Standalone Discussion/Critique from an Old DayZ Fan.

[Frothyboot18 46]

The zombies in experimental are a bit tougher, one hit and your bleeding, plus with the new melee stance, it makes killing zombies with an axe a bit harder... Now, the other day, last week to be exact, i shot a zombie in the head with the .22 rifle, it went down, i turn around and bandage... I look back and see it got up and went after me again.... Now this is a good way to toughen up the Zs... Keep their current speed, but make it so that a players "inventory weight" affect his running speed, the more shit you have, the slower you are, then a headshot should be the only thing that kills a Z, 2-3 body shots puts it down, but will rise again after a pre determined time, u dont really need tons of zombies, what u need is a good respawn system that makes em look like theyre infinite...have some pre determined num on a location then the moment one sees a person, depending on how that person is seen will determine how many goes after him, loke gun shots in cities spawn 10 or so coming from different directions... It will make sneaking around part of the gameplay again.

And as for the night.... I agree nvg and thermals shouldnt be put in, if youre a fresh spawn playing a night server, well thats just asking to get shot... Make brightness and gamma adjustable only at the main menu screen, before entering a server... But make the nights playable... Its just too dark.... I understand that sometimes it is that dark... But only when theres a storm....Then make a good system for logging in and logging out.... Lets say 300 secs to login and 300 secs to log out... Both times your character just sits there, killable.... I bet this will lessen ghosting and server hopping... Right now, when someone logs out, he can log put instantly and then gets the 300 secs when logging back in... He should also get a 300 sec logging out where his toon just sits there, you can make an animation like the toon is sleeping for falling asleep....

Oh yeah, and bring back global chat, make it so that you can toggle it on and off.... I kinda liked having global chat....

Edited March 17, 2014 by Frothyboot18

[DayZ_Friendly 145]

I don't understand why you guys want to shut out new players from being able to learn and get good at the game now.

 

They will make it harder to survive later, but if you don't build a good user base, one that has been nurtured to be able to withstand the zombie apocalypse that you want...then this game will die where it is.

 

I'm assuming they released an alpha just to see if it's even worth making this game.

 

Now, they've made some money and hired on developers.  A mod is small time.  Standalone has to "stand alone" as a game.  They need players, new players, players that will tell their friends to play.  "Casual" players.

 

Some people also need to get off the fact that the mod was built from a military simulator.  So there were probably a lot of things in the mod that should never be in the standalone.  I for one don't think we need helicopters or high powered sniper rifles with 12x scope with heat and motion detection.

 

Also, I don't agree with the "live long enough to become a bandit" excuse.  It's a lot harder being a hero.

[Katana67 2907]

Oh yeah, and bring back global chat, make it so that you can toggle it on and off.... I kinda liked having global chat....

 

No thank you. It ruined the game. Everybody felt entitled to rides. It was abused to no end. And it caused people to not care about their lives if one could just arrange for a pick-up at the drop of a hat (not that this wasn't already possible with TS, but hardly something that can be countered).

 

Side-chat was the worst thing in the mod for me. I hated it. Making it toggleable isn't a good solution either, as EVERYONE kept it on and people migrated to servers with side-chat. One of those things that was just dumb, no matter how many people loved it.

[Katana67 2907]

I don't understand why you guys want to shut out new players from being able to learn and get good at the game now.

 

They will make it harder to survive later, but if you don't build a good user base, one that has been nurtured to be able to withstand the zombie apocalypse that you want...then this game will die where it is.

 

I'm assuming they released an alpha just to see if it's even worth making this game.

 

Now, they've made some money and hired on developers.  A mod is small time.  Standalone has to "stand alone" as a game.  They need players, new players, players that will tell their friends to play.  "Casual" players.

 

Some people also need to get off the fact that the mod was built from a military simulator.  So there were probably a lot of things in the mod that should never be in the standalone.  I for one don't think we need helicopters or high powered sniper rifles with 12x scope with heat and motion detection.

