The one and only Anti-PVP/PvP Discussion thread! Whine/discuss here!

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

Threads merged.

WTF MAN, that shit seriously tripped me out, i was so damn confused.

[UbiquitousBadGuy 846]

Yeah unfortunately it merges them based on timestamp instead of having all the replies merged in one chunk.

[Quadg 5]

the easiest way to reduce the amount of pvp is to reduce the amount of items you can loot from a survivor corpse.. he isn’t going to kill you if those NVG just disappear, and it will give him a reason to team up if its night and you have NVG. Its also not unrealistic.. do you think the contents of that backpack would be okay after you have just put a burst of high velocity rounds through man and pack? How about the binoculars/NVG on his chest?

It will restore some of the balance and also force campers to go into the towns for stuff. Instead of picking of the well stocked guys.

PVP will still happen as you can get some items, just not all. if you desperate for food or morphine. Shooting someone may still save your life.

It will greatly reduce the guys who just camp and kill dudes for stuff to save them having to search..

For the care bear who cries that the DMR just vanished off the guy he killed to save him having to work for it.. your tears taste shit... don’t spray em in my direction...

They should also make tents attract zombies over time... yeah you can have a secret stash but getting back to it could be interesting...

In the same way VON and eating/drinking attracts zombies..

[Bearsuit 0]

QuadG has a very good point, shooting someone should ruin some of a person's gear.

I like the current system in a lot of ways, and don't have a terrible hatred of bandits. What I don't like is that there's no penalty for being one, but there's TONS of rewards for it. I'd like to see some kind of penalty for being a "high ranked" bandit with a lot of kills, either game detection spawning more zombies near them, or having their chances of loot be lowered, nothing significant, maybe a 5% decrease per every 10 kills.

Like a karma system of sorts, players who help each other (blood transfusions only thing I can think of), should get karma "boosts" not in the sense that suddenly drops will fall from the sky, or way less zombies (I don't think the zombie count should ever be down from what it is, atm it's pretty good, if a little low). But just a VERY small increase of "good drops", more food/drinks found than empty tin cans, better chance of finding toolbelt survival items, etc. Nothing to give a huge advantage or disadvantage for either side, but I strongly believe at the very least, there needs to be a downside to being a bandit.

[kumiiyo 11]

IM ON SOME BATMAN SHIT!

my solution against the chaos in cherno is probably going to send people into an uproar, but it's been working as a backtrolling tactic for me in an awesome way.

what i've noticed assholes doing is server hopping on the factory roof in cherno loooking for victims down on the ground to snipe. what a bunch of bullshit.

so what i've started doing is this:

1. spawn, sprint to HATCHET. disregard zombies.

2. sprint to FACTORY. disregard zombies. climb factory to the TOPMOST roof.

3. wait with hatchet in the middle of the roof.

4. have a snack, read a book. beat ur meat.

5. when a sniper spawns in front of you (usually in less than 10 mins) ROLL up to them so they can't hear u coming and then freak them out over the direct com- "NOW SAY GOODNIGHT!" as you hack them to pieces.

6. pick up the sewper L337 sniper rifle and all the tits gear he's carrying and relocate to the OTHER factory roof directly to the north.

8. shoot anyone on any rooftop in the vicinity who is holding a rifle.

7. wait for more cocksuckers to spawn onto the main (wher u hacked the guy) factory roof with sniper rifles. (you can also server hop if you're into that sort of thing"

8. ????????????

9. PROFIT (and be beloved by noobs dodging bullets in cherno.)

seriously, the last guy i wasted with this tactic netted me a cz 550 with like 6 magazines, and an ALICE PACK with a DMR + magz in it. not to mention full gear (binox, map, gps etc). I bet he felt real great getting hacked to death with a hatchet in the least probable location all because he thought it would be fun to shoot innocent noobies.

