Why is the world of dayz so static ?

[Chauz 166]

Allot of talk for someone that didn't buy the game.

[BelMarduk 169]

*snip*

 

 

This here is only fun for me, dont expect me to be angry.
Im only here because i am interessted how the fanboys justify there entitlement.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If the above is not admission of being a troll, I don't know what could be said, that would be an admission... (its just a little bit farther back, page 9 where I quoted you from...)

 

EDIT:messed up 'quoting' fixed formatting via *snip*


 

Edited December 29, 2013 by BelMarduk

[pogosphere 27]

LordSnapCase i will answer your replies  soon (today or tomorrow) ,because you  showed me to be willing to have a discussion based on arguments.
(Yes there were some subversively constructed insults hidden in your sentences, here and there, like assumptions and exaggerations of my arguments .But im ok with that if you feel the need to do that.)

BelMarduk , sorry i cant answer your posts ,they have no arguments in them, only namecalling.But they are nevertheless fun to read.So better luck next time.

Edited December 29, 2013 by pogosphere

[pogosphere 27]

I hope you all had a good new year.
I finally managed to answer LordSnapCases replies on my arguments.
So my arguments are grey, LordSnapCases replies to them are teal and my replies to his replies are as white ,as my conscience.



1.

No i hate EA.
But i have visited the sim city 2013 forums a while ago to shit on them.
 
And now you're here doing the same to the Dayz forums, well done.

Am I only allowed to post in this forum if you like , what i have to say?
How can any discussion come to life if you suppress it by quoting sentences out of context and then connecting them to an new context just to create false assumptions.
I rather want to talk about arguments and ideas,not about what you read into my sentences.


2.

I haven't bought the game. I play it over my friends account.

And I would suggest that you don't buy it, obviously we'd miss your unique perspective on things but I'm sure we'd cope.

Im not interested in suggestions.Stop using "we" for boosting your standpoint.
 

3.

Again great feedback from all of you!

You really don't deserve it, what is the point of giving you feedback when you stubbornly refuse to listen to reason and blatantly refuse to debate any counter points that don't fit into your entitled view that "This game needs MOAAAR and if you have to reduce the map to 20% of it's current size then YOU SHOULD because I WANT IT and TO HELL with the thousands of players who have loved Bohemias' previous games and are willing to love this one when it is finished.

I have read and understood every post of every user in this topic.Im very good at understanding the motivation of others.And i also understand the underlying anger in your text.I understand your standpoint,but i don't share it.

 

4.

Old games are not nessesary bad games. There is a huge amount of old games, which are more fun to play than many of the new, so called, triple A titles.
The most important aspect of any game is, that you get sucked into the world and forget everything else around you for a few hours.

Yep, I agree, I quite like playing chess for instance, but after playing it I don't go onto the chess forums and complain "WHY no stealth ninja pawns? why no exploding bishops? and why can't I dig tunnels so that I can get underneath the enemy?.

Your chess analogie is irrelevant and its also wrong. Chess is a game with a fixed ruleset. This fixed ruleset is important,so that people can learn the moves of the game and become better in the subsequent game. If the rules would change every week or month,than nobody could "master" the game.
Dayz on the other side is a sandbox game.It can be,whatever is most fun for the game.And what is most fun ,is determined by the feedback of the players in this forum.


5.

To achieve that, the game should have as less as possible, so called, immersion-breaking moments.

These are moments like:

- running against an invisable wall because you reached the end of the level."

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've yet to hit an invisible wall at the edge of any Bohemia level, they generate procedural terrain which goes on infinitely, I thought you'd played arma games?

You are quoteing out of context. I have said in no sentence,that dayz has all of this "immersion-breaking moments" in the game.At this point i only give general examples for immersion-breaking moments,because i had been asked how a perfect game should be in my opinion.

 

6.

- solid objects like a railway or road stop to exist when you reach the end of the map.

So Chenaurus should be sat in a giant crater, and we REALLY want the dev team to spend their time enclosing all the edges of the MASSIVE map which is Chenaurus.

If we only look at dayz,than you are right.There is no solution for this problem.

 

7.

- beeing unable to jump or climb certain points of the maps which look climbable.

This is not and never will be Assassins creed thankfully, Even though I believe there is room in the world for a zombie parkour game, this isn't it, Maybe you should consider buying Dying light when it is released? I might be tempted into giving it a go but if it's anything like dead island their previous game, it'll be worth only one play through.

Yes, the combination of parkour and zombies in a game, could be fun, if done probably.
No,i don't want this game,to be like assasins creed.But it should at least have a basic moveset of:

-A useful and non clunky melee combat system, which means the ability to grab and shove zombies so that they fall,close quarter combat and some form of
strategic displacement of the limbs with sharp objects like an axe, to slow down the zombies(this can't be done proper without some form of ragdoll-engine).

-A basic acrobatic moveset like , conserving momentum while running to jump quicker over chesthigh objects,push zombies out of the way while smashing into them
 and slide under objects or grabbing/pulling up the edge of the roof.


Also team moves would be nice, like reaching higher points by climbing on the shoulders of an teammate.
The more you have in your backpack the less of these moves you should be able to perform in the game.This would add another layer of strategic decision making and itimesharing.

 
8.

- beeing unable to destroy even wooden objects

Plenty of people have given you reasons for this but you refuse to counter them with any argument other than "other games has this, why not Dayz?" Even though you should by now have realised that adding in thousands of moveable objects that the server has to track ON TOP of the thousands of zombies and in-game inventory objects, players and ballistics would slow any Internet game down to an unplayable crawl.


There are not thousands of zombies in dayz.
I don't want to have 1000 wooden boxes in the game.
I want to be able to smash each wooden door,windowframe/nailed up window and drive through each wooden fence.
The destruction can be scripted and activated if the hurtbox of the wooden object is triggered. The destroyed wooden object can be erased one minute after destruction when nobody is looking at it,if memory is needed.
Welcome to 2014.

 

9.

- recognizing that the enemy you are hitting has almost no hitimpact-animation what so ever.

It's an Alpha and If you had bothered to follow the developement process AT ALL like us so-called fan boys then you would know that the zombies(infected) have had very little dev' time and will be worked on a great deal further.