 

Also, I don't agree with the "live long enough to become a bandit" excuse.  It's a lot harder being a hero.

 

For one, the community and "userbase" is already there. No need to worry about that. They've sold a ton, they're not clamoring for more players. There are a ton of players.

 

DayZ has NEVER, EVER, been about catering to casual players. Dean himself has stated as much. It isn't within the auspices of the game to cater to casuals or new players. It's part of what makes DayZ unique.

 

No, I will not "get off" the fact that this was built on a military simulator. ARMA is great, and the realistic/authentic feel of ARMA is at the core of DayZ. Not to mention the VERY EXISTENCE of DayZ is owed to ARMA. Nobody's saying we need heat/motion detection, we never had the latter. There will be military stuff in DayZ.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Katana67

[TOPMO3 119]

Your "critique" is welcome when the game is released, cya in a year or 2.

 

Not sure if troll or... :)

 

I think the sort of feedback I'm offering is most crucial at this stage in the development of DayZ. It's not going to be any easier to implement later, even in 2 years. I'm talking about the core mechanic of how this game is going to play and feel.

 

 

The animation sync needs to be better, coupled with zombie hits feeling more visceral. I think, eventually, they need to implement knockdowns again (if they haven't already, I don't experience them in SA, but remember them being a thing in earlier videos) but they need to have the zombie actually latch onto the player to some degree.

 

While most of this stuff is sync issues, and pretty cosmetic, I do think it would improve the quality of play. I however, am more concerned about the core game design.

 

No one has yet to explain to me why zombies are acting they way they do now, instead of how they acted in the mod 2 years ago. Why was their behavior changed at all? When, and why was the decision made to have less zombies, who are now a non-threat. Before zombies can be seen chasing players through the streets, or eating a corpse. Now I don't see any, and if I do, I can walk right up to one, and one-shot them with an axe. I haven't been actively chased by more than 3 zombies, even if I try to attract more, the existing ones can't keep up with the pathing.

 

Oh, and i definately agree on the necessity of making survival a hard, and central point of the game. I witnessed first hand how one transforms from a survivor to a "bandit" through sheer boredom, which is okay in the current state since it is an alpha, but should definately change in the future.

I started my character with the goal of survival and trying to be friendly, but ended up shooting a bambi for sports , since i was fully geared and had nothing to do.

 

This is exactly my problem right now. If I wanted to play DayZ as a Bandit, you could leave the game pretty much as is, maybe make the zombies harder.

 

But if I wanted to play the game as say... a zombie killer, I would call this game broken. There are not enough zombies, and they pose no threat.

 

If I wanted to play this game as a naturalist/woodsman, there is again no challenge in doing this. When hunting comes, this could be different.

 

If I wanted to play this game as a hero/protector of noobs, this is broken still because there is nothing to protect them from. A noob can head to any small town, load up, and just head north without any danger from zombies/animals.

 

Now this is a good way to toughen up the Zs... Keep their current speed, but make it so that a players "inventory weight" affect his running speed, the more shit you have, the slower you are, then a headshot should be the only thing that kills a Z, 2-3 body shots puts it down, but will rise again after a pre determined time

 

Its just too dark.... I understand that sometimes it is that dark... But only when theres a storm...

 

Great idea about toughening up zombies, I would agree with all of that!

 

About the night, I don't know... "Just too dark" for what exactly? If the full moon is out, it should illuminate normally, if there are clouds, it should get pretty dark. I don't understand why people are so afraid of the dark :)

[TOPMO3 119]

I don't understand why you guys want to shut out new players from being able to learn and get good at the game now.

 

They will make it harder to survive later, but if you don't build a good user base, one that has been nurtured to be able to withstand the zombie apocalypse that you want...then this game will die where it is.

 

I'm assuming they released an alpha just to see if it's even worth making this game.

