The General Survival Aspect Of The Game Needs To Be Made A Lot More Difficult

[andrestor 78]

The problem with the game right now is that the only threat are other players.

 

It's so easy to get food and get past zombies that you easily get to the point of not knowing what to do with your life and decide to get some PvP action. But I think the two first aspects I mentioned should be cranked up several notches to make the game a real survival experience.

 

In few words:

- Food needs to be a lot more scarce, like coast-like scarce even in the north parts. You should be happier to find a can of beans than a pristine gun. (In fact now that I think about it, for a post-apocalyptical world, there is far more food than guns, where it should be the other way around).

- Bottles and canteens should be even scarcer due to their re-usability.

- The illness system from drinking in unpurified sources needs to be very serious (I know it isn't implemented yet).

- The amount of antibiotics and charcoal tablets you can find is rather good although the first aid kit spawn rate is still too high.

- Territory needs to be something worth fighting for; KoS should be predominant in supermarkets, stores and restaurants instead of military bases, food should have a much higher spawn/re spawn rate there than regular houses.

- Water supplies like pumps need to be something to defend, maybe they can run out after several sips (with periodical refills, ofc).

- And ofc, zombies need to be much more of a threat either by numbers or by higher resistance.

 

The basic point is that every second you spend in the game you should be fighting hunger and thirst, be it by becoming a very efficient scavenger or by deciding the next person is carrying the food you desperately need, and you'll take it by force.

 

I can't think of more tips right now so I would like to know what else you guys say could be implemented.

[weedmasta 784]

The problem with the game right now is that the only threat are other players.

 

It's so easy to get food and get past zombies that you easily get to the point of not knowing what to do with your life and decide to get some PvP action. But I think the two first aspects I mentioned should be cranked up several notches to make the game a real survival experience.

 

In few words:

- Food needs to be a lot more scarce, like coast-like scarce even in the north parts. You should be happier to find a can of beans than a pristine gun. (In fact now that I think about it, for a post-apocalyptical world, there is far more food than guns, where it should be the other way around).

- Bottles and canteens should be even scarcer due to their re-usability.

- The illness system from drinking in unpurified sources needs to be very serious (I know it isn't implemented yet).

- The amount of antibiotics and charcoal tablets you can find is rather good although the first aid kit spawn rate is still too high.

- Territory needs to be something worth fighting for; KoS should be predominant in supermarkets, stores and restaurants instead of military bases, food should have a much higher spawn/re spawn rate there than regular houses.

- Water supplies like pumps need to be something to defend, maybe they can run out after several sips (with periodical refills, ofc).

- And ofc, zombies need to be much more of a threat either by numbers or by higher resistance.

 

The basic point is that every second you spend in the game you should be fighting hunger and thirst, be it by becoming a very efficient scavenger or by deciding the next person is carrying the food you desperately need, and you'll take it by force.

 

I can't think of more tips right now so I would like to know what else you guys say could be implemented.

 

Let me touch up on your points there one by one:

 

- Not to that degree but I agree, food should be scarcer. This will be balanced out though with the addition of hunting and increased zombie count as you will not be able to loot as easily as you can right now.

 

- Bottles and Canteens could be scarcer as well, however once the damage system on them actually effects them, I am guessing that will balance it out somehow e.g. you will have to replace them or patch them up (maybe with duct tape)

 

- Well you said it yourself, it will be implemented.

 

- I don't think the first aid kid spawn rate is high myself. Besides there isn't really anything lifesaving in there and it will eventually be balanced once other aspects of the game are implemented such as infection from water sources.

 

- Except the last part, that doesn't make any sense. Also loot spawns are not balanced, so making these assumptions are useless. Bases and such will be implemented, we will also be able to barricade buildings way before that.

 

- I think that is just a bad idea. When infection is implemented, the amount of water sources will not matter.

 

- Zombies are in their skeleton form right now because their AI and waypointing are being worked on and they are being optimized so higher numbers can be spawned on a server without your FPS going apeshit.

