Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[floj 393]

we essentially end up with 2 games for the price of 1

Or: We essentially end up with 1 team of devs making 2 games on the same budget and timescale.

[Max Planck 7174]

Yea not too sure what Skinup was trying to say lol.

The way it is at the moment works, having separate dedicated 1pp servers is really the best way, it changes the way you play the game, and we essentially end up with 2 games for the price of 1

 

The problem with that is, the devs will have to work on two games for the price of one.

It also creates a 'brand' problem, for lack of a better word. I think there needs to be a clearer 'image' of what DayZ is.

 

EDIT:

The ninjas are getting restless.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Max Planck

[Heiduk 265]

As per my last post...

 

Repeating your assertions don't make them anymore true. I'm sure it happens but I don't think I've ever seen a DayZ video where a player was actually being suppressed.

 

 

Your talking like this is a army game IT'S NOT.

Plus when full zombies are in the game good luck with that.

 

The point isn't that DayZ isn't a good enough military simulator, ARMA does that quite nicely, the point is that 3DP eliminates a significant amount of complexity that the game would otherwise have.

 

Note that this applies to the PvE game just as much as it does PvP. Zombies may not be able to suppress you with gunfire but if you are looting a house and hear what sounds like 20 zeds walking past in the street outside that should make you think long and hard about whether you want to have a peak out the window or hope they just go by. With 3DP:ON you don't need to make that choice, just crawl over to the window and periscope away. Zero risk 100% reward.

[kiwi_laurel 24]

There is no extra work to be had... 3pp is already there... we already have 2 games as such...

The same arguement that always pops up is being able to periscope lol.

But how is having to stick nearly my entire head out of the window to see anymore realistic? 

I don't get it.

The are advantages and disadvantages to both. Either view changes the way you play the game.

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

The problem with that is, the devs will have to work on two games for the price of one.

It also creates a 'brand' problem, for lack of a better word. I think there needs to be a clearer 'image' of what DayZ is.

EDIT:

The ninjas are getting restless.

Well if it was up to me (and obviously it's not) the image of DayZ would be that of a zombie-survival-horror MMO that is predominantly played in 3rd person view with elements of a 1st person shooter.

That is what attracted me to the game in the first place and I'm sure I'm not alone. The reason a lot of us prefer playing in 3rd person is not for any tactical advantage, but it's so that we can identify and relate to our character more.

It makes dying in DayZ far more meaningful when you care about your character. You don't get that feeling when you play in 1st person. At least I don't.

[floj 393]

There is no extra work to be had... 3pp is already there... we already have 2 games as such...

The same arguement that always pops up is being able to periscope lol.

But how is having to stick nearly my entire head out of the window to see anymore realistic? 

I don't get it.

The are advantages and disadvantages to both. Either view changes the way you play the game.

We're still in alpha. Every feature they add is gonna change the balance for each game. Even a backpack makes a difference, you can't see over your shoulder with a mountain backpack in 1PP. So this means we have to stop running and physically turn to check our 6 if we're using one., this results in slower movement, which results in more food and water to travel the same part of the map, which means either water and food spawns have to be different or the basic mechanics have to be different, a tin of beans might last an extra 5minutes for 1PP - otherwise one game will be unsatisfactory for PvE (either too hard or too easy).

 

It affects the PvE against zeds, 3PP players can easily search towns and avoid zeds whilst doing so, 1PP players might be more likely to accidentally turn a corner into a zombie and get hit, therefore might need more medkit spawns, different blood and health meters and regeneration and of course also need to take longer to safely check through a town, so again food and water needs will be different.

 

It affects feature implementation, 1PP players might want mirrors and periscopes as items to give them abilities to see around corners. 3PP players will think that's a waste of dev time.

3PP players might want kewl takedown animations when they kill someone in melee, 1PP players think this is a waste of resources.

 

So yeah there's a ton of extra work to be had, some of it optional, a lot of it only benefitting one side or the other.

 

EDIT: That's why you really don't want to have to develop for two different playergroups at the same time, and why Im an advocate of making 3PP as similar to 1PP as possible, ie removing the exploit or severely reducing it's capabilities so taht the two playstyles are pretty much identical, I am a liberal in this matter, others are more hardcore and think 3PP should be removed entirely :o

Edited January 18, 2014 by phlOgistOn

[kiwi_laurel 24]

Do you honestly think there is that much difference in the way you play in the different views?

Not likely...

[floj 393]

Cmon, just imagine you're about to turn a corner with a load of zeds around it, all looking at the corner. In 3PP, you see them from safety, backtrack slowly and carefully move around them. In 1PP, you peek, get seen and then have to try to run away (gonna be a bitch when the stamina is balanced better) or fight. Both immediately make your current situation more perilous both to the first group of zeds themselves, as well as any other zeds or bandits in the area who might be drawn to the commotion.

 

Also it changes the experience. Only one of those situations might need new underwear.

[kiwi_laurel 24]

If the zombies are relying entirely on line of sight forever, then my hopes for this game are plummeting.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

My hopes that you (and others participating in these threads) will make a rational, reasoned and sensible argument about this plummeted into the ground pages ago.

 

The facts are simple and irrefutable;

 

3PP is exploitable (seeing things you wouldn't otherwise be able to see)

3PP is exploited (people gain situational awareness with zero risk to themselves)

3PP exploiting puts an imbalance into the game in the favour of the exploitee. Given the game is aiming for as realistic a vibe as is possible whilst retaining exciting gameplay, this is A Bad Thing^TM.

3PP exploiting can be fixed without forcing one viewpoint or the other on players (some like 3PP for reasons other than taking advantage of the exploit)

3PP exploiting can be fixed without splitting the community up across 3PP:ON/3PP:OFF servers (People like to play with their friends and every person has their own viewpoint preference)

 

WHY ARE WE STILL ARGUING ABOUT IT?