 

Now, they've made some money and hired on developers.  A mod is small time.  Standalone has to "stand alone" as a game.  They need players, new players, players that will tell their friends to play.  "Casual" players.

 

Some people also need to get off the fact that the mod was built from a military simulator.  So there were probably a lot of things in the mod that should never be in the standalone.  I for one don't think we need helicopters or high powered sniper rifles with 12x scope with heat and motion detection.

 

Also, I don't agree with the "live long enough to become a bandit" excuse.  It's a lot harder being a hero.

 

Not sure what you mean here. The mod had something like 1.5 million active players, and that was 1.5 years ago when I stopped playing. You have to remember that while the DayZ mod is free, meaning, anyone can download it, Arma II wasn't, and PLENTY of people paid for an Arma II license (myself included) JUST to play the free mod. It was brilliant.

 

I hate to be harsh, but as of right now, the mod (which was also in alpha, and had less resources) was in better shape 2 years ago, than the stand alone is. Now this will change, and I hope quickly, but it worries me that the Dev blogs talk about new lighting, physics, and hunting, when at it's core, there is nothing to do in the game besides gather items, and have fire fights with players.

 

The game right now isn't hard, it's not hard at all, and that's why it's boring. If there is no risk, there is no reward. If you don't have GREAT risk, you will have no GREAT reward. You will have just another "meh" zombie shooter, instead of something truly amazing. 

 

Dark Souls is a great example. You think it's a great RPG? Some innovating dungeon crawler? It's all been done before. What's great about that game is how brutally difficult it is, and it attracts people who enjoy that.

 

DayZ isn't out to attract free-weekend warriors, it's out to attract the real deal gamer. One who is willing to put in the time and patience to learn a truly unique game.

[So Sexy 259]

OP didnt even care to look up that most of his suggestions are already confirmed.

[Katana67 2907]

While most of this stuff is sync issues, and pretty cosmetic, I do think it would improve the quality of play. I however, am more concerned about the core game design.

 

No one has yet to explain to me why zombies are acting they way they do now, instead of how they acted in the mod 2 years ago. Why was their behavior changed at all? When, and why was the decision made to have less zombies, who are now a non-threat. Before zombies can be seen chasing players through the streets, or eating a corpse. Now I don't see any, and if I do, I can walk right up to one, and one-shot them with an axe. I haven't been actively chased by more than 3 zombies, even if I try to attract more, the existing ones can't keep up with the pathing.

 

The "less zombies" deal is being worked on, they intend on having thousands of zombies spawned at one time. Sorting out how they spawn is what's holding them up I believe. It's very WIP, check out the roadmap (wherever it is). Zombies are nowhere near "working as intended".

 

The pathing is pretty much why they're acting as such (i.e. clipping through buildings, etc.) They weren't much better in the mod in my opinion, so the discrepancy isn't that huge. Although, the lack of zombies is noticeable. I'm really glad they got away from the client-spawned paradigm of the mod, I hated going into towns because people could tell I was in there just by the fact that zombies spawned near the player.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Katana67

[TOPMO3 119]

OP didnt even care to look up that most of his suggestions are already confirmed.

Actually I did. 

 

It's why I said that Dean mentioned there would be wandering zombies, animals, etc. 

 

What I'm concerned about is why these elements are not in the core alpha yet. Why I am able to spray-paint my gun, and attach things to my weapons, but I don't see any scary zombies in a game that's about zombies.

 

I want to know why the game felt more complete 2 years ago, than it does now, with 40x more man-power and resources, and money in the project.

[TOPMO3 119]

The "less zombies" deal is being worked on, they intend on having thousands of zombies spawned at one time. Sorting out how they spawn is what's holding them up I believe. It's very WIP, check out the roadmap (wherever it is). Zombies are nowhere near "working as intended".

