Fix (not remove) Third Person Perspective

[fiese_moep 14]

I would keep both perspectives but with these changes:

 

1. Remove the headsheaking by running the first person view. There is a option in the setting by the most dont know it. And for me was this shaking the reason to use 3th person view at all.

2. Remove the ALT Button for the 3th person view. This would reduce the effectnis of 3th person if you camp on higher buildings. Cause you cant see down.

3. Change the perspective of the 3th person. Put the perspecive a bit lower that you cant see so good over obstacles.

Edited January 17, 2014 by fiese_moep

[gibonez 3633]

3rd pvp needs to be made completely useless in any pvp situation.

 

Fog of war, no chraacters being rendered in tpv, etc.

 

Anything and everything should be incorporated.

[tommes 331]

From all of the videos I've seen the 4th wall idea looks absolutely terrible IMO. I would definitely not be willing to play with that kind of restriction enforced.

WHY?

[tommes 331]

Ah yes, Dyslexi's video... isn't that the video where he was in 3rd person yet someone still snuck up on him? Might be a different one im thinking of

Who cares? Nobody said it's impossible to sneak up on someone using 3PP. It's just way harder because of broken common sense which then leads to ridiculous behaviour like combat mikado.

 

This again is an example why you guys are so aggravating. Completely ignoring the main issue and arguments while picking on side issues and posing as the one and only winner there. Get to the point man! The point is how to make 3PP acceptable for both sides? Stop playing grumpy cat! You're not as cute.

[tommes 331]

All what's discussed here from the 1st person advocates was to break or limiting the 3rd person.

How about you invent something here? That's the topic of this thread.

I'd be curious how you find something that will not limit 3PP compared to what there's now...because that's exactly the point of this whole operation: to limit the superhuman powers of 3PP.

[shagohad 124]

I just had a great fight in Berezino. We were at the school getting shot at from the factory. We assaulted it, not realzing the sniper and his support had withdrawn. The sniper was now inside one of the new houses looking though a window. He killed 2 of my friends, both with headshots. Nervously I inched around an opening scoping the surrounding area, because this is 1st person I cant see him if he cant see me. I see him at the last second, catching the glint of his helmet in the corner of a window, I hit him in the head. We must have fired at the same time, the bullet hits the door beside my face. Man it was fun.

 

In 3rd person we would have both been lying down looking over our respective ledges till one of us got bored and made a mistake. I dont want everyone to have to play 1st person, but it seems clear to me which is the more compelling way to play this game. 

 

From all the diehard defence of 3rd person exhibited here I say let people play what they want. You will never convince these people, why waste dev time on bandaid solutions for people who are happy to play an easily exploited camera angle. Ill stay on my 1st person server and love it and I invite you all to join me and see how much fun it can be :)

[floj 393]

I tried yesterday to explain a mate that some have an agenda to remove the 3rd person from DayZ.

You should tell your friend the truth. We want to fix 3PP not remove it...its in the thread title. And pretty much every single one of the last 25 pages.

 

But your story is good other than that.

[Ken Bean 174]

You should tell your friend the truth. We want to fix 3PP not remove it...its in the thread title. And pretty much every single one of the last 25 pages.

 

But your story is good other than that.

Yep, I know that this is another story. I also know that this topic is not removing the 3rd person, but breaking it, you call it fixing.

At least you guys don't retain from the idea to play with/against 3rd person player, however you want their playstile/feature to be changed in a way which renders it useless. And allow me to add, even though, this is pointed to tommes, who seems not to understand, that inplopping objects are ugly and not desired, that solution with the 4th wall are not everyones tastes.

In my opinion inplopping objects are desturbing my 3rd person immersion too much to enjoy the idea.

How about inplopping opjects for you 1st person guys. I'm certain you'll love that "fix".

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean

[soulfirez 901]

I tried yesterday to explain a mate that some have an agenda to remove the 3rd person from DayZ. He made a face if I would have said: They now are trying to play bowling without bowling ball.

He litterally said? "Whaaa?? What kind of...." don't want to finish the setence here. ^^

But besides of that, greetings. I'm sure she also has something intelligent to say that you could share.

um so you biased the topic with your own views and posed it as a question to him from your own preconcieved notions... no offence it aint quite the same thing. I need to see how you get romving the unrealistic exploit of 3rd view = remove 3rd view as you suggested to your friend.

 

Have to ask your not a politician by any chance because they are usually masters of twisting things to suit there arguement lol.

 

FIX NOT REMOVE 3RD VIEW.

