Degrading Skills and Books

[Karmaterror 982]

OK this is a skills suggestion, lot of debate about it at the moment and i thought maybe there could be a twist to it.

 

The basic idea is that you there would be lots and lots of different skills, These wouldn't effect any physical attributes but effect the degree you can interact with the world around you.  

 

Gaining a Skill

 

Gaining a skill would be done trough studying a book you found. This would take having the book open in game for at least 30mins.  It wouldnt have to be all done in one go either. 5mins here 5 mins there would build the skill...see below.

 

Skill Degridation

 

Once you read the book the skill will show up in your inventory in a new tab. It could either have each skill in green like the hunger, and have it slowly fade to red, then disappear. Or have 2 lists, one listing the skill one titled something like "retention". Retention is how much of what you read you remember.

 

Here's the twist with this idea, Each skill would slowly degrade over the course of 1 week. I carn't decide weather that should apply even if you aren't logged in, but im leaning that way. That gives you a reward for surviving but maintains you having to loot and care for your character.

 

If there were books for pretty much everything then your "knowledge" inventory tab, for want of a better word would be a living breathing thing. Constantly loosing knowledge over time, and having to "brush up" on a subject all the time.

 

Loosing a Skill

 

With something like this you could actually forget how to do things, and maybe you lent the book to a friend because its rare. Now you need to loot another or wait your turn. 

 

There could be a prompt like the food system, "I carnt remember how to do this"

 

Conclusion

 

In conclusion I think having them degrade could add skills to Dayz in a way that holds true to the survival type nature of the game.  It would give a reward for surviving a long time as your knowledge grew, but keep you constantly hungry for more. All the time struggling, along trying to remember everything you already learned. 

 

People could post screenshots comparing survivors brain power....aswell as the gear they carry :) 

[Spiderdude20 32]

Unlike most people, I am all for adding skills into the game. Note I said skills, not skilltrees. Now, back to the topic.

 

I love the idea of skill degredation, and it makes your character feel more like a real person. But maybe instead of the skills showing up in a new tab, maybe have it shown through a characters actions. Here's an example. Lets say you need to cook up some food. This also goes a bit into crafting, but we're focusing on the skills. You have the food required to make a dish, but your character never cooked anything before. So it might take longer for them to cook, or the end result would end up being burnt or undesirable. But through that experience, they gain a little bit more knowledge, and as they continue to cook, or even read books on cooking more and more, they get progressivly better at it, and you would see it through their actions.

 

Now for skills on actually finding the said foods or materials, that would be handled by player skills. Players skills are pretty explanitory. Can you shoot well in other games? Yes? Then you can shoot well here. Can you drive well in other games? No? Then prepare to crash, over and over and over etc etc. For gathering materials, you can learn about the necessary components from books, like what an item looks like, what it's used in, and where you can usually find it. Even if you the player don't have this knowledge, you can still look for and pick up the items like you would anything else in the world.

 

As for the rest, I like the concept of loosing skills if you forget them, or you don't have a certain book to help you, or you forgot to jot down notes and the like. But to add to this. If you die, you lose EVERYTHING. All of your skills, items, everything, GONE! You'll have to start all, over, again.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

This is honestly the best argument for "skills" I've seen. Needs some work but in my honest opinion , if the ability to be better than others at something because of practice comes into the game I wouldn't mind . Cuz if you think about it the feel of this game is that everyone's equal , and that everyone virtually knows how to do anything without practice (cooking , repairing cars, building stuff when it comes in ) so the room for improvement doesn't exist . Literally.

Which is why people say "oh well add base building " well that only goes for another year or so then people start to get bored and make mods . But with some type of "learn and get better " skill system I think we could really make this game fresh and unique , and still very realistic .

Don't get me wrong i HATE the idea of leveled skills that stay the same in a survival game ( and personally i think we need to start calling them HOBBYS) but it is true that in real life if my buddy practices fixing engines he WILL be better than me , but that's not true for the game , in the game im not only a mechanic , but apparently an amazing shot as well with no practice whatso ever . There's no way to have an advantage over anybody when you're both equally matched combat wise, unless you have the best Loot or the most friends, with this system you could have value in your group for being a mechanic or a great gun repairer , and anyone can do it so every one is still "equal"! (Also with this idea you would never have to restart your character If you wanted to be better at another skill , just stop practicing that skill and start another , and eventually the first skill you had practiced will deteriorate)

In a game with so much realism I believe it should eventually adapt a " do and learn " system like this, it could only further advance the complexity of survivalism in this game ( if your car breaks down and you and your buddy haven't repaired a car yet , you can expect to have troubles putting in a new engine maybe even destroying an engine on the first try) but it has to have skill degradation or else people would just grind hard to reach max level at all the possible "hobbies " and then be overpowered compared to the rest .

