Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
over9000nukez

Hardcore: Shouldnt Zoom Not Exist?

Recommended Posts

I was thinking we should have less zoom , like an eye squint, like x1.25 - x1.5 when you hold right click. the game is super easy when you have this invisible binos ready to go.

At this point you are just trolling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he will look like a human at range i can bloody shoot roos (kangaroos) at 250 plus meters with an unscoped 308 i have never mistook a human for a roo at those ranges and further more i can tell a guy injured at that range( my mate twisted his ankle i knew long before he got to me roughly what he had done by his movement...

 

I play hardcore/1pp only and see the focus view/zoom as the only way they can replicate real vision.. i am sorry your pulling magnification levels out of your butt....

 

It may be 2x the retracted view because that view has been brought back to give peripheral view but when you have focused or zoomed as you call it its actually normal range vision...

 

What you want is to have everyone nerfed as if they suffer short sightedness ( some people do suffer it ) but if you have 20/20 vision which thankfully at 40 i still dothe focus is fine...

if the zoomed in was my normal perspective wouldn't I see my feet and not my legs and body? maybe a bit of my legs, but still. the ability to go half-superman is a bit off, and I'm not talking about zoom on a scope, that's a magnifying glass, it works like that, but an eye needs a magnifying glass to see far distances, our eyes in dayz don't really need it as much, on certain occasions above 600m+, but that's only because our dayZ eye can see up to 500m by holding right click, and some scopes have the same power as your right click, its someone ridiculous.

 

But still I need to make a public service announcement, that I live in the US, and we don't have the metric system, so by 200m I may be a bit off, and I actually mean like 300ish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking we should have less zoom , like an eye squint, like x1.25 - x1.5 when you hold right click. the game is super easy when you have this invisible binos ready to go.

the zoom in the game is only 1x at the moment, the default state is actually less then 1x the magnification of the human eye, that's your problem, we don't have invisible binos, we have invisible denos to compensate for the accurate detail visions ability to convey peripheral vision without compromising said detail accuracy.

 

"zoomed in" is there to accurately simulate the level of detail we see, "zoomed out" is there to accurately simulate the amount of things we can see at once, by having both the game more realistically simulates the human eye then any one of those features would alone. you need to stop thinking of it as some sort of magical super power, it's actually a gimped and inferior version of real life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
louist, on 23 Feb 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

For those complaining: just set the "zoomed" view as default, and have right like pull the camera back. Now you can actively "scan your surroundings," and have no need to complain about what is, in reality, a mechanism designed to counter the game's inability to replicate human sight. Now you can stop getting hung up on the term "zoom."

Problem solved.

you completely missed your target, im talking about how you can right click and zoom in x2 with any setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if the zoomed in was my normal perspective wouldn't I see my feet and not my legs and body? maybe a bit of my legs, but still. the ability to go half-superman is a bit off, and I'm not talking about zoom on a scope, that's a magnifying glass, it works like that, but an eye needs a magnifying glass to see far distances, our eyes in dayz don't really need it as much, on certain occasions above 600m+, but that's only because our dayZ eye can see up to 500m by holding right click, and some scopes have the same power as your right click, its someone ridiculous.

 

But still I need to make a public service announcement, that I live in the US, and we don't have the metric system, so by 200m I may be a bit off, and I actually mean like 300ish.

if you can't make out a person at 300m you still need to get your eyes checked. and zoomed more closely represents your normal perspective, it just can't do that while also covering the same amount of area, imagine the level of detail you get while zoomed in, but over the same area as you get while zoomed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the zoom in the game is only 1x at the moment, the default state is actually less then 1x the magnification of the human eye, that's your problem, we don't have invisible binos, we have invisible denos to compensate for the accurate detail visions ability to convey peripheral vision without compromising said detail accuracy.

 

"zoomed in" is there to accurately simulate the level of detail we see, "zoomed out" is there to accurately simulate the amount of things we can see at once, by having both the game more realistically simulates the human eye then any one of those features would alone. you need to stop thinking of it as some sort of magical super power, it's actually a gimped and inferior version of real life.

this is a great point, I just think it should be slightly less, maybe when the game is more optimized? its just I've been spotted from distances that normal humans cant see, they pull out their gun and blast me,

 

back to the example of my backyard and seeing birds, I couldn't see them clearly from more then 30 m away, I just got glasses, for me it was a black figure hopping around, I grabbed my binos, could see it was obviously a bird (I knew because of the way it moved around ,and I threw bird feed out) BUT, what whould a human look like from 300-400 m away with your naked eye, an ant, most likely. and youd have to observe a small while to see, "is that a human? or a zombie sitting still?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you completely missed your target, im talking about how you can right click and zoom in x2 with any setting.

