The one and only Anti-PVP/PvP Discussion thread! Whine/discuss here!

[KaeSlick 0]

Ugh, great. We can only hope they get bored soon and leave.

[Kageru 18]

Only once the soft targets are gone (casuals and non-PvP players).

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

so yea' date=' its too late, there here, game was great a month ago when i could run up to someone, salute, and then we would go kill zombies together, now when i see someone imsupposed to avoid them/ kill them. no, thats not what i want to do.

this is fucking sad man, this game didnt even get through ALPHA before the CoDs COMPLETELY took over. this blows.

[/quote']

Day 15 on current survivor. 18 days on the last. My teammate is on Day 33 single survival. We play every day 3+ hours a day. Sometimes just us, often in a larger group of 4-5 (never alone, protip). The game resembles CoD about as closely as it resembles Farmville, and nobody has "taken over" anything. Calm down.

Treat hostile players like you treat zombies. They're just another obstacle to overcome. They should enhance your experience, not ruin it.

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

ive been alive for 25 days thats not what im talking about, good effort tho, im talking about all these guys that are making this game ONLY pvp, the guys that keep saying they want a weapon on start.

they just want to skip the survival aspect and go straight to player killing. if they want that they should play something else. i do NOT have a problen with pvp im happy its here, i just think, if people go around killing people saluting them for no reason its gunna take away from the games core.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Okay. I made a huge image and you're still not picking it up.

im talking about all these guys that are making this game ONLY pvp

Zombies ONLY PvP, too. You realize that, right? They don't even have the courtesy to fight each other like the bandits often do - they only care about YOU. They even spawn special just for you.

So why is it okay and awesome and cool and fun and fine and dandy to face off against a horde of mindless killers bent on nothing but PvP when they are controlled by a computer AI and make scary noises but suddenly if those mindless killers have human intelligence it's suddenly awful and sad and a waste and terrible and game-breaking?

The game is full of mindless killers who want to murder you. Some of them are computer controlled, some human. The human ones are far more interesting and challenging, as they can react dynamically, unpredictably and without convenient sound effects to let you know when they are nearby. This is a GOOD thing. It increases tension, drama and the unpredictable nature of the game. Likewise, overcoming an enemy of human intelligence should give you far more satisfaction and personal pride than beating an enemy who is controlled by a few lines of code and who you can fool by ducking behind a tree or running in a straight line for a really long time.

rocket made it clear a long time ago - and I agree completely - human enemies are more interesting than AI ones, no matter how good that AI gets. So, DayZ is about human enemies AND zombie enemies, and what you do when you have to face both everywhere you go.

Why is this not as interesting to you as it is to me? Why is the presence of killers, no matter their motivation, not a GOOD thing? How can you see it as ruining the game when I see it as the most important defining factor in making it the amazing experience that it is?

they just want to skip the survival aspect and go straight to player killing.

Okay. Who cares? Why does that matter? Zombies don't even HAVE a survival aspect. They're just automatons. So, again, why is it okay for them to go after you but not these players?

Oh, right. Again, it's because you know you can beat the zombies every time because they are predictable and stupid. Players, even the bad ones, are smarter than the smartest AI and that makes them dangerous and scary and it means no matter how hard you study them you'll never know what they're going to do next and that makes you sad and uncomfortable.

if they want that they should play something else.

No, they really shouldn't. If they leave, DayZ will become boring. Their presence and the drama and tension it adds is precisely why DayZ is interesting. Getting together with another survivor and collecting a bunch of food is only fun because you also have to worry about players who want to stop you from accomplishing that. Without the "killers" survival just becomes a matter of walking from place to place and that's a fucking bust of a game.

Once you encounter a player in the game, why does it even matter to you how they have played up until that point? They might be the most careful, methodical, survival-based, team player on the server or they might be a "CoDer" fresh off the beach who got lucky with a winchester. If they decide they don't like you, it doesn't MATTER where they came from or why they're there. You have to deal with them the same either way.

i do NOT have a problen with pvp im happy its here, i just think, if people go around killing people saluting them for no reason its gunna take away from the games core.

So basically you're happy PvP exists you just don't want people to actually do it? And if they do, you want them to do it in a way that's predictable and identifiable for you so that you can quickly categorize them in your "bad folks" file and move on with your comfortable life.

BAH I say. BAH to that. Discomfort in the face of your uncertain fate is exactly what makes DayZ great.