 

TL;DR this is Alpha stfu and please watch some devblogs and read some of the topics on the announcement forums ;)

Edited January 29, 2014 by weedmasta

[andrestor 78]

 

TL;DR this is Alpha stfu and please watch some devblogs and read some of the topics on the announcement forums ;)

 

Was gonna upvote 'till I read this...

 

The devs are asking for community feedback and suggestions, did it look like I'm complaining because "Ehrmahgerd too many bugs"?

I'm putting out a suggestion so that it can be constructed upon things like you said before pulling out the "STFU it's still in alpha"...

[Whyherro123 2283]

Honestly, as someone well trained in Wilderness Survival, the actual act of survival should not be all that difficult in Chernarus. It looks to have a temperate climate, which would be moderated even further by the large body of water nearly (1/2) surrounding the landmass. So, unless the game is set in the winter months (which it most decidedly isn't. Early autumn would be my guess, mid autumn at the latest), body temperature management would not be of great concern, with ample shelter and insulation (clothing) available. This, in turn, frees up available kilocalories for metabolic processes rather than homeostasis management. 

TL:DR for the above statement = since the weather appears to be relatively warm, you would have more energy available for movement and other "stuff" rather than having to burn 6000 cal /day just to maintain your body temp.

 

As for food, well, that is an issue. Your metabolism will spike to high rates during a survival situation, due to stress precipitating a "fight or flight" response whenever you are not sleeping, on top of the heavy exertion and other factors that would contribute. To remain healthy and "well fed" during such a situation, someone who ordinarily would require only 3000cal / day would instead require approximately 12000 - 15000 cal / day instead. I think the SA actually catches the proper eating habits of a survivor rather well ; you don;t want to eat large meals, as this weighs you down and requires large amounts of water and energy to digest. Instead, you want to want to eat many smaller meals. In-game, I eat whenever I do heavy exertion. I haven't been hungry in 3 days.

 

Really, the limiting factor to long-term survival is the availability of potable water, not only for drinking, but for bathing and medical purposes. There is absolutely no reason for a pump to ever run out of water, with the exception of the aquifer being drained. The "pump" you see is pretty much a well going down deep into the water table, so it should not run out. To add some survival "fear" if you will, I would remove many of the pumps from around Chernarus. The country seems to be pretty well developed, so I would assume the citizens would spring for indoor plumbing whenever they could. This, of course, would have shut down when the grid went down, or ran out afterwards (municipal water treatment plants have only a few days of water stored, for precisely that reason. My city of 90,000 people has a 3 day supply of water if the grid goes down, all flowing through gravity/pressure differentials) 

 

Since a lot of people would have indoor running water, why have outside pumps? By limiting the availability of potable water, you create resources that people will either fight over, or team up to protect. Make it so you can take the pump handle off, maybe, to limit access, and require repair before use? Either way, removing the abundance of clean water will DEFINITELY make the game more "survival-oriented".

[weedmasta 784]

Was gonna upvote 'till I read this...

 

The devs are asking for community feedback and suggestions, did it look like I'm complaining because "Ehrmahgerd too many bugs"?

I'm putting out a suggestion so that it can be constructed upon things like you said before pulling out the "STFU it's still in alpha"...

 

Does this look like the Suggestions forums? Also, I didn't say you were complaining and I must admit I was trolling when I said this is Alpha stfu :)

If you had read/watched announcements and devblogs you'd have "answers" to most of your suggestions.

Edited January 29, 2014 by weedmasta

[andrestor 78]

Honestly, as someone well trained in Wilderness Survival, the actual act of survival should not be all that difficult in Chernarus. It looks to have a temperate climate, which would be moderated even further by the large body of water nearly (1/2) surrounding the landmass. So, unless the game is set in the winter months (which it most decidedly isn't. Early autumn would be my guess, mid autumn at the latest), body temperature management would not be of great concern, with ample shelter and insulation (clothing) available. This, in turn, frees up available kilocalories for metabolic processes rather than homeostasis management. 