My friend, that's exactly what I mean. Have that "zoom" be the default state, and have right click pull back to the"zoomed out" perspective. Then you could stop complaining.

But as has been (repeatedly) pointed out to you, that "2x zoom" isn't 2x at all. You just seem to be having trouble grasping the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you can't make out a person at 300m you still need to get your eyes checked. and zoomed more closely represents your normal perspective, it just can't do that while also covering the same amount of area, imagine the level of detail you get while zoomed in, but over the same area as you get while zoomed out.

well I cant make out a human in 1 second from 300m away, id have to at least look for a few seconds,

 

and I think if the game were more optimized it would work better, its just you are literally cropping an image from your screen and observing it. and I don't know about you, but I cant do that in really like, from 300m youd look like an ant, id have to observe a bit to see if your a person or a zombie, or just an oddly shaped bush, or a sapling in a forest (depending on camo) but my example is mainly in a forest zone, I wouldn't be able to tell, if you were wearing something brown, if you were a person or not, id just run right past you, and when you have the ability to zoom like some superhero, I can crop the image on my screen and see "ya that's a person" and proceed to kill you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My friend, that's exactly what I mean. Have that "zoom" be the default state, and have right click pull back to the"zoomed out" perspective. Then you could stop complaining.

But as has been (repeatedly) pointed out to you, that "2x zoom" isn't 2x at all. You just seem to be having trouble grasping the point.

I know, your just cropping the image basically, making it so you can observe a figure from further away then normal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is a great point, I just think it should be slightly less, maybe when the game is more optimized? its just I've been spotted from distances that normal humans cant see, they pull out their gun and blast me,

 

back to the example of my backyard and seeing birds, I couldn't see them clearly from more then 30 m away, I just got glasses, for me it was a black figure hopping around, I grabbed my binos, could see it was obviously a bird (I knew because of the way it moved around ,and I threw bird feed out) BUT, what whould a human look like from 300-400 m away with your naked eye, an ant, most likely. and youd have to observe a small while to see, "is that a human? or a zombie sitting still?"

I think you need new glasses mate, if you can't make out most of the details of a bird in your backyard then you've got some serious problems. the problem is that the "zoom" feels like binoculars because they do what binoculars do, they cut of peripheral to show a greater level of detail, but in dayZ the zoomed state is actually only showing you as much detail as you get in real life, it feels like more because it contrasts with the default view in the same way binoculars would, but it's really the zoomed out state that is at fault. if the technology could support it we'd have the zoomed in state with the same amount of coverage as the default state, but since we can't have both at the same time we have to make do with both separately.

 

just remember, 1x is the default magnification of the human eye, and zoomed in is only 1x magnification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is a great point, I just think it should be slightly less, maybe when the game is more optimized? its just I've been spotted from distances that normal humans cant see, they pull out their gun and blast me,

 

back to the example of my backyard and seeing birds, I couldn't see them clearly from more then 30 m away, I just got glasses, for me it was a black figure hopping around, I grabbed my binos, could see it was obviously a bird (I knew because of the way it moved around ,and I threw bird feed out) BUT, what whould a human look like from 300-400 m away with your naked eye, an ant, most likely. and youd have to observe a small while to see, "is that a human? or a zombie sitting still?"

I can safely say i can spot  a human or human sized animal ( kangaroos are similar in size) at near 1km in open ground specially when i have high ground granted what gives them away is the movement that draws me to it if they stand still there isnt enough detail at range to determine..

 

So in basic your complaining about the focus because you run every where giving away your position now i see the problem you want the game to cater to your in ability to play it ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well I cant make out a human in 1 second from 300m away, id have to at least look for a few seconds,

and I think if the game were more optimized it would work better, its just you are literally cropping an image from your screen and observing it. and I don't know about you, but I cant do that in really like, from 300m youd look like an ant, id have to observe a bit to see if your a person or a zombie, or just an oddly shaped bush, or a sapling in a forest (depending on camo) but my example is mainly in a forest zone, I wouldn't be able to tell, if you were wearing something brown, if you were a person or not, id just run right past you, and when you have the ability to zoom like some superhero, I can crop the image on my screen and see "ya that's a person" and proceed to kill you.

