The Official Unofficial Bandit Removal Petition

[Kashima 0]

The idea of bandit skin is a great addition to the game. i mean the game, as a survial simulator with tense social aspects, instead of a deathmatch shooter without consequences.

but bandit skin needs to refined. you should get it after 4-5 murders, and not already after only one. additionally it should be easier to get humanity points back. so it's actually possible to achieve some kind of balance.

[Jamesbiff 4]

Can one of the admins make a sticky about how the humanity system works and force people to read it?

The bandit skin is absolutely no indicator at all of a player's intentions. Im not explaining it again as to why, because so many other people have done as well as i have.

Before i became a bandit ALL my deaths were at the hands of other SURVIVORS, the bandit system doesnt work and it never will. Sooner or later youre going to have to defend yourself, and one day youre gonna be a good enough shot to be quicker and deadlier than the other guy and the karma system will bite you in the ass instead of the other guy.

[Nitrous (DayZ) 0]

Bandit skin is too gamey. If I went outside and killed some stranger for his beans I don't instantly change appearance.

No shit!

Last time I checked, serial killers tried their best to blend into society (Even if they were bad at it). they didnt walk around with pink sombreros on with a "Serial Killer" sign on the front.

Faggots like ytman above go around calling Bandits fags and pussies when the reality is that PvP is too scary for the little prick. He makes out that hes John Wayne on fucking steroids when the reality is that he probably dies at least once a day due to sheer stupidity.

All my best gear is my own. Taken from loot drops I have found in various hard to get to places, and I work in a team of 3. We dont camp spawns or set up deliberate ambushes. We just move about, from place to place and if occasionally we come across someone whos maybe carrying some ammo or supplies we need, we take them... We take what we need and leave the rest there in case the poor soul wants to come and reclaim his stuff.

If were full on supplies and you walk past 200m away, then its your lucky day. I will quite happily preserve my ammo and avoid giving my position away without cause. We dont just kill everything that moves, just when its required.

I'm at 6 days without death now iirc and thats down to being careful, avoiding unnecessary attention and being very good at what we do.

[Canine 0]

I think that the humanity system is flawed, but that we should keep skins just add more skins. Have a default skin for newbies a skin for people in the morally gray area etc. I agree that letting everyone know that someone is a bandit is not the best way to handle things, but I do like that it goes along way in creating factions among the survivors. Another option that I think might work is that instead of a skin use some kind of rep system that updates based on proximity to other players. Say you take out a group of people and leave no survivors your rep would stay where it is, but if one of the group survives and gets away then your rep changes based on supposed word of mouth to the other survivors. Just some ideas

[Wüstenfuchs (DayZ) 105]

Those bandits who imagine that removing bandit skin would allow them to walk in with other survivors, and pretend to be one of them, are just wrong. The consequence of removing the ability to recognize bandits would only result in survivors considering EVERYONE as bandits and shooting other survivors on sight. Bandits would still get shot on sight as they are now.

Thus, only difference would be the end of survivor co-operation as no one would trust each other after getting backstabbed a few times by an undercover bandit. The only result would be decrease in player numbers as most of the simulation minded players would simply not enjoy playing the game anymore as it would had turned into a deatmatch where everyone kills everyone else.

If the skin change is removed, there needs to be some other way to punish playerkillers and a way to recognize them.

[ramulan45 0]

The majority of the people that are posting to have the bandit system removed are the ones that are bandits... should have been a good person to begin with. Shouldn't have fucked your game away.

---

We dont just kill everything that moves' date=' just when its required.

[/quote']

You just said yourself that you kill when you WANT their stuff not NEED it. I usually live a few days myself and I have never killed another person that didn't ask for it. I am at over 8k humanity so don't give me that shit.

[The Killing Joke 43]

If the skin change is removed' date=' there needs to be some other way to punish playerkillers and a way to recognize them.

[/quote']

I agree. While we're at it, let's put new players into a new skin - you know, to protect them - and players who can't shoot into different skins as well. (See where I'm going with this?) It's only fair, after all. You're calling for a segregation of one part of the player base. So, to make it fair, everybody gets tagged, one way or the other.