 

The pathing is pretty much why they're acting as such (i.e. clipping through buildings, etc.) They weren't much better in the mod in my opinion, so the discrepancy isn't that huge. Although, the lack of zombies is noticeable. I'm really glad they got away from the client-spawned paradigm of the mod, I hated going into towns because people could tell I was in there just by the fact that zombies spawned near the player.

 

Good to know. I did hear in his dev blog about the pathing issues, and the zombie count. It's one of the reasons I paid for the SA. I was secretly hoping it would be closer to that product than where it is now :)

 

I should be clear, I'm not bitching at all. I'm offering my take on the game, and what I would like to see come of it. I'm glad some people agree, and I'm thankful for the discussions with those that don't, or think I should STFU. :)

[Valadain 270]

ARMA III has a wonderful method of making gamma adjustments not translate into pseudo-NVGs. The same method could be applied to DayZ.

 

I have no idea what constitutes that method, as I'm not as tech-savvy as some. But there were some screens floating around demonstrating what could be done.

 

Take a look at this

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/139346-remove-gamma-and-brightness-settings/

 

I would be curious to see how that holds up to out-of-game gamma adjustments.

[Katana67 2907]

Good to know. I did hear in his dev blog about the pathing issues, and the zombie count. It's one of the reasons I paid for the SA. I was secretly hoping it would be closer to that product than where it is now :)

 

I should be clear, I'm not bitching at all. I'm offering my take on the game, and what I would like to see come of it. I'm glad some people agree, and I'm thankful for the discussions with those that don't, or think I should STFU. :)

 

No, no, I get it. I would just try to keep the "Why isn't it as polished as the mod?" comparisons to a minimum in favor of your well-reasoned critique in the OP.

[TOPMO3 119]

I would be curious to see how that holds up to out-of-game gamma adjustments.

 

As far as I know, most games override any gamma adjustments that you make on your monitor. I could be wrong. Any expert opinions on this?

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Spot on analogy.. it is essentially a giant scavenger hunt right now. No real threats outside of pvp, and that is very thinned down vs. the mod. 

 

As far as what you can do, try experimental. The zeds are more of a threat as they spawn in, rather than 1-3 that you kill and then the place is silent. 

 

Also most of the other stuff has been confirmed as coming or not planned to be implemented. 

No offense, but you were a lot nicer to this guy then the last person to post a well-thought out impressions of their experience in DayZ SA.

 

The only difference being this man played the mod...

 

Those who have played the mod and those who have not are on equal levels. We are playing the Standalone, not the mod.

[Bine (DayZ) 2]

I am of the mind that one has to be careful when balancing zombie threat. There is a difference between -challenging- and -downright annoying-. Being forced to all out crawl around a town? Annoying if the zombies can still aggro onto you. Especially more annoying when they do aggro and take 15 minutes to lose. That is just annoying and stupid. This also helps out the 'lolbandits' camping coastal towns for fresh spawns. Shoot your gun at the player crawling along trying to avoid zeds. Watch him flip out and stand so he can run. At that point he wasted 15-20 minutes trying to escape the zombies tha the has little to no way of fighting back against without getting mauled to death.

 

Zombies should be a threat but it is a very fine line. I prefer them being easy to lose yet powerful compared to hard to lose and powerful with awsome perception skills. The latter is extreamly frustrating. It's not survival when zombies have a 600 yard vision range (it was set like that at one point during the mod) and are near impossible to lose. Admittedly, it was amusing finding new arrivals at the treelines when you see 12 zombies run from town torwards there. It was also frustrating getting blasted by a sniper because some zombie from half a kilometer away saw me as I ate some beans near the treeline.

 

That's really my only comment on this. I love dangerous zombies. I HATE annoying zombies. I want zombies to be -fast-. But also easily tricked or lost. That way some goober shooting a rifle from on a hill may have a threat to pay attention to that would, you know, reveal his location but at the same time isn't an oppresive "lol you have to run for 20 minutes or shoot me" ordeal. It also means some guy isn't going to easily be able to blast me in elektro 'cuz if he stops to shoot he gets smacked by 3 or 4 zombies. At least, after the firsst shot or two.

