Nerf NVG

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

Personally I'd rather see NVG removed. The game is nigh unplayable at night but these just make it a walk in the park. What needs to happen is they should be removed, but here's what you could do if that alternative is just too difficult to bear for some people who can't stand not hunting at night.

Add small particle effects to the NVG. It could be two slightly luminescent green lights emanating from the goggles themselves and on any scoped weapons with NV. This would at least give some warning.

Make conditions disable night vision. Things like fog and such are actually quite hampering to real night vision systems. Real night vision also doesn't function as effective as the game makes it out to be, often times they have a very limited range of only about 500 feet or about 175 meters.

Add a blinded condition to using NVG and experiencing bright light. This bright light could be in the form of flashlights or possibly a flare gun if it was added. You could also add mobile scene lamps/spotlights that could be used to blind NV users.

While I believe they need to be removed, this might help balance out the fatality of the NV in the game.

[Zeromentor 169]

How many NVG users have you met ingame? I haven't found a single one.

I recently started playing with a clan, I think they have 1 member with a pair. I think. I could be wrong that number is 0. NVGs are extremely rare, and the dupped ones are getting turned into food and stuff, so I don't see any reason to nerf or remove them. As batteries are not ingame (yet?), that limitor is the only thing not around that could affect their usage.

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

Just because something is rare doesn't mean it's not broken. The only thing that changes with rarity is the scale of something being broken. I've met one but I've seen many through videos and such, and the players have no such ability to know or retaliate.

Something being rare isn't a valid argument for maintaining its current state. There could be a super-rare drop of something that has .0001% chance of occurring, but if it's broken or imbalanced it's still going to be broken or imbalanced when someone gets one. The only thing rarity affects is the frequency that it imbalances the game at.

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

I think NVG's are fine the way they are. As Zeromentor said, they're extremely rare (maybe not to people who exploit the game but to most of us they are) so it's absolutely fine that they give players who find them a big advantage at night.

And besides, all players start with a flashlight now so night time isn't so unplayable.

If they get any kind of nerf, it should be something very subtle and plausible, like direct hits from zombies having a certain % chance of damaging NVGs beyond repair. Or simply up the rarity by a slight amount (not really necessary in my opinion as they already seem incredibly hard to find).

[Zeromentor 169]

Not to mention the rifles ingame that add more nighttime engagement options. Should we nerf and/or remove them as well?

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

I've already stated why rarity has no factor affecting the actual balance of something. Using my previous example if there's a mobile nuke that has a .000001% chance of spawning it's still broken.

And I have no actual problem with navigating at night time, it's an interesting experience and my suggestion doesn't even do anything to their PvE effectiveness. All it does is give players extremely small and realistic ways to counter their effectiveness. What I have a problem with is NVG and PvP and how it's literally impossible to fight back against NvG without your own set. The problem would actually be much less severe if they weren't rarer, ironically, because you'd be on the same playing field more often.

All the nerfs I suggested are very real and plausible because that's how NV works in reality.

If you can argue something beyond rarity for their balance then I would consider it, but from experience I can tell you that rarity does not affect balance positively.

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

Yes, I was referring to night vision as a whole when designing this suggestion. There is no counter aside from chucking flares and chemlights all over the place and that's just not something that is effective or plausible. Something like I suggested is plausible. There is absolutely NO way to counter NV without your own NV equipment. The guy with NV will win absolutely every single time because of how dark the night is right now (lunar cycle) and even when the moonlight is brighter it's still always NV being at a huge advantage. There is no other equipment in the game that so boosts your effectiveness like NV.

It is arguably the most sought after equipment par vehicles and it's not hard to wonder why. If something's that desirable you really need to assess its balance down to the essentials regardless of rarity. And the essential question is does anyone who doesn't have this have any sort of chance? Examine other things in the game. There's plenty of different kinds of guns, some better some worse, but at least you can always shoot another gun with any gun and kill him, so you have a decent chance for survival. Night vision? There's no way you'll ever be able to counter night vision without your own set of night vision equipment, and that's the problem I have with night vision.

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

I've already stated why rarity has no factor affecting the actual balance of something. Using my previous example if there's a mobile nuke that has a .000001% chance of spawning it's still broken.

And I have no actual problem with navigating at night time' date=' it's an interesting experience and my suggestion doesn't even do anything to their PvE effectiveness. All it does is give players extremely small and realistic ways to counter their effectiveness. What I have a problem with is NVG and PvP and how it's literally impossible to fight back against NvG without your own set. The problem would actually be much less severe if they weren't rarer, ironically, because you'd be on the same playing field more often.

