Remove all long firearms = best kill on sight deterrent.

[River Lizard 47]

Heck.......just let everyone spawn with a M4 fully equipped and about 300 rounds of ammo....because this game is completely open ended. 

[lipemr 160]

I would just assume that a Mosin looted on a military base would be in better condition than the low price range surplus rifles bought in american gun shops.

 

Mosins were in active use until the 90's, i don't think it entirely fair to compare the quality of the rifles the military has, and the surplus mosins from the world war era.

 

Fun fact. Mosins were produced into the 60s.

 

mosins are supposed to be civilian loot, AKA hunting weapons, prolly beaten up surplus rifles that couldnt be sold to other country's armed forces for being in bad shape.

[Valadain 270]

I would agree with that if sniping were difficult but it is not. Add ace style sniping and even 300m shots will be hard and less people will even attempt to snipe.

 

I agree with this. Realism should be the deterrent, not fake mechanics. One of the things that drew me to this game was that sniping wasn't point and click in Arma. The more realism on this the better in my opinion.

[lipemr 160]

Sorry but all sources i can find says different.

 

A pristine Mosin is said to have an effective range of up to 800 M. A fal 600.  Which falls well in line with the benefits that comes with bolt action.

 

A bolt action will generally shoot more accurate than a gas operation using the same round. 

 

so you guess what range a weapon is effective by the zeroing it has on the iron sights?

 

the in-game mosins were supposedly fabricated in early 1900 years, going through a lot of military and hunting action, being left without maintenance for a great deal of time and probably losing most of its rifling in the process, plus some warps in the stock and lousiness on the bolt.

 

Mosins are just NOT accurate in 99% of the cases.

[thznutz 112]

 

Mosins are just NOT accurate in 99% of the cases.

i realize you are trying to make a point, which i agree with to some degree, but fabricating statistics is not the best method of making your case.

 

if a mosin found in game is worn/damaged/etc then i would expect it to perform accordingly. likewise with a pristine mosin.

 

mosin rifles from the late 30's through WW2 can still be had, and in pristine condition if you dont mind cleaning off alot of cosmoline. 

[Rick1633 136]

So we would get killed by no reload magnum hackers with aimbot.  Whats the fucking difference with this unfinished mess of a game?

[lipemr 160]

i realize you are trying to make a point, which i agree with to some degree, but fabricating statistics is not the best method of making your case.

 

if a mosin found in game is worn/damaged/etc then i would expect it to perform accordingly. likewise with a pristine mosin.

 

mosin rifles from the late 30's through WW2 can still be had, and in pristine condition if you dont mind cleaning off alot of cosmoline. 

 

well, even a pristine mosin wouldnt be accurate enough as they are in game right now.

 

Otherwise we would be supplying all sniper troops in the earth with mosins, fuck the m24's, mosins are totally reliable at 1km shots, totally, right?

 

The machining standarts for russian made surplus mosins are not made for precision, same as in the surplus AKMs. The lack of accuracy is inherent on a rifle that wasnt designed to be a precision rifle.

[gibonez 3633]

well, even a pristine mosin wouldnt be accurate enough as they are in game right now.

Otherwise we would be supplying all sniper troops in the earth with mosins, fuck the m24's, mosins are totally reliable at 1km shots, totally, right?

The machining standarts for russian made surplus mosins are not made for precision, same as in the surplus AKMs. The lack of accuracy is inherent on a rifle that wasnt designed to be a precision rifle.

Let me paint this image for you.

A stock mosin is about 4 moa with surplus ammo. At 100m the rifle will randomly hit anywhere around 4 inches of the point of Impact.

At 1000m the rifle will hit anywhere near 40 inches of where the point of impact is this does not include wind so the variation is even greater.

Meanwhile you take a factory remington 700 and load it with factory match ammo that is widely available and cheap and you are now shooting at 1/2 moa at 100m that's half an inch. At 1000m that 5 inches of variation.

This is why people choose the remington 700 as their platform for sniper rifles throughout the world. The reason army in the world would use a mosin for sniping unless they did not have the financial means to not.

[lipemr 160]

Let me paint this image for you.

A stock mosin is about 4 moa with surplus ammo. At 100m the rifle will randomly hit anywhere around 4 inches of the point of Impact.

