I have an idea for helping with the KOS problem. Rocket should read.

[jan3sobieski 32]

It has nothing to do with realism. I want KoS because gathering cans of beans is more exciting if I have to worry about someone shooting me while I do it. It makes the game more intense and interesting. That's why I want KoS.

 

Incidentally, that's also why Dean wants KoS.

 

That's funny. Now you don't want realism. Every other KoS "problem thread" I've been to listed realism as one of the undermining reasons to keep KoS the way it is. "Because in real world when society breaks everyone could just KoS", what a load of BS. In reality you would be able to KoS. Of course you could. But you'd eventually run out of things to kill because in the real world, your "enemies" or "targets" don't just magically respawn.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

You all should probably read my post in depth.

 

We read it. We've all read it. We read it every few days because it gets posted constantly and the same arguments ensue every time. You're probably the tenth person to post the idea htis month.

 

My idea is not to punish players with a system that permanently messes them up. In fact if you read it I even point out there should be a time delay between killing a person and gaining stress and the effects setting in.

 

Okay, so it's a delayed punishment. That's still a punishment. Forcing me to carry meds around with me all the time and chew them like vitamins just so I'm allowed to play the game I want, while you suffer no such need because you're way of playing is "better," is a punishment specifically put in place to deter me from playing how I want.

 

What if I can't find the meds? Then I have to play your way?

 

And are you going to take meds every time you kill a zombie? Or are you just going to continue to conveniently ignore my point that the zombies in the game are real, live, breathing humans and you gun them down without a second thought all the time?

[jan3sobieski 32]

In all seriousness. Why does a game have to be completely authentic? 

 

That's funny, now you're arguing that KoS'ing is ok because the game doesn't have to be authentic. That's going against all the other KoS's argue. That this is a sandbox game and they should be able to do whatever they want as they would in reality.

[waffen-79 32]

sigh... had to log in to type:

 

NOPE

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

That's funny, now you're arguing that KoS'ing is ok because the game doesn't have to be authentic. That's going against all the other KoS's argue. That this is a sandbox game and they should be able to do whatever they want as they would in reality.

 

That's fine. I'm not those people, and I haven't ever made that argument, so I'm not sure what's "funny" about this. Some people might feel realism is the reason for KoS. I do not. I think it exists because it's presence makes the game more intense, thrilling and stressful. Everything I do in the game is exciting because at any moment I might be murdered.

 

That's why I want KoS.

 

And it's not just me. The creator of the game feels the same way. Here's a quote from him:

 

"What I find interesting about DayZ is that I'm choosing to live and play this way; I'm not playing this way because it's necessarily the most efficient, I'm playing this way because it's how I want to feel. Not everyone plays the same way, but those that are playing as these evil and sadistic bandits are actually helping my game experience." --Dean Hall (rocket)

Edited January 9, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Arciere 10]

I ran into a group of bandits who stopped me at gun point with a hiking backpack, no food, no water, just a shitty broken splitting axe. He killed me and my friend, you know what he said? "Sorry we had to, we are bandits." That's what is wrong with this thread. 

[Lorax 99]

Cry more please.

 

Or just wait until you can have custom servers where all you softcore pussies can sing songs around a campfire, without fear from 'bad men with guns'; and just simply worry about boringly predictable AI Z's.

If anything this is more hardcore, I like it. Real consequences for your actions, also this wouldn't be implemented until much later and by that time zombies will be more plentiful and hopefully more dangerous.

[Leo Balzac 190]

I get a kick out of all the KoS people calling others 'pussies' for taking the risk of interaction. To me, those who KoS are the true 'pussies'/cowards since they take no risk in KoSing. Don't get me wrong, I've had to KoS before, but I try not to do it and usually attempt to initiate contact from a concealed spot in order to ascertain (that means 'discover' to you illiterates on here) the player's intentions.

[Gerandar 212]

So are you. Murderers get the death penalty and they never do it again. But this is a game, so they can keep doing it over and over again and then they argue that it's their right to.

 

Not every country has the death penalty, I personally don't care what they put in the game I'll still kill on sight, the only way they are going to stop me is making it so I cant shoot other players.

[colinm9991 196]

Look, we really don't give a fuck about your KoS 'fix' ideas, build a bridge and get over it.

 

Everybody has the exact same ideas, there are no differences between your ideas and any others who post this shit. We have no sanity or stress levels, we're all serial killers so we're used to roleplaying psychotic people; how's that for a major plot hole?

