No starter weapon removes survival instinct, and respect for zeds

[magus_taliesin@hotmail.com 0]

^not for me!

I keep seeing people having a hard time "I crawl through town and die blah blah" Don't go into towns! For frak's sake the map is HUGE. There are plenty of places to look for loot without going into towns. Tree stands' date=' barns, edges of towns. Look for camps, other people, etc. If you have no weapon, and you keep dying in towns, and keep going into towns...and keep dying, it's not the game that's faulty!

[/quote']

That would be great to do if the game didn't spawn zeds specifically on loot spots as you come up to them. I can rarely even get some empty cans to distract the zeds because even THOSE spawns are covered by more zeds. No means of defense = no progression without exploiting game mechanics flaws.

I have hit four tree stands with no zombies and a barn with no zombies around it. Patience and ability to adapt is key in this game just like it would be key in a scenario like this game simulates.

[CaptainAnt 0]

Xamot, are you running up to date? The current build specifically spawns zeds near loot when a player approaches.

[magus_taliesin@hotmail.com 0]

oh and added to my above, again, look for campsites. Not technically a 'loot' spot, but if someone leaves their stuff lying around, no much chance of zombies and their loss right?

---

Xamot' date=' are you running up to date? The current build [i']specifically spawns zeds near loot when a player approaches.

Yes, buddy of mine played last night for several hours, 1.7.1.5 with the beta for AO. If you look at the interactive map you will see that zeds do not spawn 100% of the time. You will also notice that most tree stands have a 0% spawn rate for zombies. The barn I hit must have had the zombies killed right before I got there and I was lucky enough to get in get loot and get out before they came back.

[CaptainAnt 0]

Any way you wanna cut it though, survival usually comes down to fight or flight instinct. We currently are offered only one option at spawn and until we manage to find a means of defense.

[magus_taliesin@hotmail.com 0]

Any way you wanna cut it though' date=' survival usually comes down to fight or flight instinct. We currently are offered only one option at spawn and until we manage to find a means of defense.

[/quote']

Yes, which is how 99% of the population of the world would find themselves in the same situation. Now that we've accepted that it's possible to survive without a gun, adapt and overcome.

[SASQUATCH_OZ 0]

It's not the lack of a starting weapon that is making you not wanting to live, its the fact that the zombies are kinda wonky right now with their super hearing and sight.

The zombie AI is, like someone else said, a WIP. You should be putting this blame on the zombie AI, (which I would partially agree) yet you put the blame on starting weapons, which really shouldn't affect how you start, as you should be stealthy

[magus_taliesin@hotmail.com 0]

I haven't found the zombies all that hard to get away from either. I moved past several last night while crouched and prone, and a couple got very close. If people are still on the 1.7.1.4 then yes the zombie AI was broke, but it's been toned down since. I did notice a lot of servers are not up to date.

[breetai3 0]

Any way you wanna cut it though' date=' survival usually comes down to fight or flight instinct. We currently are offered only one option at spawn and until we manage to find a means of defense.

[/quote']

Yes, which is how 99% of the population of the world would find themselves in the same situation. Now that we've accepted that it's possible to survive without a gun, adapt and overcome.

99% of the surviving population would be able to use a rock....

[CaptainAnt 0]

Any way you wanna cut it though' date=' survival usually comes down to fight or flight instinct. We currently are offered only one option at spawn and until we manage to find a means of defense.

[/quote']

Yes, which is how 99% of the population of the world would find themselves in the same situation. Now that we've accepted that it's possible to survive without a gun, adapt and overcome.

Ok cool, I guess I'll just abuse exploits like many other people do to advance past the starting level of gear progression? That's so immersive and realistic! Also, I don't even necessarily want a gun, I want a way to get rid of zeds outside of abusing LOS tricks by hiding in a tree, making them fall off of a slope due to pathing, or DC'ing. I don't think it's asking for too much? It would be a tradeoff to fight hand to hand with a zed as they could break your leg or poke a hole in you, but that's much more preferable to running around and getting even MORE of his friends on me, only incentivising me to abuse exploits more. It wouldn't tarnish the oh-so-holy difficulty of the game, it would just give another dimension and tradeoff to the player that I would add another layer of realism to the game, without the need to constantly be fiddling with zed AI and putting so many production cycles into QA with em

[prometheus111 1]

Hmm...why are you blaming the starting gear? It would be the same scenario with the previous starting gear.

"I've only got the makarov I started with so I don't care if I die... In fact... I've only got 2 mags left so I'll just kill myself so I get more ammo. Yay!"

