Liberation! (Mechanic of reclaiming towns for Survivors)

[Lotharthestorm 0]

can we just say we want this game to be eve but zombie style already and be done with it?

anyways i agree with the idea but there is one big issue with it and what happens when all the towns in the server are taken over? because i saw what you were saying earlier about if there is no one there for five mins it should revert back.

but that makes no sense seeing as there are down times where no one may be on the server so you only get a liberated town for a whole whopping two hours or so and then its gone? only clans and such would then ever be able to do this.

and then what is the incentive to even do it if its not permanent? or isnt lost by other means like a bandit attack or zombie horde?

[Redshift 58]

Great suggestion. This would add a new dimension to the survival experience beyond just getting the jump on other players and insta-kill. While at the same time doing absolutely nothing to discourage pvp and banditry.

A few thoughts. I dislike the turning off of loot in a liberated town. Your initial reaction will be to say something along the lines of "you just want free loot without risk" which is not at all true. Even in a liberated town you are not free from risk.

-Zombies could attack the defenses at any moment and you need a way to get ammo that doesnt require you to leave (thus defeating the purpose of liberating the town).

-Nothing would (or should) stop players from killing each other in the town. Especially if you come up near another person hunting the same loot spawn as you and no one else is around.

This type of system would be a boon for both the survivalist and bandit playstyles. Survivors can band together and try to form their own enclave with its own rules that are of course only enforced by them and only as long as they "can" enforce them.

Arguably Bandits would actually benefit more than survivors even. Now you know where a large group of players is. You can hunt them in town, or wait outside of town to hunt down and kill survivors as they leave. Or even move in and take the town over from the survivors, and lure in other survivors who think the town is still safe.

In every respect this add more to the game without taking anything away from it, diminishing the risks and danger, and makes the game more interesting and immersive.

[Suriel 0]

A few thoughts. I dislike the turning off of loot in a liberated town. Your initial reaction will be to say something along the lines of "you just want free loot without risk" which is not at all true. Even in a liberated town you are not free from risk.

Turn off loot, but at the same time activate some kind of workbench - or several different ones - in town.

Loot will not spawn automatically but players are able to produce e.g. ammo and the more primitive weapons.

Make what can be produced different from town to town, but do not hardcode it. E.g. if you lose a town & it gets re-conquered something else can now be produced here.

Exclude food stuff totally from the possible production. That way you have a reason for hardcore city dwellers to either trade with the lone wolf hunter types or send out hunting/scavenging parties. (Basically, you have trade).

Add the nice little fix electricity feature someone proposed and there is our "light in the dark".

[Bottlerocket 205]

Great idea - DayZ needs something like this in the long term. We have the tools to survive. We have the tools to kill each other - What's missing is that we do not have the tools to rebuild, even in a limited way.

Also - no loot spawns in liberated towns. Perfect. That way you can't just sit there eating beans. You still have to go out and find ammo, or welcome incomers brining in supplies.

[Lachmayne 2]

I would like basic loot to spawn here. It would encourage new players to band together. Experienced players will most likely stay away from here. And bandits would come back to ruin the newbs. It would complete the circle of life that this game needs. Also http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=22192

I thought this thread died out when I posted that

[Bipedalius 0]

No Lachmayne, no loot should spawn when a town is liberated. If it would spawn loot, you can only guess how players would react. Me, I'd guess everyone would just sit on their ass waiting for the loot to spawn.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Yeah no loot should spawn. Except maybe the "bonus" loot i suggested earlier(just fortification stuff only spawning right when town is liberated), You shouldn't need more ammo in a fortified town because it's fortified. Zombies shouldn't need dealing with, that's the whole point. I suggested only spawning zombies when people shoot their guns around the town so there is a consequence to killing a player inside the town. Not so you could whine even louder when you get killed inside it. Your should never be safe.

Everyone seems to imply that it would be survivors capturing towns and a couple bandits coming to attack. I'd imagine that if this was implemented, we would see large groups of bandits moving in, setting up shop and holding it. Waiting for unsuspecting survivors to wander in.

Stuff like this would make it more of a living world. You'd run across a survivors warning you to stay away from a certain town because it's turned into a bandit camp, or to visit another, they're friendly and will trade.

Edit: stuff like this would be ruined by global chat.

[Zecknaal 2]

This really is an excellent idea! It would give players something to do in the endgame. As of now, your choices are pretty limited. Become a bandit, hunt bandits, or try some kind of crazy Dr. Wasteland scheme.

