All Things Zombies! (A.I., Speed, Damage, Etc.)

[Rōnin Rick 98]

Hey guys, just wondering how the zombies will be later on in development. I'm not talking about the bugs there are now like zombies passing through fences and walls and not climbing stairs very well. And I know this is an Alpha and perhaps zombie AI isn't the highest priority, no complaints from me! I was actually just curious how they are planned to behave eventually.

 

For example, right now they seem to be able to see you from nearly as far away as you can see them (granted, I play on low settings, maybe if I cranked it up to high they would render further out!  :D).  Is this currently as intended? I've tried to sneak slowly and stay low, try to move between bushes and trees and avoid detection, and I still aggro zombies 200-300+ meters out that are facing in my general direction. Do you think by release the zombies will have a reduced visual detection radius? Do you think a basic stealth mechanic could be introduced like some games have, where you essentially have a 'visibility meter' (which the player wouldn't be able to see of course!) that changes based on whether you're in the light vs. the shade, or tall grass vs. out in the open, or crouching vs. standing, or walking vs. running, day-time vs. night-time?

 

Because remember, in the final game there will be many more zombies than there currently are. And they already do more damage after the last patch, right? Not to mention that they damage your gear when they hit you. I imagine you will be highly incentivized to avoid them until you have top-tier weaponry and are rolling with a group. And to dynamically interact with and avoid zombies, there needs to be some sort of stealth mechanic + competent zombie AI!

 

Another question: Sound. Currently they seem actually to have a rather small hearing radius. You can sprint around 20 meters from one and not aggro it. Additionally, you can walk right up to one, breathing heavily and everything, and it won't notice you; even if you swing your weapon at it and miss it doesn't notice! Also, even firing guns doesn't seem to draw them from more than, say, 2 blocks. Hell, realistically you should be able to hear a gunshot from one side of Elektro to another. If firing your weapon caused you to aggro zombies from considerable distances, people would think twice about KoS!

 

Also, regarding the damage zombies inflict on you: I think it would be cool if they had different attacks. For instance, the regular swipe they take at you could cause moderate damage as it does currently, maybe even with a probability of breaking bones, but wouldn't cause bleeding. They could also have a biting attack that does cause bleeding, but wouldn't break bones. Finally, they could have a sprinting attack (which they already seem to do, they run at you and do a leaping attack) that would have a probability of knocking you down if it hit. This would make combatting zombies much more interesting and dynamic, and actually scary, rather than the current 'side-strafe to win' strategy that works flawlessly. The biting and sprinting attacks could still be dodged but the regular swipe-attack could get you if all you do is keep strafing. Zombies aren't THAT stupid...

 

Finally, I think the only other thing necessary to make zombies a proper threat and really help make this a survival game rather than simply the deathmatch (with occasional bean-eating) game it currently is, would be to limit player sprint. Currently you can sprint indefinitely, which is unrealistic. It doesn't matter how good of shape you are in, you can't sprint for hours straight, much less while lugging around 60+ pounds of gear and weaponry! If stamina were introduced into the game, I think encountering zombies would be a much more harrowing experience!

 

Currently, you can simply sprint away from them until they give up the chase; what I propose is having the zombies RUN faster than players, and having the players be able to SPRINT faster still but only for a limited duration. The amount of time you could sprint would simply be determined by how much gear you have on you. Carrying a huge backpack, Mosin, Fireaxe, Revolver, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and a dozen cans of beans? Don't expect to sprint as long as the fresh-spawn. This way there would be an incentive to travel light, as you would be better equipped to survive zombies, if somewhat more poorly equipped to survive the environment/other players.

 

 

I think if all of the above were implemented (zombies seeing worse, hearing better, having varied attacks, and outrunning you if you are unable to lose them), this game would be fucking badass!

 

Personally, I'm not HUGE on PvP, so being able to play it like a zombie survival game instead of just another FPS (which incidentally happens to have zombies) would be great, and I'm sure many others feel similarly. It's not that I have a problem with players combatting each other per se, but the kill on sight mentality is a bit depressing, and if most players are unwilling to role-play, at least we would have the option to role-play with friends against the Zeds!

