The value of a character

[Ubernaut 297]

Like pretty much everyone involved with DayZ, I've been thinking about how to encourage cooperation in the game.

 

TL;DR: I think we may need a class system.

 

How about this: Remember in the mod, how everyone was equally adept at medicine, automotive repair, aircraft maintenance and piloting? Well, piloting was dependent a lot on individual skill, but pretty much everybody had the same skill set. I always thought that was a little unrealistic. There are some things you'll need to already have under your belt when the apocalypse rears its ugly head. You're not going to just magically know everything.

 

What if you could choose a starting profession, but you were stuck with it for the duration? And what if your encounters with new players began to feel more like a recruitment effort? Say you're an Aircraft Mechanic, and the other guy's a Pilot. Maybe you'll only know if you ask.

 

Maybe you're the only guy for miles that knows how to make an improvised explosive? Or treat a bacterial infection? ...or distill everyone some sweet, sweet vodka?

 

If something like this doesn't encourage people to reach out and buddy up, then maybe humanity is indeed ready to die out.

 

Comments?

Edited December 30, 2013 by Ubernaut

[elLoCo 154]

"There are some things you'll need to already have under your belt when the apocalypse rears its ugly head. You're not going to just magically know everything."

 

 

 

Find the perk idea almost brilliant! My beans to you, good sir! :beans:

 

But you also should evolve. Learn something new with this ONE character that you play.

 

And here is why:

At the beginning you have only one profession e.g. hunter. (He knows how to build traps for deer) Yes you can push a giant rock down the hill - but even if you hit, there is most certainly not much intact of the animal. Ever tried meat with a melt-rupture?!?

 

The real benefit of learning is that a character becomes worthy. You don't want to start all over again with everything at zero but your primary skill.

This gives even bandits a reason to think, because right now they are the only 'faction' whose life is TOTALLY worthless, because the body is just a vehicle to carry their gear.

Edited December 26, 2013 by elLoCo

[Ubernaut 297]

Great feedback. Having a class that can build traps is another good one. Perhaps the devs could use their book system to teach a character a new skill, and thus increase our investment in ourselves beyond gear? Perhaps you'd have to actually spend a certain amount of time with a "skill book" equipped? What if that could be spread out over the course of several hours or days?

 

Afterthought: I hesitate a little at letting people learn new skills other than the one they started with... unless there was a limit of 2 or maybe 3. The point of this, remember, is to get people to rely on each other a little more, and see the value in that bambi they'd otherwise kill for a measly can of beans or 9v battery.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Ubernaut

[Horatio 22]

That book idea sounds interesting, it'd need some limitations and tweaking but could be an interesting idea :P

[Morgasm (DayZ) 10]

So what you're saying is that your character has a post-apocalyptic skill-set/profession?

 

Example:

 

Military/Veteran: Increased skill with guns and more athletic. (spawns with a handgun)

Hunter: Can create traps and spawns with hunting equipment (e.g. hunting knife)

Native Civilian: Knows his way around Chernarus like the back of his hand (this would be good for new people, but lacks any items given at the start)

Doctor/Nurse: Increased ability when using medical supplies, can create medical supplies. (begins with a few basic medical supplies)

Mechanic: Can salvage vehicles more efficiently and doesn't require nearly as many supplies and spawns with a wrench

Hiker: Spawns with a large backpack and some basic survival tools, doesn't tire as easily (like a compass and water purification pills)

 

These are just a few ideas but you could decide which one adheres to your play style the best. For instance if you prefer to go be a cooperative player you could be a Doctor or Mechanic. If you are a player whose more of a lone wolf you could be a hiker or a hunter because they're more suited to surviving. 

 

Thoughts?

[Ubernaut 297]

So what you're saying is that your character has a post-apocalyptic skill-set/profession?

