Hardcore: Shouldnt Zoom Not Exist?

[blissfulkunt 196]

I say yes only because I have a lower end computer (please dont hate) and I have trouble with seeing people as it is lol

[soulfirez 901]

I say yes only because I have a lower end computer (please dont hate) and I have trouble with seeing people as it is lol

Have you noticed that when you use focus view ( some call it zoom but as it is 1x magnification anyone buy binocs that are 1x magnification there called straight glass lol ) you actually get more fps while focused ..

 

Why because the game renders everything in the path of your view so in retracted view for the peripheral view it has to render far more as your cone of view is much wider so you would be dis advantaging yourself to remove it lol ...

[minime1000 78]

So , hardcore im guessing is slightly more realistic, without the advantage of being able to stare over a wall while you've go your nose against the wall.

 

Why have this zooming then? being able to see for sure if someone is up the road 200m is kind of odd, I wish I could go 2x vision in the real world.

 

What do you think?

My eyes irl doesn't see in low resolution pixels.

[Proper Gander 45]

How did you wrap your head around that argument? Im stating that it IS zoom. Since well, it is. If there are 2 different views and its 1st person only, how is that not somehow a zoom?

Its okay to not agree with me, thats good. But to just try to say I failed to read what was posted or even to comprehend the conversation here is another thing altogether. I get it.. people want it to stay, passionately. But I think in hardcore no second view at all would be beneficial. So there would be only one view. I care nothing about actual real life eyes here. I care about the concept of not having a "zoom" in hardcore for the naked eye. That sounds good to me.

I got you, but in this case you should argue that the default "zoom out" be removed, as the "zoom in" is the normal 1x view.

[gibonez 3633]

I agree that the zoom is a little extreme.  It is supposed to be a replacement for the human eye to focus on something.

 

It is simulating resolution.

 

Currently even at 4k resolution it is impossible to render the amount of objects on screen and the sheer distance that a human eye can see.

 

This is why zoom is added.

 

The human eye I read is somewhere near the 356 mega pixel region meanwhile even the highest resolution monitors or triple screen setups are not even a fraction of this.

 

Because of this it is hard to render long distance objects in game and seeing how arma is a simulation game with long distance gunplay this could be a problem.

 

Zoom is there for a reason.

[gibonez 3633]

In fact here check this out

http://www.gigapixelperu.com/Welcome.html

 

The above picture sorta represents what zoom does. Say you are standing on that cliff the furthest person away would be perhaps no further than 700m yet on any computer screen in any resolution it would be hard to distinguish them. In person however you would easily be able to see the person 700m away if you knew hew as there this is sorta what the zoom in game is for. It is merely a bandaid to fix one of the limitations of monitors.

[cj14 189]

- This is not a simulator

- People usually play on HxC servers (or play in 3pp)

- The engine is not fully optimized

- Some computers can only run the game on LOW settings

 

With all this said, I think that little zoom should exist, it helps to render distant objects and players that (if we talk about realism) we should be able to see...Maybe when this is not an issue anymore, they can take that out

[omgwtfbbq (DayZ) 1069]

Can we PLEASE sticky a thread explaining why you can zoom? I'm sick of the daily thread complaining about it/wondering why you can do it.

 

 

 

 

 

- This is not a simulator

 

Yes, it is. ArmA is a military simulator. DayZ is a zombie apocalypse simulator.

Edited February 23, 2014 by omgwtfbbq

[louist 163]

- This is not a simulator

- People usually play on HxC servers (or play in 3pp)

- The engine is not fully optimized

- Some computers can only run the game on LOW settings

With all this said, I think that little zoom should exist, it helps to render distant objects and players that (if we talk about realism) we should be able to see...Maybe when this is not an issue anymore, they can take that out

The engine, even with further optimization, will never reach that point. It's an old engine with a lot of limitations, which are still evident in the version Arma III uses.

[blissfulkunt 196]

Have you noticed that when you use focus view ( some call it zoom but as it is 1x magnification anyone buy binocs that are 1x magnification there called straight glass lol ) you actually get more fps while focused ..

 

Why because the game renders everything in the path of your view so in retracted view for the peripheral view it has to render far more as your cone of view is much wider so you would be dis advantaging yourself to remove it lol ...

Yah sorry thats what I mean, YES to keeping it

[slawterer (DayZ) 11]

The unrealistic thing here is actually the zoom OUT not in. If you go into Iron Sights you're looking at exactly the same zoom level as when you're fully zoomed in. The zoom out is necessary because in reality, you're eyes are not a square monitor. You have peripheral vision showing you things to either side which simply don't show up on a screen at normal 'zoom' levels for the human eye.

[over9000nukez 199]

If you can't see someone 200m away, your eyes are probably broken.

