Vehicle overhaul in DayZ compared to ArmA

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

I wouldn't count on the TOH flight model finding its way into DayZ. At one point the ArmA3 team said it would be in ArmA3, but that didn't happen, and really the ArmA series has a much broader realism crowd than DayZ.

 

If BIS are willing to let them down, I'm pretty sure they won't care about the small % of players that want it here.

 

Regards.

 

Edit: I would love to see a better vehicle simulation, including manual shifting and proper clutch, I would have to figure out a way to hook my G27 up without interfering with my keyboard positioning :lol:

 

Though I seriously doubt theres anywhere near enough headroom left for giving true sim-like driving physics.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Romeo Foxtrot

[BL1P 252]

Hi.

 

Yes, 'civilian aircraft only' would be better, as I doubt AA weaponry would be availble. I don't think it would be much fun watching a group with a uh60 flying around mowing down every survivor they spot.

 

Still, I personally don't like the idea of helo's much. It creates too much of an easy mode for the groups that have them: o you died, where did you spawn, ok, I will be there in 40 seconds...

 

Though, in all honesty, I do like destroying them. :lol:

 

Regards.

Heh I have played within those groups and it does make life 100% easier as you explained.

 

I am in quite quandary really over the implementation of aircraft. I want the game to be really really hard specially on Hardcore.

I would say make them hard as f##k to fly and operate, rather than remove them but if they are left alone (as they are now), I would say remove them. (at least on hardcore servers dont really care what happens on casual)

Edited January 17, 2014 by BL1P

[slim_pikins 30]

Hi.

 

I wouldn't count on the TOH flight model finding its way into DayZ. At one point the ArmA3 team said it would be in ArmA3, but that didn't happen, and really the ArmA series has a much broader realism crowd than DayZ.

 

If they are willing to let them down, I'm pretty sure they won't care about the small % of players that want it here.

 

Regards.

 

Edit: I would love to see a better vehicle simulation, including manual shifting and proper clutch, I would have to figure out a way to hook my G27 up without interfering with my keyboard positioning :lol:

 

Though I seriously doubt theres anywhere near enough headroom left for giving true sim-like driving physics.

They have already done a lot of the work for arma2 see text from there DLC for TOH and as for only a small % wanting it true but how meny asked for berry picking but its there ;-)

Take On Helicopters: Rearmed is a free official DLC for Take On Helicopters. It seamlessly merges Arma 2 and Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead content into the game. Fly your helicopter over the gorgeous autumn landscape of Chernarus, dodge incoming fire from a myriad of Anti-Air weapon systems, and fight in massive combined arms operations.

[soulfirez 901]

I would like to see vehicles in DayZ get more complicated especially the aircraft.

 

I have a few m8s who play the DCS games and they assure me that the avionics and flight mechanics in those games are a lot harder compared to the ArmA system.

Seeing as how Mr Halls vision of DayZ is a harsh unforgiving anti game environment, it would be a step in the right direction to have at least the hardcore mode simulate something like the DCS system for aircraft. Make land based vehicles use a 3 pedal and gearshift system as well.

 

I do believe that BIS has a working model that complicates the avionics and flight mechanics somewhat in their Take on Helicopters game.

With all the great new systems they are putting in place for the infantry side of things and the survival side of things.

Especially the implementation of a hardcore server version which removes the arcade style 3rd person view.

An overhaul of the current anyone can drive and fly system in the ArmA2 engine should be looked at IMHO.

 

An in game Book/Manual could be implemented that takes you through the start up system for the more complicated avionics of the helicopters and the flight mechanics etc.

 

If they did this so that the new systems where on the Hardcore servers and leave it as is for the Casual servers they could once again cater to both sides of the coin.

 

 

What ya think ?

ok well i like the idea but seperate flight models between the two modes might be a little hard , I would suggest that the major portion of TOH or atleast a good step toward it should be implemented ( maybe i suck but it took me a while to get to a good level on TOH )

 

But making closer to this level fits the aunthentic feel and the idea everyone seems to go a player in game has all the skills you as a player have ( can do what ever in game you as player know to do eg medical etc) than this fits it will mean not many will be able to fly something that in dayz IS A POWERFULL TOOL but not one just anyone can use realisticly ( if they pratice they could but what clan etc is going to let someone who cant already fly ,fly something that will hopefully take a long time to find fix etc)

 

So i am all for the implementing of as close to the flight model of TOH ( which is the version of the engine they actually made Dayz on RV i know but different to armas RV as is dayz now different to TOH lol ) as possible without losing resources for the main side of the game.