To provide you with some perspective, 300m is about 1 and a half city blocks. If you can't tell a person from a bush at that distance, you really should have your eyes checked. People aren't ants at that distance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well I cant make out a human in 1 second from 300m away, id have to at least look for a few seconds,

 

and I think if the game were more optimized it would work better, its just you are literally cropping an image from your screen and observing it. and I don't know about you, but I cant do that in really like, from 300m youd look like an ant, id have to observe a bit to see if your a person or a zombie, or just an oddly shaped bush, or a sapling in a forest (depending on camo) but my example is mainly in a forest zone, I wouldn't be able to tell, if you were wearing something brown, if you were a person or not, id just run right past you, and when you have the ability to zoom like some superhero, I can crop the image on my screen and see "ya that's a person" and proceed to kill you.

you're missing the point, in real life we don't have to crop the image to get the same level of detail as we do zoomed in DayZ.

 

things you can make out zoomed in DayZ are things you would be able to make out in real life, the things you can't make out while zoomed in DayZ are the things you wouldn't be able to make out in real life.

 

you need to stop thinking of it like cropping an image, in real life we get 1x magnification without cropping anything, but in dayZ we can't get an accurate 1x magnification without cropping due to technical limitations, so in order to show you the same amount of detail as you would see in real life they can only show you a little bit of the area you would be able to see in real life, in real life you'd get that same level of magnification but you'd be able to see beyond the borders of the computer screen at the same time,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi.

 

OP, you should try doing a little research about fov in simulators. You need to think of your monitor as a rectangular box held in front of your face, however many inches away as it is while playing. With a proper sim fov set, objects on screen will appear the exact size and shape as they would irl. But of course you would have no peripheral vision at all.

 

This is why you would never see your feet(as you suggest), without actually panning the camera down. This is also why, the default fov in game is unrealistically 'zoomed out', making everything in the virtual world much smaller than it would be irl, to allow for some peripheral vision. When using the focus('zoomed in') view it's closer to a proper sim fov, making objects in the virtual world closer to the size and shape they would be irl.

 

I know this has been explained repeatedly(in different ways) in the thread already, yet you still maintain this silly magic binocular argument, so I'm guessing your just trolling?

 

Regards.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you need new glasses mate, if you can't make out most of the details of a bird in your backyard then you've got some serious problems. the problem is that the "zoom" feels like binoculars because they do what binoculars do, they cut of peripheral to show a greater level of detail, but in dayZ the zoomed state is actually only showing you as much detail as you get in real life, it feels like more because it contrasts with the default view in the same way binoculars would, but it's really the zoomed out state that is at fault. if the technology could support it we'd have the zoomed in state with the same amount of coverage as the default state, but since we can't have both at the same time we have to make do with both separately.

 

just remember, 1x is the default magnification of the human eye, and zoomed in is only 1x magnification.

by make out a bird I ment its "parts" eyes wings, but from where I was looking it was the size of like my half small toe looking at my feet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi.

 

OP, you should try doing a little research about fov in simulators. You need to think of your monitor as a rectangular box held in front of your face, however many inches away as it is while playing. With a proper sim fov set, objects on screen will appear the exact size and shape as they would irl. But of course you would have no peripheral vision at all.

 

This is why you would never see your feet(as you suggest), without actually panning the camera down. This is also why, the default fov in game is unrealistically 'zoomed out', making everything in the virtual world much smaller than it would be irl, to allow for some peripheral vision. When using the focus('zoomed in') view it's closer to a proper sim fov, making objects in the virtual world closer to the size and shape they would be irl.

 

I know this has been explained repeatedly(in different ways) in the thread already, yet you still maintain this silly magic binocular argument, so I'm guessing your just trolling?

 

Regards.

I understand, but what if the game weren't in alpha still, and objects could look like their regular sized irl counterparts, im about to post an example of why this is a bit odd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so this is what I think here.waldo.gif

now imagine you have like twice the viewing power you have now, right now your standing on top of a big hill looking down, but now you can zoom inward, go ahead, put your face against your screen, it helps finding this waldo guy.

 

I'm too lazy to find him, I think I found his evil twin brother though. this is why I think its a slight bit cheaty, from here everyone looks like an ant, but when you have this power you crop the image to find him, its far easier to catch waldo.

