System to Punish KoS

[Scotch Bingeington 18]

I am not for or against KOS here, but I do think we should have a system that makes people think twice before KoS. Robbing is more fun anyway right? 

 

I would like if the loot get ruined by KoS, the % of damage is linear to the power of the weapon used. For instance if you use a Mosin or M4 the chance of damaged loot is very high. A axe not so much

 

This idea is pure shit. That is all. The idea that you should be punished for playing the game a particular way is ridiculous. Especially a way so common.

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

Well in all reality the chance that you'd hit someone in an area where they'd have loot while shooting a gun is higher than if you're right on them with an axe, so that would make sense.  To me, the risk of always engaging in PvP whenever and wherever is the risk of losing your character and progress.  That's why I don't shoot on sight, or come in and try to shake hands.

 

However, in the same sense, you could also Axe someone right on their rifle, not hitting their flesh at all, so does having equipment give someone avoidance to melee strikes?

I struggle to believe that striking someone with a giant axe one or more times is going to cause less damage to their gear than hitting them with a single bullet.

 

Unless you're firing a 50 cal or hollow points.

Edited January 2, 2014 by MR DELICIOUS

[raynor009 204]

I am not for or against KOS here, but I do think we should have a system that makes people think twice before KoS. Robbing is more fun anyway right? 

 

I would like if the loot get ruined by KoS, the % of damage is linear to the power of the weapon used. For instance if you use a Mosin or M4 the chance of damaged loot is very high. A axe not so much

 

LeL you've obviously didn't play enough SA.

 

I was at NEAF looking for camo pants'n'shit and there was this guy in one of the police buildings. So I immediately pull my revolver out and went about killing him. Btw I did warn him before as I shouted "Bitch lookout!". So I aimed for his head and shot him like 1..2..3..4 times just to make sure you know. After I cleared the building and made sure no one else was around I went and looted him. Well guess what? His jacket was ruined and everything inside it, pants too and his backpack. Now explain to me why the fuck would the pants and backpack get ruined? I would understand if the jacket got ruined but fuck me why would the other stuff would too? Only thing that was still in Worn condition was his tactical vest. This damage system needs to be revisited and tweaked a little. Items deteriorate too fast when you shoot someone, its unrealistic.

 

YE YE ITS ALPHA... :murder:

Edited January 2, 2014 by raynor009

[Jolnir (DayZ) 5]

How realistic

ohhh and everything in the backpack getting ruined after one or two shots is somehow realistic? 

 

 

 

Just asking, do the people that enjoy the fact that so many do KoS really want the game to be that kind of experience? Aren't there games out there that does that better?

If your answer is no, what do you suggest should be done to change how people behave in the game?

 

 

 

Adding some kind of system to force people to play one way or the other completely ruins the immersion of the game, its not like staying alive is hard at the moment anyway, those that die every couple of hours are clearly doing something wrong, needing to be careful is one of the best things about this game.

 

Btw is this not a zombie survival game, do you honestly think that if that situation would happen in real life people wouldn't be killing each other for supplies, hell there would be groups of people just killing for the sake of killing, ones there are no laws to threaten people with they start acting like what they truly are and that is the cruelest animal on the planet. this game manages to capture that quite well, there are still some people who don´t shoot on sight, often just because you have a gun pointed at them, but if you handle the situation right both of you can walk out of there unharmed, and honestly people stupid enough to walk straight up to someone who is armed would not last long in a apocalyptic situation anyway, in fact they would probably be the first ones to die. now if you don´t want to play a game where you are shot at i recommend second life, it sucks but how could a game that is mostly about walking around talking to people not suck, it sure sounds more like what you are looking for then a zombie survival game.

[CyberVillain (DayZ) 17]

hell there would be groups of people just killing for the sake of killing, ones there are no laws to threaten people with they start acting like what they truly are and that is the cruelest animal on the planet. 

 

You must be American

[wgaf 251]

Thomas Hobbes was british, wasn't he? 

[CyberVillain (DayZ) 17]

Thomas Hobbes was british, wasn't he? 

If not mistaken he lived before the renaissance

[Element47 2480]

no single playstyle should be specifically punished by game mechanics.

 

and judging by the comments in threads about KoS, 80% of the community wants to hug&kiss anyway. seriously though, the interaction dynamics are what makes this game so enjoyable. i remember when everybody was crying out loud about killings and hostility in the mod, and Doc Wasteland suddenly singlehandedly changed the metagame by going out and healing people, against all odds. the community response was immense, and suddenly everybody and his aunt wanted to become a medic, or a medic bodyguard.