All the nerfs I suggested are very real and plausible because that's how NV works in reality.

If you can argue something beyond rarity for their balance then I would consider it, but from experience I can tell you that rarity does not affect balance positively.

[/quote']

You haven't convinced me they are broken though... that's the thing.

This isn't an online deathmatch FPS game where balance is really important. Yes, there are PvP encounters, but the mod is primarily intended to be a realistic zombie apocalypse survival simulation.

In terms of realism, of course someone sitting on a hill at night with a pair of NVGs and a sniper rifle is going to have an overwhelming advantage over someone running around in the dark with a flashlight. That makes perfect sense. Fuck balance. In this kind of game, realism is more important, and it's realistic for players with better loot to have a big advantage.

[Zeromentor 169]

Road flares don't last as long in reality. Scrap metal isn't a car's bandaid in reality. Not all flashlights are handheld floodlights in reality. Not every person likes to wear hats in reality. What I'm saying is that this is a game, and a lot of what is in it isn't reality. Sure, this game is pretty realistic, but not to the point that we have to stop every few hours so our character can stop at a nearby bush with some leaves and wipe his butt.

Skipping that immature rant, NVGs only give a person an advantage at night, on night servers, which are few, and only against people that willingly play on them (which seems to be 10 players per night server). What many people don't know is that NVG's don't instantly point out players, and don't guide their users across the map to find targets. You can hide just as easily at night as you can in the daylight, provided you use similar tactics.

Also, I heard roadflares do wonders for blinding NVG users, not to mention those users either stick around the main coastal cities, or the airfields. And no, an NVG is nothing like a Nuke. One could argue that all scoped rifles in the game are broken as they allow someone to accuractely fire at ranges that iron sights have major issues with. Or that trucks are unfair as they allow one person to carry far more than another and travel faster with increased defences, seeing as trucks are a limited commodity, much like NVGs (expect the latter respawn in the loot tables).

Sucks to fight someone at night when the have NVGs, much like how it sucks to fight a guy using a sniper rifle when you just spawned or only have a melee weapon.

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

Yes' date=' I was referring to night vision as a whole when designing this suggestion. There is no counter aside from chucking flares and chemlights all over the place and that's just not something that is effective or plausible. Something like I suggested is plausible. There is absolutely NO way to counter NV without your own NV equipment. The guy with NV will win absolutely every single time because of how dark the night is right now (lunar cycle) and even when the moonlight is brighter it's still always NV being at a huge advantage. There is no other equipment in the game that so boosts your effectiveness like NV.

It is arguably the most sought after equipment par vehicles and it's not hard to wonder why. If something's that desirable you really need to assess its balance down to the essentials regardless of rarity. And the essential question is does anyone who doesn't have this have any sort of chance? Examine other things in the game. There's plenty of different kinds of guns, some better some worse, but at least you can always shoot another gun with any gun and kill him, so you have a decent chance for survival. Night vision? There's no way you'll ever be able to counter night vision without your own set of night vision equipment, and that's the problem I have with night vision.

[/quote']

Again, this isn't a standard online FPS game in deathmatch mode. Balance between players doesn't matter. Realism is what matters, and it's realistic that survivors who are better equipped should have a massive advantage over those who are poorly equipped.

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

It's a multiplayer game where players compete for resources. It's not a simulation by any lengths. We have a hunger bar, a thirst bar, HP, a loot system, early game weapons and end game weapons. It's definitely a game. Regardless of whether it's a game or not I don't even feel like you've actually looked at my suggestion. Just look at it. Look at how overwhelming of an advantage the NV user has over the non NV user still. It's tremendous. The problem I have right now is players have NO WAY of ever hoping to fight against a night vision user without night vision themselves. Let me present this, again.

Players can get plenty of guns. There's also kinds of guns. Some guns are a lot better than others. Some are really terrible. Some excel at certain situations. Some equipment is pretty nice and meaningfully rare. But, no matter what kind of gun players have they'll always have a fighting chance of something at least realistic. You can always cap a guy in the head with your makarov even if he's got an AK47 or snipe a guy with a super-rare sniper rifle with your Winchester if you're good enough or just lucky.