[DayZ_Friendly 145]

We are all gonna come full circle on this one.

 

They'll add more zombies, tougher zombies, zombies that can fly.

 

They'll add bears and armored unicorns.

 

And they'll add helicopters with 50cals so you can kill the zerbies, bears, and unicorns.

 

Then we'll be like, "I'm bored, I'm gonna go kill some people."

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Overall, this was a great post, though. 

[DayZ_Friendly 145]

BTW, guys it's a video game.

 

Being good at it, doesn't mean you could actually live in a zombie apocalypse.

 

I don't understand the elitism of calling yourself a "real-deal" gamer.

 

It's a video game.

[DayZ_Friendly 145]

I also find it hilarious when these so-called "survivalist" loses all their stuff to some CoD kid because the "survivalist" don't know how to combat.

 

They sure like to kill zombies though.

[TOPMO3 119]

I also find it hilarious when these so-called "survivalist" loses all their stuff to some CoD kid because the "survivalist" don't know how to combat.

 

They sure like to kill zombies though.

 

I fail to see anything constructive in your posts. :)

 

I understand that it's a video game, but if you're implying that us having an in-depth discussion on game balance and  core mechanics is silly because "it's a video game lol", then why are you sitting on the games forum to begin with. I hope it's because you want to participate in the discussion as well?

 

I shouldn't have used the term "real-gamer", and in hindsight feel pretty stupid for it :) I'll give you that.

 

What I meant was that Dean made the game to be hard, I think when the mod was reaching epic popularity and the tears were flowing from the casuals, he even mentioned something along the lines of him wanting to make it even more brutal, but he was afraid to drive away the community. My point here being is that I think the intention of this game is to be difficult. If you want to play it, you have to die lots.

 

I am fine with survivalists getting killed by COD kids who just camp Cherno/Electro all day. That's part of the game. 

[Valadain 270]

As far as I know, most games override any gamma adjustments that you make on your monitor. I could be wrong. Any expert opinions on this?

 

It can't override the monitor. Maybe things like the Nvidia panel, but I haven't seen that to be the case. Generally the override goes the other way from what I've seen. You also can't leave no adjustments as monitors vary a lot on darkness and contrast. If they can find a way and make enough ways to actually play at night, great. I probably won't much experience it unless they shorten the day/night cycle, but I would certainly feel better about hitting some night if I weren't at a huge disadvantage by leaving my gamma settings correct.

[DayZ_Friendly 145]

Well I do agree that there should be threats in the forests.  Zombies and animals.

 

I do think there should be a ton more zombies in the big cities like Elektro, Cherno, Svet, and Zelenodorks.  I mean the town is huge, but only like 10 people turned into a zombie?  Not realistic.

 

As far as brutal.  SA is pretty brutal.  Who here is actually playing the game as it should be?  No dayzdb.com map, no teamspeak or ventrillo, no way to let people know that you're only playing the "survivalist" part of DayZ and not the "PvP" part.

 

You are all cheating with these tools and you're saying the game is too easy.  Give me a break.

 

There's the brutality.  If you want a hard game, turn off all the "cheats". Stop jumping to an empty server when you go into a military base.  Play the game without a gun.

 

I'm just saying that people complaining now will never be satisfied.  Give them more things to do to avoid PvP and they'll do those things...until it becomes easy again.

Edited March 17, 2014 by DayZ_Friendly

[TOPMO3 119]

As far as brutal.  SA is pretty brutal.  Who here is actually playing the game as it should be?  No dayzdb.com map, no teamspeak or ventrillo, no way to let people know that you're only playing the "survivalist" part of DayZ and not the "PvE" part.

 

You are all cheating with these tools and you're saying the game is too easy.  Give me a break.

 

There's the brutality.  If you want a hard game, turn off all the "cheats". Stop jumping to an empty server when you go into a military base.  Play the game without a gun.

