increasing the number. People use run and gun tactics, spraying at their target until the kill is confirmed. It removes a big part of real life combat, having to check if that guy is really dead.

I'm guessing the hardcore bandits don't need a counter anyway. The probably have their kills scratched into the side of their tower. You'll remember a kill, you don't need the counter. Zombies on the other hand....

[joaby 25]

I think at the moment it's a necessity because you need to be able to track whether you killed an enemy or whether he just disconnected like a scumbag. Eventually though, I think it'd be worthwhile to ditch all these things.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I think at the moment it's a necessity because you need to be able to track whether you killed an enemy or whether he just disconnected like a scumbag. Eventually though' date=' I think it'd be worthwhile to ditch all these things.

[/quote']

How do you track who dc's on you with kill confirmations? Isn't it the disconnect message that gives it away? Or the fact that they disappear in front of you.

[joaby 25]

The dc notice has disappeared, so you can't use that any more. And most people don't stand in the open when they're hitting abort, they dive behind cover (otherwise I would kill them). If you see them dive behind cover and the little 'bad_mojo was killed' confirmation comes up, you can be sure they're not hopping to a different server.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Perhaps the disconnect message could be put back in? I didn't know it had been removed.

It's not really concrete evidence of anyone dc'ing tho. So you know you were cheated, but you don't know by who, weather it was a power outage, their mom pulled the plug because the gunfire was too loud?

Don't get me wrong I hate dc'ers. I just fail to see how knowing it happened, but not knowing who, benefits anyone. Can they track that down if you report the time and server?

[RaymondThorne 0]

Notice that it is a 'debug monitor'

Hence, it will be removed.

[joaby 25]

Perhaps the disconnect message could be put back in? I didn't know it had been removed.

It's not really concrete evidence of anyone dc'ing tho. So you know you were cheated' date=' but you don't know by who, weather it was a power outage, their mom pulled the plug because the gunfire was too loud?

Don't get me wrong I hate dc'ers. I just fail to see how knowing it happened, but not knowing who, benefits anyone. Can they track that down if you report the time and server?

[/quote']

I don't think it's evidence of cheating either. I'm not using it for that. I'm using it to track whether I should go loot the bastards body or whether I should leave it alone because he's going to bandage up, shift 50 metres up a hill from where he was and then log back in to catch me in the lurch.

Like I said - eventually I think they should cut the confirmation out, but for now I kinda need it.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I know it's the debug menu and it'll be removed, I think it should happen now.

@Joaby, your post is exactly the stuff I'm trying to get rid of. You react to the kill counter. If this number rises you know all is well. Rush in and grab the loot.

Weather or not they're running away or disconnecting, what matters is what YOU are doing. DC'ers will use it too, shoot some bullets at a person, dive behind cover, if the number doesn't change, disconnect.

Edit: TL;DR? You can't fake death. :(

[BL1P 252]

I agree it should be removed I am just unsure if now is the time.

I agree with 2nd poster about the DC problem and would suggest this needs stopping before the monitor is removed.

Im looking forward to the day that rocket removes all the icons and the monitor :)

I want zero hud.

[terrvik 2409]

First of all, I play servers where there is no kill confirmation. The debug monitor is there of course but it will be removed.

I don't think disconnecting will be a big problem when no confirmation is standard. Well, it's a big problem but not a bigger problem because of this. If you aren't sure if you actually killed your target you will (or SHOULD if you are smart) be patient and scout the area well before moving in to confirm and loot. If someone disconnects he would have to wait a long time because he is not sure how long you will stay where you are. If all confirmation is removed no one will know anything, which is a good thing. :)

All it comes down to is that it is a great way to increase tension not knowing if the one you shot fled inside a building and bled out or are waiting inside to ambush you.

[FrIEND (DayZ) 9]

Go to a Veteran server = Problem solved

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I only play on expert servers. And they still say "Player was killed" and list your kills in the debug menu.

Are the kill messages a server side setting? Because I've seen them on every difficulty level.