 

Translating the insane detail our eyes can capture into visual pixels is difficult. They can stretch and compress to focus on certain objects, changing your field of view and depth of field on the fly. We aren't quite at human eye quality yet, so Bohemia's solution was to add a narrowing of the field of view (like what happens when you focus on a distant object, only, you know, less complicated). There is no actual zooming, simply an on the fly adjustment of the FOV. I'm not kidding, go into the menu and play with the slider, its the same effect.

well from "not seeing someone from 200m away" I meant being able to tell weather its a zombie or not,

[over9000nukez 199]

while the gamma tweaking does my head in, everyone can use the variable FOV, I get the whole it represents the focusing with one eye in 2d, it's up to people to use it or not, just one of the other amazing player optimisations that you can use in this engine. it also really helps with fps as well as you limit so much what it has to render.

we're talking about holding right click and zooming in 2x with your eyes in hardcore, no human can do that.

[over9000nukez 199]

If you can't distinguish a silhouette from 200m away, you need some glasses or something.

 

The human eye is actually quite powerful.  Sure you wouldn't be able to say how tall someone was 800m away or their eye color or anything, but assuming there's nothing in the way, there's no chance you wouldn't see them and identify them as a person after focusing.(assume you have proper corrective vision)

 

As others have said due to limitations of FoV and draw distance and such, this was the compromise to allow us to see things as close to our actual eyes can do without tunneling out view.

by seeing someone from 200m away I ment telling if its a zombie or a human

[soulfirez 901]

well from "not seeing someone from 200m away" I meant being able to tell weather its a zombie or not,

Huh at 200m you would be able to tell by the movement of the human figure.. Maybe its because i hunt alot but visual ranges of movement and picking target go way further out than 200m....

 

Edit and the focus or zoom as you call it is actually 1x the unrealistic view is actually the retracted view or normal view and thats in to give peripheral view..

 

Seriously man you need to get your eyes checked...

 

Is it a perfect way of doing it no but with current tech its the only way ...

Edited February 23, 2014 by SoulFirez

[ParaB 114]

How did you wrap your head around that argument? Im stating that it IS zoom. Since well, it is. If there are 2 different views and its 1st person only, how is that not somehow a zoom? 

 

Its okay to not agree with me, thats good. But to just try to say I failed to read what was posted or even to comprehend the conversation here is another thing altogether. I get it.. people want it to stay, passionately. But I think in hardcore no second view at all would be beneficial. So there would be only one view. I care nothing about actual real life eyes here. I care about the concept of not having a "zoom" in hardcore for the naked eye. That sounds good to me. 

 

You fail to understand the issue again.

 

Please do some research about field of vision, screen resolutions and drawing distance in computer games.

[over9000nukez 199]

Devil... School circle. Take a seat. It is not zoom. If anything, normal view is like looking through binos backwards. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. When you right click it actually shows you normal life perspective. They just are taking into account peripheral vision in regular/non-zoomed view to make it easier to see the world.

in reality id say the zoom could be a "squint" if you really want to see 2x better with one button, should be more like x1.25 or something in hardcore.

[soulfirez 901]

in reality id say the zoom could be a "squint" if you really want to see 2x better with one button, should be more like x1.25 or something in hardcore.

where are you pulling 2x from if you use default FOV the zoom or focus is 1x ..

[over9000nukez 199]

Huh at 200m you would be able to tell by the movement of the human figure.. Maybe its because i hunt alot but visual ranges of movement and picking target go way further out than 200m....

 

Edit and the focus or zoom as you call it is actually 1x the unrealistic view is actually the retracted view or normal view and thats in to give peripheral view..

 

Seriously man you need to get your eyes checked...

 

Is it a perfect way of doing it no but with current tech its the only way ...

well I heard glasses IRL, I might be a little off with 200m, because I live in America and they haven't switched to using metric, and im pretty bad at telling distance, but say 200m is from the front of kamishovo to the end of kamishovo, with your normal eye your only see maybe a figure, you wont be able to say "oh, obviously a person" or you know look 400m-500m up a mountain, with your naked eye, and see someone in the woods running around, but in dayz you can go 2x zoom with your naked eye, so either your character is carrying a pair of hidden binos that only have x2 vision, or we have a pair of slightly weaker superman eyes.

 

I get all your arguments about our screen not really giving the human eye enough to look at, but heres the thing, find binos, gives you that zoom back, but like 16x more powerful, and I think we should have zoom, maybe not in hardcore as powerful, like in hardcore it should be maybe (saying the eye is x1 zoom) like 1.25x - 1.5x zoom when you hold right click down in hardcore.

 

and hardcore mimics more of this "you don't know until it happens" feel, where you are weaker then you are in third person, you can look over walls, or see things behind you, so in hardcore you only have first person perspective, and that's already more human, but we can still look on top of a hill from electro, and see EVERYONE in town from 600m+ running around.

