Team Speak

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

Ok, this is a heated topic and I can see both sides of the argument.

 

"Using TS the way I've have played online MP games for ever, so why should I have to change for DayZ?"

 

That's a perfectly legitimate question.

Now let me try and explain why I think TP is exactly the same as using 3PP or turning up the gamma at night.

But at the same time is the only real way to communicate with friends in game.

 

Now how is TS the same as gamma cheating or wall hacking?

Well, IMO, it's because using any outside form of communication is side stepping the games mechanics that are given to you to make the game experience as equal and as realistic as possible.

 

"hear me out before you bite my head off!, I explain why TP is necessary to communicate in large groups atm,  Im just trying to look at it from both sides"

 

The way radios are set up are brilliant!

They work the same as you would use TP.

For those who don't know how to use them in game let me explain the mechanics.

 

1st, find a "walkie talkie" 

2nd, put a battery in it.

3rd, find a channel that you want to use, (lots to choose from)

4th, use "<" and ">" to change your in game chat to the channel you choose.

 

Now comes the tricky bit that IMO makes using walkis talkies only as a way of communication between friends broken.

 

"How to I let my friend that just spawned somewhere what radio frequency I'm on and where I am?"

 

Thats the problem with walkie talkies atm, and until we can resole this I don't think using WT's as the ONLY way of communication is working right now.

 

"How do we find a solution to this?"

 

I've heard of people suggesting friends being able to spawn in together, but only as fresh spawns.

That's not a bad idea, but what if you want to group up with 6 friends?

 

There lies another road block for the WT only solution.

As the game is right now, using WT only is broken.

There is no way of using only the games mechanics to find a group of friends and communicate with WT only.

 

The only way for it to work would be to message each other through Steam and let each other know where you are so you can find a radio and meet up.

But that's the same as using TS, so that's not a solution at all.

 

IMO, using WT is a great idea to promote realism and fun gameplay.

It would be so cool to be wandering in the forest and all of a sudden hear a group of people taking in the distance, letting you follow at a distance and stalk them to see if they are a threat or if they have supplies you need to survive.

 

That kind of gamplay and immersion is what DayZ is all about and I completely understand why some want TP gone and walkie talkies to be the standard in communication in DayZ.

But....from everything I've said here you can clearly see the problem with not using TS when playing with friends.

 

I mean I too hate it when I'm using TS with my group and we come across a survivor that ends up roaming with us and my friends refuse to use in game chat to talk to him/her so it kills the experience for him/her when I'm the only one he/she can hear.

 

So whats the solution?

 

I honestly don't see one in sight. I mean how can the devs add a mechanic that allows a group of people to spawn together?

Unless there was some sort of group survival option at the beginning of the game.

Like possibly picking a scenario from the start, like:

 

Scenario 1: You are a lone survivor of a horrific ship crash and you wash up on the beach all alone....or so you think? - (same as you start out now)

 

Scenario 2: You and your mates where in a horrific ship crash that washed you all up on the shore and you have no clue where you are, you all need to work together to survive.  - This is the group survivor option. Now you are all within speaking distance so you can all use the in game mechanics to communicate until you all find walkie talkies, then you can communicate over large distances.

 

There could be more scenario's in the future but Im just covering group play and a way to communicate with a large group without using TP.

I myself wish there was a solution to this but the way the game is now, there is no real way to only use walkie talkies to communicate.

 

I suggest you all give them a try. Once you and your group all find walkie talkies give it a try, it's actually better than TS in some ways.

Think about it, you are in a large squad and you want to talk to just one other person but your buddies are all talking over each other,

you and him/her can just switch to another channel and talk quietly while your friends are talking on another channel. When done just switch back!

 

Having to think about being quiet and not giving away your location from talking would add an awesome element to DayZ IMO.

But until there is a way to group up without using any outside form of communication, walkie talkies are just a cool thing to have in game.

 

 

EDIT:

I never meant to imply that anyone that uses TS is a cheater, I myself use it all the time.

 

I was trying to explain that the way the game mechanics are currently using walkie talkies as the only form of communication is broken

and to be able to locate someone is not possible without outside communication like TS and that TS is an important tool in DayZ when playing with friends.

 

At the same time explaining how important it is to the people looking at it from a role playing/realism perspective that know how

amazing this game would be if everyone could somehow all be using the in game chat system and mechanics to communicate,

because it would add a lot of different factors of survival into the game.