Again at this point i only describe general examples for immersion-breaking moments. But in this special case dayz has this kind of clunky movement at the moment
and arma 2 and 3 have also this kind of problem,so we will see in one year if the developer has fixed it,only the future will tell, but i am not so confident.And i have every right to when you look at the past.

 

10.

- beeing unable to bounce over light objects like chairs

I'm sorry, you want... bouncing? who are you? Tigger?

No I'm not a tiger,as you already know.
Your comment is irrelevant.Are you planning on quoting every single sentence of my post out of context.Who are you?An Politician?
 

11.

- textfade-ins and teleports replaceing player animations

Alpha, please learn what this word means, Dean Hall has already mentioned (research again) that he thought it would be a good idea at the time and as a place holder it works but he's looking at changing it and has already given us indicators in the inventory.

So they have worked 12 month on this project as you said, used the already existing engine of arma 2 and the already existing map of arma 2 and where not able to make
Proper animations in this timeframe even if they have done motioncapturing as the said in there blog.

What have they done all the 12 month? Added item management system,prerenderd shadows,volumetric clouds and modeled one empty indoor area just to copypaste it to all the small houses which have all identical maplayout ?How many people work on the project ? If i give only one good student infrastructure and let him work for an year,he achieves more than that!


12.

Take this scenarios as an example:


Scenario 1:

I am in dayz, have no ammo at all, or have wastet my last shoot and a, with an firearm armed, bandit is chaseing me into a building.
I am running up into the first floor and he follows me with a distance of only 10 meters.

-How fun would it be if i could smash the wooden window-frame in the room of the first floor with an axe , climb out of the window dangle on the roof of
the window and from there jump down onto the ground,while he is running into the room sees the smashed window, looks down, sees me running into the forest
near the house, takes a last shot and barely misses.

You may not be able to smash open the window but with the new jumping It IS possible to exit certain windows by jumping through them, IF you had bothered to follow developement you would have seen Hicks do exactly this in a previous stream.

I want to see the wood and glass of the windowframe burst around me if i jump through the window(after that they can disappear,i don't care)
Or be able to open the windowframe before i jump through the window (that would be the easier solution).

But,replacing movement with teleporting the player around or fading in text, is not acceptable for a 60 $ game (releaseprice,wanna bet ?)


13.

Scenario 2:

Imagine there would exist an actual indoor ligthing system, like it is standart for all other games since many years ago.
And you want to loot a bigger house which is totally barricaded, with nailed up windows, so that only a small amount of light can shine into
the house. The Inside of the house is not completly dark but dark enough that some bandit, or a bandit group, could hide in the shadows of the
cant over furnitures or in lockers, with their shotguns pressed against the walls of the locker, just waiting so that you can come close enough to pum you full with
shotgun shells.

Again do your research, the lighting is being worked on so that hopefully flashlight beams will not penetrate walls, but this is EARLY ALPHA.

The indoor lighting looks terrible to a point that it is almost non existent.Would it be that hard to prerender some proper shadows in the indoor areas.
Games five years ago had already way better looking indoor areas than arma 2 or 3 have today.Look at modern warfare 2 for example.

Your indoor areas have almost no items and furniture in it and the few objects which are actually in the houses cast almost no shadows at all, not even a prerenderd.
For the fact that you are spending a lot of time by looting indoor areas, the indoor areas should at least look somehow decent and not as boring and generic as they do.


Look for example at outlast, an indie game,which was released in the last year.The developer had way less money and way less man power to spend on there project and
did a way better job in implementing indoor areas.

 

14.


-How fun would it be if you could actuall hide in furnitures like lockers or crawl through (selfmade) holes in the floor under the wooden planks of the floor.
 So that you can slowly crawl  under the enemy and shoot him from under the floor while he is standig on the floor.

-How fun would it be to flood the whole ground with gasoline, out of petrol cans, waiteing untill the enemy group walks in and then ligthing the ground on fire,
 while they are standing in the middle of the gasoline-flooded room.
 

A great deal of fun I'm sure, but these scenarios are just day dreams,like my chess example earlier, but they are YOUR daydreams and are not necessarily shared by the dev team who are making the game THEY want to play rather than what YOU want to play.


The sense of a forum is to collect feedback of users.
If they only want positive feedback,than there is no necessity for a forum at all.
A forum is a great way of expand the creative process of gathering gameplayideas onto the players.
Its a win win situation, but only if critical thinking is allowed.
If the only make the game what they want to play,then we will become hiking simulator 2014 and im not ok with that and you shouldn't be nether.


15.
 

But for that kind of cat and mouse games you would need an actual dynamical lighing engine and some kind of particle engine, which simulates the dispersion of the fire.
And an fluid engine so that the enemys have the chance to spot the wet floor .And you would need actual furniture and items in the house, instead of almost compleetly
empty rooms, which are not designed to have interessting gameplay in them, because its much more importand to render that region where you where hiking, and took all the
pictures with your camera, geographically corect , instead of building some fictional buildings which have big enough rooms with enough furniture and items in it to
generate  interresting indoor gameplay.

Again research, or even just read the previous posts in the thread YOU made.
Game developement (or any design procedure) is never successful when they just say "throw everything in"

I don't ask them to throw everything in at once.But after they released the mod in june 2012,they should have some general concept of gameplaycontent,which goes beyond handcuffing and forcefeeding people,wearing clownmasks and showing other player the midlefinger, by now. I absolutely can't see there greater picture.It is not that they have created a new engine or a new map at the last 12 month.They took even a step backward,as the have throwen an already in arma 3 developed,new engine with features like dynamic lighting away and are now using there 4 years old arma 2 engine again.

There is absolute no consistency in what they are doing.They always go the way of the lowest resistance.
Was it to much work to implement the arma 2 map with the arma 3 engine ? Why this unnessesary step backwards from arma 3 engine to arma 2 engine ?


16.

Being a designer myself I'm fully aware that design is a decision making process, you either generate lots of ideas and throw out the worst (or the unacheivable given the constraints), or you generate those ideas and select the best (again, within the constraints).

The fact that you are a designer yourself does not make dayz any better.Neither does it make arma 2 or arma 3 have a stable netcode or framerate.

17.