 

as evidenced by the overwhelming negativity towards people who dare to consider KoS a valid playstyle, there is more than enough players who are not murderous bastards. maybe its not as horrible as some butthurt rump-rustled tushy-tantrumed players want us to believe

[Tron Tachyon 1]

I am more for giving an incentive to being friendly or netural, than to punish KOS. But I guess this is just a matter of presenting the same arguments.

 

- Perhaps zombies could be even more attracted to the sound of guns fired or the gunpowder smell a shooter will have on him for a while after (maybe not too realistic, but hey – the game has zombies).

 

- Guns could malfunction occasionally, causing some damage to the shooter. The guns are probably all old, and not maintained, so that I guess could be realistic.

 

- All guns could be attached with a large red ballon on a string that can be seen miles away :O  

[Chronos Blackburn 149]

I already have a system set up to punish the KoS'ers

 

Its called a bullet. If you need someone who can deliver a bullet to a bandit, click the link below.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/161120-welcome-to-the-war-we-need-your-intel-reports/

[Tron Tachyon 1]

I play eve online a lot… a lot. And I can’t help relate the games, and the solutions to similar problems found in this excellent (well perfect J ) game of eve. This is also a sandboxed kind of game, with no clear purpose or “end game”, but everything is up the players and their play style.  

 

KOS is obviously a valid play style here, and a career path for many players (to go pirate). Much of the mechanics and “negative effects” of this can probably not be applied to this game, as it would be deemed “unrealistic”. Basically pirates get a “negative security” status when they kill someone unprovoked and not part of a war (or any of a thousand other reasons – the game is complicated ok J ), that means they cannot enter high security areas.  If anyone shoots anyone unprovoked in high security areas, they will get shot and killed by an AI police force.

 

However, if KOS is really seen as a problem in SA, there could perhaps exists a few towns with only low yield loot, with AI guards. Everyone will be able to enter, and shooting each other in these towns will still be possible. But the AI guards would then immediately find and shoot/kill the perpetrator, making this pointless. These towns could then be kind of a meetup place, where trust could be established under ‘safer’ conditions.

 

… or you could replace ‘AI guards’ with 'hordes of enormous mutant zombies' J

Edited January 3, 2014 by Tron Tachyon

[libertine 351]

The whole idea of DayZ is a game where nothing is done to change how people behave. 

 

It's human nature simulator. 

Watching Briggs and his clan play Dayz when it first came out, in a group, being tacitical, attacking zombies only. I'd say your wrong.

 

Its not a human nature simulator. You can't expect people to care about someones avatar as if they were real.

 

The solution that makes the most sense to me is just giving people negative humanity when you kill a survivor and below a certain amount, which allows for a few survivor kills in case of self-defense, you get a small red arm band with a red cross on it. The red arm band being what the remaining military gave you to eliminate the remaining population to try and stop the virus. A bandit killing a bandit gets positive humanity. A survivor gets positive humanity and after a certain amount becomes part of the resistance, knowledgeable about what is going on and gets a small blue arm band. I'd even be fine with people spawning as part of the military faction (with red arm band), with a basic uniform and rifle, but simulated to be lost, with little other equipment. The military always makes a great antagonist and is capable of generating a lot of mystery.

[Jolnir (DayZ) 5]

You must be American

 

Nope i have just studied history extensively. 

btw can you name any animals that are crueler then man can be? hell even our kids have fun by bullying each other, sometimes to the point of one them committing suicide and that is not even bad compered to what adults do.  

[Jolnir (DayZ) 5]

Watching Briggs and his clan play Dayz when it first came out, in a group, being tacitical, attacking zombies only. I'd say your wrong.

 

Its not a human nature simulator. You can't expect people to care about someones avatar as if they were real.

 

The solution that makes the most sense to me is just giving people negative humanity when you kill a survivor and below a certain amount, which allows for a few survivor kills in case of self-defense, you get a small red arm band with a red cross on it. The red arm band being what the remaining military gave you to eliminate the remaining population to try and stop the virus. A bandit killing a bandit gets positive humanity. A survivor gets positive humanity and after a certain amount becomes part of the resistance, knowledgeable about what is going on and gets a small blue arm band. I'd even be fine with people spawning as part of the military faction (with red arm band), with a basic uniform and rifle, but simulated to be lost, with little other equipment. The military always makes a great antagonist and is capable of generating a lot of mystery.

