DayZ SA - Initial Thoughts - Will it ever live up to it's potential?

[Timma (DayZ) 16]

Hi All,

 

After playing the mod for several hundred hours I was super excited for the release of the stand alone, but after playing the SA for 15-20 hours I have to say I am not confident DayZ will ever be the game I have always hoped it would be.  *yes, I understand this in alpha, and anything and everything could radically change, so only time will tell if my thoughts are relevant or not. That being said, DayZ is based on a (supposedly) mature engine released in 2009, and has been in SA development for over a year, so I think it's fair to speculate on some of the basics we can interact with today*.

 

First, let me say there have been some notable improvements, including:

 

1. Inventory system vastly better.

2. Login and connectivity to servers vastly better.

3. Zombie AI and path finding is better.

4. New variety of gear spruces up the loot hunting aspect.

5. Modular weapons are cool, and add to #4.

6. New health status/survival mechanics have potential.

7. Significantly more buildings to explore.

 

However, I'm disappointing with the following:

 

1. Engine still chugs, particularly in cities.

2. Engine is still "clunky" - close quarter operation/maneuvering is horrible, and you certainly can't do anything quickly.

3. Melee is terribly implemented.

4. Upcoming Feature list from Rocket does't point to any game play "expanding" features, even if they are a ways off.

 

Obviously there are a lot of other issues, but I came into this accepting there would be problems.  The reason I listed the ones above is because I feel that if they are still present at this point they are not likely to significantly improve.   The reason I am worried about 1-3 in the above is that, at this point, they seem to just be part of the way the engine works, and if after 5 years of Arma II, and a year of DayZ SA development, it still feels like you are walking in quicksand with an elephant tied to your back when you are in a building, it doesn't seem like that is going to get any better.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, because this *is* based on Arma II, but I can't help but feel that those issues will always hold the game back.  

 

The biggest frustration I had with the mod was it was basically a leet weapon loot hunt with occasional PvP deathmatch.  I could forgive the mod for that because, well, hey, its a mod, only so much you can do, but for the SA I was hoping for a game that was much more focused on the survival aspects.  For me, a big part of that is creeping around and slowly acquiring the gear you need to survive and (hopefully) thrive in the game narrative. A big part of that, at least for me, is being able to be stealthy and use melee weapons, which necessitates a game engine that can provide tight close quarter controls, and implement an effective melee combat system.  Current SA is soooooooo far away from being there that I just don't see it happening.  

 

#4 is less of an issue as this is still early in the alpha, but I am concerned about this being over a year into SA development and still no word of any actual game play changing elements.  Everything introduced thus far, and everything listed in upcoming features, is basically just polish on existing elements that already existed in the mod. It has taken over a year to get where we are today, starting with a "mature" game engine and game design concepts that had already been tested in the mod.  Besides some engine enhancements, no game play improvements have been implemented or, beyond offhand commentary in interviews, even articulated.  Personally, I was hoping for a mix of State of Decay (for the base building/task/questing aspect of the game - you know, getting the basics of society back in place) with the combat and loot feel of The Last of Us (scrounging for even the most rudimentary of items, crafting, focus on melee, scarcity of firearms and ammo).  I realize my expectations for the game in no way shape the way BI is going to develop it, but it still feels soooo far way from anything that I was hoping for that I am worried that it will never get there.

 

As it stands right now, my gut feeling is this is just going to turn into a loot hunt for high end military weapons, after which folks will get bored and just start shooting each other - basically the same as the mod.  Hopefully I am wrong, but the engine just doesn't seem capable of delivering the experience that I am looking for.  Maybe I just came in with the wrong expectations, but the biggest thing I was hoping to see in the SA alpha was a refreshed engine that provided the framework to build a really awesome survival game on, and we just don't have that.    

 

I'll keep checking in as the updates roll out, but, if after a year of dedicated SA development they have still to implement any of the actual game play mechanics, let alone functionally improve the way the engine handles close quarter area's (or FPS issues, for that matter), it just seems like we are still several years away from having anything that is really different from the mod.   My fear is this is on a Duke Nukem Forever development cycle, where it takes so long the player base loses interest and the devs run out of steam.

 

What do you think?

 

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Yes. I think the game will eventually live up to it's potential. The movement doesn't feel that clunky and has improved a lot. Honestly, I actually like how this game makes you feel like you're in control of a real person with a physical body and not just some floating head with a gun doing 360 headshotnoscopes for 1337 winz.

Edited December 29, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[TimM1983 57]

I play internet games since 1998 and participated in around 20~ Beta / Alpha games and Day Z is one of the better starts / alphas and this game is bringing me fun 12 hours a day now in the work free holidays.

 

The only time I had that much fun with a beta was Wc3 ROC and Counterstrike.

 

Why we need a thread every hour when the developer team already noticed almost every bug ? Give it time, 365 days. Next christmas we have one of the best games ever made.

 

While I agree on the clunky gameplay I am happy they don't use another COD / QUAKE engine. I am really filled up with this shit, real life is clunky and you can't make everything perfect. Arma was never supposed to have the 1337-smooth gameplay experience which was standard at Quake 3 / Painkiller / UT99-2k3.