At 1000m the rifle will hit anywhere near 40 inches of where the point of impact is this does not include wind so the variation is even greater.

Meanwhile you take a factory remington 700 and load it with factory match ammo that is widely available and cheap and you are now shooting at 1/2 moa at 100m that's half an inch. At 1000m that 5 inches of variation.

This is why people choose the remington 700 as their platform for sniper rifles throughout the world. The reason army in the world would use a mosin for sniping unless they did not have the financial means to not.

 

that's what i'm saying, friend.

 

mosins are unrealistic on the game, even with R700's, 800~1000 meter shots should be a pain in the ass due to windage and all other factors.

 

People just seem to ignore the real world when it comes to their precious 'sniper' rifles in the game.

[Demoth 366]

1 Yards iron sight with Mosin, in conditions realistically achievable in the DayZ environment.

Sometimes i wonder why people are so insistent on something they are assuming.

As i hunter, i am very aware of the possibilities of seemingly average people being able to shoot at 700-800 M. I myself have shot at over 1 KM many times, just for fun each year when i zero in for the season. The windy years are the most fun. And most of my friends are able to learn within 5-10 shots..

Accurate shots? Maybe not, but within the frame of a human torso

That was an intellectually dishonest counter point to what we were talking about. Nothing about that gun was "stock", and that isn't just normal ammo.

And I shoot a lot. I'm not sure who you are if you're consistently iron sight hitting targets at 1k with random normal people at ranges, but you're either all super snipers who had your memories erased, or you're grossly exaggerating.

[gibonez 3633]

That was an intellectually dishonest counter point to what we were talking about. Nothing about that gun was "stock", and that isn't just normal ammo.

And I shoot a lot. I'm not sure who you are if you're consistently iron sight hitting targets at 1k with random normal people at ranges, but you're either all super snipers who had your memories erased, or you're grossly exaggerating.

Had he been a stock mosin I would bet my left sack there would be 0 his on that target. Especially with how mosins are a notorious for having misalignment with their sights.

[gibonez 3633]

That was an intellectually dishonest counter point to what we were talking about. Nothing about that gun was "stock", and that isn't just normal ammo.

And I shoot a lot. I'm not sure who you are if you're consistently iron sight hitting targets at 1k with random normal people at ranges, but you're either all super snipers who had your memories erased, or you're grossly exaggerating.

Had he been a stock mosin I would bet my left sack there would be 0 his on that target. Especially with how mosins are a notorious for having misalignment with their sights.

[gibonez 3633]

That was an intellectually dishonest counter point to what we were talking about. Nothing about that gun was "stock", and that isn't just normal ammo.

And I shoot a lot. I'm not sure who you are if you're consistently iron sight hitting targets at 1k with random normal people at ranges, but you're either all super snipers who had your memories erased, or you're grossly exaggerating.

Had he been a stock mosin I would bet my left sack there would be 0 his on that target. Especially with how mosins are a notorious for having misalignment with their sights.

[Firstbornchicken 34]

I am really sad to see the arguments people bring against me.

 

Wind-age, humidity and all that is not in the game as of now, thus it has no relativity to the current accuracy of the weapons

I am not saying it shoots reliable at 1000M +, all i am saying is that it is cable of doing it if in good shape. If these wind conditions etc is added (when hopefully) it would effect all weapons equally. Moot point is moot.

 

What i am saying is, that is has an acknowledged effective range of 800 M with a scope.This means that the general consensus is that the weapon is effective at 800 m. It's not a claim i am making.

 

No, i am not judging the effective range on the distance the gun can be zeroed, if i did, i would claim the effective range of a AKM to be 1000 M, when it truly is around 400-500.

 

And yeah, we find some of the mosins in poor peoples houses, we also find them along side M4s in military bases. Lets wager that the ingame condition of weapons will play a factor here, totally nullifying that argument

 

It being a "Civilian weapon" is i think your own interpretation. It is a military rifle, and it can be found on military bases. It might not be up to current standards of "military grade" But it was still designed and used as a military sniper rifle. 