And about fresh spawns compared to someone with a reasonable amount of "learned hobbys" : there would be no sizable difference in how they attack so somebody who practices their hobbies every day won't be able to kill someone without any "learned hobbys" easier . So if you're wondering if we think these "skills" (hobbys) should involve increasing accuracy strength speed , the answer is NO and for obvious reasons , but give this idea a thought the only learnable hobbys / skills would have to do with non combatant things like cooking food starting fires repairing cars / guns . Sorry for the length ;)

Edited February 10, 2014 by Grapefruit kush

[savini 587]

I have always been one of those guys that were against skills.

 

But some of the things you describe are making me rethink my stance.

 

I still think that "accuracy, speed" and things kush said should be left alone, but as far as survival skills...I think something like that could work. Maybe a faster cook speed, or better quality meals from reading a "cookbook".

 

The only thing I would disagree with is the "skill degradation" bit. I would argue that once you learn how to start a fire then it's a bit hard to forget. Like riding a bike...if that makes sense. Maybe I misinterpreted how you meant. I guess degradation would occur when it involves a complex task, such as car repair. I can dig that.

 

I'd also like to toss an extra thought in if I may. If such a system were implemented we could allow for fresh spawns to start with certain skills. So that there is still a bit of an even playing field.

 

I'm for a skill system that is passive and doesn't give a major advantage to anyone. By that I mean if you compare a fresh spawn to a "vet" (under a skill system) the difference between the two would be miniscule. So that we're all still on a level playing field...but I think a lot of us are on the same page.

 

Anyway, that's just me.

 

Cheers!

[Nurrvillian 23]

I am going to try to make mine as short as possible but i will start with brilliant! Degradation is the best idea for a skill set that i have ever heard for a MMO no  more grinding to the max level and destroying fresh spawns and the main point that you all make is that these skills only relate to survival and not to combat, This would be the main point of attraction because no body would want to spawn into a server with anyone else if you had no "skills" to kill people from the start and there was 24 other fully established survivors running around with advanced knowledge of combat situations.

 

I do think that they need to have a meaningful use for books in the game and that would be the most logical purpose, however i don't think that there should be some rare books only books that you have to read for longer periods of time to increase the "skill" level. My reason for this being a rare book containing specialized skills would only encourage greed and self buffing knowing that if you don't die (which you wont because you have specialized survival skills inaccessible to other players because you have the rare book) not many other players could possibly kill you because you wont have to loot as much or go as far to collect your supplies.

 

So think of it this way you when there is some form of base (not necessarily building just a tent will do) you collect books store them in your base hidden away you can always brush up on the knowledge that you're starting to forget so i propose that maybe the system would incorporate a way to stop this maybe something like cramming a skill in a single session would cause you to retain less information or trying to learn more than say 4 single survival skills in a week would cause you to get some of the information crossed over between the skills resulting in mistakes being made and the end result being less than the value of the current "skill" level. This way you could still retain alot of information by hoarding books but it would take you very long time because you would have to learn each skill slowly through the day and NOT LEARN more thank 4 skills a week meaning you could brush up on others but only a tiny little bit at a time "in theory making it nearly impossibly to keep up with the brush up of knowledge beacause you cant cram or read too much in one week.

I know isaid i'd try to make this short so sorry guys hope you like my idea on it

[Karmaterror 982]

 

As for the rest, I like the concept of loosing skills if you forget them, or you don't have a certain book to help you, or you forgot to jot down notes and the like. But to add to this. If you die, you lose EVERYTHING. All of your skills, items, everything, GONE! You'll have to start all, over, again.

 

Agree completely, this knowledge stuff would go strait away if you die and you start with a fresh dumb survivor :)

 

 

 

The only thing I would disagree with is the "skill degradation" bit. I would argue that once you learn how to start a fire then it's a bit hard to forget. Like riding a bike...if that makes sense. Maybe I misinterpreted how you meant. I guess degradation would occur when it involves a complex task, such as car repair. I can dig that.

 

 

You got a point there. Maybe some of the skills could degrade much slower than others. Or have a small set that once you learn you never forget. We could have a "Rockets survival basics" book that once studied gives you a really simple set of knowledge you carnt loose. But more complex things like studying a helicopter repair manual would degrade quicker because its much more complex :)

 

 

I am going to try to make mine as short as possible but i will start with brilliant! Degradation is the best idea for a skill set that i have ever heard for a MMO no  more grinding to the max level and destroying fresh spawns and the main point that you all make is that these skills only relate to survival and not to combat, This would be the main point of attraction because no body would want to spawn into a server with anyone else if you had no "skills" to kill people from the start and there was 24 other fully established survivors running around with advanced knowledge of combat situations.

 

I do think that they need to have a meaningful use for books in the game and that would be the most logical purpose, however i don't think that there should be some rare books only books that you have to read for longer periods of time to increase the "skill" level. My reason for this being a rare book containing specialized skills would only encourage greed and self buffing knowing that if you don't die (which you wont because you have specialized survival skills inaccessible to other players because you have the rare book) not many other players could possibly kill you because you wont have to loot as much or go as far to collect your supplies.