 

You can tell rocket and his team was never prepared for this success. The sales since release are huge and with that money they have the chance to make great things.

Edited December 29, 2013 by TimM1983

[gibonez 3633]

It wont had they released a year ago, and had the full might and support of Bohemia interactive then yea it would eventually live up to its potential.

 

Problem is more competent better funded teams are making dayz "clones" that already in its early stages are better than dayz ever was.

 

Rust in its super early stage already has so many of dayz future planned features, while nether already provides a much better experience than dayz in its early stages.

 

Competition wont stop with those 2 either only a matter of time before even bigger studios start to cash in and make this genre meet its full potential.

[Khad (DayZ) 293]

You can tell rocket and his team was never prepared for this success. The sales since release are huge and with that money they have the chance to make great things.

We can just hope, that they will -and wait for the improvement. 

[serenityrick 218]

I know you said that you realize it's "alpha" but I don't know what to say other than.... It's alpha.

 

One of your main gripes was lack of survivalist stuff.. that stuff is confirmed to be in the game. Hunting.. foraging.. cooking.. not implemented yet. When it is, I'm sure we'll see a reduction in food spawns so that people will have to start cooking and hunting. This will mostly take care of the loot hunt fear as in order to look for better gear, you'll have to take care of your survivor..

 

Rocket has already confirmed different diseases and sicknesses that players will have to be aware of. If you treat your survivor like dirt and eat nothing but canned spaghetti, your health will reduce and the effects of that food will have diminishing returns and you'll be more susceptible to different diseases. This means you have to be aware of what you eat, what you drink, where you go and what supplies you carry. 

I really don't think it will be a race to whomever gets to the NWAF because you'll be busy trying to keep yourself alive

 

At least I hope so. That's the impression I got from Dean from all his recent interviews.

 

In terms of the whole pvp/loot hunt stuff... the game will go a long way by removing military spawns in the south/near the coast.. or at least remove the possibility of weapons spawning there. The occasional camo jacket or helmet would be fine. But the military grade weapons and equipment should be a long term goal in the north/inland and be super rare.

As it is, you can go to a newly restarted server and deck yourself out in less than 10 minutes.

[drayson 158]

Yes. I think the game will eventually live up to it's potential. The movement doesn't feel that clunky and has improved a lot. Honestly, I actually like how this game makes you feel like you're in control of a real person with a physical body and not just some floating head with a gun doing 360 headshotnoscopes for 1337 winz.

Pretty much this. Makes you think about your movement a lot more and less like a twitch everywhere kind of gameplay that people like in other fps titles.

[kruger287 13]

The reason a lot of people seem to have a bad taste in their mouth about the way the alpha plays and such I believe is because the fact that alot of AAA companies have "BETAS" or "ALPHAS" i use those terms loosely and they are nothing more than a Demo of the game with the name PRE-RELEASE or ALPHA or BETA just slapped on so it gives most people and unrealistic view on what and alpha or beta should be

(just as tabloids give us unrealistic views of beauty) :|

Edited December 29, 2013 by Kruger287

[Twixxer 159]

Alpha.

 

 

I think with the millions they received by releasing standalone they'll be able to turn this into a truly amazing title.

[TheWeedMan 132]

The game is still top notch even in its present condition and Rust etc is just a ripoff and idea theft.

With a good graphics and effects overhaul along with nice ragdoll physics we would have ourselves a major advancement in DayZ.

Sounds need redone too but these are finishing touches.

[Valdee_uk 2]

There are too many clones, yes, but the community matters as well and Rocket being a vissionary, this project won't burn out, not to soon i hope :)
DayZ is an Alpha, but i played Rust, few other, there is no comparison in the depth, potential, modding and stability (despite being buggy).

The only thing that puts me off here are player killers that kill on sight, no safe zones for newbies. Maybe a tutorial server would be nice solution to start with.
I play games since i started building 286s, long time lol, i had many dissapointments in funding games in Alpha, many, i believe this one will become a pearl :)

[chompster 171]

it won't. 

 

it will always remain a open world Deathmatch with "survival" somewhere far far off in the background.

[Bakercompany86 347]

 

However, I'm disappointing with the following:

 

1. Engine still chugs, particularly in cities.

2. Engine is still "clunky" - close quarter operation/maneuvering is horrible, and you certainly can't do anything quickly.

3. Melee is terribly implemented.

4. Upcoming Feature list from Rocket does't point to any game play "expanding" features, even if they are a ways off.

 

 

 

1.  They are most definitely working on optimization.  I don't know why I'm different, or just not seeing it, but my performance is always excellent. Even in cities.  I'll get exact FPS numbers tonight if I stay awake enough to play.  But I really don't ever notice framerate issues.  I would definitely notice and bitch about it, because I'm a stickler for FPS performance.  You are not alone however, there are other players out there experiencing exactly this.