Now look at night vision. You can't see ANYTHING at night without revealing yourself for at least a little bit. Up until you find night vision, nothing will ever change that. No flare will magically light up everything and no piece of equipment will really improve your effectiveness that much at night. But once you get night vision oh man you're on top of the world now, all those problems you ever had at night before are gone and you're killing everyone and they haven't got a chance so you know they're going down. They've got no chance what so ever, it doesn't matter what gun they have (aside from the ones that give NV) or how much equipment they've got, if they don't have NV equipment they are completely screwed and have no chance whatsoever. What night vision does is make you basically the equivalent of one of those guys camping balota deer stands waiting for newbies to come up and kill them, except, unlike newbies you've actually got stuff for fighting. You've actually got quite an investment, or at least enough to get a gun. And aside from the night vision you've got a fighting chance at anyone else going against you.

Night vision is essentially like having a gun and the other guy having none. He has no way to fight back ever.

Now look at my actual suggestion, again, or seriously if you haven't looked at it already. All I'm suggesting is to add small, realistic ways to actually combat night vision. You can try blinding the guy, if you see him, which is unlikely. You can go out on a foggy night or something and hope he doesn't see you, and that's about it. The green lights I was suggesting were very minute and faint and only recognizable if someone was really looking for them. What I'm suggesting isn't to remove them, that's what I want to do, but this suggestion itself is not about that or for that. I'm just suggesting small, realistic ways that night vision can be toned down from its fatality in terms of combat effectiveness right now.

[xenogias 0]

I've already stated why rarity has no factor affecting the actual balance of something. Using my previous example if there's a mobile nuke that has a .000001% chance of spawning it's still broken.

And I have no actual problem with navigating at night time' date=' it's an interesting experience and my suggestion doesn't even do anything to their PvE effectiveness. All it does is give players extremely small and realistic ways to counter their effectiveness. What I have a problem with is NVG and PvP and how it's literally impossible to fight back against NvG without your own set. The problem would actually be much less severe if they weren't rarer, ironically, because you'd be on the same playing field more often.

All the nerfs I suggested are very real and plausible because that's how NV works in reality.

If you can argue something beyond rarity for their balance then I would consider it, but from experience I can tell you that rarity does not affect balance positively.

[/quote']

You haven't convinced me they are broken though... that's the thing.

This isn't an online deathmatch FPS game where balance is really important. Yes, there are PvP encounters, but the mod is primarily intended to be a realistic zombie apocalypse survival simulation.

In terms of realism, of course someone sitting on a hill at night with a pair of NVGs and a sniper rifle is going to have an overwhelming advantage over someone running around in the dark with a flashlight. That makes perfect sense. Fuck balance. In this kind of game, realism is more important, and it's realistic for players with better loot to have a big advantage.

If we are talking realism then the OP's ideas fit in much better than yours. You simply can not throw out the word realism and then ignore how REAL NVG's work.

As to this not being a deathmatch FPS thats not its intent. But thats what its turning out to be. Even Rocket made mention of it in a couple interviews if I remember correctly. Not that I mind bandits and douchebags. They make it all the more interesting.

[Zeromentor 169]

How to hunt a NVG user.

Place Tent. Place campfires. Place roadflares. Place one or more lookouts. Place one bait, have him run around back and forth to a nearby coastal city.

Lookouts are just that, and need to find somewhere to hide.

NVG users will attempt to kill the runner. Watch for flashes, and hunt them. Slowly.

Unlike snipers during the day, whom use ghillie suits and probably hunt in packs, these night time hunters are both harder to see, and easier. Their muzzle flash gives them away.

Also- Have you ever tried to outsnipe someone using an AS50, M107 or DMR with a Winchester or Makarov? Possible, yes. Probably going to happen? Not in your game.

NVG users tend to do the same thing at night as they do in the day. Camp or move slowly. Snipe. Stay concealed. If you nerf their NVG, they just watch you in the night, waiting for a flashlight, road flare or something else to give away your position. They won't reveal themselves like you might.

A long range rifle isn't fair to a person with a shotgun, pistol or SMG. Nighttime, daytime, they only have the barest of luck on their side- to sneak up on, or wander across, the sniper.

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

You're not really rebutting to my points.....and you take assumptions upon situations: the sniper will not move, the sniper will not kill on the first shot, the sniper is working solo. The entire problem I have is the fatality of the NV itself. I never would deny that you can't hunt them, but you're very unlikely to be successful in doing so, much more so than you would be at day time.