As has already been explained to you, the constraints that the devs are under include: The clients hardware, the security issues ( hence them spending months on coding the usual arma scripting functions into C+, developing the Network bubble and making an increasing number of functions server rather than client side, you know developing the foundation),The size (which we all love) of the map, the amount of players, interactive objects, zombies etc.

Yes its a long way from the ideas to the finished infrastructure and therefore the ideas have to be good in the first place,or else the whole work was done for nothing.
But it seems that the developers have no ideas at all,with what content they will fill those ridiculous large 225km² map.All i see at the map is one small 12m² big house after the other,all with almost identical layout, town after town.
And some additional sniperhotspots. Not one single house or maparea feels unique and is carefully designed in regards of gunplay.They just render it in the game as they see it on there
realtime pictures.There is absolute no understanding that at least indoor areas have to be designed with a certain relation between open space and cover,vertically and structural variety.

where is :

-the giant mazelike prison with no electricity and therefore no light in it
-The big city with a commercial area and a big shoppingmall
-Industrial buildings like factory's and oilraffineries
-a mine
-scrapyards
-rivers and caves
-cornfields or some hint of agriculture

Every town or area should have its special place.And those places should,first and for all be fun to play.
And if they look realistic than its even better.But gameplay should come first.


18.

Maybe it hasn't occured to them to throw all of the work that has so far gone into the dev of the game so that YOU get to push a chair over or hide under the floor because it was fun in that movie you had going on in your head.

And you know what? If you were truly invested in these ideas you could always post them in the suggestions part of the forum.


I see many people post gameplay ideas in the General Discussion part of the forum.
I also post gameplayideas in the General Discussion part, because its the General Discussion part.
If i want to complement the topic i have created with some content,if i think its necessary,than i just do it.

 

19.

Games like far cry 3 for example have a great fire engine:

Meh, "ooh pretty fire" didn't make me want to play farcry more than once, so £30 for 30 -40 hrs play max, doesn't come close to the thousands of hours spent playing Arma2 or the Hundreds of hours playing the FREE dayz mod.

The flamethrower and fire-engine of farcry 3 was a lot of fun, even if farcry 3 as a whole game was not that good.
The amount of hours you have played arma 2 has nothing to do with implementing a fire-engine,molotov cocktails and gasolinecans.


20.

Look, for example, at the indoor areas of this division trailer at 1:19 min . I cant get enough of how much love they put in every detail of the indoor areas.

YAY division! INSPIRED BY DAYZ they've thrown millions of dollars into developing a trailer which gives us no idea about the size of the game, the scope, the originality, how many players a server can handle and how many servers it will take to run the map, all we've seen so far are pretty dreams and promises but for all we know it could take another 5 years to make,have rubbish gameplay and require you having an uber pc to run it even close to as pretty as it looks, let's face it at the moment that game is nothing more than a twinkle in the devlopers eye. And when it comes out and irt doesn't meet your every exacting requirement, never mind, you can just not buy it and in to paraphrase you , you can enjoy "visiting their forums to shit on them".


There is actual an existing gamplay demonstration for the division.But no,they have no alpha,where people can participate and test the game,but dayz standalone has also no real alpha!You can't call walking around an empty map without seeing zombies 99% of the time and without any gameplayelements,beside of torturing other players,an alpha .

But it makes no sense to promote the division.All i say is that Bohemia Interactive have not made significantly less money than the developer of the division in the last few years.
So the players can expect at least the same quality. Or else they should release the game for 20-30 $.



21.

Welcome to MythBusters:

The "Bohemia Interactive has no financial possibility" myth

Stop acting like Bohemia Interactive is a small developmentstudio, which is just in the moment developing its basic programming tools and infrastructure.
Bohemia Interactive (BI) is around until Operation Flash Point. They where foundet 1999:

http://en.wikipedia....mia_Interactive

Every small developmentstudio would be exuberantly happy if they had only a small part of the financial possibilitys  BI has and had for over 10 years.
They made so much money with there products, just look at the steam sales of dayz standalone "alpha". If they have no money at the moment , than just because of
bad managment and spending money for things which are unnessesary for the gamedevelopment.

Maybe you should write to them with your C.V. If you succeed in taking over in a management capacity you can start to dismantle a much respected and unique developer and start to knock out the "Battlefieldstylegamewithzombies" that you so dearly wish Dayz to be. Or maybe you could go work for mythbusters, I'm sure they'd be really impressed with advance research abilities and scientific reasoning.

The quality of the products they release,speaks for its self.I can understand that some fans here look at there products only with their fanboy-glasses on,but if you lock in
a call of duty forum,than you also find people who tell you that call of duty ghost is a very innovative product.Thats just how people act,when they get emotional attached
to a product and associate their own self-esteem with it.And then they mistake an attack on the quality of the game as an attack on them.


22.

The "Dayz is only in development for 5 month" myth

Dayz is arma2 multiplayer, only renamed and rebranded. If you look at it there is now way that you can say that this game is an indipendent game.

So by 'looking at it' you can see the code behind it can you? It's already evident that the way the dayz engine handles thing is significantly different to how arma2 or the mod handled things, because it's an alpha and not fully optimized yet we get to 'see' the differences. For example, when you move things around or combine things in the inventory there is slight delay and the pop up text will say 'receiving'. this shows that the client is having to contact the server to see if the action is viable. This may seems like a small thing but it has Huge implications, it means that the server has ultimate control over inventory items which gives the game a huge defence against hacking and a way of controlling all inventory items in the game.This game is NOT arma2, it just looks a bit like it.

They will not show me the source code ,even if i ask.That means i have to judge by what i am seeing while playing the game.

And what i see is:

- almost same map as in arma 2
- almost same engine as in arma 2
- almost no zombies on the map and the existing ones are terrible implemented even for alpha standards
- no actual gameplaysystem implemented after 12 month of development(i think its more than 3 years but we have a ongoing discussion in regard of this aspect),
  beside of an inventory management system and looting

 
23.
 
 -Its almost (to an degree over 90%) the same map than in arma 2

If it aint broke don't fix it.

Yes,but if it aint new content,than don't call it standalone and don't sell it for 60 $ at releasedate.


24.