 

Example:

 

Military/Veteran: Increased skill with guns and more athletic. (spawns with a handgun)

Hunter: Can create traps and spawns with hunting equipment (e.g. hunting knife)

Native Civilian: Knows his way around Chernarus like the back of his hand (this would be good for new people, but lacks any items given at the start)

Doctor/Nurse: Increased ability when using medical supplies, can create medical supplies. (begins with a few basic medical supplies)

Mechanic: Can salvage vehicles more efficiently and doesn't require nearly as many supplies and spawns with a wrench

Hiker: Spawns with a large backpack and some basic survival tools, doesn't tire as easily (like a compass and water purification pills)

 

These are just a few ideas but you could decide which one adheres to your play style the best. For instance if you prefer to go be a cooperative player you could be a Doctor or Mechanic. If you are a player whose more of a lone wolf you could be a hiker or a hunter because they're more suited to surviving. 

 

Thoughts?

It's a little more watered down than I was originally thinking. I'm not too keen on anyone spawning in with equipment already on them. This is about what a character *knows*, not what they have. Besides, then you'll get people killing doctors just for the med supplies they come in with.

 

No, what I'm saying is that someone with no skill in engines will not be able to get a car running. Whatsoever. They won't go through more materials; they just won't be able to do it. Sure, anyone can change a tire, but to do it right, you need someone with a skill. If you don't make people with certain skills *absolutely essential* for a clan to assemble a high-end base with working vehicles and an aircraft, you won't be rid of KoS mentality.

 

This would be a great use for the radios. As soon as you find a radio, you'd be able to link up with the doctors and trappers and handymen you need.

 

Here's another: How about a gunsmith? I doubt you could make weapons from scratch, but the ones you've found and stockpiled will need maintenance. This would go well with the item condition aspect the Standalone introduced. For that matter, you could have all sorts of professions dedicated to maintaining things. Maybe you could find a skill book on leatherworking! Patch up that backpack of yours that's falling apart.

[elLoCo 154]

The key feature of my idea is that you have a set of abilities like: sniper, hunter, farmer, engineer and a lot more.

Say for instance 25.

I don't think that you should be limitted in gathering new abilities.

 

But, you only have one ability of those when you're a fresh spawn.

 

You are only able to learn a trait from another player. So first priority is to stick to gether.

 

The fact that there is always players who prefer pvp and players who have a more social approach at games makes this just more appealing, if you ask me. ;)

But not only you have traits but there are tiers within them. Say I-V. You always start with one and you cannot perform any related action if you don't have the perk/trait/skill that belongs to it.

You only can advance by performing related actions.

 

 

Tiers:

I: you will most certainly botch the thing you try. (20% chance of success)

II: Not that bad, but you are still not the king of the hill. (40% cos)

III: You are better than average. (60% cos)

IV: Not many are as good as you. (80% cos)

V: Mastery - what ever this means. (100% cos)

 

AND REMEMBER! All is gone if your character dies. So be aware! And I would bet money that after acquiring the first or second trait you try to protect the life of your precious character at any cost. Because you invested time in a unique set.

 

tl;dr: Skills and tiers for not wasting any character, because you invested time in this specific one.

Edited December 26, 2013 by elLoCo

[Hoj0 (DayZ) 31]

i like this idea. Increasing the value of the individual character could reduce the KoS encounters. Farther from the coast.

 

I don't however, think it will get rid of bambi sniping.

 

 

Having a character who progresses the longer he is alive would decrease the likelihood of someone choosing to put themselves into a dangerous situation.

[elLoCo 154]

i like this idea. Increasing the value of the individual character could reduce the KoS encounters. Farther from the coast.

 

I don't however, think it will get rid of bambi sniping.

 

 

Having a character who progresses the longer he is alive would decrease the likelihood of someone choosing to put themselves into a dangerous situation.

You're definitely right. but that isn't that bad. Except fot those with small line of patience ^^

[Morgasm (DayZ) 10]

It's a little more watered down than I was originally thinking. I'm not too keen on anyone spawning in with equipment already on them. This is about what a character *knows*, not what they have. Besides, then you'll get people killing doctors just for the med supplies they come in with.

 

No, what I'm saying is that someone with no skill in engines will not be able to get a car running. Whatsoever. They won't go through more materials; they just won't be able to do it. Sure, anyone can change a tire, but to do it right, you need someone with a skill. If you don't make people with certain skills *absolutely essential* for a clan to assemble a high-end base with working vehicles and an aircraft, you won't be rid of KoS mentality.