 

Hope that makes sense ( basicly yes to much harder maybe not full simulation though lol )

 

EDIT i say not full simulation cause with TOH that was the game it takes alot of cpu to run all the extra calculations ( ya talking wind drafts etc etc) i dont think it possible to have both the dayz game and toh and have it perform well ( could be wrong )

 

In a perfect super optimized world ( which i dont think the RV engine will ever be for various reasons) Id go shit yeah full TOH model ..

Edited January 17, 2014 by SoulFirez

[rybo 171]

I love the idea but not everyone can afford the set ups to truly be able to manage all the avionics.....

 

I much better idea is the mechanics. But even then your asking to have two games in one so it would have to be taylored to a point where the average joe could handle it.

 

I think he had it right with the Mod where its whole replacements parts. He could do the same thing with SA but add more. Such as doors,hoods, seats, etc...

[Dchil 829]

We also need a Handbrake if we are going to go full manual with cars. Hill starts with a manual and no handbrake = rolling down the hill while you rev the guts out of it or it stalls IRL 90% of the time.

[fitzee 248]

We also need a Handbrake if we are going to go full manual with cars. Hill starts with a manual and no handbrake = rolling down the hill while you rev the guts out of it or it stalls IRL 90% of the time.

 

LoL, I hear you. Probably wouldn't be too much fun from a standstill on your way up Mount Panorama without one. :P

[Niner 27]

Guys, guys, how about instead of arguing that your character would never be a pilot in the population of 1% of the world, why not put some sort of 'trainers' inside strongholds and survivor camps that can teach you how to operate a helicopter or plane. Or put in flight manuals and such.

[fitzee 248]

Guys, guys, how about instead of arguing that your character would never be a pilot in the population of 1% of the world, why not put some sort of 'trainers' inside strongholds and survivor camps that can teach you how to operate a helicopter or plane. Or put in flight manuals and such.

 

Hi.

 

In all honesty I was just throwing reality in there as an excuse, because I don't really think helo's should be in DayZ anymore than battletanks. :lol:

 

Either way, I'm pretty sure they will be in sooner or later. At least I haven't seen anything saying they won't be.

 

Regards.

[Awruk 216]

Guys, guys, how about instead of arguing that your character would never be a pilot in the population of 1% of the world, why not put some sort of 'trainers' inside strongholds and survivor camps that can teach you how to operate a helicopter or plane. Or put in flight manuals and such.

You mean like... NPCs? HAHAHA, no.

[Judopunch 523]

 

Lets discuss thinks that actually can be put ingame and where we know the devs will do it for sure.

 

  Imean we can talk about flying to the moon with a rocket in dayz, tough it will never happen.

We could also talk about why flying to the moon wouldnt be a good idea. Perhaps through good discussion we would realise that it was a good idea (i dont think it is)

 

However vehicles will be in the game. It is prudent now to stipulate on what kind and how the impact of vehicles, from bikes to airplanes, will have on the game and players. Players often have good ideas, and mining information from a lot of people can be beneficial for developers. By talking about the impact of helicopters, and different ways to tune them either by controls, parts, ect, we can help the developers explore the design space they are no doubt already working in with fresh outside perspectives.

 

Saying 'why are we talking about this' seems short sighted.

[kingrex 85]

finding a working/repairable helicopter would be rare and a pilot even rarer, I think adding ultralight aircraft would be great realistic and fun wise. They are easy to fly and repair. http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/159900-ultralight-aircraft/

Edited January 20, 2014 by kingrex

[Franchi (DayZ) 146]

Finding a reparable heliicopter after the zombie apocalpse? ha ha ha, Okay maybe if you get lucky. In the end helicopters and crews would be pushed far past regulation sleep and matnance cycles in search and rescue and evac operations resulting in high casualties in crew and aircraft.

 

Keeping it in the air? Not gonna happen.

 

Parts are not going to be interchangeable between aircraft, and getting the fuel to fly one would be nearly impossible.

 

You don't just need a pilot, you need a ground crew of skilled technicians just to get it off the ground. Maybe in a huge setlment you would be able to do it, but the cost/reward ratio would be so far out of whack you would never actualy do it.