[DonkeyAssHat45 4]

I dont even know what Anti-PvP/No Bandits/COD Kiddies are but im glad they have a thread. :)

[deepfried 95]

IM ON SOME BATMAN SHIT!

I like it! actually that sounds kinda fun. Maybe we could make a metagame out of it...

:P

[qfan 1]

Zombies ONLY PvP' date=' too. You realize that, right? They don't even have the courtesy to fight each other like the bandits often do - they only care about YOU. They even spawn special just for you.

So why is it okay and awesome and cool and fun and fine and dandy to face off against a horde of mindless killers bent on nothing but PvP when they are controlled by a computer AI and make scary noises but suddenly if those mindless killers have human intelligence it's suddenly awful and sad and a waste and terrible and game-breaking?

[/quote']

Hmmm just a stab in the dark, but maybe the fact that zombies dont snipe you at your spawn point from 500m away has something to do with it. Or maybe its the fact that the zombies have a SKIN that identifies them as hostile...

Or the fact that that's what the virus is supposed to do to them. They cannot be any different. Whereas common sense says human survivors do not kill and kill and kill in a situation like this. It doesn't fit the universe. I think that's the objection most have against the way pvp is played.

I play pvp now myself, but if I had a choice I wouldn't. I'd be out there helping the new guys because it's rewarding when you can encourage those that have no idea of the world they're in. You simply cannot do this anymore beyond 30 minutes of play max these days. You still need the risk of pvp, just not in the abundance it's in now.

Having endless mindless killers (player controlled) *reduces tension* as you have no other choice but to shoot on sight. There's no more question of whether you should trust them.

[edit] people often claim bringing balance here would be forcing a certain play style, but at the moment it is already forcing a play style without intending to do so. Pvp will always be king in this game until there is balance between the 2 styles - pvp vs pve.

[rymdkejsaren@gmail.com 0]

If you removed the loot and full PvP, this game would completely fall on its head because these things are the very essence of what makes the game interesting. I have played in this type of enviroment for a long time, since Ultima Online back in the day and many after that. As Legacy says, the only way is to rise up, create your own groupings, and punish those who kill indescriminately.

Developers of games with full loot and unlimited PvP tend to end up limiting these very aspects of the game in a variety of ways, often after players who cannot handle losing their gear whine and whine and whine. Ultima Online completely broke the core mechanics of their game when they started allowing "insurance" of items and more.

We have seen a huge influx of players lately and with that comes the downside of getting a lot of "bad" players. People will try and bend and break this game in every way possible, BUT this is not really a bad thing because it will teach the developers what they need to protect themselves against. I just hope that whenever a way to abuse game mechanics is found, time is taken to consider a good way to protect regular players against this abuse without detrimenting their game experience.

Currently this game is ripe for abuse, which is not strange considering it is in alpha. You can log out and flank enemies on another server, you can disconnect in the middle of a firefight to survive etc. My hope is that the solutions to these problems and the many more that will pile up do not turn the game away from its core mechanics, but instead build around them or even add to them. I have not enjoyed a game this much for many years, even in its current state, and I hope to be along for a very long ride!

[qfan 1]

If you removed the loot and full PvP' date=' this game would completely fall on its head because these things are the very essence of what makes the game interesting. I have played in this type of enviroment for a long time, since Ultima Online back in the day and many after that. As Legacy says, the only way is to rise up, create your own groupings, and punish those who kill indescriminately.

[/quote']

As many people have said before, the majority of those asking for balance are not asking to remove pvp at all. I loved UO, but DayZ has a lot of things that are very different from it. There are no safe zones like the cities in UO where invulnerable guards would protect you, as one example of many. UO is a bad comparison and DayZ should be treated differently.

Rising up is impossible here with the way the server structure works (40-50 max) and the ability to server hop makes it worse. Playing one server like you could in UO for lengthy periods of time is not possible in Dayz. You always end up playing multiple servers out of necessity since many are often full or down.