TKJ

[Wüstenfuchs (DayZ) 105]

While we're at it' date=' let's put new players into a new skin - you know, to protect them - and players who can't shoot into different skins as well. (See where I'm going with this?) It's only fair, after all. You're calling for a segregation of one part of the player base. So, to make it fair, everybody gets tagged, one way or the other.[/quote']

That makes no sense. New players don't represent a hostile threat to other survivors, nor do the ones that can't shoot. However, bandits have killed survivors before and are likely to do so again. Thus, there is a good logical reason for bandits to have skin that allows others to recognize them.

[Rec0n412 9]

The problem with a free form, no constraints setup is that there are no means to encourage player cooperation beyond artificial constraints. Life, is meaningless in a video game. If you die, you are merely inconvenienced by a respawn.

Gear is not hard to get in this game, zombies are not hard to avoid. Until more content gets added to the game, that requires some degree pf player cooperation, then there is never going to be a reason to cooperate with another survivor.

Again, this being a video game, the only way to get people to cooperate on any sustainable level is either with content that requires cooperation, or with artificial constraints.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

Faggots like ytman above go around calling Bandits fags and pussies when the reality is that PvP is too scary for the little prick. He makes out that hes John Wayne on fucking steroids when the reality is that he probably dies at least once a day due to sheer stupidity.

Loool.

I did die to tent once... so I guess you must be right man.

[Jamesbiff 4]

Those bandits who imagine that removing bandit skin would allow them to walk in with other survivors' date=' and pretend to be one of them, are just wrong. The consequence of removing the ability to recognize bandits would only result in survivors considering EVERYONE as bandits and shooting other survivors on sight. Bandits would still get shot on sight as they are now.

Thus, only difference would be the end of survivor co-operation as no one would trust each other after getting backstabbed a few times by an undercover bandit. The only result would be decrease in player numbers as most of the simulation minded players would simply not enjoy playing the game anymore as it would had turned into a deatmatch where everyone kills everyone else.

If the skin change is removed, there needs to be some other way to punish playerkillers and a way to recognize them.

[/quote']

Why punish? PvP is part of the game, how did we get into this mindset that player killers are some how abusing the rules and therefore must be punished accordingly?

Way i see it; you can EASILY avoid being killed, dont stay in the southern cities and always travel in a forest, never on a road etc etc If youre getting killed often enough to bitch about it on here you need more practice.

In my experience, people NOT in bandit skins are far more likely to kill you, only been killed by a bandit once.

(read my posts on how the karma system works, you clearly have no idea how it works, it is incredibly flawed and rarely indicates another player's intentions).

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

This whole us and them mentality is incredibly wearing. Very rarely am I ever killed by a pure blood bandit. The majority of the time I take fire from some baseball cap wearing uncle nasty who's eyeing up my rifle with a combination of lust and disdain.

People are too used to having to have the game god balance the crap out of everything to give the weak a chance.

Get rid of bandit skins and have a more neutral looking green camo skin for all survivors. Judge a man by the actions and words attached to his name, instead of his desert camo.

That said, getting direct chat fixed would be a godsend. Rocket needs to make it compulsory to update to the Beta across all servers. The inability to change your name would also be helpful, as reputations would stick and personalities would be solidified.

[Jamesbiff 4]

This whole us and them mentality is incredibly wearing. Very rarely am I ever killed by a pure blood bandit. The majority of the time I take fire from some baseball cap wearing uncle nasty who's eyeing up my rifle with a combination of lust and disdain.

People are too used to having to have the game god balance the crap out of everything to give the weak a chance.

Get rid of bandit skins and have a more neutral looking green camo skin for all survivors. Judge a man by the actions and words attached to his name' date=' instead of his desert camo.

That said, getting direct chat fixed would be a godsend. Rocket needs to make it compulsory to update to the Beta across all servers. The inability to change your name would also be helpful, as reputations would stick and personalities would be solidified.

[/quote']

There was an official arma 2 update that apparently fixed it, ive been hearing more people on the chat lately.

Agree with you though, im a bandit, but id like to help new players, i cant get close to them though to give them stuff because peoples perception of bandits, thanks to the broken system, means they more often than not shoot on sight. Ive been helped by more bandits than survivors and some of the nicest people ive met have been bandits. Point is, people who are bandits more than likely are people who have been ALIVE longer because they havent been pussies about firing first.

thats how you survive past the 4 hour average. you either live in the forest or learn to fire first. Being punished for that is utterly bizarre.