 

This would be a great use for the radios. As soon as you find a radio, you'd be able to link up with the doctors and trappers and handymen you need.

 

Here's another: How about a gunsmith? I doubt you could make weapons from scratch, but the ones you've found and stockpiled will need maintenance. This would go well with the item condition aspect the Standalone introduced. For that matter, you could have all sorts of professions dedicated to maintaining things. Maybe you could find a skill book on leatherworking! Patch up that backpack of yours that's falling apart.

 

I would certainly be for this. The more incentives there are for people to work together the better.

[Ubernaut 297]

You are only able to learn a trait from another player. So first priority is to stick to gether.

(...)

The fact that there is always players who prefer pvp and players who have a more social approach at games makes this just more appealing, if you ask me. ;)

But not only you have traits but there are tiers within them. Say I-V. You always start with one and you cannot perform any related action if you don't have the perk/trait/skill that belongs to it.

You only can advance by performing related actions.

(...)

 

Tiers:

I: you will most certainly botch the thing you try. (20% chance of success)

II: Not that bad, but you are still not the king of the hill. (40% cos)

III: You are better than average. (60% cos)

IV: Not many are as good as you. (80% cos)

V: Mastery - what ever this means. (100% cos)

I suppose skill advancement could be a thing, but I'm not sure about anything that's too "grindy". You'll have people shooting their buddy in the arm and then bandaging him back up, just to shoot him again in order to "level up" their medicine skill. Anything that encourages farming is not a good thing in my book. It's not how things are done in the real world... Sitting there, taking a tire off and putting it back on... No.

 

Here's what I fear about learning skills from other players, especially if you're allowed to learn any number of skills:

"Hey buddy! Thanks for teaching me how to fly a heli!" *Shoots player in the head* "Now respawn as a medic this time!"

 

Skills should be taught from tech manuals ONLY. Maybe you have a bit of a career track, but maybe that career track needs to be advanced by reading more complex books? Anyone see how Project Zomboid did that? Dean's a fan of Project Zomboid...

 

I am not a believer in the apocalyptic Mary-Sue. There should be no characters with godly skills in everything, even if they have survived a long time. The character that's completely self-sufficient is prone to playerkilling just for something to do. Dean wants us to have things to do, and what could fill that void better than this?

[nickholder85@gmail.com 19]

The key feature of my idea is that you have a set of abilities like: sniper, hunter, farmer, engineer and a lot more.

Say for instance 25.

I don't think that you should be limitted in gathering new abilities.

 

But, you only have one ability of those when you're a fresh spawn.

 

You are only able to learn a trait from another player. So first priority is to stick to gether.

 

The fact that there is always players who prefer pvp and players who have a more social approach at games makes this just more appealing, if you ask me. ;)

But not only you have traits but there are tiers within them. Say I-V. You always start with one and you cannot perform any related action if you don't have the perk/trait/skill that belongs to it.

You only can advance by performing related actions.

 

 

Tiers:

I: you will most certainly botch the thing you try. (20% chance of success)

II: Not that bad, but you are still not the king of the hill. (40% cos)

III: You are better than average. (60% cos)

IV: Not many are as good as you. (80% cos)

V: Mastery - what ever this means. (100% cos)

 

AND REMEMBER! All is gone if your character dies. So be aware! And I would bet money that after acquiring the first or second trait you try to protect the life of your precious character at any cost. Because you invested time in a unique set.

 

tl;dr: Skills and tiers for not wasting any character, because you invested time in this specific one.

 

Good idea, I like the idea of the success rate thing, adds a bit of risk into a task the player is doing. For example setting traps which would lead to it snapping back on your hand and causing an infection or bleeding. 

 

I suppose skill advancement could be a thing, but I'm not sure about anything that's too "grindy". You'll have people shooting their buddy in the arm and then bandaging him back up, just to shoot him again in order to "level up" their medicine skill. Anything that encourages farming is not a good thing in my book. It's not how things are done in the real world... Sitting there, taking a tire off and putting it back on... No.