[KField86 237]

What I would like to see removed is not the murder count, but the audible beep sound you hear when your bullet strikes an enemy target. And also the removal of the "Such and such has been killed on the chat dialog. I don't mind the murder counter the way it is...but god damn like I said get rid of that stupid beep! We're using live ammunition, not that military laser tag system(I forget the proper name of it). I'm all for walking up to confirm my kill, but I cannot tell you how many times where I should of gotten the kill(3 round burst with an M4 into the upper torso on a target), walked up to the target with pistol drawn, and before I can react, the target will usually lag and just spray me with whatever weapon I was holding. Guess whose dead, and guess whose alive and bandaging. Yeah, I'm not the one bandaging. Does it take away from the realism? Yes, but I think they need to think of another way to confirm a kill first before they take away the murder counter on the debug monitor because I am tired of being killed after I put 3 5.56 or hell even 7.62 rounds into a target only to walk up and get taken out once he wakes up by a pistol. I normally try not to curse, but that's bullshit.

I think there needs to be better bullet impacy dynamics. Like a visual indicator that it was a killshot. If it's a head shot, the head snaps back violently. If it's a chest shot, they go down clutching their chest. If it's a neck hit, there's an increased amount of blood pouring out of the neck. Give me some kind of visual indicator of death and THEN I will check the corpse, and get rid of that stupid beep noise. I know how to aim, I know how to lead, and I know when my rounds are connecting. I don't need the sound of a stop watch telling me I'm doing so. Thats my 2 cents. If they could pull those kind of dynamics out of their heat, they can take away all of the kill indicators and I'll feel a lot safer approaching a target that I'm unsure where my shot placement was when I hit him, especially range. I also feel some of the bullet energys need to be tweaked. I've landed quite a few real world kill shots only to have the target keep running off full speed. If I hit you in the knee, you should be limping. If I hit you in the stomach, you should be hunched over holding your gut, things like that but I imagine they'd need to do some more motion capture for things like that and seeing as how this is an independent project, I don't know what there funds are. I know bohemia is backing them, but to what degree I don't know, especially when they are hard at work at Arma III, but I do know one thing, they need to keep making this game the best it can be because it took a 2 year old game, made it rank 1 on steam, and I guarantee the day Arma III comes out it's going to sit at #1 just because of the anticipation of DayZ "II".

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

What I would like to see removed is not the murder count' date=' but the audible beep sound you hear when your bullet strikes an enemy target. And also the removal of the "Such and such has been killed on the chat dialog. I don't mind the murder counter the way it is...but god damn like I said get rid of that stupid beep! We're using live ammunition, not that military laser tag system(I forget the proper name of it). I'm all for walking up to confirm my kill, but I cannot tell you how many times where I should of gotten the kill(3 round burst with an M4 into the upper torso on a target), walked up to the target with pistol drawn, and before I can react, the target will usually lag and just spray me with whatever weapon I was holding. Guess whose dead, and guess whose alive and bandaging. Yeah, I'm not the one bandaging. Does it take away from the realism? Yes, but I think they need to think of another way to confirm a kill first before they take away the murder counter on the debug monitor because I am tired of being killed after I put 3 5.56 or hell even 7.62 rounds into a target only to walk up and get taken out once he wakes up by a pistol. I normally try not to curse, but that's bullshit.

I think there needs to be better bullet impacy dynamics. Like a visual indicator that it was a killshot. If it's a head shot, the head snaps back violently. If it's a chest shot, they go down clutching their chest. If it's a neck hit, there's an increased amount of blood pouring out of the neck. Give me some kind of visual indicator of death and THEN I will check the corpse, and get rid of that stupid beep noise. I know how to aim, I know how to lead, and I know when my rounds are connecting. I don't need the sound of a stop watch telling me I'm doing so. Thats my 2 cents. If they could pull those kind of dynamics out of their heat, they can take away all of the kill indicators and I'll feel a lot safer approaching a target that I'm unsure where my shot placement was when I hit him, especially range. I also feel some of the bullet energys need to be tweaked. I've landed quite a few real world kill shots only to have the target keep running off full speed. If I hit you in the knee, you should be limping. If I hit you in the stomach, you should be hunched over holding your gut, things like that but I imagine they'd need to do some more motion capture for things like that and seeing as how this is an independent project, I don't know what there funds are. I know bohemia is backing them, but to what degree I don't know, especially when they are hard at work at Arma III, but I do know one thing, they need to keep making this game the best it can be because it took a 2 year old game, made it rank 1 on steam, and I guarantee the day Arma III comes out it's going to sit at #1 just because of the anticipation of DayZ "II".