-Its the same engine (beside of some shadow improvements which are not even as good as in arma 3, and volumetric clouds)

Brilliant engine for large scale military warfare retooled for large scale zombie apocalypse,and your problem is?

Are the pop ups of objects in middle distance part of your brilliant engine,to?And the clipping errors of moving objects and the frameratedrops,which appear no matter what "NASA-supercomputer" you have?


25.

-Its even so that it has less weapons and items than arma 2 multiplayer.

As you have ignored the rational feedback of several posters I'ma gonna ignore your request to not use the alpha thing, IT'S ALPHER!

Its also an ongoing discussion if your feedback is actual rational.But it at least does not exist 100% out of insults.But the amount of false quoting in your feedback is pretty high.


26.

Its not only arma 2 mp renamed , its less than that . It has not anymore all the weapons and items and fanmade contet which arma 2 mp and the day z mod had a year ago.
And arma 2 was released 29th of may 2009 , even the dlc "operation arrowhead" was released 27th of june 2010.

They're building a solid FOUNDATION, If they wanted I'm sure they could instantly bring in a shedload of content from previous games, BUT they are going through a DESIGN process and will pick and choose carefully which items they wish to have in their game. Mods are a separate issue as they could run into legal issues if they threw other people work into the game without permission, and really, do you think that every mod that Arma eventually had,(thousands of 'em) was released the same day that the game came out?


A solid FOUNDATION ?


Dayz should be on this list:

http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2008/08/26/incredible-strange-amazing-sinkholes/


Recycling the arma 2 engine and map can't be a solid FOUNDATION,because arma 2 has,in terms of netcode,framerate and modern featureset(physics,lighting,animations,NPC AI) no solid FOUNDATION on its own.I thought arma 3 was released for building a solid FOUNDATION so,why go back to the engine of arma 2,then?


27.

So if dayz "standalone" has almost the same map as arma 2 + indoor areas + itemsystem + better static shadows and volumetric clouds, than tell me why should i not be allowed to
say that dayz is in development and therefore in alpa for almost 3 years ?

You ARE allowed to say it, but you're wrong. The map has had loads of work done to it, a radical redesign of the north, new areas, new buildings, most buildings now enterable etc.And the Dayz Standalone has been in developement for about 12 months.

Buildings look generic,have almost no objects in them and are terrible designed from a game/gunplay standpoint.


28.


Actually its more than 3 years now because the game is only a rebrandet arma 2 with even less contetn and over 90 % of the residual contet absoulut identical !!

The F1 McLaren has been in development for hundreds of years because erm.. stagecoaches had wheels.

Just because they have added indoor areas + itemsystem + better static shadows and volumetric clouds its not a indipendet game.

You cant be serious with that.
Network bubble, server/client architecture, new skeleton, new zombie pathing system (unfinished 'cause... ALPHA), New map areas, wrecked ship, apartment complex,


Network bubble,server/client architecture............... very funny. I have been waiting since Operation Flashpoint for stable netcode.Are you saying dayz has stable netcode at the moment ?
new zombie pathing system................................is it part of the new pathing system that zombies get stuck in the floor of the buildings and attack you from below the floor(i thought you did not like my idea of attacking from under the floor?)At the moment, zombies are no danger at all because the AI in this game is as bad as in arma 2.Remember the pathfinding of arma 2 singleplayer campaign NPCs ?
 

New map,wrecked ship,apartment complex...................They don't have any value, because they are not designed for havening actual gunplay in them.


29.

 

new animations



new inventory system



oh and...........



volumetric clouds.



30.

movements,.............,large amount if npcs at the same time (zombies or other).

Arma2 has vehicles, 225km2 terrain,

Yes but arma 2 has although:

terrible netcode
terribel framerate
terrible AI(..pathfinding..)
pop ups of objects in middle distance
no proper shadows of indoor objects
no decent physic engine
terrible animations + clipping
still broken features,4 years after release and modsupport of players

And dayz standalone has also all of this problems but at least it has an inventorysystem more static shadows in outdoorareas and volumetric clouds.
I heard the call of duty guys are very proud of there "fish-AI". Your fish-AI is the inventory system, isn't it ?


31.

structure destruction

This is structure destruction in arma 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWWiaIb73QY#t=0

Blending in a smoke shader while replacing the old poly model of the building by loading a new one while been hidden under the shader , like arma 3 does it with the "destruction" of buildings,
is not a very professional attempted of simulating a destruction on a building.


Its like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk7tom7pKj0#t=0


32.

player movement


This was 24.02.2013:

and this is now:

33.

large amount of npc's

Sorry i have not seen a large amount of npcs so far.
Im only interested in what they have done in the past and what they do now.
You can't trust a developer with what he wants to do in the distant future.
But we will see,future will tell.


34.

The icing on the cake that YOU want may be possible but there's no point in implementing it when nobody has the pc or the network infrastructure to actually run it.

Icing on the cake, pffffff.A stable framerate , stable netcode and a glitchfree environment is not iceing on the cake.


35.

But is it more important to have a 225 km^2 mapsize or a proper indoor lighting engine or some proper indoor areas at all, which are not total empty, look mostly the same, have all almost the same size and form and have absolutely no gameplay value beside of looting a 12 m^2 room after the other , at all.

Yes the large map size IS important to the thousands of player who bought the game before even the DEVS wanted it to be released. We all like it so much that the Devs released it way earlier than they would have liked because thousands of player were BEGGING them to. And not many of them were worried about the pretty pretties that you seem to need.

Why can you possible think that it is a good idea to create a 225km^2 big map, with almost no interesting indoorareas at all , and put towns with almost only small 12 m^2 big rooms, town for town,  on the map?What would change if the area would not be 225 km^2 large but instead of this a quarter of this. Nothing with only 100 players on the map.

"only 100 players on the map " (insert facepalm meme here).  As has already been explained to you, the game and map have been an innovation based on an outstanding engine capable of rendering huge view distances and enabling air to air combat, why would they cripple this, especially just to add moveable chairs? Why would they throw it this huge environment capable of being run on a single server with no loading screens for the cosmetic rubbish that you so dearly want? If they did they would be destroying the game that thousands of people have shown their support for by BUYING the game, (unlike you who hasn't supported this at all).