 

Here's what I fear about learning skills from other players, especially if you're allowed to learn any number of skills:

"Hey buddy! Thanks for teaching me how to fly a heli!" *Shoots player in the head* "Now respawn as a medic this time!"

 

Skills should be taught from tech manuals ONLY. Maybe you have a bit of a career track, but maybe that career track needs to be advanced by reading more complex books? Anyone see how Project Zomboid did that? Dean's a fan of Project Zomboid...

 

I am not a believer in the apocalyptic Mary-Sue. There should be no characters with godly skills in everything, even if they have survived a long time. The character that's completely self-sufficient is prone to playerkilling just for something to do. Dean wants us to have things to do, and what could fill that void better than this?

 

Yeah, this would be my concern too, farming stats. There are people who will grind the shit out of stats which devalues the whole concept of it. I think something like reading books once and only once may be good. For example, there are 50 books on the map, once one has been read it becomes useless to that player so they can't server hop and use the same one again but another player who hasn't learnt that book could equally read it too. However, a player could just use an empty server and eventually find all the books :/

 

So I dunno really lol, I would like to see some sort of investment in player stats or skills, but not something where people with too much time on their hands will just boost it and ruin the value of it.

[ClassifyLP 61]

All the beans to this thread. This would also make people form groups.

[EncryptedCode 5]

I like this idea. It would also give players another objective when playing. Unfortunately, people are so used to KOSing that I'm not sure if it would actually force players to work together.

[Ubernaut 297]

Good idea, I like the idea of the success rate thing, adds a bit of risk into a task the player is doing. For example setting traps which would lead to it snapping back on your hand and causing an infection or bleeding. 

 

 

Yeah, this would be my concern too, farming stats. There are people who will grind the shit out of stats which devalues the whole concept of it. I think something like reading books once and only once may be good. For example, there are 50 books on the map, once one has been read it becomes useless to that player so they can't server hop and use the same one again but another player who hasn't learnt that book could equally read it too. However, a player could just use an empty server and eventually find all the books :/

 

So I dunno really lol, I would like to see some sort of investment in player stats or skills, but not something where people with too much time on their hands will just boost it and ruin the value of it.

 

This guy gets it! And that is why I propose that once you've learned a couple skills of your own through books, you'll need to rely on other players for the extra stuff.

 

"Oh, you're an armorer and a medic but you want to see Chernarus from the air? Well it so happens I have a buddy who could use a few stitches, and he's the best flyboy in these parts..."

[ClassifyLP 61]

This guy gets it! And that is why I propose that once you've learned a couple skills of your own through books, you'll need to rely on other players for the extra stuff.

 

"Oh, you're an armorer and a medic but you want to see Chernarus from the air? Well it so happens I have a buddy who could use a few stitches, and he's the best flyboy in these parts..."

That seems like a really good idea.

 

Maybe you can only "Master" one skill and the next two you can only get to "Expert" while all the others will never go above "Intermediate". I really like how this idea is shaping; let's hope Dean takes a look at this.

[twingunz 308]

I personally don't feel skills and stats have a place in dayz merely because it creates a grinding mentality and Dayz is about survival i don't care about leveling up my hunting coz i just want to survive i don't care about finding a medic friend because right now im bleeding out and i get what you're saying i can still do these things i can just increase in them but it still creates a grinding mentality, instead of me focusing on supplies, surviving and what my character needs i'm thinking lets hit the next level cap, lets push this skill only x more of this till this, so many other games already have that why force it into this as well?

Skills / Stats / Perks aren't making me value my character, it's making me value my stats. the value of your character realise on the experience your character has while they live and the experience you had with them after they die, I've had so many good characters with awesome stories and cool situations where if the game had stats and levels i'd be focusing on those not the experience of the game.

All that said each to their own, that's just my feeling's on it pay me no mind, carry on!

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

I have always liked the "skills/class" idea, but it didn't seem too popular with the ModZ crowd. I think with skills instead of getting experience points or something like that from doing it in game you gain skills by reading books that you find in game. Everyone should be able to do anything, but some people are just better. Play a medic and gain enough skill you can blood bag yourself. Play a mechanic and gain enough skill you can fix more stuff with less tools ect.