[/quote']

I wasn't aware of an audible beep. But, I dislike it already. I don't really engage in PVP myself, the only combat in DayZ I've seen has been self defense. And I've been the one passed out on the ground, bleeding to death, and then wake up with a pistol looking at my attacker.

Video games has trained people to put X number of bullets into a person, watch them drop(or get confirmation from a message) and everything is certain. Arma2 isn't like that, you have to worry about a wounded guy waking up and popping some shots off.

Just put more bullets into people when they go down. Act like it's real life, where you're not sure if they're really dead. If you can't spare the bullets, don't approach them right away.

It sucks that Arma2's netcode isn't the best. Hopefully Arma3 will be better in that regard.

[LordHussyPants 6]

Just put more bullets into people when they go down. Act like it's real life' date=' where you're not sure if they're really dead. If you can't spare the bullets, don't approach them right away.[/quote']

What Joaby's saying is that with the common occurrence of people dropping behind a wall(where you can't see them, but they can see you in 3rd person) when you shoot at them, is an unfair advantage with the disconnecting message being disabled to not have a killed message either.

If someone disconnects, you don't get notified about it, so you can wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and they'll never reappear.

If the message is removed, the disconnection one should be reinstated. You're talking realism, but real people don't just disappear into thin air after you pump bullets into them.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Just put more bullets into people when they go down. Act like it's real life' date=' where you're not sure if they're really dead. If you can't spare the bullets, don't approach them right away.[/quote']

What Joaby's saying is that with the common occurrence of people dropping behind a wall(where you can't see them, but they can see you in 3rd person) when you shoot at them, is an unfair advantage with the disconnecting message being disabled to not have a killed message either.

If someone disconnects, you don't get notified about it, so you can wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and they'll never reappear.

If the message is removed, the disconnection one should be reinstated. You're talking realism, but real people don't just disappear into thin air after you pump bullets into them.

Did you happen to read this thread you're posting in?

Perhaps the disconnect message could be put back in? I didn't know it had been removed.

And BTW I'm not talking realism, I'm talking proper tactics. You should keep firing bullets into a body once it has fallen. Just because that coincides with real life doesn't mean every little thing associated with my suggestion needs to be 100% true to real life.

If we worry about disconnecters or exploiters all the time, this mod will get nowhere. Those issues need fixing on their own, we don't need to change (or not change) every part of the game with those cheaters in mind.

[spinager 152]

Yes please! Remove the Debug Menu. I agree that players that kill for fun just want that kill count higher and higher. If no kill count is present then they have no incentive to kill for that high number. Of course some will continue but the ones that do it for the number might just stop.

[Blay Wayne 31]

Do you even play this game?

When you shoot someone in real life, you actually wound them. arma 2 doesn't go any further than a pathetic amount of blood coming out of some random body part.

This is a game

This is a game

it's _a game_

there are limits to what it can realistically depict. There is no feedback when shooting someone in arma 2. There is no wounding whatsoever. There's no proper blood. There is no actual visual indication that you killed someone. arma 2 utterly fails at realism when it comes to this. It doesn't even attempt to let you know what kind of harm your shot caused.

and, once again, because it's a game, it has to TELL us we got the kill. It is a compromise. It is a much better solution than pretending arma 2 is the pinnacle of realism. The irony of arma 2's community constantly wanting to cripple any kind of actual realism for the sake of realism is absurd

Please stop posting.

---

Yes please! Remove the Debug Menu. I agree that players that kill for fun just want that kill count higher and higher. If no kill count is present then they have no incentive to kill for that high number. Of course some will continue but the ones that do it for the number might just stop.