 

Now, stop making threads about how to 'fix' something that isn't even broken, play the damn game and shut the hell up.

 

--Update--

 

What the hell are you people talking about, 'death penalty' and 'prison', WHO is going to prosecute us and arrest us in a ZOMBIE APOCALYPTIC WASTELAND WITH NO AUTHORITY?

Just shut up.

Edited January 9, 2014 by ColinM9991

[Lorax 99]

Much of what he said about the effects on your mental health from taking a life are quite true. Basically PTSD.

 

Although I like the idea as far as adding realism to the characters reactions I think this is something that shouldn't really be added because to 'keep it real' the same mechanic has to applied to seeing dead bodies, evading gunfire, just encountering zeds let alone taking them out. Really this could break the game and give those with the 1 in 25 chance a massive advantage. Also, what happens when it's not your chance and you have to kill someone to defend yourself..... are you still penalised? I love realism at its extremes but we have to also consider playability

That does make sense. Even killing in self defense will create stress, so ya you'd be penalized. The only thing I don't like about the KOS fad is it creates a  one dimensional game. Don't get me wrong I would hate it if KOS was completely removed, or even drastically reduced, but he idea or something like it would at least calm it down so it is less predictable. I think all of this should be kept on the back burner and wait and see how game play changes once more zombies are implemented, as well as more realistic audible ranges (for both players and zombies) of guns. Also once they reduce the nerfing of loot spawning that should also change game play. When ammo and guns are harder to find, and there are more zombies, and they zombies will be attracted from gunshots from greater distances and players can hear shot well over a km then people will think twice about pulling the trigger...I think.  Also need to make the zombies hit harder and infect more.

[Richald 3]

Man stop whining I will kos all day every day simply because I can.

[colinm9991 196]

Man stop whining I will kos all day every day simply because I can.

 

I don't KoS myself unless it's a server hopper, but I feel like finding any game the OP joins and killing him every time I see him.

[jan3sobieski 32]

 

That's fine. I'm not those people, and I haven't ever made that argument, so I'm not sure what's "funny" about this. Some people might feel realism is the reason for KoS. I do not. I think it exists because it's presence makes the game more intense, thrilling and stressful. Everything I do in the game is exciting because at any moment I might be murdered.

 

That's why I want KoS.

 

And it's not just me. The creator of the game feels the same way. Here's a quote from him:

 

"What I find interesting about DayZ is that I'm choosing to live and play this way; I'm not playing this way because it's necessarily the most efficient, I'm playing this way because it's how I want to feel. Not everyone plays the same way, but those that are playing as these evil and sadistic bandits are actually helping my game experience." --Dean Hall (rocket)

 

 

 

Yes, and as you can see and hear HERE in one of his latest dev blogs, He wants to introduce the "destroyed" condition of items into the game to shift away from the shoot on sight mentality. He obviously sees the problem with what the game's become.

 

He says "I think this is really, really key aspect that we're actually adding...[talks about inventory] ...and this combined with the restraint mechanic is going allow us to make some end roads on this basic sort of shoot on sight mentality, because if you shoot a player there is the real danger of destroying the items they have on them."

Edited January 9, 2014 by jan3sobieski

[klusps 4]

If anything this is more hardcore, I like it. Real consequences for your actions, also this wouldn't be implemented until much later and by that time zombies will be more plentiful and hopefully more dangerous.

 I don't mind KOS and I believe players should have the freedom to do whatever he/she wants, but I do think the zombies would bring this KOS issue to a settling conclusion. I remember when I played the original DayZ mod, when it became popular, players would actually band together to kill zombies because at that time we didn't know how to exploit them. As the DayZ mod became more popular people learned exploits to avoid and escape from zombies. This made zombies not a threat to them anymore and the only other threats are other players. If Rocket does make the zombies more threatening and dangerous it will have an effect on KOS, for the the better or the worst. 

[Gdaddy22 299]

 

Alright so I am really getting annoyed with KOS. For a game that tries to make an "authentic" zombie survival simulator this game really fails to effectively deal with KOS.

 

First is real life people actually have a hard time killing other people unless they are acting under strong emotional duress or they are naturally wired to not be empathic (psychopathic or aspd individuals). People who are not mentally equipped to be killers suffer from a variety of problems when they take another persons life. The military and the police both spend millions of dollars to provide ongoing training to their members so they can instill a shoot first, think about consequences later reaction. They also spend millions on counselling to try and deal with the after math of their members having to shoot at other people. 

