*Long Post* The Intuition System and how it can work within DayZSA (Read before flaming)

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

 if a bandit shoots at me, misses me, i shoot back in defense and hit him, am i the bad guy now?

 

Nobody ever addresses this question, because it fundamentally breaks every system like this. It's exceedingly easy to rack up dozens of kills completely in self-defense; then you start to get into weird suggestions like figuring out if they have "recently shot in the direction of a player," or something along those lines. 

 

Meh.

 

What we need is a system to recognize people you have seen in the game before. Then YOU can do all the identifying and categorizing yourself. No need for magical "intuition" faeries to come and whisper in your ear about how good or evil someone is. It's just an invisible bandit skin at that point.

 

If you haven't personally witnessed someone do something evil then you shouldn't know shit about them.

[Mutonizer 78]

- 20m max range mouse wheel action while hovering mouse over a player [ Remember ]. Only works when no full facial wear is worn (no gas mask, payday mask but works with helmet or bandana, etc).

- Input box appears where you type whatever you want in it. Limit it to 10 characters or something.

- Anytime the character you used [ remember ] on is within 20m, a simple mouse hover will reveal whatever you typed in (same head wear limitations)

 

1) Simulates that you can remember the face of someone you've seen before, even with the graphical and engine limitation making us all clones.

2) Does NOT have the game tell you anything but what you put in, this is totally personal.

3) Allows for disguises with facial wear if you do NOT want people to see your face or recognize you.

4) Allows for quick friend recognition, simple mouse hover really.

5) Can probably be handled client side since I'm assuming each new character has a unique ID.

6) Might allow linkage to Steam friend list, having friends in Steam automatically be registered as a generic "I know him", which you can then edit if you want once you actually meet face to face.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Mutonizer

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

- 20m max range mouse wheel action while hovering mouse over a player [ Remember ].

 

Exactly right. Or 20m equivalent range with a scope or binoculars.

 

Not only would this add value to staying alive (because your character would remember more and more people the longer you were alive), but it would add value to holding people up and forcing them to take off their masks.

 

Also, it would add a ton of meaning to masks - instead of just decoration, they would represent a real and earnest attempt to conceal your identity so wearing them, while useful, can also say something about your intentions possibly.

Edited January 6, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I posted this idea for a Player Identification and Classification system in Jul of 2012. It basically accomplishes exactly this, with a bit more functionality (you have the ability to basically take notes about what you remember about someone, and put them in a "category" of your own choosing).

 

It would let players make decisions based on their own knowledge, or the knowledge their friends have.

 

And, since death would likely wipe your memory, it would give everyone a huge incentive to stay alive longer - something everyone has been clamoring for.

[King of kong 1117]

You should get some kind of sanity effect after BBing/Feeding someone if they get over 200m away from you. As if you feel that they're going top die sooner or later

[DubPlate 38]

Some good ideas there, good thinking.

[MystoganXIX 78]

Heh... first sugggestion I've seen that I am not completely against concerning effects that are a result of "KoS"ing people.

 

As long as these "intuition" phrases wouldn't show up until you could actually see a person and put your crosshair over them.

 

Would also need to limit the range for it. I'm sure nobody wants snipers to be able to scan over the grass and tree leaves searching for a point in which an intuition phrase pops up... which pretty much tells them that they moused over someone. The sniper wouldn't have seen that person otherwise.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

Love it!!!!

Beans for you

[Plan_B 82]

I think the idea of being able to categorize yourself people is the best thing. That way, people who don't care won't do it. People who do care will do it.

[SageZ 13]

First of all how will the system distinguish if I am a bandit or not, what if I killed in self defense or how will it make me a medic? I can also see many ways to just abuse the whole system whichever way it would be built.

[Pandema 352]

Nobody ever addresses this question, because it fundamentally breaks every system like this. It's exceedingly easy to rack up dozens of kills completely in self-defense; then you start to get into weird suggestions like figuring out if they have "recently shot in the direction of a player," or something along those lines. 

 

Meh.

 

What we need is a system to recognize people you have seen in the game before. Then YOU can do all the identifying and categorizing yourself. No need for magical "intuition" faeries to come and whisper in your ear about how good or evil someone is. It's just an invisible bandit skin at that point.

