Don't listen to the casual gamers

[droznig 20]

I'd like to see this game keep a high difficulty level.

Basically just don't listen to most of the suggestions in the suggestions thread because most of those people just want cheats.

Less special needs orientated game would be refreshing.

[super pretendo 2]

real hardcore games like this are few and far between. So I definitely fear that the integrity of this game and everything that makes it good will be compromised once it really takes off. But I think rocket has a lot of sense, so that makes me not too worried

[oktyabr 53]

I'd like to see this game keep a high difficulty level.

Basically just don't listen to most of the suggestions in the suggestions thread because most of those people just want cheats.

Less special needs orientated game would be refreshing.

Be sure to check out the "hardcore" servers then.

[masacrualex 6]

most suggestions I see will surely not make it through, they are thought from one's perspective and not the whole community, not to mention some are ridiculous.

[Capital 5]

I'd like to see this game keep a high difficulty level.

Basically just don't listen to most of the suggestions in the suggestions thread because most of those people just want cheats.

Less special needs orientated game would be refreshing.

Be sure to check out the "hardcore" servers then.

Most hardcore servers I've seen play on regular difficulty, which is no fun. I guess you can turn off cross-hair (lame) third-person (super-lame) and nametags (super-duper lame) in regular mode but can't you still take more bullets to the chest? I'd like to see these (or, the lackthereof) become features rather than options.

Cross-hairs are just unnecessary, and get in the way. Use your iron-sights and give yourself a small amount of weapon free-move.

Third-person, aside from being just a vanity view, is not well implemented. It also gives people a major advantage in firefights: corner-looking. You can camp a corner and see if someone's coming without leaning out and exposing yourself. I hope the final game is first-person only.

Last, the name-tags are obviously terrible, you can spot people from 500m on the horizon without actually seeing them. In a game like this, it ruins the ever-present fear and makes things way too easy.

Here's hoping all these things are gone by the official release.

In other words, I agree with the OP: don't listen to casuals. The game is already popular enough in its Alpha stage! We don't need to hand-hold any care-bears.

[alphapotato 1]

Alpha stage and this community already has an elite group? Because as we know, casual only suggest garbage and l33t shits pure gold.

How about : Please don't listen to garbage suggestion, wether or not it comes from a casual or a hardcore player.

I'm a casual and I like how hard that game is. But I won't mind if some changes create a different gameplay.

[oktyabr 53]

Who is this actually being suggested to? And why did I leave it in the suggestion forum in the first place? Moved.

[Zarathustra (DayZ) 87]

The name-tags are what really really bother me. If I see name-tags I disconnect immediately. I wish we check stuff like this before we join servers.

Seriously, name-tags that appear when you wave your cursor over a (more or less invisible) person 100's of meters away in a bush? I can't get over how awful this is. Who on earth actually wants this? How about aim-assists? And flat bullet trajectory? And no recoil? And a 'press 'x' to initiate third-person bullet-cam kill feature'?

Incidentally, I feel it's the American servers which are the worst offenders. I haven't noticed any loltags on the Euro servers.

[-=Grunt=- (DayZ) 0]

but can't you still take more bullets to the chest?

Nope. Difficulty setting doesn't change weapon damage or player health in ArmA 2. It only changes 3rd person, crosshair, units-on-map thing, etc. (Experience from playing ArmA 2 for about 3 years now)

It's due to the blood system having issues with PvP I believe. When it's only supposed to take 1 bullet to the chest, it takes 2-8. The M4A1 for example, takes 2 bullets to the chest to kill an AI or player at close range, but in DayZ, due to the blood system... It takes a lot more. (I emptied half a mag into a Bandit's chest before he dropped dead at point blank)

[oktyabr 53]

Incidentally' date=' I feel it's the American servers which are the worst offenders. I haven't noticed any loltags on the Euro servers.

[/quote']

You could be quite right but I think that's mainly two things:

1) There are more servers in north america than the rest of the world combined so you are more likely to find a server here running a particular way.

2) I think most first time DayZ server hosts just accept the default "Regular" settings without putting much thought into it. Hopefully they will give the subject more careful consideration in the near future.

"loltags"! I love it! :D

[Capital 5]

but can't you still take more bullets to the chest?

