Why Mouse Acceleration and Responsiveness desperately needs Fixing

[machiavelli 38]

While we were taught the urban warfare in the army, we didn't do it at all like they do it in hollywood movies. And try to do that with m4 while in doors wouldn't be smooth either. Works with pistol maybe, but we weren't issued with one so we didn't train it.

But you sure a hell can turn or raise your weapon a hell of a lot quicker than in a game.

[Karmaterror 982]

If you completly dissable this you will make 1st person feel like L4D or Counterstrike, easy as hell to use, but gamey and unnatural. Just all nut up, slow ya roll when turning around and enjoy. This engine was made to simulate REAL  firefights taking place over hundreds of metres, not 60 players in a map the size of cherno, where you have to be able to spin in a split second because its "fun".

 

Learn some tactical awareness and neg accell will never bother you. 

 

It's not mouse acceleration tho, call it "maximum rotation speed".

 

And it's there for a reason, be thankful it doesn't also has inertia making you turn past your target with heavy gear :)

 

OMG devs....put that in!! ^^

[Mookzen 67]

Because apparently people don't know what negative mouse acceleration is I will say it again, as long as you turn your mouse along the x-axis slowly you can achieve turn rates almost like any 'normal' fps, but the faster you try to turn the slower it turns, that -cannot- be a feature, that's just bad.

 

If you want to simulate realistic body movement then the proper way to do it is to give us 2 pointers, one completely 1:1 raw input to represent where we want to aim and then another one that shows where the in-game character actually is, moving autonomously to meet the second pointer. At least then the controls won't seem like they are broken and we just need to get used to the design.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Mookzen

[Arty (DayZ) 47]

I have never had a harder time moving my mouse around in any other game. I have played Dayz for over a year and I still can't get used to the mouse. The worst part is trying to pick things up in a house, its like I'm fighting with my mouse every. Godman. Time.

 

 

First off, the X and Y axis are way off, they are working at different speeds, and then you have X axis going up or down when you turn around. That's just dumb. I don't understand why if i want to swipe left or right my char looks up or down. Then you have freelook and what happens in freelook is the up and down problem is gone, but the mouse speed is a lot faster, and now you also have positive mouse acceleration on top of extra speed added. So, every time you use freelook and then go back to turning around, you have to re-adjust to new mouse movement. This is so stupid.

 

I don't understand how some people are okay with it.

[Mookzen 67]

Some people ? Most apparently ! Including Rocket, he's like playing the game and going 'yup, these controls work well, this is my vision for the game'. He did an 6 hour long gameplay stream and not once did this shit come up, they got legitimately used to the badness of it.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Mookzen

[libertine 351]

The turn rate limit being to low when unarmed is really bad imo. I don't think it should be freed up to the point of normal shooters though. However, its really annoying to be just looking around, which must must do constantly while looting and try to focus on things while the screen is still moving (and at a low fps for many people)

 

My thoughts:

 

1. Mouse panning speed limit. I've been playing Arma since OFP1 and i've gotten used to the concept of slowing your body movement down, but the head movement is just too slow. Look around yourself, in the comfort of your own home and see if you can comfortably turn your head around, looking from left to 180 degree right, faster than in-game. The game is supposed to represent a survival situation and combat, where your life is on the line and the adrenaline is pumping, you would be able to look around much quicker, ignoring even discomfort, which i don't there would be anyway. I see no reason to restrict the head movement speed to the amount that it is. It makes it a little tedious and i'd like them to increase it quite a bit, but perhaps not eliminate it entirely.

 

2. Body turning speed limit when unarmed too much. I officially have gotten a little dizzy when going through the massive amount of houses we must to look for food. I like the amount of houses we must search, but it would really help if the body turning speed while unarmed was faster too. I think it should match the armed speed. It would also give you higher and quicker situational awareness. I think what is most annoying about it is how the human eye works. We don't scan over the environment in a line, as we pan around our eyes go from place to place, sitting there for a moment, then moving on. The problem with panning slow in relation to this is that my eyes want to move quickly to one area that is static, then the next, and so on, but because it takes so long to pan, my eye keep trying to examine a moving image on a 60hz screen running at a low fps with vsync off (tearing) that it constantly panning around trying to catch up with the desired movement. For body turning speed, it is usually a compromise between the intended purpose of turning your body around, OR the purpose of looking around with your head. However since the body and the head can also work together to look around even quicker, i think the body turning speed should at least match the turning speed while armed. There is a lot of headroom for quickening it up before the combat mechanics turn into COD.

 

EDIT: btw:, i just pulled out my rifle, which weighs more than an M4 im sure with all the goofy poser attachments i have on it and went from aimed in one direction with my body stance set for comfortable firing in that direction -> to 180 degrees and just a split second, able to hit a close range target with decent accuracy. It was much faster than in the game.