 

oh I found him! he's at the skull , 1cm to the right, now if I actually tried to find him without magnifying the image it would take me like 5 mintes longer maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

by make out a bird I ment its "parts" eyes wings, but from where I was looking it was the size of like my half small toe looking at my feet

how big was this bird? because at 30m you should be able to make out the wings head and body of most any bird (unless it's literally tiny already),

 

so this is what I think here.waldo.gif

now imagine you have like twice the viewing power you have now, right now your standing on top of a big hill looking down, but now you can zoom inward, go ahead, put your face against your screen, it helps finding this waldo guy.

 

I'm too lazy to find him, I think I found his evil twin brother though. this is why I think its a slight bit cheaty, from here everyone looks like an ant, but when you have this power you crop the image to find him, its far easier to catch waldo.

 

oh I found him! he's at the skull , 1cm to the right, now if I actually tried to find him without magnifying the image it would take me like 5 mintes longer maybe.

again, you're missing the point, in real life we can't zoom in to make things easier, this is true, but in game we aren't zooming in any further then you would in real life, we are only zooming in to MATCH how much detail we would see in real life. yes it's easier without zoom, but not easier then it would be in real life, even when zoomed in it's harder then seeing things in real life because in real life we don't have to sacrifice peripheral vision entirely just to get the natural magnification of our eyes.

 

and if that "where's wally" image were at the resolution of a human eye it would be far larger then your monitor, and you'd need to zoom in to be able to see it at the same quality as the human eye would if it were seeing it in real life, but you'd also need to zoom out to see as much of it area wise if you were seeing it in real life, pretty much exactly like we have in dayZ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im suggesting the middleground, we can zoom 1.5x - 1.25x just so we can have what a human eye can see, but its ridiculous when you can crop an image of electro from sniper kill wth just your normal human eye to see what a guy is wearing. or if he has a gun, all that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im suggesting the middleground, we can zoom 1.5x - 1.25x just so we can have what a human eye can see, but its ridiculous when you can crop an image of electro from sniper kill wth just your normal human eye to see what a guy is wearing. or if he has a gun, all that.

we don't need a middle ground, what we already have is a middle ground between realism and what can be accomplished with the technology, what you're proposing is to reduce the amount of realism in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we don't need a middle ground, what we already have is a middle ground between realism and what can be accomplished with the technology, what you're proposing is to reduce the amount of realism in the game.

I cant tell if a guy is my friend from 300m away, in dayz I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im suggesting the middleground, we can zoom 1.5x - 1.25x just so we can have what a human eye can see, but its ridiculous when you can crop an image of electro from sniper kill wth just your normal human eye to see what a guy is wearing. or if he has a gun, all that.

Your suggesting we all become short sighted NOOOOOOOOOOO

 

no

 

Your not getting it the non focused view is zoomed out to about half what normal vision is to get peripheral view so when you zoom in 2x what you get is WOW normal 1x view minus the peripheral vision we would have IRL..

 

Face it you obviously dont get it and want this because you suck at the game sorry man if people are spotting you its because your giving yourself away..

 

Now time to pull on the big boy pants and move on ( well unless your vision is so bad you cant see them ofcourse...

Edited by SoulFirez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant tell if a guy is my friend from 300m away, in dayz I can.

and as we have established, you need to get your eyes checked.

 

(also you can't actually tell people apart in dayZ visually except for clothing so... no, you can't)

 

unless they a stranger looks almost entirely the same as my friends do I can usually tell them apart at 300m (esspecially if I know what they're wearing).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand, but what if the game weren't in alpha still, and objects could look like their regular sized irl counterparts, im about to post an example of why this is a bit odd.

 

Ok. I'm starting to think that you are deliberately obtuse here.

 

It's not a problem of DayZ. It's a problem of our screens unable to render a human-sized object at greater distances due to the limits of resolution and field of view.

 

To put it simple: the greater your FoV in game the less pixels you have to render a given object. At some point the game engine cannot render an object anymore because the pixel itself would be bigger than the actual object. In order to realistically simulate the human eye you have to reduce FoV to the point where you can still render distant objects the way the human eye would display them. This is the "zoomed in" view in DayZ. The "normal" view is basically a wide angle view that offers greater FoV at the cost of reduced details at distance.

 

Sorry, but I really can't explain it any better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×