Which is true and why I was explaining how you cant find anyone without TS, so until something comes along that allows

players to spawn together like my scenario suggestion (just an idea) so that players can communicate with each other realistically from the start,

​TS is necessary to use when playing with friends. 

Edited February 10, 2014 by TEST_SUBJECT_83

[KnightFall1856 24]

I support your enthusiasm for keeping the realism of the game as authentic as possible, but I don't think anything like this will ever stop players from using VOIP.

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

But if I'm not in teamspeak, no one can get a hold of me..

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

But if I'm not in teamspeak, no one can get a hold of me..

 

I support your enthusiasm for keeping the realism of the game as authentic as possible, but I don't think anything like this will ever stop players from using VOIP.

 

 

Did you guys read my post?

I agree with you both.

Im looking at it from both side and trying explain why both side are right, but the way the game mechanics are TP is the only way to communicate with your friends.

Using some kind of outside communication first is the only way to use the walkie talkies.

Edited February 10, 2014 by TEST_SUBJECT_83

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You can still be in teamspeak, just don't use it for dayz.

 

It's like having the gamma setting in the options, but not turning it all the way up.

Edited February 10, 2014 by bad_mojo

[cj14 189]

I fucking hate TS

[Element47 2480]

came here to armchair-moderate topic redundancy, now steaks all ruined it...

 

 

 

 

 

my 2ct: the topic of pro/contra is IMHO pointless, because i - and many other i know and play with - are on TS to be able to communicate with people ingame and people who are not playing at the same time - the moments where it is deemed exploitable - for combat comms, is maybe 1% of my game time and thus irrelevant for me

 

edit:

Now how is TS the same as gamma cheating or wall hacking?

Well, IMO, it's because using any outside form of communication is side stepping the games mechanics that are given to you to make the game experience as equal and as realistic as possible.

 

i disagree. its metagaming - its the same as finding a playing partner, a trade or a medic on the forums. its the same as finding out about what weapons were added in the patchnotes instead of being surprised when finding them ingame. its the same as being in a clan, instead of finding new friends to play with through the game - every life anew

Edited February 10, 2014 by e47

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

came here to armchair-moderate topic redundancy, now steaks all ruined it...

 

 

Yes this topic has been done to death, but instead of just complain and look at it one sided, 

I was trying to lay it out in a way that shows people that are so against TP that the game currently doesn't support group communication without using some form of outside communication first.

 

You do know the response you just gave me is as redundant as the point you were tying to make.

Edited February 10, 2014 by TEST_SUBJECT_83

[Element47 2480]

You do know the response you just gave me is as redundant as the point you were tying to make.

 

you mean the fact that ingame voip will always be insufficient, because it lacks the ability to communicate with people who are not in the game?

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

you mean the fact that ingame voip will always be insufficient, because it lacks the ability to communicate with people who are not in the game?

I agree with you!!!

Did you read my post?

Im just seeing it from both sides.

 

I myself hate TP in DayZ, but I completely understand that the way the game mechanics currently are, TP IS necessary. 

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

came here to armchair-moderate topic redundancy, now steaks all ruined it...

 

 

 

 

 

my 2ct: the topic of pro/contra is IMHO pointless, because i - and many other i know and play with - are on TS to be able to communicate with people ingame and people who are not playing at the same time - the moments where it is deemed exploitable - for combat comms, is maybe 1% of my game time and thus irrelevant for me

 

edit:

 

 

i disagree. its metagaming - its the same as finding a playing partner, a trade or a medic on the forums. its the same as finding out about what weapons were added in the patchnotes instead of being surprised when finding them ingame. its the same as being in a clan, instead of finding new friends to play with through the game - every life anew

 

I agree.

 

Im laying out both side of the argument.

Edited February 10, 2014 by TEST_SUBJECT_83

[Element47 2480]

I agree with you!!!

Did you read my post?

Im just seeing it from both sides.

 

I myself hate TP in DayZ, but I completely understand that the way the game mechanics currently are, TP IS necessary. 

 

 

 

the game mechanics cannot - by definition - by ever adequate:

 

on an average evening, i sit in my study, play DayZ and derail threads on the dayz forums in between switchign servers, my wife sits in the living room and plays hearthstone, two or three of my friends living on the other side of the country are playing some game together, and we all talk together on my teamspeak. at the same time i have the TMW teamspeak open in another tab, sitting there in a "poke me if needed" channel so i can react if one of my friends there requires my attention.