 

Unless DAYZ is trying to be a game about people with antisocial personality disorder surviving the zombie apocalypse there needs to be some mechanic that deals with KOS. I propose that the developers introduce a stress mechanic. If you kill another person you gain stress. Stress depletes with time and can be stopped temporarily by having antidepressants or stimulants.

 

As your stress level goes up it would take longer periods of time to go decrease and it would have a couple of debilitating effects on the character. First stress shouldn't immediately bother your character. It should go up rapidly but the effects should take a few minutes or more to begin to set in. 

 

At low levels it should cause your hands to shake so your aiming is messed up and you still lose food and water from containers when you use them. This would be the stress level of someone who has killed one or two people recently.

 

At moderate levels it should make you more prone to getting infections and diseases. This is accurate to real life as stress has been proven to make your immune system decrease it's effectiveness. The hand shaking should become more pronounced. Your character should need food and water more frequently as their appetite increases due to stress. This is the stress level of someone who has killed 3 to 5 people recently.     

 

At high levels it should make you bleed out faster as the stress increases your blood pressure. Infections should be even easier to acquire and harder to get rid of. And the hand shaking should become very severe. If you want more realism you should have characters at this level of stress sometimes fail to shoot their weapon when the mouse button is clicked.This is the stress level of someone who has killed more than 5 people recently.

 

Antidepressants should temporarily make the hand shaking go away but have no actual effect on the stress level. You could even include other drugs which would alleviate the hand shaking even better like muscle relaxants, opiates (another use for morphine), or other narcotics. Antidepressants and other drugs should be very rare. 

 

If more realism is wanted a character should have a 1 in 25 chance of being immune to stress to simulate the natural occurrence of antisocial disorders among people. A character shouldn't know they are antisocial until they kill someone and don't have any reaction to it. 

 

This system won't stop KOS but should discourage it. Players who wish to go on murderous rampages or kill every other player they meet would be able to hunt for drugs that would suppress the symptoms they experience. Or they could just go out into the woods away from other players for a while and let the symptoms fade over time as the stress level goes down.

 

The symptoms should have an onset time of about 10 minutes. This would allow players who are being shot at to respond without having to worry to much. Then if they retreat or hide for a bit the symptoms should fade. It should take about 15 minutes for a single kills worth of stress to fade. 

 

For more realism you could simply add in the ability to have a stroke or heart attack from stress. The stroke or heart attack would have a small chance to kill you but normally would just cause you to lose a large chunk of blood. Or you could add in auditory hallucinations like weapons being loaded and footsteps nearby to simulate the paranoia a person would begin to feel under such combat related stress. 

 

Anyways thats my idea for dealing with the KOS mentality.

 

As the game currently stands I feel that it becomes a bit to much of a game and less of an experience because the fact is that killing others has no effect on you unlike real life. If the game is about normal survivors then they should not be able to just become murder machines without suffering some kind of debilitating mental damage. Most of the KOS I have witnessed has been the kind of behavior that would flag a person as being mentally unstable in real life. 

 

Thanks for your time,

rzach

 

 

I'm against recuding KoS by punishing people. It's supposed to be a zombie apocalypse, weapons and ammo should be extremly rare, so killing freshspawns who have no gear and wasting precious ammo on them is against everything that this game is supposed to be, players should kill people only when they  are sure that  they could hurt you or when they are sure that they will benefit from killing a certain guy, extremly rare ammo and weapons will not only reduce retarded coast camping and freshspawn killing but also will make this game a real zombie apocalypse 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Gdaddy22

[Furtherado 100]

That's a nice quote. You're trying to show this image of people who are weak, starving, no water almost dying. And yet, the people who KoS are more like this, and proud of it.

 

Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:59 PM

 

 

 

friendly neighbourhood watch... to be fair..he tried to run away....

 

 

I don't see anyone starving here, they're all happy and healthy and in the face of this impending "doom" you mention, they don't look like what you describe? or am i wrong? Do you see impending doom here? I don't. They killed this guy in cold blood and their explanation for it was that he tried to run. Sounds like psychopaths to me, not "starving" survivors.

 

This guy didn't even have a sack of potatoes, in fact he didn't have anything. 

 

I`m not defending spawn killers, i don`t KoS generally, and i know that most people who do, do it for fun or to grief.

 

I`m simply arguing against all those who say that IRL, if you murdered someone, you would go batshit insane, and therefore you should receive severe penalties for murdering people in DayZ.