[Crosshair (DayZ) 0]

kumiiyo

1. Record Video of that

2. Put on YouTube and ask for donations.

3. PROFIT.

[Psyl3nt 125]

So much "bitterness" toward the percieved "cod" players.

What happened ? - did you all get owned savagely when you attempted to play COD and now it's all you think about to the point where anyone in any game that annoys you must be a "CoD player".

It just makes you look like more of a child than the ones your pointing the finger at.

I mean geez, sucking at a game isn't the end of the world, get over it, your not playing CoD anymore obviously, move on. Just because your "skillz" are nil or your all "mad cause your bad" doesn't mean you can't be "good" at DayZ and play it without dripping bitterness about your previous butthurt.

[qfan 1]

delete option would be nice

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Or the fact that that's what the virus is supposed to do to them. They cannot be any different.

Humans can' date=' yet they choose not to. Hmm, interesting. Perhaps you are nibbling a bit at the psychological cookie rocket has baked for you?

Whereas common sense says human survivors do not kill and kill and kill in a situation like this.

Come on. Common sense says that? Really? Common sense prescribes eventualities for being stranded in the Russian wilderness an indefinite amount of time after the end of the world? Common sense makes no allowance for the fact that you've watched your entire family torn asunder, eaten, or worse had to shoot them in their beautiful faces after they turned and tried to eat you like a rare steak? Going to bed every night with the image of your wife's torn, bloody face in your mind, that last guttural sound she made after you shot her, now waking up every morning lost, smiling, patting the wet earth beside you hoping to find her there? To kiss her again? Just once more... Common sense hangs on, after that?

After hearing your son cry out for you as he was pulled out of sight into a mass of swarming, hungry zombies, his cries of "Daddy, help!" echoing in your ear to this day? Wondering if you had just reached another inch, pulled a bit harder, not let his sweaty, bloody little fingers slip... if all that, maybe you would still have him, for one more hug? Instead you have the sound of a child's shoulder separating from the socket and an image of that hand you used to hold to cross the street, that watch you bought him for his birthday, then red, wet strips like licorice dipped in motor oil.

She was an amazing cook, and your son was just learning to ride a bike. You can smell her hair, hear his laugh if you try, but you don't... not anymore.

You hang on to common sense after that?

You don't, maybe, wrap your sweaty tired finger around the trigger and punish the world for all it has done to you? You don't perhaps seed the earth with the blood of the remaining souls to silence the pain inside your head? You don't put your gun in someone else's mouth because your only alternative would be to put it in your own?

I play pvp now myself, but if I had a choice I wouldn't.

Oh, horseshit. Ridiculous stinky horseshit. You have the choice. You made it. You shoot folk. Accept it. Choice made.

Having endless mindless killers (player controlled) *reduces tension*

Holy shit, dude. Come on. I'm trying to keep this at least a little bit serious and you're getting silly for no reason.

[qfan 1]

Or the fact that that's what the virus is supposed to do to them. They cannot be any different.

Humans can' date=' yet they choose not to. Hmm, interesting. Perhaps you are nibbling a bit at the psychological cookie rocket has baked for you?

Whereas common sense says human survivors do not kill and kill and kill in a situation like this.

Come on. Common sense says that? Really? Common sense prescribes eventualities for being stranded in the Russian wilderness an indefinite amount of time after the end of the world? Common sense makes no allowance for the fact that you've watched your entire family torn asunder, eaten, or worse had to shoot them in their beautiful faces after they turned and tried to eat you like a rare steak? Going to bed every night with the image of your wife's torn, bloody face in your mind, and waking up every morning to pat the wet earth beside you hoping to find her there? To kiss her again? Just once more... Common sense hangs on, after that? After hearing your children cry out for you as they are pulled out of sight into a mass of swarming, hungry zombies, their cries of "Daddy, help!" echoing in your ear to this day? You hang on to common sense after that?

