Ideas for solving battle logging?

[crypticsilence 7]

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Posted this in the suggestions thread: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/159811-ideas-for-solving-the-battle-logging-issue/

Thanks all for the input and support!  :D

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Hey guys! After I get enough people to take a look through what we have come up with. I will put up a collective post describing the things we want to see for DayZ in the "Suggestions" thread. For now though, let's keep brain storming! :D

 

 

READ BEFORE POSTING!!!!!!!!

 

I see a bunch of threads about battle logging being made, but instead of complaining about it over and over again, I think I would bring up something that I have not read yet! We all know Rocket is taking a look into battle logging, as seen here: http://forums.dayzga...n-known-issues/

 

He basically says that they have their own fix for this, but it didn't work as planned and they need to refine it. So, I would first like to say let's chill with multiple threads for the same thing. You might then be thinking "Well why is this thread open then?", well let me tell ya'!

 

 

 

Concerns/ideas (Note: Below is subject to change, if you disagree, tell me why!):

 

• I would like when the esc button (Or if this is remappable, the "Menu" button) is pressed, that what ever "Gesture" you are currently in, be deactivated and you stand in your normal standing position. This would prevent (When battle logging has been resolved), is people putting their hands up like they are giving up, but waiting the 10 seconds with them up!
• When players are within a set distance (Say 100m?) delay before the player can log out should be INCREASED. Meaning being near someone takes longer to log out. This would help deter against a group of people all logging out in the same area, because if for some reason when they spawn in they get ambushed, they would have to fight it out. This would also help against people hiding in the jail and logging out in places like Balota Airfield.

          (^This could be exploitable, as the players could use it to check if someone is nearby)

• After blood loss or bleeding occurs, player has an INCREASED delay before logging out. This could help if you are chasing someone and you pop them in the back, they don't just hide in a bush and are gone in 10 seconds.
• Player loses money when battle logging or skipping 10-30 second log out timer (This will only work if currency is implemented)

 

 

The above are some ideas brainstormed, but I'm revising my opinion to a simple way to combat battle loggers (And no I don't mean those who use the terrible system EA created to keep track of Battlfield). Thank you all for the ideas! If I didn't put your idea up, I mean no offense! Below is what I will be posting in the "suggestion" forums (Link for this to follow shortly):

 

There is a constant time out of 30 seconds, with the option to "quit now". At which point a warning will come up, saying that your character will still remain in game for the full 30 seconds (Which obviously would be implemented if the pop was created). 

 

If the player loses connection to the server (Be it alt + f4, computer crash, internet outage, etc.) Their character will still be sitting in game for a the full log out time.

 

If the player is logging out normally, there is a cancel button to bring control back to their character, and there should be no indication to other players that they are combat logging, other than the fact they are standing still.

 

Finally, when in the process of logging out, ALL stances should be discontinued. Meaning if they were surrendering, saluting, giving you the bird, or sitting down, then the stance would be canceled. However, I do not know if sitting necessarily needs to be canceled, but definitely surrender/greeting should be canceled.

 

 

 

 

I hope some of these things have been thought about, and if it was brought up else where, I'm sorry for bringing it up again (Links are always appreciated)!

 

 

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Posted this in the suggestions thread: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/159811-ideas-for-solving-the-battle-logging-issue/

Thanks all for the input and support! :D

Edited December 29, 2013 by Breezy368

[twingunz 308]

Almost didn't read, then chose to read and gave you beans

Edited December 28, 2013 by twingunz

[AP_Norris 1018]

Huehuehue, battleloggers.

From the battlefield forums :)

Got banned for saying P***** people are nice, but untrustworthy.

Still banned :(

[crypticsilence 7]

Almost didn't read, then chose to read and gave you beans

 

Oh, I love beans! Yeah, I figured I'd put disclaimer, because forums has been spammed with battle logging complaints now. They just implemented a patch that fixed dead body despawns,  I think.

 

Huehuehue, battleloggers.

From the battlefield forums :)

Got banned for saying P***** people are nice, but untrustworthy.

Still banned :(

[Aussie Bogan 350]

Hey guys! 