Nope. Difficulty setting doesn't change weapon damage or player health in ArmA 2. It only changes 3rd person' date=' crosshair, units-on-map thing, etc. (Experience from playing ArmA 2 for about 3 years now)

It's due to the blood system having issues with PvP I believe. When it's only supposed to take 1 bullet to the chest, it takes 2-8. The M4A1 for example, takes 2 bullets to the chest to kill an AI or player at close range, but in DayZ, due to the blood system... It takes a lot more. (I emptied half a mag into a Bandit's chest before he dropped dead at point blank)

[/quote']

Yeah I've played since Arma 2 released but I always heard rumors of easier difficulties giving players more life but I guess those were just rumors.

The blood system just takes some tweaking and testing. I did kill a bandit in 3 5.56 rounds yesterday center mass but I have no way of knowing what his blood was at.

I think it is actually pretty realistic as it is. Sniper rifles are generally one-shot kills. AKs are insanely powerful (7.62 ain't nothin' to fuck with). You can take rounds and with all the variables that go into that in reality, I think the game does a good job of simulating the randomness of a firefight in that sense.

Frankly, I wish that all servers were locked into expert mode.

[Captain Kirk (DayZ) 0]

Agree

Stick to your vision and dont feed the crowd what they scream for.

[masterjts 1]

The only thing I have to complain about is the persistent bandit skin. I am a bandit because I had to kill someone in defense. Now I have to keep killing in defense because everyone wants to kill me and my humanity is spiraling down.

They need to make it so that when you respawn you start as a civilian or at least ask if you want to keep your humanity or start fresh.

Respawning as a bandit is BS IMHO.

[Sonicle 2]

The only thing I have to complain about is the persistent bandit skin. I am a bandit because I had to kill someone in defense. Now I have to keep killing in defense because everyone wants to kill me and my humanity is spiraling down.

They need to make it so that when you respawn you start as a civilian or at least ask if you want to keep your humanity or start fresh.

Respawning as a bandit is BS IMHO.

I've been shot at by more survivors than bandits.

X does not imply Y.

I agree with OP, this game difficulty should be maintained. Rocket did say he would rather see the mod die than cater to the carebears anyway.

[godwine 2]

Alpha stage and this community already has an elite group? Because as we know' date=' casual only suggest garbage and l33t shits pure gold.

How about : Please don't listen to garbage suggestion, wether or not it comes from a casual or a hardcore player.

I'm a casual and I like how hard that game is. But I won't mind if some changes create a different gameplay.

[/quote']

+1

The name-tags are what really really bother me. If I see name-tags I disconnect immediately. I wish we check stuff like this before we join servers.

Seriously' date=' name-tags that appear when you wave your cursor over a (more or less invisible) person 100's of meters away in a bush? I can't get over how awful this is. Who on earth actually wants this? How about aim-assists? And flat bullet trajectory? And no recoil? And a 'press 'x' to initiate third-person bullet-cam kill feature'?

Incidentally, I feel it's the American servers which are the worst offenders. I haven't noticed any loltags on the Euro servers.

[/quote']

You're really blowing this issue out of proportion. Yeah, it sucks when a bandit is zeroing on you because he saw your tag a ways away. But then again, I sure am glad that I can see who I'm talking to right next to me and friendlies who I meet on the road. Is this a worthy trade-off? I think so.

Don't get so mad over what a community server sets themselves as. Do you know why? It isn't YOUR server.

[Reklin 56]

Third-person' date=' aside from being just a vanity view, is not well implemented. It also gives people a major advantage in firefights: corner-looking. You can camp a corner and see if someone's coming without leaning out and exposing yourself. I hope the final game is first-person only.

[/quote']

First person in Arma is clunky and not nice to play on, so no.

Third person actually makes most people feel more immersed than first person does, because the first person is so terrible. There's a post somewhere on this forum that explains exactly what I mean, it goes along the lines of, in real life we have plenty more senses than just vision and hearing, ingame in first person impaires your senses far more than they would be in real life if "must be realistic" is your argument.

Lastly, there are hardcore servers for the people that like to play in first person. Why do you feel the need to push YOUR preferred way of playing on everyone else? I can pretty much promise you there will be 3rd person in the final days of this mod. Sitting there saying "I don't like 3rd person because you can see round corners so this mod should be first person only" when there are already servers that cater to you is plain irritating.

[droznig 20]

Rocket did say he would rather see the mod die than cater to the carebears anyway.