 

2.  The movement system needs tightening, in my opinion.  I noticed you couldn't crouch/sidestep through doorways, and it irritated me at first.  But then I realized "Hey asshole, could YOU fit through a door sideways wearing a mountain backpack?"  The answer is definitely no.  But what I'm referring to is the extra-unwanted movement.  When you are crouch-walking forward and you release the movement key, but your character continues to move a couple of feet forward.  Things like that I'd love to see tightened up, at least when you're at full health.  If you're suffering heavy blood loss, or dying of starvation, your movement would be a little sloppy for sure.  But not at full health and ready to rock and roll.  I hope they tighten up the controls a bit.  Although I think this is less of an issue with the engine (people are quick to blame the engine, I don't think that's actually the problem).

 

3.  Agreed.  Being that melee is such a huge part of this game, it definitely stands to reason that it needs to be super tight.  But i'm 100% positive they know this and will improve it as time goes on.  At least it's functional.

 

4.  Pretty sure I've heard Rocket talk about a lot of features to be implemented.  Gathering, hunting, cooking, even a touch of herbalism.  I've also heard his idea of true DayZ Endgame content, is building fortifications.  Specifically subterranean dwellings.  Also vehicles will definitely be implemented, most likely with the ability to lock portions of them.  Which is cool.  I have complete faith that he will continue to expand the world and add features as long as they're realistic and don't detract from the core experience that makes DayZ unique.

 

 

 

As far as my opinion of the game goes; I really enjoy it and enjoy the unique experience I get out of playing it.  The player interactions are truly unlike any other game I've played.  You really get a sense of human nature from playing.  I love the core experience of DayZ.  I can't wait until further refinements are made (like movement, melee, and Zombies).  Even in it's current state, it's very enjoyable.  Everyone has their own set of goals.  Mine happens to be to survive as long as possible, helping as many people along the way while trying to avoid death by bandit.

 

Each person will garner their own experience from playing DayZ, that is for sure. 

[combatcomm1 234]

With Bohemia at the helm.....it's questionable. Too many of there games have amazing potential that is never tapped. Cough, ARMA III, Cough

[Shifty McKey 0]

I expect that it'll always be kind of a buggy mess. But, if they get loot and zombie spawning working properly and drastically increase the number of zombies on the map, then I'm sure it'll be a fantastic game.

[Hetstaine 10852]

 For me it is already miles ahead when i compare it to the mod and i am glad they didn't drop it last year..it would have been a clusterfuck. It is still far to easy to gear up but i suppose they need that for the newcomers and people who can only do an hour here and there..not that i care as i would prefer shit to be a fuckton harder than it currently is. I was expecting it to be a lot harder and my anus was clenched so hard i had to have four muscled men push my bowels to release. It has now gone back to its former state of mild looseness. 

 

 Hoepefully they put in some serious work on combat logging and hopping as it is rife at the moment and rather laughable, as an ongoing project i see a bright future for it and i am in for what should be a good ride.

 

 

it won't. 

 

it will always remain a open world Deathmatch with "survival" somewhere far far off in the background.

 

 That is the community mindset and not the fault of the game. You could have a rock as the only weapon in game with a million things to do and people will still bludgeon each other to death.

[Merrick362 (DayZ) 263]

Most of the animations, including the melee are placeholder. They put them in to make it feel different, but they are far from permanent. For close quarters gunplay, try putting the CQB stock on an M4, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

The engine imploding inside cities is known, that's because they have not started optimization yet. It's not necessarily the graphical aspect, but rather the trouble is with tracking all those individual items inside your "network bubble". Down the road this will drastically improve, but they can't start optimization yet. Too many changes coming down the pipes.

As far as game play goes, it is what you make of it. Personally, I plan on making scavenger hunts with notes when they get fixed. Hide a bambi-bag somewhere, and leave a trail of breadcrumbs for anyone willing to follow.

I also like to support other players unexpectedly. If I catch someone being chased by an axe-wielding maniac, I'll drop the attacker with a mosin and leave the bewildered bambi to wonder what happened.

[combatcomm1 234]

Most of the animations, including the melee are placeholder. They put them in to make it feel different, but they are far from permanent. For close quarters gunplay, try putting the CQB stock on an M4, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

The engine imploding inside cities is known, that's because they have not started optimization yet. It's not necessarily the graphical aspect, but rather the trouble is with tracking all those individual items inside your "network bubble". Down the road this will drastically improve, but they can't start optimization yet. Too many changes coming down the pipes.

As far as game play goes, it is what you make of it. Personally, I plan on making scavenger hunts with notes when they get fixed. Hide a bambi-bag somewhere, and leave a trail of breadcrumbs for anyone willing to follow.

I also like to support other players unexpectedly. If I catch someone being chased by an axe-wielding maniac, I'll drop the attacker with a mosin and leave the bewildered bambi to wonder what happened.

 

 

Where did you see that most of the animations are placeholders?? I heard sounds were but nothing about animations. Please enlighten me because the zombies animation as they are right now are laughable and frustrate the shit out of me. 

 

And as for your scavenger hunt idea I love it! Once the notes are working correctly I was planning on doing the same. 

Edited December 29, 2013 by VictorM

[Merrick362 (DayZ) 263]

I'll try to find where i saw. It was in one of the streams that he was talking about placeholder animations and sounds.