 

Oh and the 91/30 is the gun the Russian police use, how far fetched is it finding one seeing as where the game is taking place

 

Btw, just about all 7.6 bolt action rifles share the effective range of 800 M. It is common enough to be a rule of thumb

 

 

Now here is the kicker... The mosin is still ACTIVELY used in Russia, both by the military special forces and the police. I think finding a well kept Mosin in or near russia, is a bit more likely than you yanks think when comparing to your surplus gun shop trash

Edited March 18, 2014 by Firstbornchicken

[gibonez 3633]

Oh and the 91/30 is a collectors item. Rare and not reproduced.

Btw, just about all 7.6 bolt action rifles share the effective range of 800 M. It is common enough to be a rule of thumb

Wtf go you just about any gun store and they will have hunk of junk mosins for sale for 100 dollars.

Through film and television the mosin Nagant has been romanticized but the truth is that the rifle is a pos.

When the men of the American 339th Infantry deployed to Northern Russia in September 1918 they carried Mosin-Nagant 91s. The MN91s were issued to them by the British War Office, which was in charge of the operation, for logistical reasons. Allied commanders believed a large cache of 7.62x54mmR ammunition was in the vicinity of Arkhangelsk, but this turned out to be not the case. Though they were given sufficient time to familiarize themselves with the MN rifles, both the enlisted men and officers of the 339th, accustomed to M1903 Springfields or M1917 Enfields, hated the Russian rifles, calling them "worthless weapons" and remarking, "No wonder they [the Russians] lost the war." Interestingly, these rifles were American-made, either by Remington or New England Westinghouse under contract with the Imperial Russian government, and were surplus when the Bolsheviks cancelled the contract.

[Firstbornchicken 34]

Had he been a stock mosin I would bet my left sack there would be 0 his on that target. Especially with how mosins are a notorious for having misalignment with their sights.

 

They are no such thing..

 

There are 8 variants of the mosin, produced by several different companies with several different tweaks.. If anything the Mosin is notorious for being accurate.

 

Generally viewed as highly accurate, these rifles show a capability of two-inch groups or better at 100 yards/meters

 

Btw, he is using a 91/30, a variant currently in active use by Russia. Would be a likely weapon to stumble upon in the settings of DayZ

Edited March 18, 2014 by Firstbornchicken

[Firstbornchicken 34]

Wtf go you just about any gun store and they will have hunk of junk mosins for sale for 100 dollars.

 

 

I had mistaken the 91/30 for another variant, which were quickly corrected in the post. 

 

But there is a reason the junk Mosins are abundant in US gun shops... They are the trash guns, and resellers tend to have a hard time reselling trash, so the trash accumulate. 

 

The decent Mosins are sold between private people. The gun shops carry trash and generic junk

Edited March 18, 2014 by Firstbornchicken

[gibonez 3633]

They mosins you find in gun shops are the same mosins that people sell amongst themselves. All pieces of shit.

The only good mosin is a Finish mosin. All Russian made mosins are 4 moa shooting trash.

[sYs 133]

avent got shot from a long range mosin in 100+ hours on 30-50 ppl pop servers. 

[Firstbornchicken 34]

They mosins you find in gun shops are the same mosins that people sell amongst themselves. All pieces of shit.

 

The condition is better. Keep shouting it's shit, it won't add anything.

 

The Mosin is very accurate. It had been adopted by many countries for that very reason, and has been produced in mass. There will be much trash, sure, but there are plenty of well kept mosins out in private hands, and there are still millions of mosins in active use in Russia.

 

So finding a great condition mosin at an army base is likely/plausible. And they are already implementing a condition system in the game. So whats the point?

 

There is a good chance that pristine weapons are rare, and would only be at or near military bases. Saying the Mosin is unrealistic because the game mechanics is hardset to pristine, is such a premature argument. Wait until the condition system is worked on more, or come up with suggestion as how it could be changed to better reflect reality..

 

Unless your reality is this "All mosins are shit omfg" because that is just flat out wrong

[lipemr 160]

I am really sad to see the arguments people bring against me.

 

Wind-age, humidity and all that is not in the game as of now, thus it has no relativity to the current accuracy of the weapons

I am not saying it shoots reliable at 1000M +, all i am saying is that it is cable of doing it if in good shape. If these wind conditions etc is added (when hopefully) it would effect all weapons equally. Moot point is moot.