 

now tell me how any mechanic in DayZ could substitute this

Edited February 10, 2014 by e47

[savini 587]

I hear you where you're coming from and I see what you mean. I am not sure how to go about making adjustments to the system, but I think you're on the right track. I just made a post in a separate "TS" thread so hopefully I'm not breaking any rules by reposting, but this is where I stand on the matter of third party comms.

 

"Personally, and by that I mean this is my own personal opinion, I am not a fan of third party voice chat. Well...let me specify further.

I am not a fan of using third party comms or text being used to communicate when it is game related. That's not to say I mind it being used to find friends or if new players need some answers. That's also not to say that I haven't used third party comms before, I have.

However, in my opinion again, I would prefer to see walkies and radios be used as the default means of long range comms. In which case you would be taking a risk by using the radio. Be if from being heard by zeds, or worse, other players.

It's not a huge deal by any means. There are tons of other things I'd like to see implemented first.

In the end though, it's most likely impossible to enforce a "no third party comms" and we will all have to live with it for better or worse.

Again, these are the thoughts of one man who is mostly insignificant to the dev process.

My two cents."

 

Like I said, I think you're on the right track and hopefully there will come a solution that makes most people happy.

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

 

now tell me how any mechanic in DayZ could substitute this

 

I give up!

 

There isnt! thats my point!

 

This whole post is me trying to explain to people that hate TP why people want in game mechanics to be the only way to communicate,

and to the people that don't want it why it IS necessary to play with a group and how currently there is no way to spawn, locate, and communicate with multiple players.

 without TS

[Gerandar 212]

make TS/vent/mumble also turn on my in game VOIP, I'll just connect to it via my laptop while I play DayZ on my desktop. not gonna stop me from getting an advantage :D

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

the game mechanics cannot - by definition - by ever adequate:

 

on an average evening, i sit in my study, play DayZ and derail threads on the dayz forums in between switchign servers, my wife sits in the living room and plays hearthstone, two or three of my friends living on the other side of the country are playing some game together, and we all talk together on my teamspeak. at the same time i have the TMW teamspeak open in another tab, sitting there in a "poke me if needed" channel so i can react if one of my friends there requires my attention.

 

now tell me how any mechanic in DayZ could substitute this

 

Why should the mechanic substitute it? That's what you are doing in real life, it has nothing to do with DayZ or the world it is trying to portray.

 

But, when someone is in-game with a group of 10 people and they all run around communicating without making so much as a peep in-game, that's lame. They use teamspeak to circumvent the vulnerability.

 

I'm not saying this should (or could) be blocked. I'm just saying the attitude towards this discussion should be different. People jump all over these threads with examples of how teamspeak can be used in good ways, it's almost the same as saying there's no wrong way to use it.

 

You can be in teamspeak and still use direct chat & walkie talkies.

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

I hear you where you're coming from and I see what you mean. I am not sure how to go about making adjustments to the system, but I think you're on the right track. I just made a post in a separate "TS" thread so hopefully I'm not breaking any rules by reposting, but this is where I stand on the matter of third party comms.

 

"Personally, and by that I mean this is my own personal opinion, I am not a fan of third party voice chat. Well...let me specify further.

I am not a fan of using third party comms or text being used to communicate when it is game related. That's not to say I mind it being used to find friends or if new players need some answers. That's also not to say that I haven't used third party comms before, I have.

However, in my opinion again, I would prefer to see walkies and radios be used as the default means of long range comms. In which case you would be taking a risk by using the radio. Be if from being heard by zeds, or worse, other players.

It's not a huge deal by any means. There are tons of other things I'd like to see implemented first.

In the end though, it's most likely impossible to enforce a "no third party comms" and we will all have to live with it for better or worse.

Again, these are the thoughts of one man who is mostly insignificant to the dev process.

My two cents."

 

Like I said, I think you're on the right track and hopefully there will come a solution that makes most people happy.

Well said! :)

[shadowless_m3rk 2]

I just think if you are on team speak people in your vicinity should be able to hear you.you can't really remove it completely , people will just call each other on speakerphone. You shouldn't be able to discuss betraying a player telepathically while two feet away from him, or tell you're team to flank while within earshot of the enemy. You can't really stop people either way though so I suppose its a lost cause

[doctorrayray 76]

For me and my group, TS is 98% bullish and the rest it actually coordinating.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You shouldn't be able to discuss betraying a player telepathically while two feet away from him

 

Exactly, I have to go back to early on in the mod and reference some CHKilroy videos where he was trying to hint to a friend that he should kill the guy they were with. It brought in a whole other interesting social aspect of having to read between the lines and know each other good enough to get the message across without actually saying it.