Sorry i have already used the facepalm meme somewhere else.


36.

-You say no game has all of that properties you enumerate. You are right
- I say no game , beside of a few games like Alien:Colonel Marines , Duke Nukem Forever maybe Gothic 3, has done not one of the points you have mentioned
(Im not talking about all , im talking about only 1) in an somehow acceptable form.

Hard to decipher this last part, so I'm guessing that English isn't your first language, in which case kudos for knowing more than one language. But to address What I believe to be your point: No there isn't a single game out there which has everything YOU want, nor will there be a single girl, job, house, car, holiday that fits that criteria If what you want is EVERYTHING.

No you are wrong, that is not what i meant.


37.

Arma 2 <=> Dayz has :
-no ragdoll

In development said to be coming.

We will see if when and in what form it is comming.But if there is one thing BI is not known for than it is implementing content bugfree.


38.

-no dynamic lighting engine

It has a lighting engine, what more do we need?

A good one.


39.

-no indoor lighting engien at all

I went into building and lit it up with my torch, That'll do for me.

Yes because you are easy to please.


40.

-no physic engine
-more than 50 % of the boadymovements is done by text fade ins and/or animations with clipping errors

If it had NO physics engine then NOTHING would move. At all. Body movements done by text fade in????

I correct myself at this statement.What i meant was a modern physic engine.


41.

- no NPC s at all (comon you cant call this Zombi KI , NPC

NPC = Non player character therefore zombies = NPC, but most people DON'T want little indestructible quest givers standing on the street corners, and If you want to play co-op multiplayer against teams of A.I there's a cool game called Arma just over there.

No,i don't want to have indestructible questgivers standing at street corners. I want an NPC-AI which is worth to be called AI and makes the zombies move and react in an somewhat believable way.Or at least not get stuck on every corner.At the moment zombies in this game are just graphical anomaly's, in the best case.


42.

- pop up problems in the environment in middle distance (grass on  the ground fades out for example)

You used Farcry as an example earlier, In that game (a little in 3 but LOTS in 2) You could wipe out a whole enemy squad, drive 100 m down the road, do a u turn and when you got back there the WHOLE SQUAD would have respawned! I GTA games the player runs around in large environments but ALL npc's, vehicles and destroyed objects are spawned in a bubble a round the player that is reset as soon as he leaves the immediate area, you would prefer this?
The pop ups are purely there to tailor to the fact that not everybody has an identical uber pc, you have to have variables in games that allow the player to tinker and achieve reasonable frame rates, welcome to Pc gaming where you have options.

Graphic pop ups are not the same as respawning enemys.The first one is a graphic bug/engine limitation and the second one is a gameplay decision of the developer how to keep the enemy density on a certain level.Please stay clean in your argumentation and stop mixing things up.


43.

-no realistic firearm behavior, even how with this netcode (how is it realistic that one player can take 2 mags full of bullets and still is alive?

You have have got to be kidding right? It's ALPHA, they're still working on net code as you would know with ...Research, there're bound to be occasions when something doesn't go to plan but after playing Arma for years now I'd have to say that they achieve a lot with their net code despite people running the game sometimes with tens if not hundreds of unofficial mods, and the only time I'v ever seen this happen with my own eyes was in the mod and it was later shown to be a hacker.

I thought they have worked on stable netcode in the last "12 month". Or to say it in your own words:

"Network bubble, server/client architecture"


44.

It has none of them , not one single of them!
And its not in alpha its released since 2010 (see the : Dayz is only in development for 5 month" myth)

No not 5 months not 3 years, around 12 months since they decided to rewrite the architecture of the game, you can refer to your wrong minded post as much as you like but it will still be wrong.

I am not impressed of the visible sucsess.Dayz standalone has still all the bugs and problems which arma 2 has.
But perhaps its all hidden in the code and we just can't see it in actual gameplay.

 
45.

Im not angry in the moment

Why should you be? You didn't pay for the game, you haven't been following the developement since the mod first came out, you have next to zero time invested in this game, you just gave it a cursory go on a friends account, then hopped on to these forums, to complain.
 
I have bought operation flashpoint, arma 2 and arma 3. I have been following the development since it came out.All i see is false promises of the developers.But as i said,time will tell and the wager is not in your favor.


46.

I have never said that i want all the things you said in the game, but i want a game which is on a technological level  somehow in an area of the last 5 years.

Then go and buy a game that has all that you want in it, personally I don't believe that your high requirements have been met yet by any game company and this is why you're hanging your hopes on games like Division which because they haven't been built yet have met no technical requirements for a game other than making a trailer look 'cool' (If you like that sort of thing).

If i pay after release for a game 60 dollar than i want this game to have somewhat the same amount of features and engine-technologie than the other games which coast also 60 dollar.
Or else the game is just not worthy 60 dollars.


47.

Well then, how about you follow Dean Halls' advice and wait until the game reaches that price point, read the reviews, watch some gameplay footage, and then and ONLY then, decide whether you think it is worth your no doubt hard-earned cash.

I dont think,it will ever reach that point of quality, neither did arma 2 and 3 and still they sold them for 50-60 $.

 
48.

Minecraft was a great game, but would you have bought minecraft for 60 dollar ?
You buy BI s or Activisions  games and they are not even somewhere near of the 60 dollar quality mark.

So you like minecraft, but you were capable of looking past its use of blocks to make everything? Is this why you want everything to be destructible so you can play dayz in minecraft mode? And who's asking you to pay 60 bucks for this game?, You can buy it for 30 right now and let it sit in your steam folder for 2 years if you want, or not, it's your choice to make, but you seem to have such unrealistic expectations of modern games that I would suggest that you don't.

No i don't want every game to be like minecraft.
Yes, minecraft has its limitations.
But a sandbox game should be more than looting hundreds of identical looking small rooms after items.
We will see if BI can fill the world with content and life , but i doubt it, because they are only good at creating huge and realistic looking landscapes.
They should rename dayz as hiking simulator and patch out the zombies.


49.

And than other companys like maxis with there sim city 2013 crap see that they can do the same, because you are a omnivore.
And thats bad for the rest of us gamer which still have a willpower.