 

 

READ BEFORE POSTING!!!!!!!!

 

 So, I would first like to say let's chill with multiple threads for the same thing. You might then be thinking "Well why is this thread open then?", well let me tell ya'!

 

 

 

My Concern:

 

 

Basically, what this would prevent (When battle logging has been resolved), is people putting their hands up like they are giving up, but waiting the 10 seconds with them up! I hope this has been thought about, and if it was brought up else where, I'm sorry for bringing it up again!

 

 

Multiple threads Meaning 100 plus cause terrible confusion...

 

As for you idea, I can't say I'm really fond of it.

 

If i want to log out...

 

Laying down in the field give me a 10-20sec (whatever the time) wait until i can log time sweet!

 

Or

 

Jump up in the field and say shoot me!!!

 

RESULT =

 

[crypticsilence 7]

Multiple threads Meaning 100 plus cause terrible confusion...

 

As for you idea, I can't say I'm really fond of it.

 

If i want to log out...

 

Laying down in the field give me a 10-20sec (whatever the time) wait until i can log time sweet!

 

Or

 

Jump up in the field and say shoot me!!!

 

RESULT =

 

 

I meant specifically that you cannot log out while in a stance (I.E. Greeting, sitting, surrender, or taunt), sorry for the confusion.

[csharp 47]

There is only one solution. When somebody combatlogs, he/she dies and hes/her body stays on the server.

[Aussie Bogan 350]

I meant specifically that you cannot log out while in a stance (I.E. Greeting, sitting, surrender, or taunt), sorry for the confusion.

 

Oh my bad.

 

Apologies misinterpreted what was said. :)

 

I believe  there needs to be a combat log timer to log out any where, at any time ;) <<<< so while doing a gesture 10- 20 sec wait etc etc

Edited December 28, 2013 by Aussie Bogan

[frosti 2165]

Many players have adapted logging out when engaging others in disaadventage as a part of their playstyle/game mechanic.

 

Any, ANY, threads and ideas about log out timers will couse massive butthurt and rage.

[crypticsilence 7]

Many players have adapted logging out when engaging others in disaadventage as a part of their playstyle/game mechanic.

 

Any, ANY, threads and ideas about log out timers will couse massive butthurt and rage.

 

So far, so good. Haven't needed the prep. H

[crypticsilence 7]

There is only one solution. When somebody combatlogs, he/she dies and hes/her body stays on the server.

 

Haha, while I wish this upon combat loggers, it's not really applicable to a game like this. It would be rediculous amount of coding, when a more simple way could be found. I personally think that dependent on maybe some queues in the game, like if your blood level dropped recently for any reason, it should have a longer disconnect time. Or maybe player presence makes it take longer, so if there is a player within 100m it takes like 15-20 seconds, when normally it would take maybe 5-10.

[frosti 2165]

 

. Or maybe player presence makes it take longer, so if there is a player within 100m it takes like 15-20 seconds, when normally it would take maybe 5-10.

 

Exploitable to check if there are players in vicinity.

 

Log out timer always when you wanna log out is the best and have been used in DayZero mod (and in mmorpgs for over dacade now) with great succes.

[crypticsilence 7]

Exploitable to check if there are players in vicinity.

 

Log out timer always when you wanna log out is the best and have been used in DayZero mod (and in mmorpgs for over dacade now) with great succes.

 

Agreed, yet there has still not been a successful attempt of eradicating battle logging (Which there never will be). I agree that this might be exploitable, I will make a note of that. I don't necessarily want to get rid of the idea all together. I had recently thought of blood loss as a way to add log out delay time. Say your character was bleeding 5 minutes ago, maybe that could extend your delay by 15-20 seconds.

[frosti 2165]

 

there has still not been a successful attempt of eradicating battle logging

 

That's the only Rocket foult. becouse he don't see combat loging as a big enought issue.

 

In DayZero mod they managed to add log out timer and spawning player dummy (that could be klilled and stayed in game for 2 minutes) if player dodged waiting 30 seconds for log out timer.

[crypticsilence 7]

That's the only Rocket foult. becouse he don't see combat loging as a big enought issue.