You don't, maybe, wrap your sweaty finger around the trigger and punish the world for all it has done to you? You don't perhaps seed the earth with the blood of the remaining souls to silence the pain inside your head? You don't put your gun in someone else's mouth because your only alternative would be to put it in your own?

I play pvp now myself, but if I had a choice I wouldn't.

Oh, horseshit. Ridiculous stinky horseshit. You have the choice. You made it. You shoot folk. Accept it. Choice made.

Having endless mindless killers (player controlled) *reduces tension*

Holy shit, dude. Come on. I'm trying to keep this at least a little bit serious and you're getting silly for no reason.

Your main paragraph just supports my reasoning because you're specifically mentioning the zombie threat, not the entirely unrealistic human threat as it exists in Dayz at the moment i.e. 90% pk in my experience so far, in I guess, close to 8 weeks of play. That rare 10% was in the first week when I was willing to team up with other new guys, who got equally slaughtered along with me at the time.

It's people playing from the safety behind their monitors. You really think some players are thinking of the "backstory" to their characters when they cap people from the rooftops in Elektro? They are not remotely playing like some of the things you mentioned actually happened, which to me significantly reduces immersion.

Persistent pk clearly reduces tension, at least for me, as it has completely redefined my play style meaning I don't care about dying or killing anymore in the game. A game often sets the rules, not the player. So far it's a great effort though and I applaud it as far as it has gone. Though it has a lot more potential if balance can be brought to the table between the various play styles. The threat still needs to be there. The pvp still needs to be there, without a doubt.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

It's people playing from the safety behind their monitors. You really think some players are thinking of the "backstory" to their characters

No.

But' date=' it doesn't matter.

Because I am thinking of a back-story for them.

And I'm the one who matters to me.

Get it yet? Do you?

Yet?

Also, you should re-quote my post. I improved the prose a bit, if I don't say so myself.

[Kageru 18]

Don't bother with it. The PK arguments of "we are roleplaying a realistic reaction of the savagery in man being released in a time of crisis, we add tension and challenge that makes the game of value" is really just cover for "I like shooting people in games". Shoot anyone, loot their corpse, send them back to square one is absolute nirvana for these people. And they're as motivated on the forums as they are in game to preserve their play-style.

But there's no point arguing until / if we see a new humanity system. Until then you might as well presume Rocket is cool with it and that's the way things are. Because no amount of debate will change the game mechanics, and the game mechanics encourage and reward shooting first.

Of course Ultima was cool with it until they realized the people who don't like or can't compete in hard-core PvP get chased off. Same will happen here, though there's less profit motive so maybe it doesn't matter.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Don't bother with it. The PK arguments of "we are roleplaying a realistic reaction of the savagery in man being released in a time of crisis' date=' we add tension and challenge that makes the game of value" is really just cover for "I like shooting people in games".

[/quote']

Oh, how very convenient for you Kageru. Don't bother responding to the actual argument we're making. Instead, pretend we're not actually making it and pull a different, yet much less valid and defensible, argument straight out of your puckered asshole and then argue against that one instead.

Afterward, act like you won the argument.

I'm seriously getting a little tired of taking time to carefully explain my stance, only to have lack-wits like you come along and tell me that's not actually how I feel or what I believe or what I've experienced.

How about taking the time to respond to my real words? My actual posts? The points I've carefully tried to elucidate? Instead of inventing things I never said? How about trying that on for size, you ridiculous goober?

[Crosshair (DayZ) 0]

Whereas common sense says human survivors do not kill and kill and kill in a situation like this.

Come on. Common sense says that? Really? Common sense prescribes eventualities for being stranded in the Russian wilderness an indefinite amount of time after the end of the world? Common sense makes no allowance for the fact that you've watched your entire family torn asunder' date=' eaten, or worse had to shoot them in their beautiful faces after they turned and tried to eat you like a rare steak? Going to bed every night with the image of your wife's torn, bloody face in your mind, that last guttural sound she made after you shot her, now waking up every morning lost, smiling, patting the wet earth beside you hoping to find her there? To kiss her again? Just once more... Common sense hangs on, after that?