 

I had to use a pair of binos IRL to see some birds eating at some feed I threw out there, and they were like 30m away, so what's a human going to look like 300m+ away?

[over9000nukez 199]

where are you pulling 2x from if you use default FOV the zoom or focus is 1x ..

im pulling the 2x view from the holding right click down and seeing something in the distance. im guessing twice as powerful? because I cant just crop a fourth of what my eye's seeing and look at it in a big picture, to see what's going on into the distance.

[Zoridium JackL 16]

we're talking about holding right click and zooming in 2x with your eyes in hardcore, no human can do that.

no human needs to do that.

 

the zoom in the game isn't there to be a zoom, in real life we have enough vision to easily see what we have to zoom in to see in the game, the zoom is there to more accurately reflect real life, as is the zoomed out state.

 

the zoomed out state gives more accurate peripheral vision, while the zoomed in state gives more accurate focused vision. in real life you can plainly see what you have to zoom in to see in dayZ, you can also plainly see at the same time the things around it like you can when you're zoomed out. zooming is just the technical term for the action, what it reflects in real life is just two parts of human vision, the reason they have to be separated in the game is because with current technology you can't realistically simulate both at the same time (or at all really, but we can get close enough).

 

removing the zoom makes the game less realistic because when you're unzoomed you see drastically less detail then what you'd see if it were real life, and removing the un-zoomed would also be less realistic because you'd see drastically less by volume then you would in real life. both levels of zoom serve a purpose to realism, and by removeing one or the other you are just making the game less realistic.

 

and in real life if you couldn't differentiate between a man and a zombie at 200m you'd need some serious ocular assistance, like glasses or surgery.

 

as someone who actually has to wear glasses because I have a hard time seeing details at a distance, the zoom function practically simulates what I see with and without my glasses (except I see just as much area when I have my glasses on as I do when they're off, so it's not exactly the same).

[soulfirez 901]

he will look like a human at range i can bloody shoot roos (kangaroos) at 250 plus meters with an unscoped 308 i have never mistook a human for a roo at those ranges and further more i can tell a guy injured at that range( my mate twisted his ankle i knew long before he got to me roughly what he had done by his movement...

 

I play hardcore/1pp only and see the focus view/zoom as the only way they can replicate real vision.. i am sorry your pulling magnification levels out of your butt....

 

It may be 2x the retracted view because that view has been brought back to give peripheral view but when you have focused or zoomed as you call it its actually normal range vision...

 

What you want is to have everyone nerfed as if they suffer short sightedness ( some people do suffer it ) but if you have 20/20 vision which thankfully at 40 i still dothe focus is fine...

[over9000nukez 199]

no human needs to do that.

 

 

the zoomed out state gives more accurate peripheral vision, while the zoomed in state gives more accurate focused vision. in real life you can plainly see what you have to zoom in to see in dayZ, you can also plainly see at the same time the things around it like you can when you're zoomed out. zooming is just the technical term for the action, what it reflects in real life is just two parts of human vision, the reason they have to be separated in the game is because with current technology you can't realistically simulate both at the same time (or at all really, but we can get close enough).

 

removing the zoom makes the game less realistic because when you're unzoomed you see drastically less detail then what you'd see if it were real life, and removing the un-zoomed would also be less realistic because you'd see drastically less by volume then you would in real life. both levels of zoom serve a purpose to realism, and by removeing one or the other you are just making the game less realistic.

 

and in real life if you couldn't differentiate between a man and a zombie at 200m you'd need some serious ocular assistance, like glasses or surgery.

 

 

I was thinking we should have less zoom , like an eye squint, like x1.25 - x1.5 when you hold right click. the game is super easy when you have this invisible binos ready to go.

[louist 163]

For those complaining: just set the "zoomed" view as default, and have right like pull the camera back. Now you can actively "scan your surroundings," and have no need to complain about what is, in reality, a mechanism designed to counter the game's inability to replicate human sight. Now you can stop getting hung up on the term "zoom."

Problem solved.

[Zoridium JackL 16]

 

I had to use a pair of binos IRL to see some birds eating at some feed I threw out there, and they were like 30m away, so what's a human going to look like 300m+ away?

 

get your eyes checked, if you can't make out a bird at 30m then you have some serious issues bro

 

im pulling the 2x view from the holding right click down and seeing something in the distance. im guessing twice as powerful? because I cant just crop a fourth of what my eye's seeing and look at it in a big picture, to see what's going on into the distance.

 

you're error is in thinking that you're zooming in at all, the base state is zoomed out, they just can't show more then "a fourth" of what we'd normally see accurately due to technical limitations, hence why we default to a zoomed out perspective, so that we can have a sort of peripheral vision, while still having the more accurate level of detail that the "zoom" provides.