TL:DR for the above statement = since the weather appears to be relatively warm, you would have more energy available for movement and other "stuff" rather than having to burn 6000 cal /day just to maintain your body temp.

 

As for food, well, that is an issue. Your metabolism will spike to high rates during a survival situation, due to stress precipitating a "fight or flight" response whenever you are not sleeping, on top of the heavy exertion and other factors that would contribute. To remain healthy and "well fed" during such a situation, someone who ordinarily would require only 3000cal / day would instead require approximately 12000 - 15000 cal / day instead. I think the SA actually catches the proper eating habits of a survivor rather well ; you don;t want to eat large meals, as this weighs you down and requires large amounts of water and energy to digest. Instead, you want to want to eat many smaller meals. In-game, I eat whenever I do heavy exertion. I haven't been hungry in 3 days.

 

Really, the limiting factor to long-term survival is the availability of potable water, not only for drinking, but for bathing and medical purposes. There is absolutely no reason for a pump to ever run out of water, with the exception of the aquifer being drained. The "pump" you see is pretty much a well going down deep into the water table, so it should not run out. To add some survival "fear" if you will, I would remove many of the pumps from around Chernarus. The country seems to be pretty well developed, so I would assume the citizens would spring for indoor plumbing whenever they could. This, of course, would have shut down when the grid went down, or ran out afterwards (municipal water treatment plants have only a few days of water stored, for precisely that reason. My city of 90,000 people has a 3 day supply of water if the grid goes down, all flowing through gravity/pressure differentials) 

 

Since a lot of people would have indoor running water, why have outside pumps? By limiting the availability of potable water, you create resources that people will either fight over, or team up to protect. Make it so you can take the pump handle off, maybe, to limit access, and require repair before use? Either way, removing the abundance of clean water will DEFINITELY make the game more "survival-oriented".

 

I like the idea of reducing the number of pumps or damaging them.

 

Even though the food system might be balanced to real life what I wanted to express is that, just as with water, it would be nice if people would be constantly reminded of the lack of it, so it is a constant goal to find it.

[Element47 2481]

@OP: agreed on the topic. as weedmasta and Andrestor nonchalantly pointed out, a lot is already in planning, but its good to hear it advocated..

 

 

Honestly, as someone well trained in Wilderness Survival, the actual act of survival should not be all that difficult in Chernarus. It looks to have a temperate climate, which would be moderated even further by the large body of water nearly (1/2) surrounding the landmass. So, unless the game is set in the winter months (which it most decidedly isn't. Early autumn would be my guess, mid autumn at the latest), body temperature management would not be of great concern, with ample shelter and insulation (clothing) available. This, in turn, frees up available kilocalories for metabolic processes rather than homeostasis management. 

TL:DR for the above statement = since the weather appears to be relatively warm, you would have more energy available for movement and other "stuff" rather than having to burn 6000 cal /day just to maintain your body temp.

 

As for food, well, that is an issue. Your metabolism will spike to high rates during a survival situation, due to stress precipitating a "fight or flight" response whenever you are not sleeping, on top of the heavy exertion and other factors that would contribute. To remain healthy and "well fed" during such a situation, someone who ordinarily would require only 3000cal / day would instead require approximately 12000 - 15000 cal / day instead. I think the SA actually catches the proper eating habits of a survivor rather well ; you don;t want to eat large meals, as this weighs you down and requires large amounts of water and energy to digest. Instead, you want to want to eat many smaller meals. In-game, I eat whenever I do heavy exertion. I haven't been hungry in 3 days.

 

Really, the limiting factor to long-term survival is the availability of potable water, not only for drinking, but for bathing and medical purposes. There is absolutely no reason for a pump to ever run out of water, with the exception of the aquifer being drained. The "pump" you see is pretty much a well going down deep into the water table, so it should not run out. To add some survival "fear" if you will, I would remove many of the pumps from around Chernarus. The country seems to be pretty well developed, so I would assume the citizens would spring for indoor plumbing whenever they could. This, of course, would have shut down when the grid went down, or ran out afterwards (municipal water treatment plants have only a few days of water stored, for precisely that reason. My city of 90,000 people has a 3 day supply of water if the grid goes down, all flowing through gravity/pressure differentials) 

 

Since a lot of people would have indoor running water, why have outside pumps? By limiting the availability of potable water, you create resources that people will either fight over, or team up to protect. Make it so you can take the pump handle off, maybe, to limit access, and require repair before use? Either way, removing the abundance of clean water will DEFINITELY make the game more "survival-oriented".