I absolutely agree with no loot spawning inside the city. You can't make it too safe or even easy to just sit inside the city. I understand the argument for making it easier for new players, but even if we accept that new players *should* have it easy, it isn't very realistic that a new player would find his way to a player held town. I don't imagine most players who take over cities would want it to be in the spawn towns (if that should even be allowed) as it would make them a much easier target for bandits.

I also agree that players should be required to build fortifications inside the city as part of keeping it safe. In fact, I would recommend that this mechanic take the place of the proposed mechanic for removing player base status. Instead of simply relying on the base being empty for X amount of minutes, I think it should be based on the level of fortification of the town. Barbed wire/walls/whatever block could either deteriorate over time, or through zed attacks. Enough holes and the zeds start making their way in. Too many zeds break in, and the town reverts back to an unclaimed state.

Thoughts?

[matt.gilmurray@gmail.com 46]

I like it. It demands teamwork from the survivors and even the deranged bandits this is a great idea. I give you my vote as a token of acceptance. +1

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

I also agree that players should be required to build fortifications inside the city as part of keeping it safe. In fact' date=' I would recommend that this mechanic take the place of the proposed mechanic for removing player base status. Instead of simply relying on the base being empty for X amount of minutes, I think it should be based on the level of fortification of the town. Barbed wire/walls/whatever block could either deteriorate over time, or through zed attacks. Enough holes and the zeds start making their way in. Too many zeds break in, and the town reverts back to an unclaimed state.

[/quote']

Although I concur with your idea, I would consider the idea that so long as a single survivor is left, he *could* wipe out what's left of the horde. Of course, that single survivor could easily then be sniped by a bandit and the whole liberation would crumble unless the Bandits then took the area back.

Oh, and to stop players from camping indoors during a Liberation, perhaps Zeds aren't prevented from running indoors inside a town that's been cleansed/is being liberated. Thoughts?

[Bipedalius 0]

Well, why shouldn't players camp indoors? I mean everyone are doing it already when they've got a horde of zombies after them. Plus, there's really not a lot of enter-able buildings in a town as it is now. But I'd support your idea yeah, since I believe they should remove the ''zombies walking indoors'' completely since it's kind of weird and a letdown, but that shouldn't happen before the zombies stop zig-zagging and maybe get decreased speed, to balance it.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

I'm not for zombies always being able to run indoors unless they definitely get a speed nerf, perhaps they sprint at 0.92 the speed of the player? That way you can still juke them through buildings or even just sprint for a few kilometres to lose them. If that were the case, then sure.

Camping indoors while in a liberation would be far too easy with the current mechanics, however, especially if there's only one or two ways into the building. You've essentially just made a chokepoint that the zombies are forced to walk through, straight into your bullets, so if Zeds could only walk through said chokepoints, it would make Liberation too easy to accomplish and hold.

[spartan029 0]

I love this, 100% support!

[Pinky Stavo 0]

I love the sound of this and totally support it. I think nothing at all should spawn inside the the town though once liberated (with the exception of maybe trash loot just for asthetics).

It would ultimately just become a base camp for a survivor colony to store their loot. If left unattended / unguarded then it becomes vulnerable to bandits / looters / zombies and would need to be cleared out or even liberated again.

[thales2010@live.com.au 6]

+1 This liberated point would make an excellent place to meet with other survivors to trade or share information ( maybe you found a car spawn that you arent interested in), the newer players can also ask the more experienced for help. As a bandit myself I could understand the reasoning behind attacking such a point but personally I would be quite happy to let it keep functioning so long as I'm not shot on site and am treated with the courtesy that is shown to other survivors, hell ill even kill bandits attacking the liberated point. My 2 cents on how to clear the area are after a certain amount of zed kills zombies stop spawning at that location for a certain period of time (maybe 100 dead zeds kills the spawn for 5 minutes). After this has happened the players setting up this point would have to place an item e.g. flag pole (code it so it can only be placed on a dormant zed spawn point) that will force the zeds to spawn 200m away. solution to stopping these points being set up everywhere is make the said item that is required incredibly rare possibly rarer than all the goodies like NVgs and the like. These are just my opinion but this would add some wonderful new additions to the already awesome world of DAYZ.