 

If you haven't personally witnessed someone do something evil then you shouldn't know shit about them.

 

 

I like this suggestion, its a hell of a lot better than an invisible bandit skin...

[AGBenny 18]

I freaking Love this idea. Everything you said I agree 100%. Ofcourse like most people said it will needs tweaks to make it perfect but heck show me one thing in this game that doesn't need tweaking :lol:

[Tactical Soldier Gaming 20]

I was thinking that too if done in a proximity thing BUT it could be made more simple if made a scroll action just like "study body".

 

By the time you got close enough to do that you would already know by whether they tried to kill you or not haha.

 

I feel like it's just gotta be done the old fashioned way.

[Samuri_Bake_Pie 96]

I like this idea, however as previously mentioned I see this no matter how carefully crafted, will be abused. Also, seeing as how I normally KoS to save myself from future KoS (not the place to argue my methods) I do occasionally help out Bambis and not kill people, which is more closely related to how a real apocalypse would go. 99% of the KoSers here (including myself) wouldn't have the balls to kill another person within a few months of an apocalypse for a fact. It takes a lot to take a human life, and although this is a video game, I find it hard to kill someone begging for their life with nothing but a fireaxe to pose a threat. 

[KeyaKev 12]

I like the idea but WarZ had a similar thing and all it did was encourage KoSing/PvP. (I enjoy PvPing but a lot of people don't and this will stir things up quite a bit)

Edited January 6, 2014 by KeyaKev

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

Props for a well thought out post. I like the effort.

 

Two issues for me.

 

1) You probably won't get close enough to a KOSer to get this message before his bullets tell you his intentions.

 

2) As for the morality argument it just can't be done. No not everyone is a nutcase with no morals, but no two people react the same to harming another person. Some people punch some one in the face and freak out, others can shoot some one and freak out less. It just can't be done.

 

 

I really like this idea though so can I suggest this same type of thing, with out trying to say if he is good or bad? Things like...

 

"There is blood on his hands/gloves" If he has killed some one in melee combat OR if he has gutted an animal

"This person looks familiar" If you have seen them before

"She smells like salt water" If they have been in the ocean or on a boat

"This person looks clean and well kept" if they are a new spawn

"He looks like a mountain man" if he has been around a while

"He bares some scars" from combat he has been in

 

 

Those might not be great examples, but something like that would be cool.

[combatcomm1 234]

I think the devs just need to put blood on clothing of those who handle a lot of dead bodies. Blood is absolutely everywhere when people are shot so if you are looting the crap out of someone than you are going to get blood on you to.

 

So that way we don't need a mechanic to tell us how someone looks when we can actually see they have blood on their hands or clothes. 

[hrdrok 183]

Really like the idea of this. Make it simple. But I would have say that in order to receive these messages it would require you to be within 2 meters, looking directly at the player, and actually mouse scroll to select the "look over" option. I would hate for this to turn into a way for people to use it as an identifier on player location. Imagine walking along and a message pops up, "Man looks dangerous" and you don't even see any one. It would be a dead give away someone is hiding nearby. Kinda like using a ladder from the other side of a wall.

Edited January 6, 2014 by hrdrok

[Zollicoffer 200]

Intuition is a good concept, although I think the way you have it laid out would be too close to a morality system for my personal tastes. The only problem with it is that it would attempt to simplify many player interactions into general statements about whether they are good or bad. In practice, it would still be better procedure to follow the rules roughly laid out by Mutonizer, as no system would be more trustworthy than judging a player by yourself. In essence it would attempt to make that judgment for you, which would either work, and take away a large and very fun part of the game, or not work, and just need to be ignored.

What could be done instead are intuition statements, as per DevilDog's suggestion:

 

 

I really like this idea though so can I suggest this same type of thing, with out trying to say if he is good or bad? Things like...

 

"There is blood on his hands/gloves" If he has killed some one in melee combat OR if he has gutted an animal

"This person looks familiar" If you have seen them before

"She smells like salt water" If they have been in the ocean or on a boat

"This person looks clean and well kept" if they are a new spawn

"He looks like a mountain man" if he has been around a while

"He bares some scars" from combat he has been in

 

 

Those might not be great examples, but something like that would be cool.