 

It didn't work out for Kilroy but the fact that he was attempting it really interested me in DayZ. I certainly wouldn't be here today if it weren't for those videos.

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

I just think if you are on team speak people in your vicinity should be able to hear you.you can't really remove it completely , people will just call each other on speakerphone. You shouldn't be able to discuss betraying a player telepathically while two feet away from him, or tell you're team to flank while within earshot of the enemy. You can't really stop people either way though so I suppose its a lost cause

 

I just wish people would hit "Caps Lock" more.

You can use both at once, it's just no one does.

 

It's just like the gamma exploit.

Some people want to play at night legitimately but they dont want to be seen by gamma exploiters,

so they turn up the gamma themselves to be at a level playing field.

 

With chat people dont want to be loud and be heard talking so they use TS all the time.

 

If we could use TS for people not in gameonly and "Caps" for in game then it would be fine, but C'mon in game sounds like shit compared to TS,

so I can easily see why no one does.

So I guess your right, it just may be a lost cause, just like SH, and CL.

Edited February 10, 2014 by TEST_SUBJECT_83

[Element47 2480]

Why should the mechanic substitute it? That's what you are doing in real life, it has nothing to do with DayZ or the world it is trying to portray.

 

But, when someone is in-game with a group of 10 people and they all run around communicating without making so much as a peep in-game, that's lame. They use teamspeak to circumvent the vulnerability.

 

I'm not saying this should (or could) be blocked. I'm just saying the attitude towards this discussion should be different. People jump all over these threads with examples of how teamspeak can be used in good ways, it's almost the same as saying there's no wrong way to use it.

 

You can be in teamspeak and still use direct chat & walkie talkies.

 

i was directing this at TEST_SUBJECTs "the way the game mechanics currently are, TP IS necessary."

 

the discussion is tainted.

my point is that out-of-game communication of a team in tactical combat has a negligible impact in dayz, a game in which real, tactical team-vs-team play constitutes only a small percentage of the overall gameplay.

and i take issue at denouncing everyone who uses 3rd party voip as cheaters, because thats insulting and inappropriate.

 

I just think if you are on team speak people in your vicinity should be able to hear you.

you want to listen in while a quarrel with my wife who is playing hearthstone? tsk...

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

i was directing this at TEST_SUBJECTs "the way the game mechanics currently are, TP IS necessary."

 

the discussion is tainted.

my point is that out-of-game communication of a team in tactical combat has a negligible impact in dayz, a game in which real, tactical team-vs-team play constitutes only a small percentage of the overall gameplay.

and i take issue at denouncing everyone who uses 3rd party voip as cheaters, because thats insulting and inappropriate.

 

 

you want to listen in while a quarrel with my wife who is playing hearthstone? tsk...

I never meant to imply that anyone that uses TS is a cheater, I myself use it all the time.

 

I was trying to explain that the way the game mechanics are currently using walkie talkies as the only form of communication is broken

and to be able to locate someone is not possible without outside communication like TS and that TS is an important tool in DayZ when playing with friends.

 

At the same time explaining how important it is to the people looking at it from a role playing/realism perspective that know how

amazing this game would be if everyone could somehow all be using the in game chat system and mechanics to communicate, because it would add a lot of different factors of survival into the game. Which is true and why I was explaining how you cant find anyone without TS

so until something comes along that allows players to spawn together like my scenario suggestion (just an idea) so that players can communicate with each other realistically from the start,TS is necessary to use when playing with friends. 

Edited February 10, 2014 by TEST_SUBJECT_83

[mgc 92]

If you know where your friend will spawn, roleplay can do the rest. Perhaps giving the player some control over his spawn location would be helpfull. That way u have a general idea where to be looking for him. Maybe risk shouting his name a few times in direct comms once you are in the area?  lol

 

I think all third party comms should be severely frowned upon in dayz. Its ,imo, comparable to ghosting.

[Judopunch 523]

Thematically and game wise I agree. However there is nothing you can do about it. There is already a huge thread with a lot of discussion on this subject. You havent covered any new ground with this post.