To Rocket & the “Hardcore” crowd

[SLASH-7 27]

I don't get why we need to be seperated into "two camps", we are all testing the same game and we all have different opinions and ideas on things. While we are for sure helping shape the mod, all the final decisions are coming from Rocket.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=13515&pid=134403#pid134403

There is a post by Rocket from a thread with the exact same content as this, please give it a read through.

[Cyberman128 0]

Too many games have died simply because the hardcore crowd always slow down the progression of the game. ''we cant have this it fucks up that'' and so on.

Complete bullshit. Name one game as an example of this.

Aces High' date=' World War 2 Online, GunZ: The Duel, Soldier Front, Navy Field.

Need I go on? All of them are pretty much dead to the public eye because of elitist pricks too scared of losing their "hardcore" artificial advantage that they run every budding player off in a torrential downpour of shitposting. If you think you're so "hardcore" then go join the military, plain and simple. Games are meant to be enjoyed, and DayZ is not enjoyable unless you've an NVG wielding bandit that camps on the radio tower near Cherno and throws flares in town to pick people off. There's no interaction, no talking, and a complete disregard for helping along any playstyle other than mass deathmatching. Zombies get harder and all that happens is the survivors can't shoot back without attracting a horde on them. If this is DayZ, then rocket needs to come out and say so, maybe then we can let the hype die down and get back to game development, but if he wants to make more than a persistent world Free For All ArmA2 game, he's going to have to make some serious statements.

[/quote']

Hi I'm not a bandit, I have only killed once and that was this one bandit way way back and I really enjoy Day Z.

[Krobar 75]

I'm a hardcore player, but not a punk ass bandit.

[UbiquitousBadGuy 846]

I have no problem deleting posts that are simply attacks on other posters or troll attempts. The community does not need anymore petty drama from thin-skinned individuals who can't take criticism.

[Mars (DayZ) 6]

Post constructive posts (or polite deconstructive ones' date=' whichever).

"Me-too" posts are annoying and unnecessary.

[/quote']

It shows how many forum active members agree with something, and how many do not.

There is nothing in the forum rules about this by the way. Gooby pls.

Anyways, I dont mind the changes, Rocket is testing the game (Alpha?), he could up the intensity to level 9999 for all I care. All for the sake of alpha testing. People will complain, and he will comply and tone it down, that is what is all about. I see you enjoy the game even with its bugs, annoying players and recent punishing difficulties, good. If you want to suggest something, do so, but coming here and complain about other players freedom of posting is like, wtf and im being sincere here.

Rocket understands this perfectly, as he has been heavily twaking difficulty lately. Just dont worry, suggest things, give feedback and just dont mind other users.

[NigeyS 16]

I cba reading through 4 pages of more whining, but i'll throw in my 2 cents worth, i'm new to Dayz, and new to arma 2, and i'll be the first to admit i find dayz very challenging, very tedious at times, and quite unstable when patches go titsup, but i also realise this is a specific type of game, that is very much a work in progress, and will eventually reach a point where most people are happy with what theyre playing. Give it time, patients, and understand this is NOT ..

Nigel

[osiriszoran 33]

Too many games have died simply because the hardcore crowd always slow down the progression of the game. ''we cant have this it fucks up that'' and so on.

Complete bullshit. Name one game as an example of this.

Aces High' date=' World War 2 Online, GunZ: The Duel, Soldier Front, Navy Field.

Need I go on? All of them are pretty much dead to the public eye because of elitist pricks too scared of losing their "hardcore" artificial advantage that they run every budding player off in a torrential downpour of shitposting. If you think you're so "hardcore" then go join the military, plain and simple. Games are meant to be enjoyed, and DayZ is not enjoyable unless you've an NVG wielding bandit that camps on the radio tower near Cherno and throws flares in town to pick people off. There's no interaction, no talking, and a complete disregard for helping along any playstyle other than mass deathmatching. Zombies get harder and all that happens is the survivors can't shoot back without attracting a horde on them. If this is DayZ, then rocket needs to come out and say so, maybe then we can let the hype die down and get back to game development, but if he wants to make more than a persistent world Free For All ArmA2 game, he's going to have to make some serious statements.

[/quote']

So YOU get to decide how players want to play in a SANDBOX SURVIVAL GAME?

No. the world has psychopaths. Deal with it or die trying.

[lev 39]

A hardcore crowd can be very good sometimes since you tend to get a more stable playerbase that dont stop playing unless you really fuck up (Star wars galaxies).

But I do however dislike the conservative nature of the hardcore crowd and their way to hate on any original ideas. The reason for this I believe is that the hardcore crowd always figure out a way to exploit intended mechanics in games and once change is on the way they lose their edge.