It doesn't matter what the starting gear is as long as our reason for living is our gear we won't care if we die the first minute into our new life because we'll just get our starting gear back.

[Oddball_E8 1]

This is why some zeds should be faster than people' date=' can't just run away from all of them.

You would still be able to run inside though, but with no gun or other weapon...

[/quote']

I keep hearing this, but the fact is that zeds are actually faster than people. Its just that they have to stop to attack so if you just keep running they'll never hit you.

Of course, you can never ever stop so that kinda evens it out...

If they could run faster than players AND do damage to them, the game would be a disaster. Nobody would ever go anywhere near towns again unless they had a ton of ammo.

[breetai3 0]

It's not the lack of a starting weapon that is making you not wanting to live' date=' its the fact that the zombies are kinda wonky right now with their super hearing and sight.

The zombie AI is, like someone else said, a WIP. You should be putting this blame on the zombie AI, (which I would partially agree) yet you put the blame on starting weapons, which really shouldn't affect how you start, as you should be stealthy

[/quote']

I've agreed to that point earlier. If I knew I couldn't kite zombies, I wouldn't have done it. Certainly improving zed behavior would alter tactics...but give us a weapon until then. ;) If I had a weapon, I wouldn't be inclined to abuse game mechanics until they are fixed.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

I concur with XamotDB, I've had few issues with avoiding zombies in 1.7.1.5, and the few issues I have had, they were my own fault in hindsight. In 1.7.1.4, though, they were a legimate issue.

[breetai3 0]

Hmm...why are you blaming the starting gear? It would be the same scenario with the previous starting gear.

"I've only got the makarov I started with so I don't care if I die... In fact... I've only got 2 mags left so I'll just kill myself so I get more ammo. Yay!"

It doesn't matter what the starting gear is as long as our reason for living is our gear we won't care if we die the first minute into our new life because we'll just get our starting gear back.

Ive answered this already on the first page. Here it is:

"That is not true. With the starter kit you had everything you need to start heading wherever you wanted to go and assume you'll start gathering things along the way. You had enough to survive travel to another area. There was no instant requirement of gear gathering that makes you do silly things like aggro entire areas because it's simply easier that way to get stuff quicker than traditional sneak and gather. It's turned the coastline into the standard FPS style video game where living doesn't matter.

I'm not even asking for the traditional starter kit. Just give me a blunt object. Heck take the painkillers in trade. Wink"

[magus_taliesin@hotmail.com 0]

Any way you wanna cut it though' date=' survival usually comes down to fight or flight instinct. We currently are offered only one option at spawn and until we manage to find a means of defense.

[/quote']

Yes, which is how 99% of the population of the world would find themselves in the same situation. Now that we've accepted that it's possible to survive without a gun, adapt and overcome.

Ok cool, I guess I'll just abuse exploits like many other people do to advance past the starting level of gear progression? That's so immersive and realistic! Also, I don't even necessarily want a gun, I want a way to get rid of zeds outside of abusing LOS tricks by hiding in a tree, making them fall off of a slope due to pathing, or DC'ing. I don't think it's asking for too much? It would be a tradeoff to fight hand to hand with a zed as they could break your leg or poke a hole in you, but that's much more preferable to running around and getting even MORE of his friends on me, only incentivising me to abuse exploits more. It wouldn't tarnish the oh-so-holy difficulty of the game, it would just give another dimension and tradeoff to the player that I would add another layer of realism to the game, without the need to constantly be fiddling with zed AI and putting so many production cycles into QA with em

Who said anything about abusing exploits? I haven't done any of those things to avoid zombies. As for using a rock...sure let them get that close....even in real life you wouldn't last long.

No exploits used, and only died to zombies 3 times in about 6-7 hours of gameplay. First time I had no idea what I was doing and aggroed zombies right after spawn. Second time it was me not realizing a slope was too steep and I slowed down so they got me. Third time I got major wounds FIGHTING HAND TO HAND with the melee weapon provided by the game. My third life was the longest lived. This fourth life I am in cherno and have found the most gear, and kept zombies at bay by the provided safe zone of the docks, and raiding buildings when it's safe.

[SASQUATCH_OZ 0]

I've agreed to that point earlier. If I knew I couldn't kite zombies' date=' I wouldn't have done it. Certainly improving zed behavior would alter tactics...but give us a weapon until then. ;) If I had a weapon, I wouldn't be inclined to abuse game mechanics until they are fixed.