[Wüstenfuchs (DayZ) 105]

If the skin change is removed' date=' there needs to be some other way to punish playerkillers and a way to recognize them.

[/quote']Why punish? PvP is part of the game, how did we get into this mindset that player killers are some how abusing the rules and therefore must be punished accordingly?

What I mean by punishment is a consequence for killing other players. When there is a consequence, people will think twice before killing another player (except those who have chosen the bandit-route). I'm not saying that PvP is bad, if that is how you understood me. PvP is a very nice part of the game, but don't forget that the main idea of the game is to be a zombie survival game.

In a world where majority of population has turned into zombies, and you are one of the few survivors alive, it makes sense to try to co-operate with fellow survivors and try to face this threat (zombies) together. Co-operating with fellow survivors requires you to meet strangers and putting some trust in them. I find this to be a very important aspect of a zombie survival game.

Having a some of the survivors being bandits is a nice and realistic twist. However, if there is no punishment (=consequence) for turning bandit and killing others, more and more people will do that for smallest reasons. Moreover, if there is no way to recognize those who have turned bandits, it will soon start to become best tactic to just kill every stranger on sight. This will effectively kill the whole aspect of survivor co-operation with strangers.

It makes no sense to try to co-operate or communicate with strangers anymore, if a likely result of that is getting killed. Not many will want to play a "good guy" when doing so puts you in a huge disadvantage over the other players. Playing a good guy would have a severe consequence: dying all the time. Playing as a bandit and killing / backstabbing would only have benefits without any consequences. That kind of imbalance will eventually drive every "good guy" away from the game, leaving bandits fighting each other in an endless deathmatch.

Way i see it; you can EASILY avoid being killed' date=' dont stay in the southern cities and always travel in a forest, never on a road etc etc If youre getting killed often enough to bitch about it on here you need more practice.[/quote']

What are you talking about? I didn't whine about getting killed, nor do I have problem of getting killed often. I've been killed by players only once in the whole time I've played the game. The current system is good and balanced, and I see no problem with it. The problem I have is the change that the OP suggest, e.g. removing the bandit skin. That would create imbalance and all the things I mentioned above and in my previous posts.

[Powermolch 3]

Bandit/Survivor Skin System is Black/White. But 90% of the Players are grey. Light grey, dark grey, pure grey, a little more grey or less.

Killing another player is a Decision based on several reasons. And many of them can be valid in a Zombie Apocalypse Sim. The current System is pushing the players into several corners where they often dont belong to.

Interaction, Trust & Betrayal is a great part of the game as shown in the Video on the first page now. But as long as every "Bandit" wears a Neon-Sign, ther will not be much interaction. If you are Bandit-skinned, better you shoot all and everybody cause they will not even try to talk.

Player Interaction is somehow different. Survivors fighting side by side with bandits when it comes to a massive Zombie Attack, but will act different in a safe spot with the last can of beans around.

And it seems some players often want the Bandit System only to also kill people without the "Punishment" while declaring Playerkillers have to be punished.

[Wüstenfuchs (DayZ) 105]

Killing another player is a Decision based on several reasons. And many of them can be valid in a Zombie Apocalypse Sim. The current System is pushing the players into several corners where they often dont belong to.

There are many ways to avoid killing other players. People should meet weapons lowered to show they are not threat. If you see someone pointing weapon at you' date=' you can take cover and ask them to lower weapon. You can run and hide, etc. I understand it can be hard to recover if you become bandit after killing someone for self defense. Perhaps for this there should be some kind of way to reset the status (though not on every respawn). Perhaps player could be given a limited number of (such as 3) resets. If player ends up being bandit for more times than that, then he obviously is just abusing the ability to reset and should not be given more chances.

Interaction, Trust & Betrayal is a great part of the game as shown in the Video on the first page now.

Like I mentioned in above messages, without some consequence of killing players, and method of recognizing the playerkillers, there won't be any of that. There won't be any interaction or trust. Not even betrayal, since you need to have interaction and trust before betrayal can happen.

[Powermolch 3]

You dont understand. Bandit Skin is no Punishment at all. It is no Consequence at all. It only forces your future Actions and that is what I think is bad.