 

I think the needs of the non-combat situations warrant pushing up the panning speed limit - if only to test it.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Thane

[Karmaterror 982]

The view dosent go up and down when turning in 1st person....do all my looting and gunplay in 1st and iv never experianced that. And moving in free look should feel easier, you are only moving your head, not your whole body.

 

Even in free look its not raw input either, thats because IRL you carnt just snap your head around like you can in common fps games....let alone your whole body.  There needs to be a diffrerence in the free look and 1st cams.

 

The only people who moan about this are the ones that try to move like CS....find they carnt....then keep trying to adjust settings, or move the mouse quicker every time, wondering whats going on. Just move it slow once and you will see that its works great. You just have to stay controlled and precise and you will be fine. Start twitching out like your playing some arcade "one size fits all" shooter and this military simulator will kick you in the ass! :)

[imrevned 0]

I am glad I did not purchase the game myself if this is the direction the game is going.

[Mookzen 67]

Responsiveness, precision  and freedom of control is absolutely critical for a game and this clunky, unresponsive mess cannot seriously be acceptable, it must be a priority far above and beyond any feature.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Mookzen

[imrevned 0]

Responsiveness, precision  and freedom of control is absolutely critical for a game and this clunky, unresponsive mess cannot seriously be acceptable, it must be a priority far above and beyond any feature.

 

Exactly. While it may be more realistic to have this current, ridiculous, rotating "feature", it's also more realistic to not have 3rd person at all.

 

You have to choose which features will make it a better game and an easy-to-use/efficient aiming system is a necessity IMO.

 

Edit: DayZ isn't being advertised as a simulator and Arma 3 is, yet Arma 3 doesn't even have this ridiculous "feature".

Edited January 5, 2014 by imrevned

[Karmaterror 982]

Would you want it as a normal fps game? stupid 720 spins with 1 drag of the mouse? Its not as bad as people make out. It was designed to be as realistic as possible, not to pander to the masses that want every game to feel the same.....unrealistic,film inspired tripe. If this takes normal fps gamers out of there comfort zone then its doing its job. 

[imrevned 0]

Would you want it as a normal fps game? stupid 720 spins with 1 drag of the mouse? Its not as bad as people make out. It was designed to be as realistic as possible, not to pander to the masses that want every game to feel the same.....unrealistic,film inspired tripe. If this takes normal fps gamers out of there comfort zone then its doing its job. 

 

If it was truly designed to be "as realistic as possible", why is there a third-person camera angle available? Why can you sprint infinitely?

Edited January 5, 2014 by imrevned

[Arty (DayZ) 47]

The view dosent go up and down when turning in 1st person....do all my looting and gunplay in 1st and iv never experianced that. And moving in free look should feel easier, you are only moving your head, not your whole body.

 

Even in free look its not raw input either, thats because IRL you carnt just snap your head around like you can in common fps games....let alone your whole body.  There needs to be a diffrerence in the free look and 1st cams.

 

The only people who moan about this are the ones that try to move like CS....find they carnt....then keep trying to adjust settings, or move the mouse quicker every time, wondering whats going on. Just move it slow once and you will see that its works great. You just have to stay controlled and precise and you will be fine. Start twitching out like your playing some arcade "one size fits all" shooter and this military simulator will kick you in the ass! :)

 

That's your opinion, if you think its fine, great for you. I feel like my char was hit by a truck and cant turn his head like a normal person. 

 

I understand that they are trying to simulate actual muscle and physical movement of the human body but they are going the wrong way.  I am only hopping this is going to get fixed/tuned and not stay like that. 

 

Rocket said they called in a few guy from Arma 3 who worked on controls to also work on SA controls, but if this is the best they could do then we are in trouble.

[Karmaterror 982]

If it was truly designed to be "as realistic as possible", why is there a third-person camera angle available? Why can you sprint infinitely?

 

Sprint is obviously an alpa bug. No way we will be doing that when the game actually releases. 3rd is a compensator for spacial awareness, something we all have but no game engine can ever simulate. 

[eviltoast499 7]

 

Rocket said they called in a few guy from Arma 3 who worked on controls to also work on SA controls, but if this is the best they could do then we are in trouble.

I think the devs will do a good job tweaking it in the future. What I think puts us in trouble are the guys who always defend such clunky/glitchy design on these forums. Reminds me of having your legs break from crawling through doorways or getting stuck in hallways from the mod and the players who actually wanted that shit in the game just to make it more annoying to play.

[hombrecz 832]

Sorry if it was already brought up, but if you hold rifle, you turn a lot faster then when you have empty hands.