And just to highlight "Also- Have you ever tried to outsnipe someone using an AS50, M107 or DMR with a Winchester or Makarov? Possible, yes. Probably going to happen? Not in your game." This is what I'm saying.....having night vision is just like this situation you're arguing except even more one-sided. You could pray that you see the muzzle-flash and he misses the first shot but like you said in your example, "not in your game".

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

I still don't think there's anything wrong with NVGs. Players with NVGs SHOULD have a tremendous advantage at night over survivors who have nothing but a flashlight, flares, or chemlights.

Your argument that players with common guns at least stand a chance against players with rare guns is completely invalid. ALL guns are lethal to an extent so it's realistic and plausible that someone with a Makarov would stand at least some chance against someone with a powerful assault rifle. A person running around in the dark with nothing but a road flare and a pistol standing a chance against someone with NVGs is not realistic or plausible. Unless they're somehow able to sneak up on the person with NVGs, the person with NVGs should have an overwhelming advantage.

As for your suggested changes to NVGs, i'll be honest, I don't really know much about NVGs or how they function. If the changes you suggested would truly make them more realistic in-game, fine. But any changes should be made solely for that reason - not to "nerf" them. If a by-product of making the NVGs more realistic is that they're slightly less effective, so be it.

[Zeromentor 169]

The sniper WILL kill on the first shot. Even a lowly Lee Enfield, without a scope, is a one shot at considerable ranges.

You can have NVG as well, but once they spot you first, it doesn't matter. Boom, dead. Nothing changed. If NVGs are nerfed by what range they can see, then they'll still use them to snipe you. If they nerf them by the extreme (a few hundred feet range) then they'll use silenced weapons to rip you apart or shotguns, or just anything else. You still can't defend yourself without a pair.

If they remove them, people will be forced to use the other options, which still provides light on their position, and calls the sniper to their location with a scope and high powered rifle round.

Again, nothing really changed.

Not all snipers work solo, they use spotters, or gatherers to collect the loot from the corpses that pile up. And you romping through the woods with a flashlight in hand do not help your survival odds, NVG or no.

If they allow everyone to have them, then it becomes Day-Long daytime, and snipers in ghillie suits still rule the land. Have fun.

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

If we are talking realism then the OP's ideas fit in much better than yours. You simply can not throw out the word realism and then ignore how REAL NVG's work.

Like I said' date=' I really don't know much about NVGs or how they work. If the OP's ideas genuinely would make them realistic, fine. But the changes should be made with that in mind - not simply to nerf them or to give survivors without NVGs a better chance.

Perhaps the OP should have called the topic "Make NVGs more realistic" and based his argument around how they're not realistic enough at the moment... instead of calling it "Nerf NVGs" and whining about how survivors without NVGs can't compete.

As to this not being a deathmatch FPS thats not its intent. But thats what its turning out to be. Even Rocket made mention of it in a couple interviews if I remember correctly. Not that I mind bandits and douchebags. They make it all the more interesting.

Rocket should do everything in his power to stop the game turning into a PvP deathmatch experience with loot. It should be a realistic open-world zombie survival simulator where PvP killing is always a danger, but an infrequent occurrence.

In fact, a lot of the recent changes to the game (such as the removal of the starter gun and the attempt at making zombies more dangerous) do seem like changes aimed at shifting the focus away from PvP deathmatching.

[evilcoookie 0]

I agree with OP. Balance is important especially in a game which is at its core, is about competing for limited resources. As OP also said, NVGs are undetectable and counterplay only exists if they miss the first shot, then your chances are still pretty grim.

The advantages that NVGs give players is unmatched. People can easily see and hear vehicles coming miles away. Moving smartly from cover to cover will generally keep you safe from snipers. Nighttime NVG use essentially grants the user invisibility, the user see's the enemy, the enemy is oblivious until it's too late. Throwing flares at an NVG user is the equivalent of throwing flour at an invisible gunman to make him visible.

That's how broken NVGs are. It makes you an invisible gunman. That's the point OP is trying to make. So if youre trying to justify NVGs in their current state, explain how invisibility is balanced. And if you think balance doesn't matter, gtfo the forums.

[Turin (DayZ) 3]

I agree with OP. Balance is important especially in a game which is at its core' date=' is about competing for limited resources. As OP also said, NVGs are undetectable and counterplay only exists if they miss the first shot, then your chances are still pretty grim.