 

Just for a little perspective the Huey costs around $500 PER HOUR to fly. A UH-60 costs around $2,000 per hour. Thats with parts and fuel you can order from factories and refineries and have deliverd to your hangar. Imagine the cost in blood in a zombie and looter riddled world.

 

Beyond all of that insanity, all of the counters to helicopters are cheaper and more plentiful than the heilicopters themselves. Your guild just spend 3 weeks repairing one, and you have a pilot to fly it!! To bad some noob who found an RPG got lucky and shot of your tail rotor (remember Mogadishu?), Better luck next spawn, not to mention all of the actual ground to air missiles out there and the AA guns.

 

As far as automatic versus manual cars and trucks, alot of the issues you guys have with hill starts are related to two factors, underpowered engines and no true low gear, take a full size truck with a diesiel or V8 engine and manual hillstarts are a breeze, heck your average diesel truck (f350, 3500) can start in 3rd on level ground without much fuss.

 

Now for tanks, finding them would not be a huge issue, geting them moving would not be that big of a challenge either, the ammunition  and fuel would be the killers, the M1a1 uses something like 10 gallons of fuel just to start, and burns over a gallon and a half per mile traveled it can however burn nearly any fuel, the T-90 fairs slightly better, geting just over 1 mile per gallon and also being multi fuel compatible. Lets think about this tho, one trip in a tank is going to cost in fuel as much as 15-40 of the same trips in a car or truck. Might seem cool to take one tank, but I am betting the crew driving 15-40 cars is faster and probably wins if they get in a fight, lets face it if you find a tank then there are going to be plenty of shoulder fired anti tank weapons.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Franchi

[Arty (DayZ) 47]

Dean said that he is working on creating the most realistic air-vehicle controls you have ever seen. It will take months, if not years to get used to piloting a single vehicle. 

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

Vehicle overhaul? Dude, there ARE NO VEHICLES in dayz right now. So why do you think that is hmm? Because they are doing them from scratch. Moot post.

[Judopunch 523]

Finding a reparable heliicopter after the zombie apocalpse? ha ha ha, Okay maybe if you get lucky. In the end helicopters and crews would be pushed far past regulation sleep and matnance cycles in search and rescue and evac operations resulting in high casualties in crew and aircraft.

 

Keeping it in the air? Not gonna happen.

 

Parts are not going to be interchangeable between aircraft, and getting the fuel to fly one would be nearly impossible.

 

You don't just need a pilot, you need a ground crew of skilled technicians just to get it off the ground. Maybe in a huge setlment you would be able to do it, but the cost/reward ratio would be so far out of whack you would never actualy do it.

 

Just for a little perspective the Huey costs around $500 PER HOUR to fly. A UH-60 costs around $2,000 per hour. Thats with parts and fuel you can order from factories and refineries and have deliverd to your hangar. Imagine the cost in blood in a zombie and looter riddled world.

 

Beyond all of that insanity, all of the counters to helicopters are cheaper and more plentiful than the heilicopters themselves. Your guild just spend 3 weeks repairing one, and you have a pilot to fly it!! To bad some noob who found an RPG got lucky and shot of your tail rotor (remember Mogadishu?), Better luck next spawn, not to mention all of the actual ground to air missiles out there and the AA guns.

 

As far as automatic versus manual cars and trucks, alot of the issues you guys have with hill starts are related to two factors, underpowered engines and no true low gear, take a full size truck with a diesiel or V8 engine and manual hillstarts are a breeze, heck your average diesel truck (f350, 3500) can start in 3rd on level ground without much fuss.

 

Now for tanks, finding them would not be a huge issue, geting them moving would not be that big of a challenge either, the ammunition  and fuel would be the killers, the M1a1 uses something like 10 gallons of fuel just to start, and burns over a gallon and a half per mile traveled it can however burn nearly any fuel, the T-90 fairs slightly better, geting just over 1 mile per gallon and also being multi fuel compatible. Lets think about this tho, one trip in a tank is going to cost in fuel as much as 15-40 of the same trips in a car or truck. Might seem cool to take one tank, but I am betting the crew driving 15-40 cars is faster and probably wins if they get in a fight, lets face it if you find a tank then there are going to be plenty of shoulder fired anti tank weapons.

 

This is a game we are talking about. That takes inspiration from real life. It is not, in fact, real life.

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar 23]

What i hated most about arma2 was the fact that cars would catch fire and turn to burned out chassis after you shot like 15 rounds of ak or 2 AS50 rounds into them, the whole process of car turning from looking fine into instant inferno was just ridiculous.