 

Something like this would simply add new and interesting details, while taking full advantage of the text warning system. If the statements were limited to simple observable details that the technology can't effectively render, it would add some very good depth to immersion. And why relegate this to players themselves? If you walk within a certain distance of a player corpse, even if you can't see it you could get a message that says, "something smells funny," or something along those lines. That would put you on guard and add a very realistic element to some situations, without simplifying interactions.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Zollicoffer

[Griaumedis 14]

A combination of memorizing people you meet that was suggested in the previous page and a sort of inspect element when you are close enough. Inspecting a player would tell you how he smells if his clothes are clean, covered in mud or blood (option to wash clothes?).

[Slyguy65 499]

Props for a well thought out post. I like the effort.

 

Two issues for me.

 

1) You probably won't get close enough to a KOSer to get this message before his bullets tell you his intentions.

 

2) As for the morality argument it just can't be done. No not everyone is a nutcase with no morals, but no two people react the same to harming another person. Some people punch some one in the face and freak out, others can shoot some one and freak out less. It just can't be done.

 

 

I really like this idea though so can I suggest this same type of thing, with out trying to say if he is good or bad? Things like...

 

"There is blood on his hands/gloves" If he has killed some one in melee combat OR if he has gutted an animal

"This person looks familiar" If you have seen them before

"She smells like salt water" If they have been in the ocean or on a boat

"This person looks clean and well kept" if they are a new spawn

"He looks like a mountain man" if he has been around a while

"He bares some scars" from combat he has been in

 

 

Those might not be great examples, but something like that would be cool.

 

Well like I said its mainly for the one on one encounters I hear and see countless times. Honestly just in the window of SA release I have heard people over steam and TS tell me how they just happen upon other people and one ends up shooting the other after short/long pause. So it would be quite useful IMO. Not to mention I think it would increase curious natured people to go and check people out.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Slyguy65

[Slyguy65 499]

Think I will just bump this every other day then just weekly from now on, seems people give a lot of likes but that doesn't actually bump the topic so that is why I will be bumping every now and again.

[Kres 0]

I normally don't reply to posts or make any posts myself, but this is a really good idea. I also think I can contribute a little so here we go.

 

One issue that jumps to mind straight away (if its implemented with a really short range) is that people who are stealing/killing or anything similar will start to KOS (so that they can continuously get the jump on people), which in turn may increase the amount of KOS incidents.

 

The above could be solved if you are able to view a person from a greater distance (I'm for that). not sure what the distance should be but if you get a clear view of a person either from normal view, scope or binocs or whatever it is your using you should be able to get an idea of what the person is like. Some will argue that snipers can use that to spot people in trees and grass, but thats not really the case if implemented correctly (see below).

 

For your intuition/aura to kick in you simple can not mouse over a person for a second. You have to look directly (you aim) at the person over a few seconds. In other words, if you spot someone from far away and you use your binocs to observe (track them if they are running around) them over a period of time you might be able to pick up what kind of person you are dealing with and whether or not its someone you would want to approach.

 

Kres

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

The above could be solved if you are able to view a person from a greater distance (I'm for that). not sure what the distance should be but if you get a clear view of a person either from normal view, scope or binocs or whatever it is your using you should be able to get an idea of what the person is like.

 

So not only are there magical faeries flying around whispering into people's ear about who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, but now they work through binoculars too?

 

I like this about 1000x worse than the original idea, which I already hated.

[Kres 0]

So not only are there magical faeries flying around whispering into people's ear about who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, but now they work through binoculars too?

 

I like this about 1000x worse than the original idea, which I already hated.

 

Not exactly how I envisioned it...but with a bit of imagination you can think of possible reasons as to how it can work with the "realism" that dayz is trying to implement.

 

Just to give you an example. What if I'm scoping out this bandit and my intuition tells me to avoid the guy because he has blood all over his clothes.

 

Dayz is based around being realistic yet it cannot be so completely so (just look at zombies and the fact that you can sprint across the map with full gear). The intuition idea is great as it's not too far fetched and i think if you are watching a guy from a distance over a period of time you will start to get an idea for what type of person he or she is. It will help with the KOS issues and bring another interesting dynamic to the game as described by Slyguy.

 

Kres