 

You need to start argueing from the point why it doesnt need fixing why its not unrealistic why humans can see over 10 foot high walls to the other side till then sorry i just see a guy who likes to camp using 3rd view periscope to aid his play style not someone who wants a balanced 3rd view or is actually fighting to save 3rd view cause most of the people posting here want to merely balance 3rd view not remove it.

[Ken Bean 174]

um so you biased the topic with your own views and posed it as a question to him from your own preconcieved notions... no offence it aint quite the same thing. I need to see how you get romving the unrealistic exploit of 3rd view = remove 3rd view as you suggested to your friend.

 

Have to ask your not a politician by any chance because they are usually masters of twisting things to suit there arguement lol.

 

FIX NOT REMOVE 3RD VIEW.

 

You need to start argueing from the point why it doesnt need fixing why its not unrealistic why humans can see over 10 foot high walls to the other side till then sorry i just see a guy who likes to camp using 3rd view periscope to aid his play style not someone who wants a balanced 3rd view or is actually fighting to save 3rd view cause most of the people posting here want to merely balance 3rd view not remove it.

You are missing the point of that story. I know that it wasnt directly related to the topic. Thanks

btw

Do you have something with politicans? Is that ought to be a namecalling or something? It's the second time you are going strange about me being a politican. Who knows? Who cares?

3rd person is balanced btw as soon as you play on first person servers.

It's not that difficult. See, this are two different play stiles and rule sets. There are other games with different rule sets as well. E.g. one may play billard with this rules, another one with that. Problem rises if two player have no consens about the rules.

==> They either need to adopt the rules, inventing new, or playing the game separated with their own rules sets.

If you first person player would stay on your playfields, everything would be fine.

This is just common practice.

So please, do yourself a favour and stand to your own rule sets and playfields.

If you come to an 3rd person server, you have to adopt the rules on that server. - The rules are not adopting to you.

As said, common practice.

Everyone would call a soccer player an idiot who strayed somehow to a football game and then tries to force everyone under the soccer rules.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean

[floj 393]

Yep, I know that this is another story. I also know that this topic is not removing the 3rd person, but breaking it, you call it fixing.

At least you guys don't retain from the idea to play with/against 3rd person player, however you want their playstile/feature to be changed in a way which renders it useless.

So it's useless without the exploit rofl. I know where you're coming from now, thanks.

[soulfirez 901]

Yep, I know that this is another story. I also know that this topic is not removing the 3rd person, but breaking it, you call it fixing.

At least you guys don't retain from the idea to play with/against 3rd person player, however you want their playstile/feature to be changed in a way which renders it useless. And allow me to add, even though, this is pointed to tommes, who seems not to understand, that inplopping objects are ugly and not desired, that solution with the 4th wall are not everyones tastes.

In my opinion inplopping objects are desturbing my 3rd person immersion too much to enjoy the idea.

How about inplopping opjects for you 1st person guys. I'm certain you'll love that "fix".

In this post you pretty much state what i was saying about your play style you merely just want to leave a broken already game mechanic in as it aids your play style nothing about it being gritty or authentic as the developers wish the game to be lol no arguements on it being realistic just my play style me um me

 

You are missing the point of that story. I know that it wasnt directly related to the topic. Thanks

your right i am missing the point of when you retort to someone who offers a different view with what equates to pretty much lying to your friend to garner support?? please explain it to me again ..

 

I have already stated you need to make your own thread something along the lines of why 3rd view is perfect as it is and well at the end of the day niether side really has that much influence its up to the devs but seeing as they have already expressed an interest in fixing 3rd view i wonder which thread will be more usefull for them if they decide to ????

Edited January 17, 2014 by SoulFirez

[BL1P 252]

A good fix would be to put the 3rd person camera where the Models eyes are then the exploits would not happen.

We could then call it something like "1st person perspective" or something similar to that.

 

O wait a sec ....

[Artophwar 42]

It is fixing 3pp or breaking the EXPLOIT if you want to use the word breaking. If people want to play 3rd person because they like to look at their character or they get motion sickness then that is fine, but being able to see over objects, around/through walls is an exploit. The fourth wall idea is so far the best solution I have seen to this issue. It just shows you the same information that you would get in 1pp.

 

The idea behind this thread is not to remove 3pp but to make it balanced with 1pp. There should be no advantage to using either, it should just be a personal choice.

[Ken Bean 174]

The more I'm thinking about, the more I'm certain that this whole drama only can be fixed by either feign full 1st person server to pvp player in the server browser or by removing the player numbers entirely. That's how it all went wrong.