YOU OF ALL PEOPLE with a name like that should understand. Every single encounter with another human in The Road is incredibly gut-wrenching and tense precisely because you don't know what their intentions are. And just like DayZ - most of them are fucking batshit level crazy. You have the cannibal/rapist bandits, the family of cannibals with the naked meatfolk locked in their cellar, a group that cooks and eats an infant and a man who shoots The Man on sight with an arrow. No saluting. No "friendly?" Just BAM eat that arrow in your leg motherfucker, how's that taste?

The entire novel your namesake wrote is full of the kind of unpredictable inhumanity that you're now arguing has no place in the game.

And meanwhile, what friends did they make? The Man is so afraid of what might happen, he prevents the boy from making contact with the few individuals they meet who might not be awful people. The boy feels lonely and frustrated at this (like DayZ players do at the removal of side chat), but through his frustration we see a glimpse of his desire to reach out - and help - his fellow man. Even though the world he knows is nothing but grey ash and death, he still reaches out. But he doesn't make contact, truly, until The Man is dead and the novel is ending.

What do you think McCarthy is trying to say? Maybe he's saying that when the world has gone to shit, it's going to be really hard to find the good people among the insane murderers and rapists... but don't give up. Hold on and keep trying. They're out there somewhere and it might take you awhile but keep looking, okay?

If you took all the insane, murderous, senseless, horrible and despicable characters out of The Road it would literally be 1 chapter long. "Hi, shit went down. Now we're on a road. Shit I got sick. We found some peaches. Now I'm dead. The end."

Boring story, right? Right. So bring back the murderers and make it interesting again.

Really give it some thought, okay? Thanks.

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

you are an awesome person. i needed a slap in the face to remind me of what humanity is filled with. honestly that was the best response post ive ever read.

sincerely thank you i really needed that, i was just perturbed at how mindless some of the guys playing this seemed, but yea, thats not a bad thing.

anyway thanks for taking the time to write all that and use the Road as an example, whal playing this i think of movies like Jeremiah Johnson, and novels like Blood Meridian.

PS. its a chopper baby, not a motorcycle.

[deepfried 95]

Zombies ONLY PvP' date=' too. You realize that, right? They don't even have the courtesy to fight each other like the bandits often do - they only care about YOU. They even spawn special just for you.

So why is it okay and awesome and cool and fun and fine and dandy to face off against a horde of mindless killers bent on nothing but PvP when they are controlled by a computer AI and make scary noises but suddenly if those mindless killers have human intelligence it's suddenly awful and sad and a waste and terrible and game-breaking?

[/quote']

Hmmm just a stab in the dark, but maybe the fact that zombies dont snipe you at your spawn point from 500m away has something to do with it. Or maybe its the fact that the zombies have a SKIN that identifies them as hostile...

[istari766 0]

The PvP problem is simply human nature.

Weapons + People = Violence

Towards each other, and towards everything else.

Violence can only be controlled with counter violence, or social controls (i.e. Police, Prisons). The Zombie Apocalypse means that any social controls were lost.

Social controls seek to take away either weapons or humanity (freewill) from the equation in order to keep violence from being the result.

Rocket has already stated that he doesn't wish to implement in the game any type of system that takes away the freewill of the players. And any attempts to take away guns would be unpopular.

Essentially there is no solution, PvP is a fact. If people wish to being some kind of order to the servers that they play on, they will need to create the social controls that once existed. Police forces, militias, security forces etc... These forces would not stop PvP, but would use counter violence against Bandits in order to create a sense of peace for the rest of their server.

[deepfried 95]

get out.

[luckyhendrix 2]

Since when is it a problem ?

[Soldier of Failure 14]

There ARE solutions to PVP, just non we have found are pratical.

Continue searching, men.

[jaginun 87]

What is a solution to PvP? The message I got from reading that is removing PvP completely. And there are definatly groups that take the anti PvP idea into their own hands , just take a quick look at the Survivor HQ forum subsection.

[BMARTINS (DayZ) 0]

Avoid unknown if you see one shoot first ask after. Trust no one.

[Sawzall 0]

The PvP problem is simply human nature.

Weapons + People = Violence

Towards each other' date=' and towards everything else.

Violence can only be controlled with counter violence, or social controls (i.e. Police, Prisons). The Zombie Apocalypse means that any social controls were lost.