DayZ is a very unique idea. So naturally the Casual gamers want to change things that make the game less tidious and difficult and the hardcore gamers hate their ideas.

Too many games have died simply because the hardcore crowd always slow down the progression of the game. ''we cant have this it fucks up that'' and so on. And all too many games have died because it turned into a casual easy-mode that gets boring after half an hour.

Uh, I don't think you quite understand the what the "hardcore" crowd of Arma2 is. Hardcore in Arma2 is playing on expert settings, with ACE ACRE and any other realism mods available. It's learning how to:

-land nav with only a map and a compass while being dropped in an entirely random area

-properly execute fireteam, squad, and company sized tactics to accomplish the objective.

-use proper radio protocol with radio discipline so you can communicate effectively at range.

-how to perform all roles of a company so that you can do what the team needs (JTAC, FO, FTL, SQL, 1IC, 2IC, RTO, etc)

-etc

Unlike other games a lot of games, hardcore in Arma2 is the skill set you develop from playing the game. It doesn't matter what mod or difficulty or set of features you are playing with, these skills translate across. If anything, the game only gets easier by removing harder elements (absence of stamina in DayZ, absence of wind, being able to meta game, etc).

Too many new players are joining DayZ, thinking they are "hardcore" or understand what "hardcore" means in an Arma context because they are used to conventions used by the rest of the gaming industry. There is nothing related to "hardcore" about having the best gear, sociopath like PvP, gamma exploits, duping exploits, disconnecting on contact, etc. Those are merely ways people play the game; some choose to kill everyone, some choose to cheat. There is no mechanic that a real hardcore player exploits; they simply know how to play the game.

I would also like to clarify the difference between elitism and elite. Elite players can execute any of the skills sets and more that I identified above. You don't have to be an arrogant jackass to be an elite player. Elitism is being an arrogant jackass regardless of the reason.

[MrMorton 0]

Rocket' date=' you’ve done a sterling job on creating an original product in this oversaturated world of generic first person shooters. Myself and my mates are having a blast meeting up and exploring the zombie wasteland striving to survive with nothing but bad breath & a spork between us, removal of the starter gun was a bit hmmmm at the start but it’s just forced a different play style on us as we try to get each of us armed (although I would prefer the starter gun personally) but above all were having fun and enjoying the game.

To the “hardcore” crowd, tone it down a bit please, we all know this is a niche game meant to be hard, unforgiving and brutal to play but I think this game can have all those qualities that we all want without this relentless desire to make the game a masochistic experience. Night time is broken plain and simple, to think otherwise is plain stupid, breaking legs from 2ft isn’t hardcore, it’s unrealistic and quite frankly annoying as fuck alongwith the other annoying problems that are popping up and that’s the problem I can see with this great “GAME” the vocal minority who want some sort of digital flagellation experience seem to be steering this mod away from the greatness it can be to something only a small select few with endless free time on their hands would want to play.

Yes we all want it to be hard and we don’t want shit handed to us on a plate but you all seem to forget one thing.. this is a game, its meant to be enjoyable, playable and something we want to keep logging into because of mistakes we made not because of some insanely stupid difficulty level ramped up in the name of “realism”. Anyways just wanted to get that off my chest as the more I read these forums the more it seems like there are 2 camps, those that have extreme expectations of what this should be and those that want to you know enjoy it

[/quote']

if you want something changed, I would suggest going to the suggestions forum and writing up a comprehensive post detailing:

-what you want

-why it benefits the gameplay experience

-why it is an improvement over the current system

-possible bias and appropriate compensation

saying "ITS BAD BECAUSE IT IS" does nothing to convince anyone you are correct or that your argument has merit, and does not consider rocket's, nor anyone else's, opinions and reasonings on the subject.

[JimiEZ (DayZ) 0]

Not saying any game should be dumbed down but the Hardcore crowd sometimes seem to be a bit too hatefull agains new thinking.

I agree that there entitled dicks on the both sides' date=' but I'd argue that most people who consider themselves "HC" (which is a stupid fucking term to begin with, I think) have nothing against new ideas [i']per se, they just quickly get tired of hearing the same "night is toe hard gief nightvizion and 'I win' buttan plox durr hurr' - shit pretty quick.

Out of the top of my head is Crpg. Even though its not 'dead' only the really hardcore people still play it and they QQ like never before.

Yeah, well Crpg's problem was the utterly stupid out-of-game inventory/skill management system which I think drove most new players away from it. Nothing to do with "HC", just shitty design. Though quite likely also the best you could do with M&B's engine.