 

did you even read the description of the game before you bought it?

 

here it is just in case you missed it:

 

DayZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, in which players follow a single goal: to survive in the harsh post-apocalyptic landscape as long as they can. Players can experience powerful events and emotions arising from the ever-evolving emergent gameplay. There are no superficial tips, waypoints, built in tutorials or help given to players. Every decision matters, there are no save games, no extra lives, every mistake can be lethal. If you fail, you lose everything and you need to play again from the beginning with nothing but your wits, and your two hands. Fight the hostile environment, where every other player can be friend or foe and nothing can be taken for granted.

 

 

 

sure sounds like alot of people here want a pvp survival game, but also no pvp at the same time, unless they get a warning or something first, because otherwise they might have to scout out areas before entering them and use stealth to get all that military gear that should obviously be really easy to get, otherwise other players might have better gear then you, and that would hardly be fair, its not like they had to go out and get it themselves.

 

btw there is no wonder people kos almost every time they see someone when people just log off when you try and rob them, its allot more fun shooting someone then watching him log off after all. 

 

 

And lastly i would like to say i will be starting development on a new game that allot of people here seem to be looking for much rather then dayz, it will probably take some time but hand holding simulator is now in the works and will feature pvp flower giving mechanics.

[SEM (DayZ) 5]

Lol safezones, npc, karma best ideas to break game with mechanics that won't solve the problems but will break the game.

I don't need stupid karma systems that will make bandit from me only for defending myself and it doesn't matter if it's fully geared bandit or fresh-spawn who think he can get easy loot by charging at me with bare fists.

Npcs and safezones is the best way to give griefers another tool to abuse other players and limit the freedom of other turning game into mindless grind simulator. NPC with guns will also use a lot of more resources than anything else greatly reducing amount of loot and zombies.

 

Also I have great suggestion for most of players in DayZ who don't like KoS maybe don't go to Balota for once? Seriously any server I play on is like 60% pop Balota 30% Cherno 10% rest of the map.

If you thing I'm making things up ask any noob on the coast or watch some streams and movies from DayZ. It's like sitting on NWAF in mod and crying on KoS.

 

BTW For all ppl crying how they bought this game and now they are killed by other players remember this is alpha most of survival mechanics are not in game yet wait at least few month before trying to ruin this game with some crappy mechanics limiting PvP. Also don't try to turn this game into another modern MMO with different models we have enough of this crap on the market already.

Edited January 3, 2014 by SEM

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

Lol safezones, npc, karma best ideas to break game with mechanics that won't solve the problems but will break the game.

I don't need stupid karma systems that will make bandit from me only for defending myself and it doesn't matter if it's fully geared bandit or fresh-spawn who think he can get easy loot by charging at me with bare fists.

Npcs and safezones is the best way to give griefers another tool to abuse other players and limit the freedom of other turning game into mindless grind simulator. NPC with guns will also use a lot of more resources than anything else greatly reducing amount of loot and zombies.

 

Also I have great suggestion for most of players in DayZ who don't like KoS maybe don't go to Balota for once? Seriously any server I play on is like 60% pop Balota 30% Cherno 10% rest of the map.

If you thing I'm making things up ask any noob on the coast or watch some streams and movies from DayZ. It's like sitting on NWAF in mod and crying on KoS.

 

BTW For all ppl crying how they bought this game and now they are killed by other players remember this is alpha most of survival mechanics are not in game yet wait at least few month before trying to ruin this game with some crappy mechanics limiting PvP. Also don't try to turn this game into another modern MMO with different models we have enough of this crap on the market already.

 

While all that is true.

We already got games where KoS is the only thing you do in those games. And this one is NOT one of them.

[Gandolaf 81]

Nope i have just studied history extensively. 

btw can you name any animals that are crueler then man can be? hell even our kids have fun by bullying each other, sometimes to the point of one them committing suicide and that is not even bad compered to what adults do.  

I heard dolphins can be real douches. Also any predator bigger than a human. But animals don't really have a sense for cruelty,so it doesn't make much sense.

[frosti 2165]

I heard dolphins can be real douches. Also any predator bigger than a human. But animals don't really have a sense for cruelty,so it doesn't make much sense.

 

Dolphins are bullies of the seas. And yes, they do have sense of cruelty.