[tommes 331]

Do we have to start this debate all over again from scratch just because some new guy came late to the party?

 

@kiwi

You aren't bringing anything new to the table.

[svisketyggeren 662]

 

Btw has that pole reached 1% of the DayZ player base yet?

 

Either u are not reading all posts in this thread or u are in serious denial...or just plain dumb. I already told u that u only need 100 participants in a poll modelling a population of 1 million. There is no need at all for 1% of the dayz player base.

Edited January 18, 2014 by svisketyggeren

[Ken Bean 174]

You still have to expose yourself, even if only a little, to peek around (or over) a wall in real life.

If someone is spraying said wall with machinegun fire, you would not want to do that.

This is another problem with 3rdP as I see it, it makes suppression fire useless.

If you use suppression fire they already know you are there and you know they are there. In order to shoot back, they would need to run into your fire, so supression works.

Suppression fire not used to go ninja stealth anyway.

To me the topics has been solved long ago, by having two types of server and soon, two separated hives. That splitting the playerbase argument is plain bullshit. Sorry, but the playerbase already is split. In niht and day people, in server populations - only up to 40 people csn join a server - what the heck are you calling split anyway? Who gives a fuck if you join server a or server b or if you make something really surprising, playing on a 1st personnserver. I dont care and I play on what server I want. There is no need to be united with folks which doesnt enjoy the game as I do.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Ken Bean

[floj 393]

If you're suppressed, you cannot observe to see if you are being flanked, unless you poke your head up into the bullets.

 

It's a completely separate part of gameplay to stealth. So, it still screws suppression.

Edited January 18, 2014 by phlOgistOn

[Ken Bean 174]

If you're suppressed, you cannot observe to see if you are being flanked, unless you poke your head up into the bullets.

It's a completely separate part of gameplay to stealth. So, it still screws suppression.

You know that weapons happen to make sounds and bullets make traces? Okay, point, in real life they make traces. In the game not. Then you are going with your deadly sight and kill the surpressor by peeking? Peeking really grimm hard, I suppose.

This is so pointless. ^^

Problem:

How do you kill the suppressor by peeking? He cant see how grimm you stare.

So thing would be, after you peek killed him, you still need to go out of cover and using weapons to fire back. Useless tonsay that the surpressor will loese that fight, since he is so desoriented from the grimm peeking part.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Ken Bean

[floj 393]

That's completely tangential to what you're talking about...yet again, just avoiding facts and sending us round and round in circles. The people flanking you, do so silently. You get pinned by one squad/person suppressing you whilst another performs the flanking maneuver.

 

And FYI: Tracer bullets make traces, most bullets don't. Snipers would be pretty pissed off if all their bullets left a nice little line showing where they'd come from.

 

Jesus I feel dumber even discussing stuff with you.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Ken. The point is this;

 

If 3PP wasn't exploitable, then the person being suppressed would not know they were being flanked and would either have to risk catching a bullet to find out (by exposing a portion of their body to enable them to see), or would have to move somewhere else to get a better view, the latter of which runs the risk of running right into the flanking team (because they don't know where they are).

 

Currently though, because 3PP is exploitable, the person being suppressed can see the flanking team with zero risk to their health (camera viewpoint allows this) and knows where that team is going and can prepare for them. This is in no way realistic or conducive to good game play.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Monkfish

[Ken Bean 174]

That's completely tangential to what you're talking about...yet again, just avoiding facts and sending us round and round in circles. The people flanking you, do so silently. You get pinned by one squad/person suppressing you whilst another performs the flanking maneuver.

And FYI: Tracer bullets make traces, most bullets don't. Snipers would be pretty pissed off if all their bullets left a nice little line showing where they'd come from.

Jesus I feel dumber even discussing stuff with you.

On the ground, on objects, not in the air.

Wait, did you just...?

Funny though.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Ken Bean

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

On the ground, in objects, not in the air.

I understand the words, but not their order.

 

Or, in other words, what?

[Ken Bean 174]

I understand the words, but not their order.

Or, in other words, what?

You may try it from left to right.

[floj 393]

I think he's still talking about knowing the location of the suppressing group, the fact that this then enables a flanking group to move up unobserved has remained unobserved itself.

[Ken Bean 174]

I think he's still talking about knowing the location of the suppressing group, the fact that this then enables a flanking group to move up unobserved has remained unobserved itself.

Thats flanking, not suppressing.

[Ken Bean 174]

But holy Jesus, is it really so hard to join a 1st person server? I know, I so often did, strangely worked. :-/

Edited January 18, 2014 by Ken Bean

[fitzee 248]

Hello Ken Bean.

 

I give you some beans for your mastery of the trolling arts ;)

 

Regards.

[big_t 66]

You know that weapons happen to make sounds and bullets make traces? Okay, point, in real life they make traces. In the game not. Then you are going with your deadly sight and kill the surpressor by peeking? Peeking really grimm hard, I suppose.

This is so pointless. ^^

Problem:

How do you kill the suppressor by peeking? He cant see how grimm you stare.

So thing would be, after you peek killed him, you still need to go out of cover and using weapons to fire back. Useless tonsay that the surpressor will loese that fight, since he is so desoriented from the grimm peeking part.

 

 

The circular arguments have reached a starchy euphoric state of full potato. Nothing at all about fixing the issue. Just nonsense arguments in a hope to divert the main problem which is plainly obvious to everyone.

 

Monkfish dealt the final blow above http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/162565-fix-not-remove-third-person-perspective/?p=1681776

Edited January 18, 2014 by Big_T