Don't get your reference but I can tell you you now that plenty of us have plenty of willpower, rather than whining on about perceived problems, we post potential solutions, we reasonably discuss issues and some of us can see behind the trolling facade of individuals that post "WE WANT MOOAR" and realise that willpower, patience and a reasonable intellect are the last things on their mind, they just want MOOAR and they want it NOOOW.

Yes but there is a different between whining and giving feedback.
Whiners have no concept how to make the game better,nether has BI.but people like myself have.

Its funny how every feedback which you don't agree with is getting misinterpreted from you as whining.
And every forum member which posts critical feedback is getting misinterpreted by you as troll.

Calling someone a Whiner or troll is used in a very exhausting way in forums these days,just to silence some opinion you don't like, isn't it?

 
50.

This here is only fun for me, dont expect me to be angry.

As before why should you be Mr. zero investment. I think you'll find that no-one else here is angry either, but we do have the right to reply and it's genuinely amusing to see so much entitlement and fail in a thread, so thanks for that :)

Operation Flashpoint + arma 2 + arma 3 is not Mr.zero investment.


51.
 
Im only here because i am interessted how the fanboys justify there entitlement.

So you are justified in calling somebody a fanboy because they disagree with your ill researched and erroneous conclusions, Therefore I'm entitled to call you a Hater because you disagree with the people who are OK with the game, but really how does this advance the discussion?

"You're a fanboy"
"You're a Hater"
"You're a fanboy"
"You're a Hater"
"You're a fanboy"
"You're a Hater"

No not because they disagree with me.
I call people fanboys,if they are fanboys.
If you want to call me a Hater, i am fine with that.


52.

Seriously, stop being so impatient, If you wait, the game will get better, you will get more mature, you may have time to do some research into game developement in general and learn to control yourself rather than spouting Fail on forums of games you don't like.

Hell, If you wait long enough, computer tech' may get to the stage where we can all have full-body truly immersive games with infinite landscape fantastic physics and all the good stuff.

My first console played pong and breakout and if you wanted to play in colour you had to stick a strip of coloured vinyl onto the CRT TV screen that you played on. And it was good.

The first time I saw Space invaders was on holiday in France, before it got to the UK as far as I know. In arcades at that time a flight simulator was silhouettes of planes on wires with a backlight, so to ME I find modern gaming miraculous and don't feel 'entitled" at all.You on the other hand seem to be emitting waves of entitlement with every sentence you write.

Im not Impatient. I have supported the arma franchise for almost 10 years now,Other companies have evolved over the years,they not.They are the opposite of what i would call a learning organization.
They are the human equivalent of an living fossile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_fossil

Edited January 5, 2014 by pogosphere

[Chauz 166]

I still think with all these superduper devs on these forums you would think by now they would have made their own game, oh wait 90% of them just say they are devs..

[Sickerthansars 53]

I guess OP missed where the mod was a proof of concept/testing ideas for what they would put into the stand alone. Mod development etc =/= work on the standalone other than you know proving the whole zombie survial anti-game genre could be successful. And you clearly didnt read the huge all caps warning before you spent any money. So essentially you're another chucklehead who has no idea what hes talking about ranting aimlessly. 

Edited January 4, 2014 by Sickerthansars

[pogosphere 27]

I guess OP missed where the mod was a proof of concept/testing ideas for what they would put into the stand alone. Mod development etc =/= work on the standalone other than you know proving the whole zombie survial anti-game genre could be successful. And you clearly didnt read the huge all caps warning before you spent any money. So essentially you're another chucklehead who has no idea what hes talking about ranting aimlessly. 

I only quoted his Caps.But beside of this small flaw,pretty good feedback from you.

Welcome to my topic.

[pogosphere 27]

Sorry but if you dont have any valid counterarguments to my standpoint,than i have to claim myself as the winner of this discussion.

You have 24 hours to give me some valid arguments which i can not disable as i dit it with the replies of LordSnapCase or else i won.
 

I know the rules suck,but i have not made them.

Edited January 4, 2014 by pogosphere

[zecele 211]

I stopped at when you started asking why the development process is so nontransparent.

 

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but just to be safe, I'll give you an actual response and keep it short.

 

You're asking why they don't have the best of every game you listed, all packed into one, when they had no intention of doing that in the first place. Did you play the mod or look into it? Did you see that and say, "Wow I bet the Standalone will be that and then some!" Half-Life is famous for physics. Crysis is famous for graphics. Mirror's Edge is known for the parkour aspect it revolves around. The list goes on.

 

 

DayZ is known for survival, the PvP interactions, and the sheer size of the map. Those games don't have that, why aren't you disappointed in them for lacking such simple things a mere mod had? This just seems like a personal problem, really.

 

You sir have my utmost respect.

[pogosphere 27]

You sir have my utmost respect.

Your respect is not an valid argument,sorry but i cant let that count.

[Mookzen 67]

The real problem is that the devs are obviously still stuck in the 'we're making a mod' mentality. Hopefully WarZ taught them that the half-assed cashgrab shit won't fly anymore.

 

Rocket just can't and/or won't and/or isn't allowed to work on anything but the ARMA 2 engine. Polishing a fossilized turd takes time we must have faith and believe it is possible ! However, considering this particular turd is turning into gold it is fair to think that the devs shall be polishing it with great zest and zeal !

 

P.S. the 'big map' argument people are using is half-bullshit. The map is filled with the same exact few trees, the same exact few houses, the same exact few textures, the same exact few NPCs etc. Daggerfall did that in 1996 and the map was even bigger lolololol. 

Edited January 5, 2014 by Mookzen

[pogosphere 27]

The real problem is that the devs are obviously still stuck in the 'we're making a mod' mentality. Hopefully WarZ taught them that the half-assed cashgrab shit won't fly anymore.

 

Rocket just can't and/or won't and/or isn't allowed to work on anything but the ARMA 2 engine. Polishing a fossilized turd takes time we must have faith and believe it is possible ! However, considering this particular turd is turning into gold it is fair to think that the devs shall be polishing it with great zest and zeal !

 

P.S. the 'big map' argument people are using is half-bullshit. The map is filled with the same exact few trees, the same exact few houses, the same exact few textures, the same exact few NPCs etc. Daggerfall did that in 1996 and the map was even bigger lolololol. 