I dont have a problem beeing a Bandit.-skinned Survivor Im playing with Friends I can trust, don't care about skins. And yes, I'll kill Bandits and Survivors when I think I need something from them or they are a threat to me. Sometimes not. Depends on situation. Sometimes we talk. Sometimes we trade. Sometimes I help. Sometimes I kill.

[SpaceMidget75 1]

I have to strongly agree with the people saying that we shouldn't have a bandit skin. I've just recently bought Arma 2 to play this mod based on all the press it's been receiving and the thing that really appealed to me was the sim aspect of it. Being labeled as a bad guy breaks that.

Unfortunately, none of the reviews mentioned this bandit system. Almost all post-apoc movies and books have this aspect of having to figure out for yourself if people are friendly or not. Obviously if they attack on sight they're not and you should make sure you're in a position to fight back or hide (or have some friends with you which I'll discuss in a bit).

If they don't attack on sight, you'll need to use other aspects to decide if you trust that person or not. These two types of "bad guy" are in everything from The Road & Book of Eli, to Mad Max, Walking Dead and almost everything by Romero.

There are a few things the game can do to help people decide and they've all been mentioned. The main one being getting local chat working so you can converse. But custom skins would be a nice touch too.

As for the argument that people will never be friendly... As mentioned above, the game should be layed out in a way that helps this to happen. Basically, "safety in numbers" should be necessary in certain situations. Entering areas with lots of Zombies and approaching new potential recruits are obvious examples. Allow this to happen via clever, open design (like Eve) rather than through fixed game rules.

If the game persists in keeping a player killing tag (and I really hope it doesn't) then at the very least it must reset the bandit tag on death.

EDIT: Joining with friends also appears to happen quite a bit and proves that the game wont turn into a Deathmatch.

[Kolchak (DayZ) 5]

Very rarely am I ever killed by a pure blood bandit. The majority of the time I take fire from some baseball cap wearing uncle nasty who's eyeing up my rifle with a combination of lust and disdain.

I severely doubt this. In order to take the time to notice what weapon you're carrying he'd have to be rather close for a significant amount of time. More likely you've been shot at by someone who was just killed by another survivor/bandit and now doesn't trust anyone. Unless they feigned cooperation and stuck by you a while' date=' giving them ample opportunity to place the barrel of their Makarov right against your skull, they're more likely firing at anything that moves in front of them, just hoping you have a good weapon and some ammo.

People are too used to having to have the game god balance the crap out of everything to give the weak a chance.

Get rid of bandit skins and have a more neutral looking green camo skin for all survivors. Judge a man by the actions and words attached to his name, instead of his desert camo.

That said, getting direct chat fixed would be a godsend. Rocket needs to make it compulsory to update to the Beta across all servers. The inability to change your name would also be helpful, as reputations would stick and personalities would be solidified.

You really want reputations to be what people go on? If they removed the bandit system and enforced a single name, all it would take is me and a friend or two a couple of evenings of making up false stories on the forums and servers about how you betrayed all of us. Reputation is one of the easiest thing to muddy if you're willing to lie, even easier if all your friends are willing to lie for you, and all it takes is a seed of doubt to make you untrustworthy in everyone else's eyes.

This whole us and them mentality is incredibly wearing.

That's just it, the only way it's not an 'us and them' situation is if everyone does the same thing, and we don't. I have never shot at a single survivor, only fired at one bandit after he killed my friend. I typically duck and go to cover when I hear gunshots coming at me, not try to return fire, and so far I've never died to a bandit. I don't stick around other survivors, even when I die I only check the nearest buildings for food water ammo and bandages, then I book it inland as fast as possible. Lasted almost 8 hours my first run, and that's with traveling all over the map to try and reach a friend who just wouldn't follow my plan and kept getting killed by bandits along the coast.

The humanity system cannot show how cooperative you might be to certain people, it can't convey that you seek competition so you only shoot other players with good weapons and items, it can't iterate any of that stuff, because it's impossible for any system to convey intention. It can only convey the actions you've done in the past. As long as shooting/killing survivors is the only way you become a bandit, being a bandit will show you have already shot/killed survivors. The current system is simple, elegant, and takes much more than just lying to abuse.

[ParaB 114]

The problem is that without bandit skins or a similar system there's basically no consequence for player killing. In a good game there should be consequences for your actions though, otherwise it quickly becomes a shallow experience.