 

In DayZero mod they managed to add log out timer and spawning player dummy (that could be klilled and stayed in game for 2 minutes) if player dodged waiting 30 seconds for log out timer.

 

I still have faith in the dev team, I think they will fix it eventually. They just recently fixed dead bodies disappearing, kind of! :D

 

Also, I meant in any game. There is still battle logging, you hold a positional advantage, and log out. Even with 10 seconds you can either trick them to leave their position and get some kills or peace out before they can do anything.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Breezy368

[frosti 2165]

 

Also, I meant in any game. There is still battle logging, you hold a positional advantage, and log out. Even with 10 seconds you can either trick them to leave their position and get some kills or peace out before they can do anything.

 

30 seconds log out timer and spawned dummy solved 99% of battle logs in DayZero mod. I'm serious with this.

[crypticsilence 7]

30 seconds log out timer and spawned dummy solved 99% of battle logs in DayZero mod. I'm serious with this.

 

I'm sorry, could you elaborate on the spawned dummy? Are you talking when you log in there's a dummy? Or if you lose connection or something?

[frosti 2165]

I'm sorry, could you elaborate on the spawned dummy? Are you talking when you log in there's a dummy? Or if you lose connection or something?

 

If you disconected or decided to quit game without waiting 30 seconds for log out timer, you would leave in game your character dummy for 2 minutes, that could be killed.

[HIHBGaming 14]

If you hit escape to logout, 30 sec timer... Hit alt F4 or DC any other way, clone left in game and you die. Price to pay for combat logging. I don't think it needs to be any more complex than this really. Whatever is done it needs to hurt because it's a plague that needs a cure.

[crypticsilence 7]

If you hit escape to logout, 30 sec timer... Hit alt F4 or DC any other way, clone left in game and you die. Price to pay for combat logging. I don't think it needs to be any more complex than this really. Whatever is done it needs to hurt because it's a plague that needs a cure.

 

What if my comp s**ts out? Or the server drops and it glitches thinking I was the one that left? Maybe I lose internet or connection to the server? 

 

There should at least be a chance for these situations. It's hard to program a hard and fast rule, because you never know. If you were to get that severe, you would definitely have to have like steps before then, only because it would be awful to lose your gear, because you sister knocks over your router.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Breezy368

[aodqw97 78]

Okay I have an idea and its one that has far greater implications than just combatting battle logging and could probably support and thread of it's own.

It's virtual currency. Similar mechanicaly to tf2's metal if you like, that had great value if found and be useable to buy items from other players.

How does this help battle logging? Simple.. if a combination or mix of commands are executed within a defined time frame prior to exiting, the game reads it as combat log and you forfeit your cash on disconnection, all of it no matter how much you have.

It would make you think twice before doing it and consider your actions more carefully (I think) ..

No doubt there will be plenty of robust opposition to my idea but hey, the guy wanted ideas OK.

[HIHBGaming 14]

What if my comp shits out? Or the server drops and it glitches thinking I was the one that left? Maybe I lose internet or connection to the server? 

 

There should at least be a chance for these situations. It's hard to program a hard and fast rule, because you never know. If you were to get that severe, you would definitely have to have like steps before then, only because it would be awful to lose your gear, because you sister knocks over your router.

 

What's the alternative for Alt F4 combat logging or a variation thereof? Unless there's a way to detect how the client DCed. I'm no programmer so have no idea if that is even possible to detect. Seeing that DayZ does have a server/client architecture can it detect how a client DC's? This is a question that would nice to know the answer to.

Edited December 28, 2013 by R.Neville

[ninjacalypse 551]

I hate to say this has been addressed only about a gajillion times but it has.  Rocket actually addressed this before the Alpha was released and said combat logging would be addressed with logout timers and damage cooldown, i.e. there's a cooldown timer before logging after taking damage within a certain length of time, whether you logout, alf-f4 or dc.  So it's an issue Rocket is fully aware of and has a plan to deal with.

 

For those who think that the game should discern between alt-f4'ing and dc'ing...why should it?  If you dc in the middle of a fight, you should expect to die...in pretty much any online game.