 

This is how it should look:

Edited January 20, 2014 by Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

[Window Licker 504]

How many rounds would it take to down a military chopper? it runs the risk of "needing" to include some sort of counter, I could defiantly see light aircraft, microlight, cessna or those small farm choppers some have they would be solely for transport and you'd wanna be real careful about where your flying them.  I feel that having thing like a full on choppers would mean they would be inclined to include the guns required to shoot them down.

 

Guns are another topic but even including some big one's and making the ammo rare it would still get horded.

 

Edit: All that being said we do have the chopper crash sites around the map so they where defiantly in the area at some stage.

 

Edited January 20, 2014 by Window Licker

[conan the librarian 99]

Jesus.. why stop there? Why not add extremely sophisticated cooking procedures as well? I want to have all of the best features of every single aspect of this game - why not have features that allow us to bake really complicated pies and cakes using basic ingredients? Howabout a street fighter like melee combat engine? What about gran turismo features for car driving?

 

Why not allow every single thing in the game to be fully interactable? I want to chop down trees with an axe and carve the wood into intricate items with a kitchen knife. Howabout base building? I'm sure we could better any sim-world game!

[hombrecz 832]

I guess I would like if there were 2 helicopters for each server (Huey and Mi-17). Ofcourse without any weapons, but please allow passengers to shoot their personal weapons from doors (guess that would work best for little bird).

 

Regarding the difficulity for flying...maybe make it tad harder then in dayz mod, but don't overdo it.

And I like the idea of having to find and read ingame manual for each helo...although that would be negated pretty quickly by internetz.

 

Regarding cars, I like the idea of "shift gear up" and "shift gear down" so that you could chose what gear to use. And again, please make it so that passengers in car can shoot out of the windows.

 

Also cars and truck had very weak engines in arma 2, this needs to change in DayZ SA.

I remember hating Landrover for being so damned slow on grass despite being offroad.

Also I don't think there was any difference in driving over dirt road and grassy field, which sucked.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Hombre

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Hi.

 

I respect that you, like others would want them in, and I like that you want them to be difficult, but how about my last question?

 

I will add to it - If every survivor has the expertise to repair and operate helos, then why not tanks as well? Surely they would be a peice of cake to operate in comparison?

 

Regards.

Because if tanks were added, the expectation would be that you could use the main gun on them. If that were to happen, the balance of power for the tank driver/owners would be swayed so massively in their favour that it would break the game. The way to balance it would be to add RPGs, but they'd have to be common enough that, should someone roll into town with a tank, you'd have a good chance of finding an RPG and taking it out. Making RPGs that common would then result in people picking them up and blowing up buildings willy nilly, or blowing up newspawns for shits and giggles (the same would also occur with the tank, btw).

 

In short, it would break the game. The only way to add tanks that wouldn't break the game would be to add them but be unable to fire the main gun, or possibly even the HMG/LMG that would be on it, so they'd essentially become big, slow, APCs, and if you're going to do that then why not just add APCs? At least then the forum won't crash under the weight of all the "WHY NO TANK GUN FYER SHIT GAME!!!!" threads.

 

Any helicopters that are added should be of the unarmed transport type for the same reason. A Littlebird, whilst cool and fun, would require something like a Javelin be added to the game to balance it, and just what the fuck. It's a zombie apocalypse in Soviet Russia, not Battlefield n. The only benefit to having a heli should be that you can travel large distances quickly and possibly have a flying platform to shoot conventional weapons from, but heli's should be hard to find, hard to fix (scarcity of parts) and practically impossible to fly for the average person. 

[Karmaterror 982]

Yep the vehicles need and are getting a full overhaul. Personally (although i would love to see it) years of sim racing have taught me that manual clutch just isnt possable on a keyboard. Sure its doable, but it would never feel right at all. Best bet, like others have said is a semi-auto box. Clutch is taken care of but shifting is done by the player. 

 

As for helis, i dont like the idea. They are overpowered by a mile, and not just for picking people up. You can scout the entire map edge in around 10 mins. Find and destroy any camps out there in 20. Then be back at base after checking all the mill spawns in 30. What i would like to see is a plane....like the AN-2 that found its way into a lot of mod servers. 