[Manlytears 0]

Bandit needs to be removed period.

[Machinations 1]

Spoken like a true carebear. Kudos. You've totally changed my mind with your awesomeness.

/facepalm

TKJ

One thing is true - you are a joke, at least your reasoning ability is. This is a game with no character statistics, so all you can do is kill people and take their stuff. Big whoop. In EQ I could kill you take your stuff and keep you from playing the game for hours or days at a time.

I find it hilarious that all the bandits essentially want hand-holding - no skin - and are the ones responsible for 99% of the vitriol and insulting language. If you think that helps you make your point, have at it.

Honestly though it just makes you look like spoiled children, whaaaaa whaaaa I don't get my way I have a skin oh poor meeeeee

[GedenWhitey 0]

If there are no bandit skins anymore I would personally trust no one but my RL-friends. Why? because there is no way to recognize players from each other and everybody can change name at will if they get a bad rep. So every random encounter is a knew one, even if you recognize the name someone else could have taken it and you can't tell that he normally murder people.

And seeing as this is only a game with no consequences for murder, well... I think a lot of people will begin to shoot people in the back - you can always change name after all, no consequence.

Since this is only a game many people doesn't adhere to there normal morality - and that makes killing way to easy when there isn't any consequences of it.

So in short - bandit skins may be flawed (not may but is ;)) but is the best system currently to encourage trust and thereby opening up for co-op between random people.

- Whitey

[Patrickollo 3]

Maybe if you bandits don't want to stay bandits forever, you shouldn't go on a killing spree and get -50,000 humanity and complain later, "wah I wanna be the good guy now". You only need to kill 1 or 2 survivors to become a bandit and another 1 or 2 kills won't take long to recover from.

People are going to tell me, "But I have to defend myself!" Well, yes, you do. But ask yourself how often are you in hot spot cities? Do you constantly go in Cherno or Elektro and come out with 3 or 4 new self defense kills? Well I can offer a solution to that problem: DON'T GO THERE. There's more places to get loot other than Cherno/Elektro/Airfields.

If you remove the bandit system, it's only going to add to the paranoia and there will be NO consequence to just outright killing someone unless you're on a server with name plates enabled, and even then you can just create a new profile and no one will be the wiser. Paranoia sounds good at first, but think about it... you can't visually identify if someone may backstab you (arguably yes, there would be people like this in real life), but there are no CUES at all to tell if someone has malevolent intentions, such as tells like eye twitching or something, you know what I mean? If you kill another survivor, they're going to shout out, "DON'T TRUST THE SURVIVOR IN (city or whatever else) HE SHOT ME IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD!" What will happen next? You guessed it, survivors will just start shooting each other on sight.

I, for one, would just shoot everyone on sight if bandit skins were removed. At the moment, there is a higher probability that if you see a survivor, they will be friendly.

You can still accomplish your goal of gaining the trust of someone only to backstab them later. Here's how:

Step 1: Find Survivor and form a bond.

Step 2: Kill Survivor whenever you see fit.

Step 3: Wait for humanity to increase to the point where another kill won't transform you into a bandit.

Step 4: Repeat step 1.

In before, "I shouldn't have to wait for humanity!" I think waiting for your humanity is a good compromise for this play style.

[The Killing Joke 43]

One thing is true - you are a joke' date=' at least your reasoning ability is. This is a game with no character statistics, so all you can do is kill people and take their stuff. Big whoop. In EQ I could kill you take your stuff and keep you from playing the game for hours or days at a time.[/quote']

Blah blah blah. Threats on the internet. Blah blah blah. I'm 40 years old, son. I've heard your arguments before. It doesn't impress me.

You could 'keep me from playing' for hours or days at a time? I think not. Why? Because I don't play a game to your rules. I've met your kind before in EvE. I had children just like you declare war on our Corp and claim, "Ohhhh, I'm gonna keep you and your corp camped up for DAYS!!! You won't EVER get to play."

You know what I did. I game them what they wanted. I told my entire corp/alliance to log in, and sit in their stations until the opposition arrived. (They always did, spouting their "you're in trouble now! We're waiting for you.)