[ronson537 0]

i think its a grate idiea and if they add like guilds/factions that let you to identify friendly's from the same faction

examples:

Bandits will have thier own faction wich allows them to interact with own members an identfy other fiction bandits

Survivors will have few fictions as well that could be eithir in peace or eatiher in war

about 3-4 fictions is good will approve the team work aspect of this game and the pvp aspect as well becuse you can raid other fictions and make stand there tho the not spawning new loot could be a problem i think that when the city is captured it should just reduce the spawn rate of the itmes

should add trading routes too with non infected city's wich will allow you to get food watter weapons etc and survive bandit/zombies/other fiction attacks

i hope someone will read this :)

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

Setting up factions and such in the engine would be counter-productive as it constricts people to a preset concept of a faction (defined by the Developers), whereas instead it should allow the players to organise their own factions outside of the game, and work together by knowing who your members are, and if you have a rival faction, who their members are.

I really hope we get more customisation in terms of the way our characters look, that way you can have a single item (or multiple items) that act as a 'uniform' or somesuch. But that's for another thread, not here :P

[Zecknaal 2]

Although I concur with your idea' date=' I would consider the idea that so long as a single survivor is left, he *could* wipe out what's left of the horde. Of course, that single survivor could easily then be sniped by a bandit and the whole liberation would crumble unless the Bandits then took the area back.

Oh, and to stop players from camping indoors during a Liberation, perhaps Zeds aren't prevented from running indoors inside a town that's been cleansed/is being liberated. Thoughts?

[/quote']

Well, that single survivor is certainly welcome to try! Perhaps repopulation of the town could be based on some kind of steepening curve, so that it starts slowly begins to work it's up to a normal or temporarily increased amount. Might give a lone survivor or a pair a chance to fend off the hoard.

For the zeds running indoors - I don't think that's something you should consider as an end state function. That is pretty obviously a bug, and I know rocket has mentioned that he is going to fix it in the future when he makes zed movement less damn jittery (he talked about it in response to a question on his 1.7.2 thread). It will be a sad day :(

Somebody mentioned the idea of a flag pole up above (it's not on my screen and I'm too lazy to open another tab to find it) and I don't think that's the way to go. It's too arbitrary and simple. I suppose that one idea that could be tried is too have some small radius items that can be placed to say "No zed spawning for 10m". Sort of like zombie canola oil. And, based on that, maybe you could claim a town. Then again, if the god-damned barbed wire has proved anything, it is that people are able to quickly amass a ridiculous amount of some resources, and we might quickly find ourselves overrun by those items with zombies spawning nowhere. That would be boring!

[Lachmayne 2]

My concern with the no loot spawning in the liberated city is...Whats the point of having it than? There has to be some reason to do it or this entire thing becomes pointless. My suggestion would be to have the basic drops, makarovs, a revolver, maybe a lee enfield and a double barreled shotgun.

New Players would need these drops.

Older players alive for a day or so wouldn't need any of this.

Bandits would come back to try and grief and will sometimes die in the process.

I am concerned that without loot no one will care about liberating the city and it will be passed up. There would be another way to go about it without loot drops though. Have a train station or power station be in the liberated city. This could give you power or a means of transportation.

It is such a great idea, but with no reward it becomes obsolete.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

The reward is in the fact that you have a light in the darkness, a safe zone (in comparison to the rest of the wasteland at least). With the power idea that I believe Rocket is working on (Read this interview), the reward of having a light in the darkness would be both metaphorical AND literal.

But, ultimately, the idea of whether loot will spawn or not will not be up to us, but Rocket/the Dev team, as is whether or not this idea even gets implemented.

[Lachmayne 2]

A power station would be fine. As this gives a reason to do it. My only concern was having this event which provides no reward.

[rikardf 7]

The issue here is that once the players disconnects the place will probably be razed to the ground, So what if a few npc guards can be spawned inside the city so they could shoot the zombies wandering in and the folks shooting others inside the city pheraps?

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

No, it requires organisation from players to exist, and should require organisation from players to continue to exist. NPCs would be counterproductive. I hardly think this is an issue.

[Zecknaal 2]

I don't think NPC guards are the way to go. It would make killing the zeds a bit too easy. I think this really goes to the challenge of holding onto a town. Large towns would only be capable of being held by organized groups of people. I don't think it's unfair or unrealistic. Plus, if they are popular enough to be used at all, they'll always have *some* kind of defense. If you're a smaller group, well, maybe you only get to fortify some random farmhouse to be your base.

It is also worth nothing that 1.7.2 now includes bear traps, which would be useful in defending towns against bandits or zeds. I shudder to think what kind of bear trap hell the game is going to be for the next few weeks, but it does demonstrate that rocket is not opposed to some kind of unmanned defense mechanisms.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

Bear Traps are going to make things difficult for bandit hunters... Let's see how many broken legs they cause! I just hope he doesn't bother with landmines.