Darkfall suffered the same fate since the hardcore FPS gamers wanted quakefall and it didnt help that Aventurine have no clue how to make a sandbox mmo.

I'm absolutely certain that there is a surprisingly large demand for a skill-based / FPS - type MMO game, that isn't shit. Problem with all the current candidates is that they've simply been pretty shitty games overall. In some ways, DayZ actually is very close to my ideal MMO (except it doesn't really have the 'massive' part in it).

Project reality is has been slowly dying for some time now because the hardcore crowds (who ofc have all the servers) refuse to put certain maps in rotation and play the new mods so people get bored of the same maps day in and day out.

Are we talking ARMA2 or BF2 here? Since I think BF2's PR has been doing pretty well overall but is starting to suffer from old age and ARMA2's PR was sort of redundant to begin with (one word, err, abbreviation: ACE).

I consider myself a hardcore gamer but unlike some I dont act like a butthurt douchebag on the forums and try to run a personal crusade agains mainstream gaming.

I actually don't even consider myself that much of a "Hardcore gamer", in fact most of the time I spend my time playing rather mainstream games. However, occasionally I do like to have a taste of a more demanding experience and when I do, I don't want it watered down.

To put in to an analogy, most of the time I drink Coke, but occasionally I feel like having a glass of good whisky. When I do, I don't want to ruin a perfectly good drink by mixing it with Coke, even though I otherwise have nothing against it. So essentially, the "baaawh, make it easyer rockit" - crowd are trying to ruin my drink, and I don't like it.

[Mars (DayZ) 6]

To put in to an analogy' date=' most of the time I drink Coke, but occasionally I feel like having a glass of good whisky. When I do, I don't want ruin a perfectly good drink mixing it with Coke, even though I otherwise have nothing against it. So essentially, the "baaawh, make it easyer rockit" - crowd are trying to ruin my drink, and I don't like it.

[/quote']

Thing is, this is not only YOUR drink. Sorry.

Lal, choose a better analogy.

[Robert512 12]

I actually don't even consider myself that much of a "Hardcore gamer"' date=' in fact most of the time I spend my time playing rather mainstream games. However, occasionally I do like to have a taste of a more demanding experience and when I do, I don't want it watered down.

To put in to an analogy, most of the time I drink Coke, but occasionally I feel like having a glass of good whisky. When I do, I don't want ruin a perfectly good drink mixing it with Coke, even though I otherwise have nothing against it. So essentially, the "baaawh, make it easyer rockit" - crowd are trying to ruin my drink, and I don't like it.

[/quote']

I think this puts it nicely how I think about this mod.

And please something peaty from Ardbeg would do nicely :9

[UbiquitousBadGuy 846]

To put in to an analogy' date=' most of the time I drink Coke, but occasionally I feel like having a glass of good whisky. When I do, I don't want ruin a perfectly good drink mixing it with Coke, even though I otherwise have nothing against it. So essentially, the "baaawh, make it easyer rockit" - crowd are trying to ruin my drink, and I don't like it.

[/quote']

Thing is, this is not only YOUR drink. Sorry.

Lal, choose a better analogy.

Except that Whiskey producers wouldn't change their brand and formula to make it taste more "Coke-y".

They're both a different taste and experience and can attract different but at times, overlapping, demographics.

[ZtruK 0]

Nighttime is fine, some of the best stuff happens then. Use Chemlights, flashlights flairs or play on an offset server if you hate it so much.

[Reign19k 1]

But I do however dislike the conservative nature of the hardcore crowd and their way to hate on any original ideas.

I find this line amusing for some reason.

Also, if Arma2 was "dead" in the first place. How did this mod come about? There's literally hundreds of titles that cater to a more casual crowd. I am pretty sure Rocket is aware of most of the circumstances that make a game successful. I think the community should spend less time giving the admins marketing advice and "mechanics" that have been rehashed over and over again. Think outside the box. Real suggestions should be carefully thought out and developed through days or even weeks of playtime. Hence why I have literally zero suggestions posted here. I have quite a few written down that I am working on. Even more that were written down and trashed. You need to have some people that aren't willing to just throw a bunch of shit against the wall and see what sticks.

[armadayz 0]

Also' date=' if Arma2 was "dead" in the first place. How did this mod come about?

[/quote']

I dont know. But it did. And it was awesome.

[Robert512 12]

There is another Whisky anology. You actually have to learn how you drink it and what you are drinking. After that it is either tasting for more and different ones or you go back to Cola.