 

*tips hat* excellent posting (again). i wish i could give more beans. thank you.

Edited January 29, 2014 by e47

[meat pie 632]

I do agree

 

 

getting a safe zone set up is to easy.

 

step 1. find a well

 

step 2: find the closest food spawn.

 

step 3 profit!

[Whyherro123 2283]

A good rule of thumb about wilderness survival, especially in a temperate environment, which I have the most experience with, is the so-called "Rule of Threes".

Rather simple, you, in average shape and with everything you need to survive, can reasonably (dependent on weather and other factors) assume to only be able to go:

 

3 minutes without air

3 hours of exposure (to cold, water/damp clothing/heat, etc)

3 days without water

3 weeks without food

 

before your body gives out. As you can clearly see, water is the limiting factor.

 

In an actual survival situation, there is a series of priorities you should follow to have the best chance of survival. In my experience, I recommend:

1) Basic shelter

2) Fire

3) Improved shelter

4) More firewood ( this is a constant, so always need to think about it)

5) Improve shelter more

6) Drinking water

7 ) Improve shelter

8) Food

[andrestor 78]

A good rule of thumb about wilderness survival, especially in a temperate environment, which I have the most experience with, is the so-called "Rule of Threes".

Rather simple, you, in average shape and with everything you need to survive, can reasonably (dependent on weather and other factors) assume to only be able to go:

 

3 minutes without air

3 hours of exposure (to cold, water/damp clothing/heat, etc)

3 days without water

3 weeks without food

 

before your body gives out. As you can clearly see, water is the limiting factor.

 

In an actual survival situation, there is a series of priorities you should follow to have the best chance of survival. In my experience, I recommend:

1) Basic shelter

2) Fire

3) Improved shelter

4) More firewood ( this is a constant, so always need to think about it)

5) Improve shelter more

6) Drinking water

7 ) Improve shelter

8) Food

 

It would be awesome if a temperature system was implemented like that, it would add an extra layer of challenge. I would understand it being more important than food itself although I don't know if it will be placed in-game. Somehow I think it eventually will.

[Whyherro123 2283]

With regards to food and necessary nutrition, you would actually be surprised at how different your essential diet would be from your normal, everyday diet. You want to be eating foods high in fat and complex carbohydrates, to give you metric SHIT-TONS  of energy, in order to stave off the aforementioned jump in metabolism. You also don't want to eat unless you have a decent supply of drinking water available, as the act of eating both takes water by itself (digestion) and kick-starts the metabolism, which in turn will deplete your bodies water supply.This means that the cereal you can eat in game would be next to useless, and could actually be harmful, as it provides little long-term energy, but takes a lot to eat (high in processed sugars, which spike the metabolism to crazy levels)

 

This ties into cooking methods. You want to boil literally EVERYTHING, then drink the water you boiled the food in. Boiling causes the lowest "loss of nutrients", while roasting and baking causes the highest. Ideally, you want to eat food as raw as possible without making yourself sick.

[weedmasta 784]

It would be awesome if a temperature system was implemented like that, it would add an extra layer of challenge. I would understand it being more important than food itself although I don't know if it will be placed in-game. Somehow I think it eventually will.

 

I am saying this for the third time I know I am sorry but if you had read/watched devblogs etc, you'd know that they will implement it. To save you the trouble a bit further, your clothes get damp if you go into water right now (it has no effect currently) and they will also go damp when it rains eventually which will leave you with various other conditions such as catching a cold, having sore feet and increased damage on clothes if used damp for too long (although the last one is more of an assumption)