Blood Bags/Saline

[Westoluth 4]

I have a few questions about blood and saline:

 

1. Do saline bags give you a permanent transfusion of blood or does it drain away over time. According to my fact checking in real life it is only a temporary solution to provide volume(when used for this purpose).

 

2. If it does give you a permanent transfunsion, should it be changed to better reflect what saline bags do in real life. I think the DayZ team did an incredible job with the blood transfusion system, and it would pain me if that was rendered obsolete by saline bags. It would also add another degree of difficulty to the game if saline bag transfusions where just a temporary solution until you could enter more desirable circumstances where a more permanent means of transfusion (blood bags) could be used.

 

3. Finally I wanted to know how blood expiration works, how long it takes to do so, any means of delaying it and any other information.

 

This is my first post so If I did anything that should not be done please tell me underneath, Thanks for your time!

If I am wrong about what saline bags do please inform me, I asked my Mom(Doctor)  :P

 

TL;DR

1. Saline bag blood transfusion give permanent blood or temporary?

2. Should it be permanent or temporary?

3. How does blood expiration work?

[flygamer1 176]

Yes

No

Dunno

[CREDiBLE 42]

Hi, welcome to the boards and thank you for a remarkably relevant first post.

 

1. I'm not sure, but I think the saline infusion gives a permanent increase in blood, just like a blood bag does. This is not official, just a result of my experience.

 

2. Saline solutions are a great substitute for blood transfusions because a saline solution of 9 mg per ml has an osmotic concentration very similar to that of blood plasma. A good example of how important saline solutions are in acute medical care can best be observed by temporary medical stations in war-ridden areas. In the battle of Waterloo (1815) the survival rate in these temporary medical stations, before being stable enough to be transferred to hospitals, were 91%. 100 years later, in WW1, the survival rate was 92%. In a 100 years, we only see a 1% increase in the survival rate. Today, the survival rate is very close to 100%. Primarily because of saline slutions and blood transfusions. It's important to remember that the saline solutions only help the body to function despite a heavy blood loss. But the body regenerate blood plasma on it's on, substituting the saline with blood over time untill you're back to normal. So I think the DayZ approach is not 100%, but more than realistic enough.

 

3. By blood expiration I assume you're talking about blood transferred out of the body into blood bags? Such bags will expire in less than 24 hours in "normal temperature". In refrigeated conditions (33.8 to 42.8 °F - 1.0 to 6.0 °C) blood bags have a shelf life of 6 weeks. In DayZ it works the same way. Under 24 hours for bags stored in normal conditions and over a month in refrigated condition. There is no way, as far as I know, to refrigerate the bags as of yet.

[CREDiBLE 42]

This is my first post so If I did anything that should not be done please tell me underneath, Thanks for your time!

If I am wrong about what saline bags do please inform me, I asked my Mom(Doctor)  :P

Just to clarify, your mom is more than right. In todays health care, fortunately without zombie infections, we have a very different perspective on treatment than we would in a zombie apocalypse. Suffering blood losses or being low on blood is obviously not a good feeling. Among other things it has a negative effect on blood pressure, and it puts a strain on the heart by having to use more force to circulate the remaining blood. The saline solution helps in that effect, because it acts in the same way blood plasma does, acting as volume carrying the blood cells and making the circulation better. But it doesn't have any other of bloods characteristics. Red and white blood cells are important parts of your immune system, and without them you'll be very exposed to illness and infections. Obviously, todays health care do not wish to expose their patients to these effects and give patients blood transfusions because waiting for the body to regenerate new blood is a risk to the patient. But in a post-apocalyptic world I'm afraid your health insurance won't cover that  :)

[Westoluth 4]

I agree that it is realistic enough, but if the saline bags give a permanent boost to blood then they essentialy render the entire mechanic of blood bags obsolete.

[blfonsworth 32]

I agree that it is realistic enough, but if the saline bags give a permanent boost to blood then they essentialy render the entire mechanic of blood bags obsolete.

 

 

Yesterday, once me and a friend found out the saline bags gave full blood, we dropped the blood kits we had in our first aid kits and have been picking up every saline bag we can carry without taking up too much space. I have 3 or 4 of them atm between my first aid kit and my protective case

[Westoluth 4]

Yesterday, once me and a friend found out the saline bags gave full blood, we dropped the blood kits we had in our first aid kits and have been picking up every saline bag we can carry without taking up too much space. I have 3 or 4 of them atm between my first aid kit and my protective case

Exaclty my point, saline bags are so powerful they make regenerating blood extremely easy, rendering blood bags, a mechanic I would like to explore, obsolete.

[gsp167 95]

TL;DR

1. Saline bag blood transfusion give permanent blood or temporary?

2. Should it be permanent or temporary?

3. How does blood expiration work?

 

1. A Saline IV Transfusion would be temporary, it would last until your body evacuates the fluid; by peeing, sweating, etc.

2. Temporary (Like 24-48 hours MAX)

[Westoluth 4]

1. A Saline IV Transfusion would be temporary, it would last until your body evacuates the fluid; by peeing, sweating, etc.

2. Temporary (Like 24-48 hours MAX)

Thanks, but are you talking about real life or in game?