Yes you are absolute right on this point and this "we still make a mod" (but sell it as fullpricegame and pretend it has a fullprice featureset),mentality is a big problem even for themselves.

Because if EA or other big publishers see that the mmo-survival horror market is capable of making money to a bigger extend,than they will crowd out this market by flooding it with products and have a cut throat competition.And the only way a product like dayz can survive that is by being innovative and havening good ideas and an interesting world.

BI is just lucky in the moment,because the only competition they have is Warz and Rust.But this will change very soon when the "big" players will enter the room.

Havening a 225km² big map with generic looking copy and paste buildings,wont help them,to survive that upcoming competition(and it will come up very soon)in any way.

Not if the other company's have all this better looking engines which are capable of making the world look way more dynamic and intractable with the environment and therefore believable.

Its like survival of the fittest.

Edited January 5, 2014 by pogosphere

[wgaf 251]

"Bohemia Interactive"

 

Translates into english as "run away, fast" 

[Wint3rZ 1]

If Dayz isnt what you want it to be then go play something else, simple as.

[Zollicoffer 200]

Sorry but if you dont have any valid counterarguments to my standpoint,than i have to claim myself as the winner of this discussion.

You have 24 hours to give me some valid arguments which i can not disable as i dit it with the replies of LordSnapCase or else i won.

I know the rules suck,but i have not made them.

 

Things don't work like that in the real world, kid. If no one changes their mind, then no one wins. Personally I don't even know what you are trying to argue, because even though I have a fair amount of patience, your last post was far too long to take seriously.

[Element47 2480]

yeah, so..

 

graphics are shit.

 

controls are shit.

 

user interface is... improving from FUBAR to bearable.

 

environment interaction is..  lacking at the least. ok lets be honest, its shit.

 

 

but the miraculous thing about the game is, that despite all these flaws its amazingly enjoyable. even in its broken, unfinished alpha state it is fucking awesome, it makes me stay up all night till.. let me look at the clock.. its now past ten in the morning and i played all night and didnt even notice that its morning outside.. its that enjoyable. its a work of art created with crude, worn bulding blocks.

 

i wouldnt mind if we had vehicle physics from Forza, cities from Watch Dogs and GTA, environment destruction and UI like in The Division, and voice acting by Johny Depp and Morgan Freeman, with a narrative by Claudia Black. But the core of fun in DayZ is not depending on polygon count, draw distance or texture resolution. Its the player interactions, and the stories that happen in this crazy sandbox.

 

your criticism is valid to a certain point. many things could be easily improved, others are bound to stay... lets say, below their potential. but it doesnt change the fact that its thoroughly enjoyable for many people. could it be better if it was recreated from scratch in a state-of-the-art engine? possibly. would it involve more ressources and time? pretty sure. would it work at all? not guaranteed.

 

i am content for now with the standalone being developed as an organic evolution stage of the mod. do i hope for constant improvement? you bet. i can even imagine a DayZ 2 with all the eye candy and technowizardry expected from a state of the art title. but for now, i'll settle for a fire axe and a can opener.

[hells high 676]

I started to skim, and within a few seconds I picked up on a few things:

 

"Don't tell me its just an alpha"

"3 Years"

"Incorrect or missing animations"

"Dynamical lighting"

"Mediocre graphics"

 

These key points literally told me everything I needed to hear. Don't buy into tests in the future, and have a nice day.

 

Edit:

 

"i have to claim myself as the winner of this discussion"

 

Pff haha.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Hells High

[pogosphere 27]

I proudly announce that we have a new winner in the category : Best post of this topic.
 

 

Things don't work like that in the real world, kid. If no one changes their mind, then no one wins. Personally I don't even know what you are trying to argue, because even though I have a fair amount of patience, your last post was far too long to take seriously.

 

The momentary ranking(top 3) including our new winner is:





First place

 

 

Things don't work like that in the real world, kid. If no one changes their mind, then no one wins. Personally I don't even know what you are trying to argue, because even though I have a fair amount of patience, your last post was far too long to take seriously.

 

 

 

2nd Place

 

 

 

Some serious fussy boo boo action on this post lol.

 

 

 

3rd  Place

 

 

You should just go and create an ultimate engine on your own and show the world how much smart you are! Better shut up and be happy that you can play what they give you, because it looks like that you are not enough smart to even post on forums, complaining about engine and static world, man, wake up and think, why should you even bring out your sad opinion about engine when its simple, if you dont like it, dont play it, but dont come here to be a smartass, try not to talk shit about things that you dont have a clue how they work or just how complex they are, and like i said, use your energy to create better one, gona buy it first! Now go s.m. d. 

 

I just finished reading your first post and came back to tell you again, go su*k Deans beans :) i vote + for your removal from dayz forums!

 

 

 

Hells High has also still a chance to climb up into top 3,if he does step up his game just a little bit more!
Hells High you heard it,don't give up so fast.I believe in you!


Disclaimer:

The price in the category "Best post of this topic" should not be confused with the "winning the discussion in this topic" award.Those two are different awards.
You can only "win the discussion in this topic" if you bring valid arguments.For winning the "Best post of this topic" award you don't need necessary valid arguments.



Now to the actual topicpart:
 
@Zollicoffer

Im sorry that you don't like it, but the forum rules are very clear in this point.Sadly there is pretty less room for arguing on that.
It seems that you have to accept it,or bring up some better arguments to disable my standpoint.If you don't,i won the discussion in this topic and with that i won the discussion in
the whole forum.


@e47
Yes the game is fun for the first 5 minutes of play,but than it falls appart.There are just not enough interesting locations and things to do on the map.
Relining on player vs player as core gameplayelement is just not enough,because it gets very repetitive,with the small toolset which is available at the moment,for the players.
And it does not look like BI is willingly to change that in an considerable amount of time.Why should they,after the players have showed them,with the huge amount of
steam sales,that they are totally happy with this kind of development policy.

Beyond that ,instable netcode,clipping errors and environmental pop ups of objects in the middle distance,giving the game the final deathblow at the moment.

There is no lack of good ideas from forum members.