In that analogy I regard DayZ as a new edition of a very fine single malt called Arma, Arma has been maturing well, but there is now way in telling how DayZ will taste after maturing in a other casket for a bit longer.

Its not exact science, a 10 year old single malt can taste fantastic, a 12 old could well on its way to be mixed with cola, but until we get there you can't see if has to be mixed with cola or that it is better to drink it pure (with perhaps a few drops of water).

[Rinner23 5]

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

i am working on recompiling the "rocket said" thread that was here before the wipe. in regards to your post:

"DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel, dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations. These are things game designers normally take care with." - rocket

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=588&pid=4431#pid4431

if that does not sound like something you want to experience, this mod might not be for you.

[JimiEZ (DayZ) 0]

To put in to an analogy' date=' most of the time I drink Coke, but occasionally I feel like having a glass of good whisky. When I do, I don't want ruin a perfectly good drink mixing it with Coke, even though I otherwise have nothing against it. So essentially, the "baaawh, make it easyer rockit" - crowd are trying to ruin my drink, and I don't like it.

[/quote']

Thing is, this is not only YOUR drink. Sorry.

Lal, choose a better analogy.

Let's see. It's a non-commercial mod with a cliff-like learning curve, developed for a hardcore military simulator by a guy who according to his own words, "enjoys the tears of his players" and it just keeps getting harder and more complex with every update. I'd say it's whisky alright. ;)

[NoxZA 2]

People seem to be confusing the shooting down of stupid ideas with shooting down all ideas made by new players. If you have a good suggestion that adds to the game rather than detract from it then I am sure we all can have a nice discussion on how this can or cannot be put into the mod. If you, however, make stupid suggestions that only detract form the experience, such as limiting PvP because you can't stand being shot at and having all of your loot lost, expect to be flamed. There is a difference.

Take time to actually read the suggestion to see why they receive so much hate.

[armadayz 0]

People seem to be confusing the shooting down of stupid ideas with shooting down all ideas made by new players. If you have a good suggestion that adds to the game rather than detract from it then I am sure we all can have a nice discussion on how this can or cannot be put into the mod. If you' date=' however, make stupid suggestions that only detract form the experience, such as limiting PvP because you can't stand being shot at and having all of your loot lost, expect to be flamed. There is a difference.

Take time to actually read the suggestion to see why they receive so much hate.

[/quote']

No, they are all shot down. Read the recent posts pig brains.

(In the words of one of your friends that shoots down every idea. Even if the original poster is compeltely not hostile. So i guess its okay to call you a retard.

[i wub pugs 16]

the “hardcore” crowd' date=' tone it down a bit please[/quote']

I hate to be "that guy" but you've been on the forums for less than two hours.

Spend a month here. By the time you've read your 1,368th thread about how the game simply needs some arbitrary, artifical punishment for engaging in PvP or a way to "identify targets" or a "skill tree" or PvE servers or "private RP servers" or kill cameras or whatever other asinine shit gets trotted out here every day 50 times a day by people with less than 5 posts and probably 20 hours in game complaining about how it's too this or too that or too many people do x or y.

Do that, then come talk to me about toning it down. I'm fighting a war around here.

Yeah, that's really just about it.

---

There is another Whisky anology. You actually have to learn how you drink it and what you are drinking. After that it is either tasting for more and different ones or you go back to Cola.

In that analogy I regard DayZ as a new edition of a very fine single malt called Arma' date=' Arma has been maturing well, but there is now way in telling how DayZ will taste after maturing in a other casket for a bit longer.

Its not exact science, a 10 year old single malt can taste fantastic, a 12 old could well on its way to be mixed with cola, but until we get there you can't see if has to be mixed with cola or that it is better to drink it pure (with perhaps a few drops of water).

[/quote']

10 year old?

Fucking peasants.

[armadayz 0]

the “hardcore” crowd' date=' tone it down a bit please[/quote']

I hate to be "that guy" but you've been on the forums for less than two hours.

Spend a month here. By the time you've read your 1,368th thread about how the game simply needs some arbitrary, artifical punishment for engaging in PvP or a way to "identify targets" or a "skill tree" or PvE servers or "private RP servers" or kill cameras or whatever other asinine shit gets trotted out here every day 50 times a day by people with less than 5 posts and probably 20 hours in game complaining about how it's too this or too that or too many people do x or y.

Do that, then come talk to me about toning it down. I'm fighting a war around here.

This is complete bullshit, look at this fucking weasel trying to cover his tracks.

[Terrorfex 0]

It's not that the "hardcore crowd" hates all new ideas.

They just hate the ideas that want to transform this game in Left 4 Dead or Dead Island.