 

So think of it this way you when there is some form of base (not necessarily building just a tent will do) you collect books store them in your base hidden away you can always brush up on the knowledge that you're starting to forget so i propose that maybe the system would incorporate a way to stop this maybe something like cramming a skill in a single session would cause you to retain less information or trying to learn more than say 4 single survival skills in a week would cause you to get some of the information crossed over between the skills resulting in mistakes being made and the end result being less than the value of the current "skill" level. This way you could still retain alot of information by hoarding books but it would take you very long time because you would have to learn each skill slowly through the day and NOT LEARN more thank 4 skills a week meaning you could brush up on others but only a tiny little bit at a time "in theory making it nearly impossibly to keep up with the brush up of knowledge beacause you cant cram or read too much in one week.

I know isaid i'd try to make this short so sorry guys hope you like my idea on it

 

Some great ideas there. I like restricting how much you can learn per week. Maybe just pin it at you can study one subject every day. Then play with the degridation values to make it harder to retain that knowledge. Keeping us behind the degridation and having to brush up all the time would be brilliant aswell :)

[rickenbacker 190]

The only skills that should be important in DayZ are player skills, not character skills. 

[Spiderdude20 32]

The only skills that should be important in DayZ are player skills, not character skills. 

Why do you think that should be? It would be awesome to be able to apply player skill to physically repairing a weapon, or cooking food, or fixing an engine, but I don't see it happening unless you make them into mini games or something.

[Karmaterror 982]

The only skills that should be important in DayZ are player skills, not character skills. 

 

Thats why im suggesting these skills only effect how much you can intereract with the world. They wouldn't change your accuracy or run speed, that would all be done by your personal skill and your gear. This would be like learning better recepies, or learning to fix a car. Then you slowly forget it over time. :)

[elLoCo 154]

Karmaterror, it seems we're now getting to a point!

 

Keeping your skill 'alive' is the way it should go, I'm totally for this!

 

But once learned you should be able to maintain it theoreticallly and practically.

I agree there are abilities that are more of a physical nature and there are some that need brains. So not to become overcomplicated you should be able to do it vice versa

[Karmaterror 982]

Karmaterror, it seems we're now getting to a point!

 

Keeping your skill 'alive' is the way it should go, I'm totally for this!

 

But once learned you should be able to maintain it theoreticallly and practically.

I agree there are abilities that are more of a physical nature and there are some that need brains. So not to become overcomplicated you should be able to do it vice versa

 

I like that. Sort of maintain retention through performing the task you learned from the book. Have some beans :)

[dangitman 7]

Hi. new here.

 

I like the concept of skills as discussed here. I'll just cut to the point though.

 

I see 3 differant skill types

 

1. Inherent skills. Those that we have learned up to that point where we spawn fresh.

2. Developed skills. Those that we pick up on naturaly over time through perhaps trial and error.

3. Learned or studied skills. Those that we must have a resource for before being able to learn.

 

A simple example:

1. Inherent skill. Walking, running, jumping...

2. Developed skill. Walking silently, running without hitting objects or over rough terain, jumping over obsticals without falling...

3. Learned skill. Walking without leaving a trace of being there(covering your tracks), running and evading hostiles, when jumping how to land in a proper role or tuck.

 

Thanks for listening.

[Karmaterror 982]

Hi. new here.

 

I like the concept of skills as discussed here. I'll just cut to the point though.

 

I see 3 differant skill types

 

1. Inherent skills. Those that we have learned up to that point where we spawn fresh.

2. Developed skills. Those that we pick up on naturaly over time through perhaps trial and error.

3. Learned or studied skills. Those that we must have a resource for before being able to learn.

 

A simple example:

1. Inherent skill. Walking, running, jumping...

2. Developed skill. Walking silently, running without hitting objects or over rough terain, jumping over obsticals without falling...

3. Learned skill. Walking without leaving a trace of being there(covering your tracks), running and evading hostiles, when jumping how to land in a proper role or tuck.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Hey welcome to the forums :)

 

 

I agree with the way you have classed the skills. With this idea i think that the Inherent and developed skills should be managed by the gear you carry. That way it keeps it level for all players. 

 

The learned skills are what I think should degrade and need to be maintained. That way we are only limiting what someone can do in the world, like can I fix a car or can I make this dish on a cooker. If skills effected things like accuracy or run speed then the stronger characters would just get stronger leaving the weak no way to fight back :)

Edited February 10, 2014 by Karmaterror

[Karmaterror 982]

Cheeky bump.....as I have no new ideas but wouldn't mind discussing this one a bit more :)

 

Iv changed my thinking on it a bit, I now think the skills shouldn't even be visible to the player. Then its a player skill to remember what they have, or have not studied :)