Like:

-the integration of an ancient museum with swords,bows,morningstars and other medieval themed weapons, where the player can go and loot those things
-randomly on the map crashed ambulance vehicles which you can loot.
-former survivorcamps with zombified people crawling around in them.
-including rivers with floating corpses and items in them
-bitten players turn into zombie npcs.
-weather effects like fog,rain/floods or thunderstorm.



But i don't think that the developers take any of this ideas serious,even if they should.I would go further and would say that they don't take anything serious at all.
They are just to busy of doing nothing productive and writing disclaimers,that we should not buy their steamproduct at the moment,which does not hinder them at all to give it free for sell on steam ;)

Edited January 5, 2014 by pogosphere

[atmaca (DayZ) 48]

Tell me ONE game, that made a complete game in 1 YEAR, with a small team, with a 225km map, with almost every building entrable, that doesn't have bugs and glitches, and don't copied and pasted their last game like COD, tell me.

 

Skyrim

[hombrecz 832]

Before i start:

Plz dont answer the following questions with :"Its just an alpha!"

Its just an alpha for almost 3 years now.

You are working very hard on becoming the next duke nukem forever.

 

 

 

I expect a lot of hate from the mindless fanboys :

So dont dissapoint me.

 

 

DayZ SA Alpha was released after like year and few months, in your troll head you probably count DayZ MOD together with Standalone right?

 

Also your last two sentences pretty much mean, that you are a troll right?

 

Btw DayZ SA is done on modified version of Arma engine, why do you expect it to look like Crysis and have properties of single player game?

 

 

EDIT: Im sorry for feeding this troll :-(

 

EDIT2:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bro, what are you smoking? Skyrim done in 1 year and without bugs? LOL much?!

Edited January 5, 2014 by Hombre

[pogosphere 27]

DayZ SA Alpha was released after like year and few months, in your troll head you probably count DayZ MOD together with Standalone right?

 

Also your last two sentences pretty much mean, that you are a troll right?

 

Btw DayZ SA is done on modified version of Arma engine, why do you expect it to look like Crysis and have properties of single player game?

 

 

EDIT: Im sorry for feeding this troll :-(

 

EDIT2:

 

 

 

 

 

Bro, what are you smoking? Skyrim done in 1 year and without bugs? LOL much?!

Plz read the whole topic before you start quoting something out of context.

Beside of that pretty good rhetoric skills and also pretty solid feedback.

Welcome to the topic,Hombre.I feel that you are a pretty good contender for our beloved "Best post of this topic" award. Zollicoffer should have a close eye on you.

Edited January 5, 2014 by pogosphere

[atmaca (DayZ) 48]

Bro, what are you smoking? Skyrim done in 1 year and without bugs? LOL much?!

 

Yeah I had to say it's obviously not made by a small team and it's singleplayer. I just wanted to point out it has a quite large map with enterable buildings with proper animations and almost no bugs in comparison to arma/dayz. Also, it's not fair to say DayZ had 1 year of developement time as a standalone most of the game is already taken from ArmA2. 

 

However, being a coder myself I absolutely know it's super easy to fix bugs and glitches we are experiencing right now. So stop saying "it's alpha". These simple bugs and clunkyness should have been fixed 1 year ago. I'm just disappointed.

 

Let's list what they put over ArmA2 in 1 year period:

 

- New inventory system

- Weapon attachments (broken)

- A new server/client system to an extend (broken)

- Enterable buildings (broken)

- New clothing system (doesn't work as it should be)

- Some new items (almost all of them are broken / doesn't work)

 

That's all... seriously? 1 year for this and they as for another 1,5 year to beta? SERIOUSLY?

 

I knew all of this before and I bough the game knowing that just to help it improve. But seeing devs do almost nothing on every patch, makes me wonder if the complete game will be slightly better than this couple years after.

[Max Planck 7174]

I proudly announce that we have a new winner in the category : Best post of this topic.

 

 

 

The momentary ranking(top 3) including our new winner is:

First place

 

 

 

 

 

2nd Place

 

 

 

 

 

 

3rd  Place

 

 

 

 

 

Hells High has also still a chance to climb up into top 3,if he does step up his game just a little bit more!

Hells High you heard it,don't give up so fast.I believe in you!

Disclaimer:

The price in the category "Best post of this topic" should not be confused with the "winning the discussion in this topic" award.Those two are different awards.

You can only "win the discussion in this topic" if you bring valid arguments.For winning the "Best post of this topic" award you don't need necessary valid arguments.

Now to the actual topicpart:

 

@Zollicoffer

Im sorry that you don't like it, but the forum rules are very clear in this point.Sadly there is pretty less room for arguing on that.

It seems that you have to accept it,or bring up some better arguments to disable my standpoint.If you don't,i won the discussion in this topic and with that i won the discussion in

the whole forum.

@e47

Yes the game is fun for the first 5 minutes of play,but than it falls appart.There are just not enough interesting locations and things to do on the map.

Relining on player vs player as core gameplayelement is just not enough,because it gets very repetitive,with the small toolset which is available at the moment,for the players.

And it does not look like BI is willingly to change that in an considerable amount of time.Why should they,after the players have showed them,with the huge amount of

steam sales,that they are totally happy with this kind of development policy.

Beyond that ,instable netcode,clipping errors and environmental pop ups of objects in the middle distance,giving the game the final deathblow at the moment.

There is no lack of good ideas from forum members.

Like:

-the integration of an ancient museum with swords,bows,morningstars and other medieval themed weapons, where the player can go and loot those things

-randomly on the map crashed ambulance vehicles which you can loot.

-former survivorcamps with zombified people crawling around in them.

-including rivers with floating corpses and items in them

-bitten players turn into zombie npcs.

-weather effects like fog,rain/floods or thunderstorm.

But i don't think that the developers take any of this ideas serious,even if they should.I would go further and would say that they don't take anything serious at all.

They are just to busy of doing nothing productive and writing disclaimers,that we should not buy their steamproduct at the moment,which does not hinder them at all to give it free for sell on steam ;)

 

 

If you go that much off topic in your own thread, I guess you have said all you wanted to say.

Topic gets locked. That way everybody wins.

 

 

 

No i hate EA.

But i have visited the sim city 2013 forums a while ago to shit on them.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that you joined these forums to shit on us as well.

Please prove me wrong.