[Chauz 166]

This thread is one of many, I all I get from these threads is

 

I am totally not against KoS but lets implement something that will reduce KoS,

I am not against killing fresh spawns, but lets add something that prevents it.

[SEM (DayZ) 5]

While all that is true.

We already got games where KoS is the only thing you do in those games. And this one is NOT one of them.

Yes I agree that's why I hope devs will add new things to do rather than try limit the only thing we have at the moment (PvP).

Most of ppl who say they hate KoS think only how to castrate PvP rather than add new content so players will have more things to do apart from killing each other.

[Tron Tachyon 1]

Another incentive not to fire guns too much, could bet that it would scare of companion dogs, which I’ve read somewhere would come. This could also be an incentive to use silent, slow loading and less lethal/precise weapons, like bows/arrows instead. 

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

Yes I agree that's why I hope devs will add new things to do rather than try limit the only thing we have at the moment (PvP).

Most of ppl who say they hate KoS think only how to castrate PvP rather than add new content so players will have more things to do apart from killing each other.

 

A major issue is the fact that Bandits gets ALL the benefits.

The friendlies gets all the disadvantages.

 

Baditry (aka KoS-bandits) = kill you as soon as they spot you, you loose everything, they gain everything. No threat what so ever.

Friendlies = avoid/try and communicate/run up to someone (and probably die because that is foolish), in most of these cases they gets smacked in the face and killed because they're trying to interact with someone else than themselves or a mate of theirs.

 

We need bandit skin back until there is a better solution.

[SEM (DayZ) 5]

A major issue is the fact that Bandits gets ALL the benefits.

The friendlies gets all the disadvantages.

 

Baditry (aka KoS-bandits) = kill you as soon as they spot you, you loose everything, they gain everything. No threat what so ever.

Friendlies = avoid/try and communicate/run up to someone (and probably die because that is foolish), in most of these cases they gets smacked in the face and killed because they're trying to interact with someone else than themselves or a mate of theirs.

 

We need bandit skin back until there is a better solution.

 

Bandit skin didn't solved ANY problems with KoS. This broken mechanic escalated problem even more because DayZ have very low TTK so usually the guy who won fire-fight received bandit skin and after that all ppl just KoS you because you had it.

 

Tbh I don't understand you. Playing as a hero is a challenge. Most of zombie apocalypse scenarios have more hostile ppl than friendly ones that's why it's so thrilling and people who can do simple good act to others are so awesome. It's not because of game mechanics it's how human mentality works.

Often after I gear up I'm walking around coast trying to learn new players how tu survive. Ppl don't even know how to play friendly. Most of them are ready to run straight to armed group yelling friendly without second thought.

Why we have to add some broken mechanics only to please players that have no idea how to play this game and have completely no idea about zombie survival universe. They are usually the ones who die first in all movies :P.

 

So once again I will say that NO for broken barriers in PvP instead add more things to do so players will treat PvP as an addition to a game not the main purpose.

 

BTW "Baditry (aka KoS-bandits) = kill you as soon as they spot you, you loose everything, they gain everything."

You loose most of loot from the body playing this way also the guy you try to shoot can get away and have more friends hiding around.

Edited January 3, 2014 by SEM

[dirtyzerg 4]

pvp is staying...along with KoS..

 

look..the thing is..no matter what they do to discourage KoS the majority of people who do it (including myself and my friends..) do it for the sheer enjoyment..I could care less about loot being destroyed or me getting some "bandit" appearance..hell they could make it where if you kill 15 innocent survivors/"heroes" you start bleeding to death and unable to stop it and i'd still kos..

 

even the ones who do care about loot being destroyed..guess what will happen ? hold up or knock out with a shot, handcuff...take blood..take loot...and then..execute..so you still die either way

 

what else would you have me do after gearing up ? kill zombie npcs? build bases ? really..this isn't minecraft..

Edited January 3, 2014 by dirtyzerg

[rn_max 202]

No deliberate punishment ... no game mechanic nerfing ... just no.

 

Not another KoS topic ... it is nothing more than player behaviour that makes DayZ anything it is perceived to be at any time.

 

Don't like that?  Take matters into your own hands, go postal vigilante, change what server you play on, change who you play with ... just all of you stop wasting your sugar coated tears and space for worthwhile topics in the forum.

 

I don't kill on sight and have not been killed on sight in over a year.  Get over yourselves and wise up.  Stop feeding the insect torturers, you fools, get on with the game.

Edited January 3, 2014 by RN_Max