I think it has to be risen (hit space) though....and ofc, as good folks mentioned, turning your head only with ALT is win.

 

 

I am glad I did not purchase the game myself if this is the direction the game is going.

You must be a true fan of DayZ with your 5 posts, right?

Edited January 5, 2014 by Hombre

[Karmaterror 982]

I think the devs will do a good job tweaking it in the future. What I think puts us in trouble are the guys who always defend such clunky/glitchy design on these forums. Reminds me of having your legs break from crawling through doorways or getting stuck in hallways from the mod and the players who actually wanted that shit in the game just to make it more annoying to play.

 

Comparing mouse accel to bug is a bit odd to me. I wouldnt want any of those "bugs" in sa, i do however want this "feature" to stay. Moving around with full gear for real is clunky, go load a large bag with heavy gear and try to spin on the spot quickly, like in an FPS game.....the bag will completly throw your balance and you will probably end up on your ass. That dosent even take into account the gun weight and the footwork involved in a 180 to a stable firing position.

 

For me removing it is dumming the games simulator elements down, making it just another FPS. Keep dayz unique, keep it as a simulator. 

[csharp 47]

I wonder if i'm just really used to play games in RV engines, since i can literally play CS-ArmAII-CS-DayZ and i can't make it as clunky as people make it out to be :P Maybe those thousands and thousands of hours in arma has changed me somehow :)

 

 

Ps. I Like to point out that i started playing FPS games in -99 when i bought Q3A, so yes, i normaly know what i'm talking about when FPS-games are the subject.

[wgaf 251]

Maybe its' because i've spent so much time with the Arma engine, but I don't even understand what problem you purport to be having. 

 

Imagine the bawling on here if they turned gun clipping back on...

Edited January 5, 2014 by HCHellCaptain

[27 others 102]

I tried to explain what exact problem i see with the current mouse movement and tried to make a comprehensible example together with a suggestion, which i added to the end of the first post in this thread.

[tremanarch 42]

problem: in all shooters you control a floating camera with a glued gun. It could be compared to controlling the head / eyes

 

in arma

 

you control the torso!
 

big difference...

[exomonkeyman 103]

Uhmm. You ARE aware theres a freelook key right? Left alt key. No need for numpad. 

 

And I dunno what's wrong with your mouse but I can do a complete 360 in one sweep with mine in game. I have acceleration turned down very low as well.

I can't either, near impossible

[franzuu 211]

I made a thread on the same topic, check it out http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/160187-make-1st-person-less-clunky-remove-mouse-acceleration-deceleration-smoothing/#entry1609143 I have different suggestions

[imrevned 0]

I don't necessarily want the mechanic removed entirely, I am fine with learning something new and not having the controls be like CS and etc., but the fact that with literally no gear it feels extremely uncomfortable is what the issue is for me.

 

It needs to be tweaked a lot, and like stevebob said, you guys who are defending (which comes across as fan-boying) and pretty much saying "If you don't like it, get out!" are not helping the game's development.

 

Also, from what I have gathered, DayZ SA is going to be more of a game than a simulator (based off of Steam, and I can't find any official writing saying DayZ is a simulator), thus I believe this level of realism is not needed.

 

 

 

You must be a true fan of DayZ with your 5 posts, right?

 

 

Implying you have to be a forum member/post on forums to be a "true" fan of a game? Who are you to draw the line between a fan and "true" fan?

 

Sorry, but post count is a number, not a status or ranking. You have no superiority.

Edited January 5, 2014 by imrevned

[27 others 102]

Moving around with full gear for real is clunky, go load a large bag with heavy gear and try to spin on the spot quickly, like in an FPS game.....the bag will completly throw your balance and you will probably end up on your ass. That dosent even take into account the gun weight and the footwork involved in a 180 to a stable firing position.

 

If a bit of body control is present and if the bag does not dangle as loosely as a school bag, this is definately not the case.

Also, most guns are not as heavy as many people think. A fully loaded stock M4 weighs 3.4 kilograms. If you have weights at home, try turning around with 3.4 kilograms in your hand. The rotation speed is barely not affected. Especially if you hold a gun like it should be held (with strained muscles and a rather safe grip).

 

The heavy weight of the bag also does not influence the neck movement speed. No weight is resting on the top of your head, except maybe a light helmet or bandana. You should be able to look around faster than aim, but limiting your view on the direction of your arms instead of your face does not make sense.

 

Why are humans so underestimated? We have been walking and running around our whole lives, using our feet, turning around is not "difficult footwork".

 

And seeing that even without a bag and a gun, these controls are so clunky, i think there will have to be applied quite a bit of tweaking before full release.