 

The advantage/dissadvantage with a plane is its inability to vtol. If they made it a lot harder to land, and the distance required to take off and land was uped, then it couldnt be used the way helis are. Sure you could get from north to south pretty quick, but you are limited on where you can safely land :)

[Sir Digby Chicken Caesar 23]

I dont see why tanks are a such BIG NONO, just make them spawn as detracked,  with broken engine or somethin like that to make the player spend time and effort in hunting parts and repairing it, and they should be super rare and only have like 3-5 shells in them or hundred rounds for machinegun and ofc always low on fuel because they do like 5 miles to gallon.
 

Edited January 20, 2014 by Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

[Window Licker 504]

Yep the vehicles need and are getting a full overhaul. Personally (although i would love to see it) years of sim racing have taught me that manual clutch just isnt possable on a keyboard. Sure its doable, but it would never feel right at all. Best bet, like others have said is a semi-auto box. Clutch is taken care of but shifting is done by the player. 

 

As for helis, i dont like the idea. They are overpowered by a mile, and not just for picking people up. You can scout the entire map edge in around 10 mins. Find and destroy any camps out there in 20. Then be back at base after checking all the mill spawns in 30. What i would like to see is a plane....like the AN-2 that found its way into a lot of mod servers. 

 

The advantage/dissadvantage with a plane is its inability to vtol. If they made it a lot harder to land, and the distance required to take off and land was uped, then it couldnt be used the way helis are. Sure you could get from north to south pretty quick, but you are limited on where you can safely land :)

 

That's exactly why I suggested using the smaller choppers, they'd be vulnerable to small arms fire any player attempting to use them in the fashion you describe wouldn't last long cos you know anyone with a gun would pop a few rounds at it, forcing the pilot to take a route that has less chance of hostiles or flying dangerously low.  While the vtol is an advantage it takes a bit of time to get the blades up to speed or forces the squad to leave a person in the chopper to keep it running.  In addition to that having a working chopper paints a big target on you if my squad saw one land over the next rise I'd be sure to try and take it idgaf if no-one knows how to fly we'll die trying.

 

finally and most important when your squad comes under fire and your all scrambling to get in you know someone going to do the Arnie "get to da chopper"

 

tanks.. I'm a bit iffy on them although the 5 miles to the gallon would mean people wouldn't drive about willy nilly, in fact they'd essentially end up a base defense mechanism. Which wouldn't be so bad.

[Karmaterror 982]

I dont see why tanks are a such BIG NONO, just make them spawn as detracked,  with broken engine or somethin like that to make the player spend time and effort in hunting parts and repairing it, and they should be super rare and only have like 3-5 shells in them or hundred rounds for machinegun and ofc always low on fuel because they do like 5 miles to gallon.

 

 

The problem is for everything they put in there needs to be a counter, otherwise the guys with the tank would be invincible. If they were to go in then we would need rpg's or .50 cal rifles again. And then why wouldn't we just play arma for that fix of high end mill gear combat.

 

 

That's exactly why I suggested using the smaller choppers, they'd be vulnerable to small arms fire any player attempting to use them in the fashion you describe wouldn't last long cos you know anyone with a gun would pop a few rounds at it, forcing the pilot to take a route that has less chance of hostiles or flying dangerously low.  While the vtol is an advantage it takes a bit of time to get the blades up to speed or forces the squad to leave a person in the chopper to keep it running.  In addition to that having a working chopper paints a big target on you if my squad saw one land over the next rise I'd be sure to try and take it idgaf if no-one knows how to fly we'll die trying.

 

finally and most important when your squad comes under fire and your all scrambling to get in you know someone going to do the Arnie "get to da chopper"

 

tanks.. I'm a bit iffy on them although the 5 miles to the gallon would mean people wouldn't drive about willy nilly, in fact they'd essentially end up a base defense mechanism. Which wouldn't be so bad.

 

A smaller much more vunerable chopper could be better, but just down to the speed and "go anywhere" nature of them i wouldnt want them in. Its easy enough to start swinging and avoiding fire, then just dip below the next rise to be out of danger. We always just used to leave ours running with noone in it lol. Just spool up then hit eject....not get out, and instant ready to go heli :)

 

Maybe with both TOH engine and a small none military helicopter (ohh yeah and no more than 1 per server if they did!) it could balance out. Suppose i wouldnt mind 1 small heli with crap load space but (obviously lol) vtol, then an an-2 with really good load space but hard to land outside of an airfield or very large field.