The advantages that NVGs give players is unmatched. People can easily see and hear vehicles coming miles away. Moving smartly from cover to cover will generally keep you safe from snipers. Nighttime NVG use essentially grants the user invisibility, the user see's the enemy, the enemy is oblivious until it's too late. Throwing flares at an NVG user is the equivalent of throwing flour at an invisible gunman to make him visible.

That's how broken NVGs are. It makes you an invisible gunman. That's the point OP is trying to make. So if youre trying to justify NVGs in their current state, explain how invisibility is balanced. And if you think balance doesn't matter, gtfo the forums.

[/quote']

So you're trying to tell me that in real life, a sniper sitting on a hill with night-vision goggles in pitch-black darkness wouldn't be an "invisible gunman" to someone running around with nothing but a flashlight? :-/

If you think balance matters more than realism in this kind of game, gtfo the forums.

[Seanosilas 11]

So you are saying...

We should work hard to earn really expensive gear, to be nerfed?

Have you noticed that you WORK FOR everything in this game?

Whats the point of good guns/equipment if they are nerfed. :@

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

The sniper WILL kill on the first shot. Even a lowly Lee Enfield' date=' without a scope, is a one shot at considerable ranges.

You can have NVG as well, but once they spot you first, it doesn't matter. Boom, dead. Nothing changed. If NVGs are nerfed by what range they can see, then they'll still use them to snipe you. If they nerf them by the extreme (a few hundred feet range) then they'll use silenced weapons to rip you apart or shotguns, or just anything else. You still can't defend yourself without a pair.

If they remove them, people will be forced to use the other options, which still provides light on their position, and calls the sniper to their location with a scope and high powered rifle round.

Again, nothing really changed.

Not all snipers work solo, they use spotters, or gatherers to collect the loot from the corpses that pile up. And you romping through the woods with a flashlight in hand do not help your survival odds, NVG or no.

If they allow everyone to have them, then it becomes Day-Long daytime, and snipers in ghillie suits still rule the land. Have fun.

[/quote']

You're still not really arguing against my points...and you're arguing against your previous example for hunting NVG users. The problem with night vision is that even if you could see him by sight, you won't because it's too dark to see. It's like wallhacks almost to be honest, because it's that powerful. I would rather have night vision and a makarov than no night vision and any other weapon I could choose in the game, because it's that imbalanced. My suggestion offers very real methods to at least attempt to combat the NV user and possibly win the encounter, but it's still heavily tipped in the NV user's odds.

Even if a sniper has a ghillie suit it's not like we can't see him at all he just has some camouflage. At night everything is pitch dark and the only reason you can see the ground is cause of the stars in the sky, it's not even remotely the same.

Also, if you actually research what you claim is so realistic (because you've obviously used night vision with guns before) then you'd realize that night vision actually only goes out a couple hundred feet for most pairs. The higher quality ones are reserved for elite teams that have no place in our world of DayZ.

Reducing the range of the NV actually effects combat a lot, you could actually manage to locate muzzle fire and toss a flare or something at a couple hundred feet and return fire rather than if they were sniping you. It's much different and actually offers much better odds than before.

"So you are saying...

We should work hard to earn really expensive gear, to be nerfed?

Have you noticed that you WORK FOR everything in this game?

Whats the point of good guns/equipment if they are nerfed."

Work hard? I could run straight from spawn to NW airfields and server hop for about 20 minutes and get NVG or just get lucky on my first visit and get lucky that I don't die. Is that working HARD? No that's just getting lucky. Second, it doesn't matter how hard you worked for anything. I've stated this multiple times in previous posts but for some reason people continue to ignore the fact that if something is rare, but it's still imbalanced, It. Is. Still. Broken. Do any of you even READ my suggestion itself? Or do you just read the topic and start raging at me? ALL I suggest is REALISTIC and MINOR changes to the NVG that make them closer to reality and more bearable to someone who doesn't have them. I'm not snatching them away, though I don't think they actually have a place in the game, that's not the point of this suggestion.

To all you realism/balance war people out there, you need to stop acting like we aren't shooting at each other because we are. But, even though we are shooting at each other the major thing about our game is that it is realistic. If it was all about balance, night vision would be gone in an instant in my eyes. I seriously remain skeptical, too, that you can actually find a functioning pair of night vision goggles in some backcountry military base in Russia. But, they are in the game because Rocket, or at least someone has belief that they would be present and fit our game. So, concede that it's not just a game, it's a realistic attempt at recreating the conditions of the world, only with a zombie apocalpyse, and concede that part of the game requires balance because part of the game is PvP

[cherocha 4]

Personally I'd rather see NVG removed.