Nobody kills for the sake of their kill counter. What in the actual fuck am I reading. Why am I even on this forum. A bunch of cretins trying to make the game their perfect role-playing simulator, nothing more

[LordHussyPants 6]

Yes please! Remove the Debug Menu. I agree that players that kill for fun just want that kill count higher and higher. If no kill count is present then they have no incentive to kill for that high number. Of course some will continue but the ones that do it for the number might just stop.

Please go play the Sims or Minecraft or some other game where PvP isn't an integral part of the game.

[WhiteTigerShiro 25]

I would like to see the confirmation removed as well. Less because it'd be any kind of nerf to PvP, and more because of the advantage it gives when you can see your kills go up. The other day a friend and I were crawling along a building when I go down unconscious and he gets killed. If there was no kill confirmation of his Murders ticking up, he probably would never have noticed that I survived, and I might have been able to fight back, or at least try and flee the area that he was camping. Instead, he knew that he needed to put a few more bullets in me despite that I was immobile because he can specifically track how many kills he's gotten.

[earion 3]

Yes please! Remove the Debug Menu. I agree that players that kill for fun just want that kill count higher and higher. If no kill count is present then they have no incentive to kill for that high number. Of course some will continue but the ones that do it for the number might just stop.

Please go play the Sims or Minecraft or some other game where PvP isn't an integral part of the game.

Then please go play some other PvP game where such a kill counter and such kill confirmations belong.

Don't get me wrong, I murdered quite a "few" people and can be considered as a "bandit". I'm just bored - bored of being asked "Did you score a murder ?" all the times by my clanmates after a firefight. This is just the most childish, silly way to confirm a kill in a game that is supposed to be about fear and paranoia. This is just too comfy. We are just "gaming the game" now.

I bet kill confirmation are regular server side settings for ArmA2 ; at least there is a parameter who looks like it, and it is disabled in higher difficulty settings.

deathMessages = 0;

That doesn't solve the problem of the debug monitor, which definitely has to go at some point.

I believe the disconnect message is now gone in the "system channel" that seems to be disabled in most, if not all, servers running latest ArmA 2 beta ? That is IMO a mistake, as long as we can't prevent people from disconnecting to avoid death / server hop to backstab, we need to know if the guy we are fighting with *may* have disconnected or not. Of course, since on "real" servers, name tags are disabled, we just can't know for sure.

Thus :

- remove confirmations messages on all servers (it is going to take some admin discipline...).

- remove the debug monitor (or at least remove the murder count)

- bring back the disconnection messages until a viable solution is found.

I don't think all this is going to diminish the numbers of PvPers like me, but I do think that it's going to make things interesting for us. And investigating a possible victim will take more time, so may lead to less killings overall.

[SixPackAbs 13]

Agreed, you should have to wait and watch to make sure the guy is dead, not just look at your magic kill counter. also it is pretty easy to tell where you hit someone as a gush of blood spurts out of where you hit them.

[Shorttallguy 3]

I agree with the original post. I like how people don't die right away and it's hard to tell if someone is dead sometimes, like real life. This idea would just make more awesome moments where people walk up to a body just to find that the person isn't dead. great moments make great games. more great moments make a greater game.

[kwhy (DayZ) 6]

didn't see this thread till after I posted the same idea.

don't bump this..

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=25572&pid=226152#pid226152

I'd say remove it now.

my summary...

..I don't really see its purpose since the boards don't reflect a lot of questioning how Arma 2's game engine deals bullet damage...

...I'm sure someone will say it is needed for DC, but that is a whole other problem that will eventually probably be delt with by a despawn timer...

...at least make it an option?

I've seen enough videos online now that show this is being used as crutch....

...confirm the kills yourself by either moving to the body or seeing blood pouring from the poor sobs head.

I'm sure you guys striving for kill counts will be able to go online at some time and see these stats. WW2online (Battleground Europe) does this and works brilliantly for that game and if you think this game is brutal try playing that sometime especially before they had any mobile spawn points.

if anything I think it should be turned off in Expert or at least made an option for servers to choose.

[Zakificus 10]

I second this. I would love to see all the confirmation messages removed. As well as counters for the number of kills.

This also adds the "playing possum" dynamic to the game. You get shot (at) then duck and lay low. Guy approaches to loot, bang, 'oops sorry you were such a bad shot.'