That's how the empty 1st person server happened to be. It's a chain reaction. No pvp player want's to play on an empty server, so they have their issues with populating them.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean

[floj 393]

And round and round we go... this needs proper poll of opinions to end the drama, not someone relying on pvp-centric points of view or elitism over which pov is better or worse.

 

I play 1PP and will never use 3PP.

I play 1PP but would use 3PP if the exploit was fixed.

I play 3PP and want the exploit fixed.

I play 3PP and think it should stay as it is.

 

Anything else people want in there before I make it?

[BL1P 252]

And round and round we go... this needs proper poll of opinions to end the drama, not someone relying on pvp-centric points of view or elitism over which pov is better or worse.

 

I play 1PP and will never use 3PP.

I play 1PP but would use 3PP if the exploit was fixed.

I play 3PP and want the exploit fixed.

I play 3PP and think it should stay as it is.

 

Anything else people want in there before I make it?

Add

I hate polls and think they are usless

[Ken Bean 174]

And round and round we go... this needs proper poll of opinions to end the drama, not someone relying on pvp-centric points of view or elitism over which pov is better or worse.

 

I play 1PP and will never use 3PP.

I play 1PP but would use 3PP if the exploit was fixed.

I play 3PP and want the exploit fixed.

I play 3PP and think it should stay as it is.

 

Anything else people want in there before I make it?

Your mantra makes no sence to me. You really never will use 3rd person? Really? Have you been rised in the believe that 3rd person is evil or something?

Well anyway, I don't care if you use it or not. You are free to hit numpad enter whenever you will or not. I have no interest in forcing, fixing or converting you into 3rd person. So yeah, everyone is free to enjoy his game. Limit yourself as you wish.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Wow, internet. Just... wow.

 

I left this thread on page 19 and have just rejoined it on page 26. I'm not even sure how it's possible to add SEVEN FUCKING PAGES to a thread that's already covered every base, angle and argument possible, and yet here we are. I've skimmed over the posts in between and it's mostly the same old tripe, consisting of;

 

- "3PP isn't broken! WAAAAAH!"

- "3PP only gives you an advantage if no-one else uses it! Herp!"

- "Just remove 3PP! Derp"

- "Play on a different server!111internet"

 

For the last time, I'll cover each of the points, in turn, so that everyone can understand shit.

 

- "3PP isn't broken! WAAAAAH!"

This simply isn't true. 3PP allows the user to see over and around objects they otherwise wouldn't be able to see over/around. This is a demonstrable fact and is entirely redundant of any opinion on the matter and is also irrespective of whether you use the exploit to your advantage or not. In short, stop repeating this as an argument against changing 3PP, because it isn't a valid one.

 

- "3PP only gives you an advantage if no-one else uses it! Herp!"

Wrong! 3PP allows anyone using it to see over/around something and this is entirely irrespective of whether other players around you are using 3PP themselves or not.

 

- "Just remove 3PP! Derp"

Not a solution. Completely removing 3PP would alienate a large portion of the player base. Besides, the 3PP exploit (and it is a fucking exploit; See the first point) can be fixed without resorting to drastic measures like removing it entirely.

 

- "Play on a different server!111internet"

Not a solution. What if I play 1PP and my friend plays 3PP? Are you honestly suggesting we don't play together because the solution to fixing the 3PP exploit is to split the community? Behave yourself.

 

HAVE YOU ALL GOT THAT?

 

Good. Let's move on.

 

There are two viable solutions in this thread that remove the 3PP exploit without forcing any play style or perspective change on anyone. They are;

 

"Fourth Wall" - Hide players/zombies outside of 1PP view even when using 3PP

Change Camera Axis - Move the camera about the camera's axis rather than that of the player's head (Follow-up post 1 - Follow-up post 2)

What would be far more constructive for this thread would be if people could decide which they would prefer. Or is that too difficult, Internet?

EDIT: Fix borked links

Edited January 17, 2014 by Monkfish

[floj 393]

Add

I hate polls and think they are usless

I just think it would counter the people that are saying 1PP servers are empty, therefore the exploit is fine.

 

From this thread I've seen plenty of people say things like

 

- 'Hmm nice to think about, I'll give 1PP a go'

or

- 'I don't like 1PP, but this exploit seems like it is affecting the game in a negative way'

and only a handful saying

- 'This is how I play, don't remove my ESP'

 

Then from the last poll I saw, about a third of the playerbase is 1PP only already - so I think it might solve the popularity/elitism argument to actually get some valid numbers from the forum base as to who thinks it's an exploit and who thinks it's a valid part of the game.