You lost me at this point.

If NVGs were nerfed, the benefits would not be equal to the work it takes to obtain them. There are other items in the game which give people no less of an advantange to what the NVGs give, like the L85A2 RIS CWS for one.

To make use of the NVGs, users also have to play primarily at night and in the lower possible light levels, when the servers generally aren't populated enough to confer the kind of "fatal" advantage that you exaggeratedly try to assert there is. At any other time of day a makarov can still end an NVG user's life. At night, the same if the user telegraphs his position and doesn't play smart, or if there's another player with either a L85A2 RIS CWS or even an FN FAL ANPV S4.

If you want "balance" and noob friendliness, go play a regular online FPS.

[Zeromentor 169]

Hi, I'm Mister Random Player Ingame, and I like the name Random231.

So Random231 is playing at night. He has but a few limited options during this time of the month, with the limited moonlight, and serious lack of starlight. He uses a flashlight.

Player B sees him, plants his DMR squarely on the squirming white dot that lights up the land and BOOM. Light stops moving, a KILL is counted on the debug window.

Second try. Random231 tries to use Road Flares, sadly, he can't see the land near him so he needs to skirt around them so he isn't spotted by the sniper. Worse yet, when he throws them he is easily spotted. Boom, second death.

Now Random231 tries Chemlights. To his surprise, they work wonders, until he gets too close to a sniper. Boom, dead again.

Notice a sniper with NVGs hasn't popped up yet. They are that rare. Even if those other evil dastardly players had a pair, the outcome would be the same.

If you run around in the night without a lightsource, you are effectively blind, and your only worry are zombies and NVG users. But are you really playing at that point?

Doesn't matter. Nerfing NVGs does not fix a problem, as it doesn't cause one that needs fixing. Sure, toning them down to realistic levels might be needed, I don't know their effective range ingame. But 'NERFING NVGS" does not improve a player's odds of survival at night, considering most people don't OWN A PAIR OF NVGS.

[Champloo (DayZ) 5]

I've seriously considered just reposting my first post, because you guys seriously, especially cherocha don't act (and in his case didn't at all) like you even read my post. It's like you hear the word nerf anything and some alarm goes off in your head that makes you become ignorant. My post barely actually does anything to the balance. You might have had a 95% chance of dying, now you have possibly a 91% chance. It's that small, but enough to make a minor difference, but it still doesn't really affect it that much. It is a realistic addition to the game, and I have had it with explaining it to you because you either haven't read it, don't read half of what I post, or don't understand the simple concepts I'm explaining to you.

IN SUMMATION: Rare=/=Balanced, read my actual posts, stop being ignorant, all I'm suggesting is a few realistic changes

[Zeromentor 169]

Personally I'd rather see NVG removed. The game is nigh unplayable at night but these just make it a walk in the park. What needs to happen is they should be removed' date=' but here's what you could do if that alternative is just too difficult to bear for some people who can't stand not hunting at night.

Add small particle effects to the NVG. It could be two slightly luminescent green lights emanating from the goggles themselves and on any scoped weapons with NV. This would at least give some warning.

Make conditions disable night vision. Things like fog and such are actually quite hampering to real night vision systems. Real night vision also doesn't function as effective as the game makes it out to be, often times they have a very limited range of only about 500 feet or about 175 meters.

Add a blinded condition to using NVG and experiencing bright light. This bright light could be in the form of flashlights or possibly a flare gun if it was added. You could also add mobile scene lamps/spotlights that could be used to blind NV users.

While I believe they need to be removed, this might help balance out the fatality of the NV in the game.

[/quote']

First Paragraph, you want NVGs removed. I do not, you do not make a good arguement for why.

Second Paragraph isn't realistic. Anyhow, a sniper with NVGs could easily hide in or under the branchs of a tree, or bush, disguising the green lights. There would be no warning, much like red chemlights, due to their limited size.

Third Paragraph asks for natural ways to counter NVG, such as fog. Due to lack of such ingame features, that isn't possible. Also asking for realistic ranges. THAT MIGHT WORK. But it won't stop what is already happening ingame.

Fourth is asking for another counter. Road Flares do this, as I am told. Flashlights might as well, why don't you test it out? They already act like floodlights ingame.

Fifth, more like sentence, asks for removal again. No arguement for why, as removal doesn't stop people from killing you at night. They can still see you without the use of lightsources if the victim (IE You) still use them to light your way.

Did you like that OP?