[Aussie Bogan 350]

 I think we may need a class system.

 

 

I got dibs on being a wizard in the black castle :D

[RaxUK 61]

Instead of a set class system I think having roles that you 'level' over time would be better. If you act as a medic and heal people then you become more efficient at it, so you may use less of a bandager per use or become quicker at applying them and things like that. You should also lose all of these skills on death as it would give more of a reason to want to keep you character and there might be a reason to actually submit of people robbing you instead of just trying, and usually failing, to killing them or trying to run away because as it stands the value of a character is determined entirely by the gear they have.

Edited December 27, 2013 by RaxUK

[elLoCo 154]

That's more or less what I proposed. my beans to you!

Instead of a set class system I think having roles that you 'level' over time would be better. If you act as a medic and heal people then you become more efficient at it, so you may use less of a bandager per use or become quicker at applying them and things like that. You should also lose all of these skills on death as it would give more of a reason to want to keep you character and there might be a reason to actually submit of people robbing you instead of just trying, and usually failing, to killing them or trying to run away because as it stands the value of a character is determined entirely by the gear they have.

[floj 393]

Just had this same idea whilst posting in another thread...

 

Maybe some slight learning ability when travelling with 'masters' of each class, but it's not like you'll learn 7 years of medschool in the field... maybe some skills would be completely blocked at first but could be partially learned from actually assisting in procedures, as well as speeding up the procedures.

 

Nurse/Doctor/Surgeon - obvious! Anyone could roughly bandage someone up that's bleeding, a doctor would have you patched up in half the time but would be even quicker with a third person to put their thumb 'there' whilst they tie the knot.

Engineer - maybe separate roles as mechanic/technician if radios need patching up as opposed to cars. As already mentioned, a noob could probably change a tire or battery, but wouldn't have a clue what the malfunctioning part even is if an engine isn't starting.

Soldier - weapons maintenance/use... personally I probably wouldn't even be able to cock a gun IRL but then I'm not from a country where thats commonplace, I could probably swing an axe ok but might lose a finger or two in a panic. Less steady aim and more chance of a jam unless this is your specialty, although you could have your weapon specialist clean up your guns to a better level

Cook - Can open a tin of beans at a basic level whilst your canteen workers will be able to bulk out the grub with some flour or foraged ingredients. Top level chefs will make even the rotten stuff edible if they find some wild herbs and have a fire to cook on.

 

 

Then additional attributes like fitness/musculature could come into play, affecting terrain traversal speeds, general dexterity, load bearing and stamina levels as well.

Edited December 28, 2013 by phlOgistOn

[Ubernaut 297]

I know people are used to the idea of skill building and improvement, but don't you think dying and losing your character even WITHOUT having invested time in skill building is bad enough? I think it'd be more of a reason for people to try to kill one another, because they feed off that feeling of making someone rage.

 

The reason I support the all-or-nothing approach (aside from learning 1 or 2 additional skills through books) is that trollbandits won't get that satisfaction, but the average player has everything to gain from talking to you and finding out if you can be useful to each other. Right now, we're not useful to each other because -besides bloodbagging- we can already do everything ourselves.

 

I put my trust in Rocket that he'll figure out a way, even if it isn't this. And really, if KoS remains the norm, I don't mind. I've got a clan.

[elLoCo 154]

I'm not really comfortable about learning through books. Yes it is the common thing in RPGs to level your character but it has not much to do with real work.

 

I could accept that you are limited to a certain amount of traits, but I am totally sure that you would play different if you had more to lose than just your gear.

 

What i also would propose for the ability you spawn with is, that it is random.

So you can't just kill yourself because your buddy needs an engineer right now.

 

For the grinding aspect:

I think there are some lines of code that for example hinder you to just shoot you friend in the leg in order to learn how to bandage better and so on.

Edited December 29, 2013 by elLoCo

[Erik (DayZ) 61]

Hasn't this already been discussed over and over? I'm more than sure I heard Rocket say that he was planning to something close to this when the time comes. Obviously there are priorities so it will take quite a while.