And they did. Wait, that is. Because I had informed my corp to log in in the morning, and then GO TO WORK. Leave your PC's on, guys. Let them rotate their camp, thinking we're sitting inside, too afraid to move. We had people who'd play through the day, and would surprise them by popping in and out of the base, mobilizing them, and generally taunting them.

What happened? Yeah, they sat outside, having to wait and watch us for HOURS. It was hilarious. I'd log in remotely from work, say a few words in chat, and log out. They were steamed.

So yeah, you don't need to wave your little e-peen at me. Believe me, I've seen bigger.

I find it hilarious that all the bandits essentially want hand-holding - no skin - and are the ones responsible for 99% of the vitriol and insulting language. If you think that helps you make your point' date=' have at it.[/quote']

Funny you say that. Hand-holding. You want to be able to identify who's who on the game just by looking at them? Seriously. Seriously? And we want hand-holding?

Honestly though it just makes you look like spoiled children' date=' whaaaaa whaaaa I don't get my way I have a skin oh poor meeeeee

[/quote']

You play the game on cruise control, and you're calling us children? Puh-lease.

TKJ

---

If there are no bandit skins anymore I would personally trust no one but my RL-friends. Why? because there is no way to recognize players from each other and everybody can change name at will if they get a bad rep. So every random encounter is a knew one' date=' even if you recognize the name someone else could have taken it and you can't tell that he normally murder people.[/quote']

You're right, but that is what makes the game good. Think about what would actually happen. You couldn't trust anybody! It's immersion, at it's finest moment.

I don't fault those who are concerned - believe me. (If you read many of my responses, I don't outwardly attack anybody unless they act like a dick.) It's very exciting to have a game like this, where you have the opportunity for a 'no rules' environment. And you shouldn't be as concerned as you are that you'll lose your stuff. Rocket made it that way for a reason. If you survive for more than a few hours, you should be commended! You survived the harshest reality possible!

I'm not saying there aren't dicks in the game - I HATE the spawn campers, and the ones that mobilize a huge group to go after onesy-twosy players. I wouldn't go out of my way to shoot someone wearing a coyote pack if I saw one, and I'm not killing someone over their beans.

It's survival, and it's meant to be harsh! (BTW, I really actually suck in-game as it is - got capped by a bandit last night... ...and then LAUGHED, because the thing I saw as the sand ran through the hourglass was him ransacking my body... ...and then a zombie snuck up on him from behind!!! It was hilarious.

Maybe if you bandits don't want to stay bandits forever' date=' you shouldn't go on a killing spree and get -50,000 humanity and complain later, "wah I wanna be the good guy now". You only need to kill 1 or 2 survivors to become a bandit and another 1 or 2 kills won't take long to recover from.[/quote']

There's no 'wah'. Not from me, anyway. I am stating that it's an unfair game mechanic, because people aren't allowed to choose to be this way. (And no, it's not a choice to say "well, you killed a bunch of people.") What it boils down to is "if you kill a couple of people, for whatever reason, we're going to put a big sign on your back that says 'shoot me'."

People are going to tell me' date=' "But I have to defend myself!" Well, yes, you do. But ask yourself how often are you in hot spot cities? Do you constantly go in Cherno or Elektro and come out with 3 or 4 new self defense kills? Well I can offer a solution to that problem: DON'T GO THERE. There's more places to get loot other than Cherno/Elektro/Airfields.[/quote']

That's not a viable option for most. You can't tell people that cities aren't part of their game. It would seem that people want to do everything and anything in the game, and they shouldn't be hindered for at least trying.

If you remove the bandit system' date=' it's only going to add to the paranoia and there will be NO consequence to just outright killing someone unless you're on a server with name plates enabled, and even then you can just create a new profile and no one will be the wiser.[/quote']

I' date=' for one, would just shoot everyone on sight if bandit skins were removed. At the moment, there is a higher probability that if you see a survivor, they will be friendly.[/quote']

Then, you are part of the problem. (Hear me out.)

It's that logic that makes the survivors so much more dangerous than the bandits. Think about it. If, without it, you're going to shoot everybody you see, you're obviously going to go around shooting every bandit you see now, right? After a few enounters, POP! You're a bandit yourself. There are going to be more that do the same, and POP! More bandits! More and more, people are going to keep propagating it until it's bandits shooting bandits shooting bandits.

You have just made the perfect case for why the bandit system DOES NOT WORK.

TKJ