Hallelujah!

[Zarathustra (DayZ) 87]

Third person actually makes most people feel more immersed than first person does' date=' because the first person is so terrible. There's a post somewhere on this forum that explains exactly what I mean, it goes along the lines of, in real life we have plenty more senses than just vision and hearing, ingame in first person impaires your senses far more than they would be in real life if "must be realistic" is your argument.

[/quote']

Hmm... I don't buy that, and I think I remember the post you mean. Yes, I know you lack some of your real peripheral vision in first-person view but that doesn't make third-person more immersive. That guy was just a third-person apologist trying to justify his addiction to third person - trying to make it sound reasonable, even claiming it was more 'immersive' when it patently isn't!

[Capital 5]

Third-person' date=' aside from being just a vanity view, is not well implemented. It also gives people a major advantage in firefights: corner-looking. You can camp a corner and see if someone's coming without leaning out and exposing yourself. I hope the final game is first-person only.

[/quote']

First person in Arma is clunky and not nice to play on, so no.

Third person actually makes most people feel more immersed than first person does, because the first person is so terrible. There's a post somewhere on this forum that explains exactly what I mean, it goes along the lines of, in real life we have plenty more senses than just vision and hearing, ingame in first person impaires your senses far more than they would be in real life if "must be realistic" is your argument.

Lastly, there are hardcore servers for the people that like to play in first person. Why do you feel the need to push YOUR preferred way of playing on everyone else? I can pretty much promise you there will be 3rd person in the final days of this mod. Sitting there saying "I don't like 3rd person because you can see round corners so this mod should be first person only" when there are already servers that cater to you is plain irritating.

Yeah this is a very flawed argument that I've heard before.

First of all, I readily acknowledge first-person is indeed not a 100% simulation of reality. For example, are you aware of the concept of a peripheral blind-spot? It refers to the fact that the very edge of our peripheral vision is essentially a simulation concocted by our brains based on all the sensory information in the immediate area. That is why something entering our peripheral vision at great speed startles us, because it can seem to appear out of nowhere. Games do not simulate this, regardless of the viewpoint, because our eyes already do.

Secondly, regardless of viewpoint, games do not simulate 3 of the 5 major senses: touch, taste and smell. The only thing that Third-person gives you is an unrealistic ability to see things that are not in line-of-sight with your eyes. This is more like a 6th sense than anything real and tangible.

Thirdly, Arma 2 already offers free-look (holding or double-tapping LAlt) and FOV transition in game. Touble-tap the minus key on your numpad and you get a wider FOV, if you're worried about not being able to see things in your periphery. Then it is up to your OWN eyes to scan your monitor and locate targets. Remember: The view from a first-person camera is never the character's "eyes" it is always their "head." The player's eyes move independantly of the character's head, simulating actual eye-motion in-game, which no actual mechanic.

Fourthly, what people seem to detest most about Arma 2's first person is the camera shake and motion blur. I personally love it, but what's great is you can dial both all the way down to nothing if it bothers you. I can imagine it giving some people motion-sickness.

Fifthly, in third-person you can see most of your body in the frame. This is far more unrealistic than the small realism/gameplay concessions of first-person. No amount of ESP can replace smell, touch and taste in a game.

And lastly, the unfair advantage. There is no denying that whether you prefer third or first person, in a game where you can go up against other players and tactical advantage is so paramount to victory, third-person affords an unfair advantage known as "corner-camping" or "corner-looking." You can put your body completely behind cover and use the camera to see around corners without leaning out or exposing any of your body to danger from your covered position. This is not only highly unrealistic but also highly unfair. Even two people using third-person, if one is hiding behind a corner and the other approaching, the person hiding will easily get the first shot off and that is generally the deciding factor, especially in a game where the weapons have such lethality.

TL;DR: First-person may not be a perfect simulation of reality, but it is a far sight more realistic than floating a few feet behind your own head and being able to psychically see around corners you have no actual line-of-sight on.

I have no issue with anyone's preference, but if you are looking for immersion, realism and fairness, first person is the only option for a game like this.

[nmarauder 0]

I think we should make a second world that is a mirror image of each server. We can call it Trammel, and in this magical mirror-image world, no PK would be allowed, no looting from dead enemies, everything would be prettier and less deadly, it will be possible to teleport around all over the place and there are mountains made of rock candy.