After hearing your son cry out for you as he was pulled out of sight into a mass of swarming, hungry zombies, his cries of "Daddy, help!" echoing in your ear to this day? Wondering if you had just reached another inch, pulled a bit harder, not let his sweaty, bloody little fingers slip... if all that, maybe you would still have him, for one more hug? Instead you have the sound of a child's shoulder separating from the socket and an image of that hand you used to hold to cross the street, that watch you bought him for his birthday, then red, wet strips like licorice dipped in motor oil.

She was an amazing cook, and your son was just learning to ride a bike. You can smell her hair, hear his laugh if you try, but you don't... not anymore.

You hang on to common sense after that?

[/quote']

Yes you do. A former co-worker is a refugee from Serbia. Her house was destroyed by mortar fire. She watched her hometown turn into a shot-up hellhole. She watched her friends die. She walked through a minefield to escape the fighting. The only reason she survived 10 minutes was because she kept her common sense, her and others worked together to survive.

Did the people in the concentration camps start killing each other?

Did the people in the Warsaw Gheto start killing each other?

Did the people in the Siberian prison camps start killing each other?

People have been through far worse. Those who lose it don't make it 15 minutes, even without zombies.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Did the people in the concentration camps start killing each other?

Umm' date=' yes? People killed many people in concentration camps. That's kind of mostly what happened there?

Did the people in the Warsaw Gheto start killing each other?

Yes, they killed people there too. The Nazis were people. You remember that, right? They weren't like monsters or demons anything. Just normal people doing terrible things to their fellow man, and they didn't even have a zombie apocalypse to blame it on. Just economic and social instability and a particularly charismatic leader who said "Hey, it's their fault! Get them!"

Did the people in the Siberian prison camps start killing each other?

Siberian prison camps exist, dude. Humans built them. Humans sent other humans there to die. Humans run the places. It's all humans doing harm to other humans.

So, yes. Again.

Were these really supposed to be big points for you? I mean, you kind of came right in there in support of the whole "people are basically fucked up" argument. Kind of shot yourself in the foot.

People have been through far worse.

Far worse than the end of the fucking world? No, people haven't been through far worse than that, yet. Sorry to disappoint.

All the inhumanity history has witnessed came BEFORE the zombie apocalypse... and you think it's going to magically improve after the fact?

Yes. "Common sense" at work again I see.

[Kageru 18]

Zed is either psychotic or the most able front-man for the PK crowd. Possibly both :)

[funionz 7]

Just let it go Zed, it's like trying to teach a bunch of dogs to drive nascar... a bunch of palsy ridden, autistic dogs.

For every one post we make trying to reason with them, a hundred more pop up ignoring the prior conversations, making the same points again and again... You could make a giant billboard sized image and post it in the thread, and one of these short bus forum go'ers would still post about how they need to nerf PVP, or make it so we shit out firecrackers when we kill someone, because y'know, it's tough having to pay attention to gunshots and listen, that requires work.

---

Zed is either psychotic or the most able front-man for the PK crowd. Possibly both :)

He's actually one of the most sensible people on this forum, believe it or not. He consistently refutes every single thing you post, so I can see why you'd rather insult him than try and reason.

[Kageru 18]

I'm not insulting him, I'm just identifying him.

He's not refuting anything because what he's doing is championing a play-style. Same as most people.

Not everyone wants the same play-style, that's why there's opposition to that Day-Z is becoming. Though it's pretty pointless because arguing doesn't change game mechanics.

[qfan 1]

Yes' date=' they killed people there too. The Nazis were people. You remember that, right? They weren't like monsters or demons anything.

[/quote']

Thanks man. I've never seen another opponent win my argument for me. Well done :)

[Kageru 18]

Godwin'd :)