 

They fail to understand that murder is something alot of people are capable of, given the right circumstances. In a situation like this, where the infected are dangerous enough to wipe out the military and the systems we have in place to protect us from threats, society breaks down, and interactions with others inevitably become more violent. Criminals generally come from desperate and poor backgrounds, and grow up in environments that cultivate toughness and violence. In a harsh environment such as the one in DayZ (which is desperate and poor), you can`t sue people, noone gets sent to jail, there are no police, and no safe havens. Eventually you will find that if you aren`t willing to threaten, wound and even kill someone who wants any resources you might have, you will get killed and your murderer will survive on your food.

[Gerandar 212]

Yes, and as you can see hear HERE in one of his latest dev blogs, He wants to introduce the "destroyed" condition of items into the game to shift away from the shoot on sight mentality. He obviously sees the problem with what the game's become.

 

He says "I think this is really, really key aspect that we're actually adding...[talks about inventory] ...and this combined with the restraint mechanic is going allow us to make some end roads on this basic sort of shoot on sight mentality, because if you shoot a player there is the real danger of destroying the items they have on them."

 

I dont kill people for there loot, I kill them for fun hell I haven't looted a body in ages.

[jan3sobieski 32]

Look, we really don't give a fuck about your KoS 'fix' ideas, build a bridge and get over it.

 

Everybody has the exact same ideas, there are no differences between your ideas and any others who post this shit. We have no sanity or stress levels, we're all serial killers so we're used to roleplaying psychotic people; how's that for a major plot hole?

 

Now, stop making threads about how to 'fix' something that isn't even broken, play the damn game and shut the hell up.

 

--Update--

 

What the hell are you people talking about, 'death penalty' and 'prison', WHO is going to prosecute us and arrest us in a ZOMBIE APOCALYPTIC WASTELAND WITH NO AUTHORITY?

Just shut up.

 

If you didn't read what the 'death penalty' answer was in regards to, they you're the one who should shut the hell up as you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody suggested anything like that for the game. 

[Sula 1205]

This is a forum, guys.  So discuss the subject but show some respect for other people's opinions and little civility too please. :thumbsup:

[need matches 84]

Um, are you old enough to remember the LA Riots of 1992? People were shooting FIREMEN and dragging people out of cars just to bash their heads in with bricks.

[No Classes PLEASE 5]

...

 

Kids go back to school please, and stop ruining our otherwise fantastic apocalypse simulator!

 

do us all a favor and take your own advice.

 

this thread is bad, the idea is redundant and people in favor of this kind of thing are poisonous to the game along with their misinformed views on real world bahavior and the human mind. some of you vastly underestimate the human psyche and what people are capable of, without remorse, especially in a threatening post-apocolyptic environment where resources are scarce. some people may be bothered by killing. a lot wouldn't. add an option to pick a "faction" at character creation; Humanist or Realist/Survivalist. people who pick humanist can enjoy these little "sanity/stress" systems in the game while others can be left alone to play as it was meant to be played. a full loot pvp sandbox with no restrictions and silly systems in place to hinder freedom of choice.

[jan3sobieski 32]

Um, are you old enough to remember the LA Riots of 1992? People were shooting FIREMEN and dragging people out of cars just to bash their heads in with bricks.

 

Yes, we know about those riots. But you should elaborate why they started in the first place. Police brutality and unfair (in many opnions) judgement in favor of the police force.

 

Then a bunch of a-holes started riots and 58 ppl died. (BTW, they didn't respawn) Everything was squelched after the US military was called in. End of crisis. 

 

Even though I don't support the rioters, they did it because they had a reason to. Unfair treatment. A lot of KoS'ers here just kill others for fun or out of boredom. No real agenda. If you don't believe me, read someone's response 4 posts above this one.

[martink8190@gmail.com 149]

First of all I can't find any more elegant solution to KoS myself  ( So I'd have to disagree with arificial stress / post implementation ) and with that said I agree that while PvP is not a problem, KoS mentality is.

 

I find it funny that the mature players are the ones usually trying to come up with some sensible solution and generally seems to agree that KoS mentality is a problem for them, whereas the younger act like they would kill IRL anyone who they don't like the look of.

 

Likely? Yes, probably likely but I don't believe / find that the more mature players want to koss all they long. Or is it only me seeing this kind of pattern?

[Richald 3]

It's all about the pvp mayne