 

What i am saying is, that is has an acknowledged effective range of 800 M with a scope.This means that the general consensus is that the weapon is effective at 800 m. It's not a claim i am making.

 

No, i am not judging the effective range on the distance the gun can be zeroed, if i did, i would claim the effective range of a AKM to be 1000 M, when it truly is around 400-500.

 

And yeah, we find some of the mosins in poor peoples houses, we also find them along side M4s in military bases. Lets wager that the ingame condition of weapons will play a factor here, totally nullifying that argument

 

It being a "Civilian weapon" is i think your own interpretation. It is a military rifle, and it can be found on military bases. It might not be up to current standards of "military grade" But it was still designed and used as a military sniper rifle. 

 

Oh and the 91/30 is the gun the Russian police use, how far fetched is it finding one seeing as where the game is taking place

 

Btw, just about all 7.6 bolt action rifles share the effective range of 800 M. It is common enough to be a rule of thumb

 

 

Now here is the kicker... The mosin is still ACTIVELY used in Russia, both by the military special forces and the police. I think finding a well kept Mosin in or near russia, is a bit more likely than you yanks think when comparing to your surplus gun shop trash

 

nope, old rifles like the mosin and akms are only used for training in heavy conditions so you dont screw up thousands of m4s a year just for training privates. They dont shoot them at all.

 

Were you in the military at all? you dont seem to know much about how things are done inside there.

 

And the mosins were NEVER, EVER designed to be a sniper rifle, NEVER. They were designed to be a battle rifle, AKA rifle that is good enough to hit the soldier in the other trench 100 meters away.

 

SOME of the mosins were used as sniper rifles, but they were selected between hundreds of crappy ones and given to fewer soldiers.

 

And read something about the MOAs in mosins, FFS, without ANY external condition, a mosin will hit anywhere 1 meter around the target at ~900 meters, considering it is on good shape.

 

Mosins are crappy for long range shooting, they just are, you donw know shit about guns if you think otherwise.

Edited March 18, 2014 by lipemr

[Meenos 47]

We need at least 1 sniper in game. else there is no variation, Becide. The mosin is pretty rare loot anyhow

[lipemr 160]

The condition is better. Keep shouting it's shit, it won't add anything.

 

The Mosin is very accurate. It had been adopted by many countries for that very reason, and has been produced in mass. There will be much trash, sure, but there are plenty of well kept mosins out in private hands, and there are still millions of mosins in active use in Russia.

 

So finding a great condition mosin at an army base is likely/plausible. And they are already implementing a condition system in the game. So whats the point?

 

There is a good chance that pristine weapons are rare, and would only be at or near military bases. Saying the Mosin is unrealistic because the game mechanics is hardset to pristine, is such a premature argument. Wait until the condition system is worked on more, or come up with suggestion as how it could be changed to better reflect reality..

 

Unless your reality is this "All mosins are shit omfg" because that is just flat out wrong

 

what the hell, you're a russian/mosin venerator, it's all explained now.

 

post a video of you shooting a surplus mosin on a target 1km away and hitting 5 consecutive hits, then i'll listen to you, otherwise everything you're saying is bullshit.

 

No police/military force uses mosins today, just the lenght and weight of that thing alone would make it not viable, stop with these made up stories, FFS.

[gibonez 3633]

We need at least 1 sniper in game. else there is no variation, Becide. The mosin is pretty rare loot anyhow

That first precision rifle should have been the remington 700.

It a 1 moa gun that easily takes any modern scope out bipod easily without gun smithing.

The mosin taking bipeds and lrs is laughable. The mosin should be a iron sighted gun with the rare pu scope.

[alleycat 135]

I am just going to skip over the whole mosin argument because american firearms users will obviously trash talk about the mosin because it is a russian weapon.

 

The game would be a lot more fun if pvp encounters would be exciting shootouts on short range instead of the usual sniper hiding near a highly visited loot spot. And it would be a powerful deterrent against shooting on sight if you have to risk something when you do it. Using a rifle on 200m is no risk, while using a pistol on 50m opens a lot of possibilities for things that can go wrong.

The game needs more risk to the reward of shooting and looting other players. No matter how rare a mosin is in the game loot, there will be a few on every server because a 5 minute connection delay wont stop me from server hopping airfield, because that still beats running an hour to the next high end loot area