Of course, such a thing has been done and is considered by many to have caused the death of some of the most intense PvP action ever created.

[i wub pugs 16]

Perhaps the Dev Team can get some help from the ACE/ACRE team to implement some of the real goodies.

[Reklin 56]

I have no issue with anyone's preference' date=' but if you are looking for immersion, realism and fairness, first person is the only option for a game like this.

[/quote']

Ignored the rest of your post as it's completely irrelevant to me. My gripe is simply with First Person 'addicts' that want to force their preference on EVERYONE when there are already servers where you can play with other people who enjoy the same style.

Why do you hope this mod will be first person ONLY? As I've already said, there are already servers up that are first person only, whats you're problem? Does everyone else have to play the game the same way as you?

I have to say, claiming that 1st person is more realistic is objective, it doesn't feel realistic or immersive for ME compared to third person. So claiming its the "only way to play" for realism and immersion is frankly complete bollocks. Again, its your opinion, theres no reason why other people shouldn't be able to play differently.

Stick to your hardcore servers and spare the rest of us from your preaching.

[Stubbies 67]

I'd like to see this game keep a high difficulty level.

Basically just don't listen to most of the suggestions in the suggestions thread because most of those people just want cheats.

Less special needs orientated game would be refreshing.

Bump, good thread. Treat em mean keep em keen, aka <---

[Nailcannon 1]

Yeah this is a very flawed argument that I've heard before.

First of all' date=' I readily acknowledge first-person is indeed not a 100% simulation of reality. For example, are you aware of the concept of a peripheral blind-spot? It refers to the fact that the very edge of our peripheral vision is essentially a simulation concocted by our brains based on all the sensory information in the immediate area. That is why something entering our peripheral vision at great speed startles us, because it can seem to appear out of nowhere. Games do not simulate this, regardless of the viewpoint, because our eyes already do.

[/quote']

Peripheral vision is not a simulation. It is inherently lower quality due to it only being picked up by the rods, but its not a "simulation". Someone can stick their hand in your peripheral and you can see it whether or not your other senses picked it up. Secondly, the peripheral "blindspot" is caused because there are almost no visual cells where the optic nerve leads into the brain. And its not on the edge of the peripheral, its towards the outer edge of the fovea in each eye. And the reason something startles us is merely because we didnt sense it coming. We normally rely on hearing to detect things we cant see so when something comes into our outer vision without us knowing we get frightened. The same thing goes with hearing, if you didnt hear it getting close youll probably get startled when you hear it break a stick 3 feet away from you.

Third person offers the situational awareness that real life does. Using free look isn't a substitute for 3rd person because you still have no peripheral vision so you need to frantically look left and right to get the effect. You'll probably say its not that difficult but which one is more "real", the one where you spasm your head or the one that simulates peripheral vision?

The only downside of 3rd person is corner looking but that's a trade-off much in the same way that you dont get to use all 5 senses in video games. Its just inherent and its something you cant get rid of.

everybody has their preferences. i for one think 3rd person is both more realistic and less clunky than 1st.

[cabot696 1]

Ignored the rest of your post as it's completely irrelevant to me.

[...]

I have to say' date=' claiming that 1st person is more realistic is objective, it doesn't feel realistic or immersive for ME compared to third person. So claiming its the "only way to play" for realism and immersion is frankly complete bollocks. Again, its your opinion, theres no reason why other people shouldn't be able to play differently.

Stick to your hardcore servers and spare the rest of us from your preaching.

[/quote']

Maybe you should be respectful and read his post before you reply instead of hypocritically shitposting in response to something you didn't even read.

You're acting very egotistical. Just consider that a large part of the Arma community consists of gamers who are looking for a deep, simulation style game. It is only natural that they would like to play DayZ in a similar manner - that being a game with realistic restrictions without cheats like 3rd-person.

An abundance of easy mode, 3rd-person enabled servers makes it difficult for players to find realism servers and something like this ultimately waters down Arma's strong point of being a realistic fps which is what attracted the community in the first place.

I'm not saying you should agree with Reymas or anybody else. What I'm suggesting is that you should think a little more before writing a forum post that others will have to read. Don't call someone's ideas "complete bollocks", especially if you haven't even read their post. Think about the opposing mindset for a minute before you arrogantly respond.

I don't think anyone likes to read a post like yours.