[/quote']

I agree for this version in the game, that yes a starting weapon would help you not abuse the mechanics, but when all the problems are ironed out, and the tweaks have been made; I think you will change your mind about the starting weapon being needed, as the AI will be better balanced.

[frodevil 15]

My idea:

The first time you spawn, you have a high amount of items. For instance, Makarov, 6 clips, 2 bandages, morphine, 2xPainkillers,flashlight and a hatchet.

Next time you die, you get less stuff. Maybe you spawn with all that same stuff except the hatchet.

Next time you die after that, you lose 4 clips of Makarov ammo.

Eventually your starting gear would degrade in quantity after every death, and after, say, 10 deaths, all you have left is a flashlight. The 'death counter' would reset once a month.

This gives the player a punishment for dying but an incentive to not fuck it up this time.

[Castle (DayZ) 23]

Do you really believe that the current zombie AI is the intended final functionality? Yes' date=' it's easy to cheese zombies right now. No, that's not always going to be the case. There's a sticky thread, right at the very top of the forum for you, that discusses this very topic and advises you that detection behavior is incomplete and partially functional. So maybe we should hold off basing our critiques of the other design choices on incomplete zombie behaviors?

And anyway, just because you lose the zombies doesn't mean you didn't just expose your position to 5+ players in the area. You can pull a nightpaws: run headlong through town with 50 zombies screaming at you, and then come to the forums and complain the game needs to be fundamentally changed because someone found you and shot you in your face.

[/quote']

You know going prone through dangerous areas has shown a higher percentage chance of me getting killed than just sprinting through as fast as I can. Of course when you couldn't lose zombies you had to kill them eventually, and as a result you wouldn't be able to check loot without saying "I'M RIGHT HERE SHOOT ME." But up until the point I had to shoot I would last far longer just running.

I didn't try not to sneak, but going prone through a dangerous place doesn't work. You are easily spotted and take too long to check everything, but you used to be able to avoid zombies with a lot of crouch running giving you some speed. Now zombies can hear you 12 meters away while you're prone, and infinity meters away while not prone, so there's no reason to ever sneak.

[jubeidok 495]

Gotta love those posts were people start off with claiming how long they've lived in an attempt to validate their comments, as not to be seen as whining.

But guess what, it's still whining. Everyone and their momma seemed to have had a gun in this fictional country. They're quite easy to find.

Love starting out with nothing, I was doing it before it was even forced upon me.

[CaptainAnt 0]

Everyone and their momma seemed to have had a gun in this fictional country. They're quite easy to find.

As a Texan, it's really not much of a stretch at all to expect for everyone and their momma to own a firearm, nor is it a stretch in the slightest to expect any given person walking around to be carrying.

[frodevil 15]

Gotta love those posts were people start off with claiming how long they've lived in an attempt to validate their comments' date=' as not to be seen as whining.

But guess what, it's still whining. Everyone and their momma seemed to have had a gun in this fictional country. They're quite easy to find.

Love starting out with nothing, I was doing it before it was even forced upon me.

[/quote']

Yes, who would expect to find so many guns a 25km^2 area that is made up of half-farm houses and half military bases?

Idiot

[breetai3 0]

I agree for this version in the game' date=' that yes a starting weapon would help you not abuse the mechanics, but when all the problems are ironed out, and the tweaks have been made; I think you will change your mind about the starting weapon being needed, as the AI will be better balanced.

[/quote']

definitely!

[TheGoldElite 0]

I think there should be no starting gun ever, people less inclined to run around shooting like a maniac, because now it takes time to acquire the gun, so to go deliberately griedfing after getting it is less attractive.

[jubeidok 495]

Gotta love those posts were people start off with claiming how long they've lived in an attempt to validate their comments' date=' as not to be seen as whining.

But guess what, it's still whining. Everyone and their momma seemed to have had a gun in this fictional country. They're quite easy to find.

Love starting out with nothing, I was doing it before it was even forced upon me.

[/quote']

Yes, who would expect to find so many guns a 25km^2 area that is made up of half-farm houses and half military bases?

Idiot

Haha, look at your overly aggressive response out of the fear of having those guns scaled back.

Sissy.

[xxDJBxx 0]

Yea.... I went ahead and fixed these problems when 1.7.1.5 hit, *in theory*

"Players Start with the Standard Boy Scout Equipment, lol:

DayZ Starting Equipment v1.0 Changelog:

- (1) Bandage

- (1) Painkillers

- (1) Flashlight

- (1) Hatchet

- (1) Hunting Knife

- (1) Box of Matches"

Edited July 13, 2012 by xxDJBxx