 

Since the Alpha was just released many features have yet to be implemented though.  Although, of all the game Alphas I've played despite the issues it has this has got to be the most buttpain-free Alpha I've played in like...ever.

Edited December 28, 2013 by NeedsFoodBadly

[vile. 38]

30 seconds log out timer and spawned dummy solved 99% of battle logs in DayZero mod. I'm serious with this.

 

This.

CL was a non-issue in DayZero because your character would just stay on the server for 30 seconds if you Alt+F4.

It works and should be very easy for the devs to implement. 

Edited December 28, 2013 by vile.

[Atomizer 53]

Pretty similar to what I have been suggesting, so I am just going to add what I think.

 

Step 1

Essentially, the biggest thing required is to carefully consider how to determine if a player is "in combat", having players nearby should not be considered in combat, as friends wouldn't be able to log out near each other, and can be exploited as mentioned.

There is many ways of determining in combat status however:

 

- If you're currently bleeding (you must bandage or you're considered in combat)

- If there was someone "Attacking" within a certain radius of you (Melee/guns, pretty much any "hostile" action could count for this, that includes if you yourself did that action)

- If you were dealt damage (or dealt damage, whether to a player or a zombie, or by a player or a zombie)

- If a zombie is nearby (This is a big one, once zombie respawns are in, will basically count as being in combat unless you wipe out all the zombies nearby, usually would involve having to leave a town)

- If shots were hitting nearby within the radius (So if a player is outside the "hostile action" radius, yet shooting at you, it will count as being in combat)

 

That is about all I can think of right now, there might be other ways to determine if a player should be considered in combat or not, but for now that should hopefully give some ideas.

 

Step 2

The next step is to determine how to handle combat logging, which is usually the focus of peoples discussions, so there's already plenty of ideas out there.

 

The biggest issue is legit disconnections/crashes versus alt+f4ing/pulling your network cable out/etc.

And also the fact the for some people, there are times where they simply must leave, this is not an excuse for combat logging, and impossible to determine if just combat logging or leaving because they have to.

 

Because of that, I don't think there should be a required log out timer, if people really have to go, they should be able to, but suffer from the punishment for combat logging.

So I believe there should be a set timer of say, 30 seconds if someone is considered in combat, when you hit the menu key, you can see the timer, if they click log out it will be considered combat logging, if however they wait for the timer to reach 0, they can log out just fine and are not considered combat logging.

 

I can't imagine a better system for determining when someone determined as "in combat" from the first step, moves into the "combat logged" stage of the second step, remember though that "30 seconds" can be changed if needed.

 

Step 3

Now for step three, the punishment.

If you combat log, what is the punishment? At first I was going for a "your character dies" punishment, based on logging out while unconscious or handcuffed changes, this could still work, but the reason its needed for handcuffing is because the person who handcuffed them wont know if the player decided to log off if we try to go with some kind of "character remains logged in for X seconds/minutes", that is also why I didn't put handcuffing or unconsciousness in the list of ways to determine if in combat.

Where as if you're still alive, you can still be killed, you're still vulnerable.

So I think if "combat logged", the character should remain logged in for 2 minutes(again, amount can be adjusted).

 

Step 4

Now here comes the final step, the character is in "Combat logged" mode, stuck on the server, but what could happen?:

 

- Character gets handcuffed

      I know this is unlikely, but if someone handcuffs a combat logged character, when the timer expires, the character will get all the "log off" rules applied as if they just logged off, so the character dies, which leads to...

- Character gets knocked unconscious

     More likely to happen, same deal as handcuffed, character dies

- Player tries to join another server

     Should be locked out from joining any other server, this can help prevent ghosting and the like, but the real purpose is to prevent inconsistencies with the Hive, and loot duplication

- Player tries to join the same server

     I really only seeing this happen if someone lost connection briefly, or the game crashed, they log back in to whatever the character state the "dummy" was in.

     So if they were handcuffed, they would be handcuffed when they log back in, if unconscious, they will log back in unconscious, if they then log off again, their character will die as per the other log off rules.

 

 

That's my suggestions and thoughts on the topic anyway.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Atomizer