Social controls seek to take away either weapons or humanity (freewill) from the equation in order to keep violence from being the result.

[/quote']

No, you're wrong. People refrain from murdering because they're not sociopaths, not because they might go to prison. Your assertion that if people have weapons, they will kill is patently false.

[istari766 0]

What is a solution to PvP? The message I got from reading that is removing PvP completely. And there are definatly groups that take the anti PvP idea into their own hands ' date=' just take a quick look at the Survivor HQ forum subsection.

[/quote']

There is no solution. That is what I am saying. There are people taking it into their own hands, and that is the proper course of action.

There can be no solution to PvP put into the game that wouldn't limit the freewill of the players. And since I believe this game is trying to give us freewill in a zombie apocalypse setting, any attempt to do so would defeat the purpose of the game.

If people take action, then the problem of bandits can be controlled, and freewill is preserved.

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

i cant delete this post so ,, uh,,

[Blizzaze 5]

If people had freewill in this game they would spawn themselves some weapons,enable god- and noclip mode and go fly around the coast shooting everyone.

[istari766 0]

No' date=' you're wrong. People refrain from murdering because they're not sociopaths, not because they might go to prison. Your assertion that if people have weapons, they will kill is patently false.

[/quote']

Weapons were created with the intent to use them for killing.

And my assertion is that if people have weapons and freewill, they will kill. I think that the desperation of the environment is also a big part of it as well. But changing the setting is also completely destructive to the game.

My comments about social controls are as follows. We do not have free will in modern society, because there are laws and governments behind those laws that don't allow you to do anything you want. Without governments, without controls, people can and will do anything. And given weapons, killing is inevitable.

[machomanugget 26]

If people had freewill in this game they would spawn themselves some weapons' date='enable god- and noclip mode and go fly around the coast shooting everyone.

[/quote']

they do that already lol.. server hopping for one ...

[istari766 0]

If people had freewill in this game they would spawn themselves some weapons' date='enable god- and noclip mode and go fly around the coast shooting everyone.

[/quote']

Freewill within the confines of the game.

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

The PvP problem is simply human nature.

Weapons + People = Violence

Towards each other' date=' and towards everything else.

Violence can only be controlled with counter violence, or social controls (i.e. Police, Prisons). The Zombie Apocalypse means that any social controls were lost.

Social controls seek to take away either weapons or humanity (freewill) from the equation in order to keep violence from being the result.

Rocket has already stated that he doesn't wish to implement in the game any type of system that takes away the freewill of the players. And any attempts to take away guns would be unpopular.

Essentially there is no solution, PvP is a fact. If people wish to being some kind of order to the servers that they play on, they will need to create the social controls that once existed. Police forces, militias, security forces etc... These forces would not stop PvP, but would use counter violence against Bandits in order to create a sense of peace for the rest of their server.

[/quote']

i like this. i think it would be badass to be walking around and see a big group of (police). knowing it wasnt a group of bandits and they were there to help.

[MrMorton 0]

There is NO solution to PvP because PvP is not a "problem"

its an apocalypse simulator, if I am barely surviving in a world of limited resources, do I really want anyone alive near me, draining the pool of precious food, water, and ammo, except for people I know and trust to help me if I get in trouble.

[Kogru 0]

So if humans are so prone to killing eachother, how the fuck did we ever evolve to the point where we are today? reality is that we are not all psychopaths and our species actually enjoys playing nice in groups. FFA PVP games however tend to attract a certain type of retard.

[UbiquitousBadGuy 846]

Threads merged.

[istari766 0]

There is NO solution to PvP because PvP is not a "problem"

its an apocalypse simulator' date=' if I am barely surviving in a world of limited resources, do I really want anyone alive near me, draining the pool of precious food, water, and ammo, except for people I know and trust to help me if I get in trouble.

[/quote']

I agree, it is not a problem. And yet it is discussed as one all the time. So I feel it necessary from time to time to give food for thought.

So if humans are so prone to killing eachother' date=' how the fuck did we ever evolve to the point where we are today? reality is that we are not all psychopaths and our species actually enjoys playing nice in groups. FFA PVP games however tend to attract a certain type of retard.

[/quote']

Well quite simply we teamed up and created social controls. Groups of people that eventually stopped killing each other decided that they could die less if they stuck together. Sometimes they team up out of necessity because of a bigger enemy threat, but the violence never stops. The groups of people killing each other changes, but the violence never ends.