 

 

Your mantra makes no sence to me. You really never will use 3rd person? Really? Have you been rised in the believe that 3rd person is evil or something?

Well anyway, I don't care if you use it or not. You are free to hit numpad enter whenever you will or not. I have no interest in forcing, fixing or converting you into 3rd person. So yeah, everyone is free to enjoy his game. Limit yourself as you wish.

If you'd actually read my opinions, you'd know that I play 1PP purely because of the exploit - I'm in agreement with use of 3PP for certain uses (checking background for camoflage, checking where a wound is located to determine the direction of incoming fire, using it for a higher view when looking over panoramas). So I'd be in option B of my poll. Nice attempt to change the subject, I guess you have option D for yourself, would be interesting to see how other people go on the matter.

[Ken Bean 174]

I just think it would counter the people that are saying 1PP servers are empty, therefore the exploit is fine.

 

From this thread I've seen plenty of people say things like

 

- 'Hmm nice to think about, I'll give 1PP a go'

or

- 'I don't like 1PP, but this exploit seems like it is affecting the game in a negative way'

and only a handful saying

- 'This is how I play, don't remove my ESP'

 

Then from the last poll I saw, about a third of the playerbase is 1PP only already - so I think it might solve the popularity/elitism argument to actually get some valid numbers from the forum base as to who thinks it's an exploit and who thinks it's a valid part of the game.

 

 

If you'd actually read my opinions, you'd know that I play 1PP purely because of the exploit - I'm in agreement with use of 3PP for certain uses (checking background for camoflage, checking where a wound is located to determine the direction of incoming fire, using it for a higher view when looking over panoramas). So I'd be in option B of my poll. Nice attempt to change the subject, I guess you have option D for yourself, would be interesting to see how other people go on the matter.

Now it makes more sense to me, overread the poll part, thanks.

Anyway, I doubt that polls do much. Most people don't care that matter or are just happy with what they have, so they probably don't read many fixing/problem topics.

Edit

From experience I know that you won't get much feedback from folks which is satisfied at all. So if you release something the complainers outweight the pleased by multiples.

So that means if you get almost no feedback then there are no serious issues. There of cause can be folks which is surprised by something is working really well, they actually go through the hassle to join a forums and read and thank you etc, but that's a way smaller group of people than the upset ones.

The pleased folks tends to be a silent majority.

So no, polls on forums are not that trustable. It just covers a certain crowd.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ken Bean

[BL1P 252]

@monkfish

You are assuming that there is nobody who dislikes 3pp so much they would rather not play dayz than play with a disembodied camera view.

 

Have you got that now ?

Do you understand ?

 

Assuming your arguments are correct and that everyone else on the forums should follow your ideals is wrong.

 

Although to be fair if this only effects 3PP servers I dont care and should stop posting here.

If it was to replace the 1st person only servers then it does effect me and ill stay :)

Edited January 17, 2014 by BL1P

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

@monkfish

You are assuming that there is nobody who dislikes 3pp so much they would rather not play dayz than play with a disembodied camera view.

I have made no such assumptions. Furthermore, my suggestions do not force people to play either 1PP or 3PP. If someone hates 3PP with a passion, the solutions posited would have no affect on them. They could either choose to play on 1PP only servers, or choose to play on any server and only use 1PP with no disadvantage for doing so.

And if someone hates 3PP that much and would rather not play the game at all than play it with fixed 3PP as an option then they are likely in a very small minority, which the devs simply won't cater for.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Monkfish

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You guys need to stop trying to "win over" Ken and just ignore his posts. He adds nothing new to this WHOLE thread, I don't even see why you guys respond to him. I'm guilty of clicking that reply button, but we just need to stop for the sake of this threads readability.

[floj 393]

Now it makes more sense to me, overread the poll part, thanks.

Anyway, I doubt that polls do much. Most people don't care that matter or are just happy with what they have, so they probably don't read many fixing/problem topics.

Edit

From experience I know that you won't get much feedback from folks which is satisfied at all. So if you release something the complainers outweight the pleased by multiples.

So that means if you get almost no feedback then there are no serious issues. There of cause can be folks which is surprised by something is working really well, they actually go through the hassle to join a forums and read and thank you etc, but that's a way smaller group of people than the upset ones.

The pleased folks tends to be a silent majority.

So no, polls on forums are not that trustable. It just covers a certain crowd.

It covers the forum crowd. Statistically that should be a pretty wide cross section of the playerbase, so any results could be extrapolated to the overall playerbase.

 

and it's done

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/165673-poll-3pp-and-1pp/

 

Go for it guys

Edited January 17, 2014 by phlOgistOn