 

Interesting. Lets talk about this.

 

I don't know how much using dayzdb.com map actually is cheating. If you drop me anywhere in DayZ within 30 minutes I can tell you where I am. Having the map open doesn't protect me against tough zombies, or starvation, or PVP. I don't think using the map "breaks" the game.

 

Using teamspeak or ventrilo is cheating? Since when? I use it because I play with friends. If I could, I would bring my rig to their house, and play in the same room with them, then I wouldn't have to use TS or Vent, would I be playing "fair" by your standards then? Vent and Team speak is a social aspect to gaming, not cheating.

 

Now I will %100 agree with you that jumping on to an empty server when you're about to enter a dangerous area, or server hopping when you're taking fire/injured is the worst thing you can do right now. That has been, and currently is my #1 pet peeve, even more than what I mentioned in my OP. I personally don't do this, but I know people that do, and it makes me cry a little inside.

 

Playing the game without a gun is a little bit lol. I use whatever I can until I find a gun, but I'm not going bandit hunting with a knife :)

 

Overall though, thanks for the constructive input. I agree with you on most points!

[Katana67 2907]

Interesting. Lets talk about this.

 

I don't know how much using dayzdb.com map actually is cheating. If you drop me anywhere in DayZ within 30 minutes I can tell you where I am. Having the map open doesn't protect me against tough zombies, or starvation, or PVP. I don't think using the map "breaks" the game.

 

Using teamspeak or ventrilo is cheating? Since when? I use it because I play with friends. If I could, I would bring my rig to their house, and play in the same room with them, then I wouldn't have to use TS or Vent, would I be playing "fair" by your standards then? Vent and Team speak is a social aspect to gaming, not cheating.

 

Now I will %100 agree with you that jumping on to an empty server when you're about to enter a dangerous area, or server hopping when you're taking fire/injured is the worst thing you can do right now. That has been, and currently is my #1 pet peeve, even more than what I mentioned in my OP. I personally don't do this, but I know people that do, and it makes me cry a little inside.

 

Playing the game without a gun is a little bit lol. I use whatever I can until I find a gun, but I'm not going bandit hunting with a knife :)

 

Overall though, thanks for the constructive input. I agree with you on most points!

 

I personally frown upon using exterior maps and third-party communications software while playing DayZ. It's not "cheating" per se, but it's something that's detrimental to the game.

 

Why scavenge for pieces of a map when you get a fully rendered map when you alt-tab? Why care about your life or scavenge for an in-game walkie-talkie when you can just chat with your squad on the other side of the map via TS? These things undercut what could be great in-game inclusions, like walkie-talkies.

 

There's nothing "wrong" with any of these things as it stands, but they short change what would otherwise be contained and worthwhile mechanics. Same applies to forum trade boards, why do anything cool (like use the in-game pen/paper to set up a dead-drop trade) with regard to player interaction when you can just arrange a trade on a forum?

 

But yeah, I memorized the map long ago. I have very little use for a map either way, so that part doesn't really bother me as much as the TS stuff.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Katana67

[DayZ_Friendly 145]

It's cheating.

 

This is probably what Dean wanted to have to make SA more brutal.

 

The map basically tells you where everything is.  Water pumps, important buildings, the distance in meters from one spot to another.  There are maps in-game that you have to find.  Those are the maps you should be using.  It's cheating.

 

Vent or teamspeak is cheating.  

 

 - "Is that you in the cowboy hat?  I'm gonna shoot!!!"

- "Wait don't shoot it's me I switched from the helmet to the hat."

- "Oh ok, cuz I woulda shot you."

 

If you did go to your friends house and played, then fine. But don't use "global chat" to get around having to talk in-game or through walkie-talkies.  It's cheating.  It's telepathic cheating.

 

Turn off the crutches bro and play as a fresh spawn again.  Maybe you'll get more appreciation for the game.

 

Anyway, still a good post.