 

 

If you have any ideas, post them! Thanks.   :D

 

 

Edit:  What do you guys think of having different zombie types? Maybe a "heavy" that is slower and attacks slower, but does more damage and has a higher chance of breaking bones or knocking you down. And a "sprinter" that is faster and attacks quicker, but does somewhat less damage. Maybe a "diseased" one that has a probability of making you 'sick' each time it hits/bites you? Or even a "shrieker" that, when aggroed, draws surrounding zombies to it?  And all the different types easily identifiable so it wouldn't seem unfair/too difficult.  Just an idea. Might be cool!

Edited January 27, 2014 by Rōnin Rick

[Etherious 907]

TL;DR But it sounds very interesting :P Maybe you should ask Rocket himself, I know sometimes he answers people's questions. :)

[Rōnin Rick 98]

'TL;DR' isn't a very constructive response.... Maybe just don't say anything?  ^_^

[spartanxapathy 203]

 

Edit:  What do you guys think of having different zombie types? Maybe a "heavy" that is slower and attacks slower, but does more damage and has a higher chance of breaking bones or knocking you down. And a "sprinter" that is faster and attacks quicker, but does somewhat less damage. Maybe a "diseased" one that has a probability of making you 'sick' each time it hits/bites you? Or even a "shrieker" that, when aggroed, draws surrounding zombies to it?  And all the different types easily identifiable so it wouldn't seem unfair/too difficult.  Just an idea. Might be cool!

 

I know awhile back he said he wanted to do Zombie "life cycles" where fresher zombies would be fast, maybe sprinters, and "older" zombies would be slower. I personally cannot wait until the day where you are force to fire in a town and you just seem a swarm of zeds moving towards you.

 

What I find interesting is, even back on the mod, it stated something to the effect of zombies have good hearing and smell, yet, gun shots are iffy as far as agro and they seem to be primarily sight based. I know current zombie are place holders, and that's fine, not complaining, I am eagerly awaiting their rework tho. (I think it would be interesting addition if say, you walk behind a zombie a few meters in the dark, your char has been alive for days, you smell like shit probably, said zombie picks up your scent and starts to slowly follow it for a short time, things like that.)

 

I wouldn't say there is a stealth mechanic in the terms of say, Skyrim, but I know that your stance, the lighting, etc. all do have effects on zombies ability to see you. On a dark server you can slow crouch walk pretty close to them without incident.

 

I agree with most of what you say, and I feel that come full release, zombies will be a different beast all together.

 

 

I mean, TL;DR...  :P

Edited January 27, 2014 by SpartanxApathy

[M.J. 1]

Hey guys, just wondering how the zombies will be later on in development. I'm not talking about the bugs there are now like zombies passing through fences and walls and not climbing stairs very well. And I know this is an Alpha and perhaps zombie AI isn't the highest priority, no complaints from me! I was actually just curious how they are planned to behave eventually.

 

For example, right now they seem to be able to see you from nearly as far away as you can see them (granted, I play on low settings, maybe if I cranked it up to high they would render further out!  :D).  Is this currently as intended? I've tried to sneak slowly and stay low, try to move between bushes and trees and avoid detection, and I still aggro zombies 200-300+ meters out that are facing in my general direction. Do you think by release the zombies will have a reduced visual detection radius? Do you think a basic stealth mechanic could be introduced like some games have, where you essentially have a 'visibility meter' (which the player wouldn't be able to see of course!) that changes based on whether you're in the light vs. the shade, or tall grass vs. out in the open, or crouching vs. standing, or walking vs. running, day-time vs. night-time?

 

Because remember, in the final game there will be many more zombies than there currently are. And they already do more damage after the last patch, right? Not to mention that they damage your gear when they hit you. I imagine you will be highly incentivized to avoid them until you have top-tier weaponry and are rolling with a group. And to dynamically interact with and avoid zombies, there needs to be some sort of stealth mechanic + competent zombie AI!