[splitter 20]

Just my 2 cents:

 

1. The saline should be temporary and separate to blood. If you lost say 3000 blood and were left with 2000 the saline would top you up to 5000 total. However, the 3000 from saline would degrade over time and reduce your total blood (say by 1000 an hour). You should also get the low blood effects if only 2000/5000 of that blood is true blood. So a saline bag might wake you up from unconsciousness but the screen will be black and white and blurry till you either get a transfusion or regenerate enough blood.

 

2. Temporary effects of saline. Have it drain out at about 1000 units an hour to put a bit of time pressure on people to get a transfusion.

 

This system with blood types has a lot of potential but needs balancing with the saline. If saline does the same job as blood its basically a semi-complex but pointless system with very limited uses.

 

The units above are all arbitrary, I don't know true values.

Edited December 26, 2013 by splitter

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

Do you need another person to give you the blood bag and or transfusion like in ModZ?

 

I think it would be cool if saline bags could be given to yourself, but only do half as much as a blood bag. This is in line with game mechanics and some what the real world. I can give myself an IV and hook up a saline bag, I don't think I can give myself a blood transfusion (not sure never tried, is it the same?).

[LouisK 85]

I would prefeer over time regeneration no matter how thirsty or hungry you are over what there is currently now with a saline bag. While that would not be completely real, it would not render blood bags useless, since saline bags are way easier to get and less troublesome to apply.

 

Or having them expire after a while and as explained in other posts, work as a substitute that has to be administrated repeatdely over time until you're back to normal.

 

Let's say you could have two blood values

 

Real Blood

Saline

 

If you're shot and lose let's say, 3000 units of blood, you are left with 2000 Blood. Then you apply a saline, and you now have 2000 Blood and 3000 Saline.

 

Saline should decrease in two ways: Degenerative after time, so let's say, 500u/h or when the blood regenerates, this means, if you had 2000 blood and 3000 saline, and you regenerate 500 units of blood, your saline should decrease by 500, meaning both saline and blood conjunctevelly should not be more than the maximun amount of blood in the body....

 

But in no way it should regenerate blood on itself as it would be otherwise rendering the current transfusions useless. I do agree with having a more easier way of having regeneration of blood activated. I don't want to have to eat 10 cans of something to activate my blood regeneration system, but neither I want for it to be super easy to like one can...

 

Maybe this changes with the addition of cooking and all, after all, in the mod cans regenerate very little blood compared to what cooked meats do, and here that could be the same but with hunger and energy points.

 A full can (4 uses) could restore 10%/5% (2.5%/1.25% every full bite*)  (respectively) while meat (Let's suppose this is cow meat, and each bite consumes up to 50% of the meat) could restore 50%/%25 (25%/12.5% per full bite*)

 

 

*Full bite in cans would actually be 25% of it's use. This would mean 25% of the can would regenerate 2.5%h and 1.25%e (hunger, energy) every time, if the bite consumes less than 25% a three-simple rule should be applied:

 

25% - 2.5

x% - y

 

x being the percentage consumed and y the percentage of hunger it should restore: (x*2.5)/25=y

This would mean every 1% consumed, the hunger restored would be 0.1%

 

Same procedure for energy:

 

25% - 1.25

x% - y

 

x being the percentage left on the can and y the percentage of energy it should restore: (x*1.25)/25=y

This would mean every 1% consumed, the energy restored would be 0.05%

 

Same exact procedure to be followed with meats.

Edited December 26, 2013 by LouisK

[splitter 20]

Another way of attempting to balance this would be to make saline bags very rare. Or even better make it so blood bags give you a lot more of a boost than saline bags. There should be some benefit to going through all the blood testing and acquiring the blood.

[combatcomm1 234]

Am I the only one who had a saline treatment that was temporary? I got a saline IV from a friendly stranger yesterday, instant good vision. I logged in today to find my vision is blurry again. Not as white and bright but definitely blurry. Random bug/oddity or is the saline actually temporary?? 

[Westoluth 4]

Am I the only one who had a saline treatment that was temporary? I got a saline IV from a friendly stranger yesterday, instant good vision. I logged in today to find my vision is blurry again. Not as white and bright but definitely blurry. Random bug/oddity or is the saline actually temporary?? 

I still haven't firmly established whether it is permanent or temporary, if anyone can point to some concrete evidence that would be great!  :D

[Westoluth 4]

Bump to see if anyone has further info on Saline.

[Tango_911 5]

 

Am I the only one who had a saline treatment that was temporary? I got a saline IV from a friendly stranger yesterday, instant good vision. I logged in today to find my vision is blurry again. Not as white and bright but definitely blurry. Random bug/oddity or is the saline actually temporary?? 

 

I still haven't firmly established whether it is permanent or temporary, if anyone can point to some concrete evidence that would be great!   :D

 

 

I have a feeling it is a bug (either with the saline bag or graphical) because once you click on video settings, the blurriness goes away. 

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

Am I the only one who had a saline treatment that was temporary? I got a saline IV from a friendly stranger yesterday, instant good vision. I logged in today to find my vision is blurry again. Not as white and bright but definitely blurry. Random bug/oddity or is the saline actually temporary?? 

Was it me that gave it to you?

 

Anyway. Similar situation I filled a few blood bags from a stranger, he said everything went black so I gave him the IV. The server was resetting though so I wonder if I did the IV while the server still remembered everything.

 

Anyway I will be online in a little over an hour if anyone wants to test out any medical stuff. I died but think I have gathered enough to test out BB and IVs. I would also like to find some one with different blood type and put their blood in me to see the effects. Dedication to my craft.