 

Another question: Sound. Currently they seem actually to have a rather small hearing radius. You can sprint around 20 meters from one and not aggro it. Additionally, you can walk right up to one, breathing heavily and everything, and it won't notice you; even if you swing your weapon at it and miss it doesn't notice! Also, even firing guns doesn't seem to draw them from more than, say, 2 blocks. Hell, realistically you should be able to hear a gunshot from one side of Elektro to another. If firing your weapon caused you to aggro zombies from considerable distances, people would think twice about KoS!

 

Also, regarding the damage zombies inflict on you: I think it would be cool if they had different attacks. For instance, the regular swipe they take at you could cause moderate damage as it does currently, maybe even with a probability of breaking bones, but wouldn't cause bleeding. They could also have a biting attack that does cause bleeding, but wouldn't break bones. Finally, they could have a sprinting attack (which they already seem to do, they run at you and do a leaping attack) that would have a probability of knocking you down if it hit. This would make combatting zombies much more interesting and dynamic, and actually scary, rather than the current 'side-strafe to win' strategy that works flawlessly. The biting and sprinting attacks could still be dodged but the regular swipe-attack could get you if all you do is keep strafing. Zombies aren't THAT stupid...

 

Finally, I think the only other thing necessary to make zombies a proper threat and really help make this a survival game rather than simply the deathmatch (with occasional bean-eating) game it currently is, would be to limit player sprint. Currently you can sprint indefinitely, which is unrealistic. It doesn't matter how good of shape you are in, you can't sprint for hours straight, much less while lugging around 60+ pounds of gear and weaponry! If stamina were introduced into the game, I think encountering zombies would be a much more harrowing experience!

 

Currently, you can simply sprint away from them until they give up the chase; what I propose is having the zombies RUN faster than players, and having the players be able to SPRINT faster still but only for a limited duration. The amount of time you could sprint would simply be determined by how much gear you have on you. Carrying a huge backpack, Mosin, Fireaxe, Revolver, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and a dozen cans of beans? Don't expect to sprint as long as the fresh-spawn. This way there would be an incentive to travel light, as you would be better equipped to survive zombies, if somewhat more poorly equipped to survive the environment/other players.

 

 

I think if all of the above were implemented (zombies seeing worse, hearing better, having varied attacks, and outrunning you if you are unable to lose them), this game would be fucking badass!

 

Personally, I'm not HUGE on PvP, so being able to play it like a zombie survival game instead of just another FPS (which incidentally happens to have zombies) would be great, and I'm sure many others feel similarly. It's not that I have a problem with players combatting each other per se, but the kill on sight mentality is a bit depressing, and if most players are unwilling to role-play, at least we would have the option to role-play with friends against the Zeds!

 

 

If you have any ideas, post them! Thanks.   :D

 

 

Edit:  What do you guys think of having different zombie types? Maybe a "heavy" that is slower and attacks slower, but does more damage and has a higher chance of breaking bones or knocking you down. And a "sprinter" that is faster and attacks quicker, but does somewhat less damage. Maybe a "diseased" one that has a probability of making you 'sick' each time it hits/bites you? Or even a "shrieker" that, when aggroed, draws surrounding zombies to it?  And all the different types easily identifiable so it wouldn't seem unfair/too difficult.  Just an idea. Might be cool!

:beans:  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:

My beans for your post. I wanna see huge amount of zeds in the game. And I want to group of zombies was more dangerous than the same group of survivors.

Edited January 28, 2014 by M.J.

[mahreo 1]

great post, i'm very excited for the updates in which zombies will be reworked and a lot more will be added.

 

i'm all for zombies having a bite attack which will 100% infect players. infected players will then have a limited amount of time before they die and reanimate (their loot staying on their body is debatable). this would drastically increase the dangers of fighting even 1 zombie and make each a deadly threat.

 

imagine running with a group and one friend gets bit. the rest will have to decide who gets what loot and who will do the deed before their buddy becomes a zed.