A foundation for co-operation

[Kageru 18]

Greetings, I write this by torchlight in the hills while the goat cooks. This mod is really interesting and atmospheric but it didn't take too long that I had the rudiments of survival (though who would have thought finding something to carry water would be harder than finding guns?) and started thinking about what came next.

In pretty much all the zombie comics and movies I've seen a couple of things happen:

- A lot of people panic, fail to adapt, get surprised and get eaten or shot. Lots of that going on.

- Some people adapt too well, find a high powered weapon, and decide that makes them a god in this new world and everyone else is a danger / opportunity target / loot stash. Lots of this going on.

- Some people focus on survival so get the necessities and head for the hills avoiding all contact since a lot of the people around are armed and crazed. Ultimately a somewhat lonely game experience though.

But there's something else that happens in zombie movies and isn't in the game. People try to work together, create a small pocket of tenuous security, and try to hold out. Indeed almost every movie I know is about this group trying to survive not about a lone sniper on a rooftop or a mountain top hermit.

Of course the nature of the game makes it hard to have anything persistent (or even find each other), and you don't want to take control out of the players hands, or need too much content. So while I hope there is a plan for a cooperative end-game by the people who are doing the hard work I'll throw out some ideas I had simply to get them out of my head:

1. Somewhere on the map, ideally randomized, there's a camp or repurposed building which is a survivor camp, possibly more than one. It has a couple of NPC guards who will shoot zombies or bandits within their range. This gives a small zone of weak security and makes up for players not being persistent. This camp provides shelter, a place to gather and form hunting parties, a place to camp out of the game and log back in safely but not much more. Notes giving this location (if random) could even be a loot drop.

2. A bandit is someone whose account (or they'll be "washed") has killed more survivors than X per hour of game-time (say 1 per 3). Survivors won't know if you've made a couple of opportunistic or self-defence kills, but if you've killed 100 survivors a day you are going to be a hot topic of discussion. So if a guard or player who has visited the camp can identify a person they'll know if they're a bandit or not (ie. red name). The main advantage is that it's really easy to automate, no complex code needing to try and work out who shot first, no gaming it (especially if the stats are hidden) and allows for the occasional "oops" or "yeah, co-operation is fine, but he needed to be shot for the common good".

Most everything else could be left up to the players and what ever evolves. You still won't be able to fully trust each other because people can be moles for the bandits, potential bandits, low-key bandits or thieves but at least there's a place to gather and explore the issue of trust in a zombie apocalypse rather than everyone heading for the hills or shooting it out in the cities. There's some other game-play that could be extended from this, but its also more complexity:

A. The humanity system could tie into it. Both being a bandit and occasionally needing the company of others. Most people probably can't handle living in the hills, dodging the dead and killing bandits forever, they'd need a place to recover. Other people would flagrantly advertise the fact they want none of it and choose to wear a bandit skin (and find another sort of stability).

B. The camp could move. It might also need to be constructed, say it gains strength the more material is scavenged to build it or takes damage from presumably fighting off zombie hordes. So there's a reason to form a party and go scavenge material from industrial sites. Or maybe they can craft found objects into useful stuff.

C. It makes a reasonable place to recover from infection, exposure or broken bones over time. The medicine will be instant but of course probably camped / dangerous to get. So you have to make a decision.

D. It could be a place to park personal vehicles? I've no idea how that part of the game works though (not really interested either).

E. It could have a per-server "community chest". Co-operative people *might* engage in altruism and trade, or they might steal everything in it, would be fun to find out. It also gives a motive to keep going out on hunting parties even when you've personally found most of the stuff you want.

F. The guards will shoot at anyone who injures a survivor within their perception range (reduces exploit potential).

G. You could have Jerry cans of water giving a place to fill flasks, but sometimes needing to be refilled themselves.

H. Getting drunk... hey, it's another way of dealing with the end of civilisation and not all those bottles of scotch can be empty.... yet. But you'd only drink in a place you feel somewhat secure.

Anyway, thanks for reading if you got here, sorry for it being long but wanted to get my ideas out so I can stop thinking about them :) Thanks again to the mod creators, there's nothing quite like this out there.

[santiagoaquino6@hotmail.com 37]

It's like people needing DarkRP to roleplay on gmod servers.

It's not that hard to find eachother, and it's not that hard to barbwire around a castle or small town and settle in it.

[Kageru 18]

It doesn't work so well because players, players per server and player reputation (mostly in terms of PK status) aren't persistent. There needs to be some focal point to make up for that. And a place that won't have a sniper rifle trained on it when you log back in.

At the moment using global chat to "find each other" is pretty much like throwing chum into shark infested waters. I cringe when I see noobies giving their locations in global and generally don't have to wait long for the death messages.

Incidentally bandits already have a focal point in game since spawns are known and static. It's as much a balance for that.

[DemonGroover 8836]

From what i have heard in interviews with Rocket this is kinda the direction he wants to take - eventually. The ability for Survivors (or bandits) to make fortified areas, the option for lone wolf characters to build cabins and for bandits to do whatever it is bandits do. However i think he is going to put the mechanics in place so players can do it if they want to, not build the areas himself. I dont know if NPC patrolled safe zones are the way to go.

The game will evolve and i am sure the game will be alot different in a years time.

[Kageru 18]

I assumed something similar having found barbed wire, tank traps and other construction stuff which is currently pretty useless (well, maybe a sniper guarding their rear?). But the interesting idea was how to imitate the idea of a permanent camp when players themselves aren't persistent. NPC guards just represent the fact that players don't really vanish from the world and as such would look after their own security during down times. Easy to code too since I think ARMA probably has the idea of forward military bases and NPC guards already.

It would be good to have some primitive system in though so new players know the game is evolving to support several game styles. Cherno deathmatch, Hill Hermit and Banding together. It also means the game wouldn't need any whining about or complex anti-PK mechanics. Players could reasonably be expected to posse up and hunt down active PK's.

[global420 0]

I had a similar idea for a base too. I had a txt file with ideas copy/pasting here now.

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Independent:: (player controlled)

Uses bandit model and the other model with brown Tshirt and camo pants (and any other good bandit like model, maybe the default player model we use now too). Spawn randomly on the coast (like we do now).

Civilian:: (player controlled)

Uses the civilian models. Spawn randomly on the coast (like we do now).

Blufor:: (A.I. controlled)

U.N. or U.S. soldiers. They protect a base/camp on the small island on the coast "Otmel", in the "Bay Zelenaya" (or somewhere else, I chose that location because you can walk across waist deep water to the main land) and they patrol the area for Independent players (bandit snipers/campers). Also maybe have zombies spawn in the woods near the base, to make it harder for bandits and some Z's might be lured to the base by a player running for their life. This base will be a safe zone (sorta) for Civilian players. Players can socialize and form groups here. Blufor will shoot Civilian team killers in and around the base. Maybe a Blufor medic can heal you for some random items or trade him ammo for food (like 3 clips from the same ammo type for a can of food or soda, or what ever it may be). Have a crate in the Blufor base that any Civilian can use, But only you can see/take what you have put in it. The crate should be saved like the player, so every server has your stuff. Also, just maybe, the crate will keep what you have in it, when you die. Ofcourse the crate won't hold 100 items, maybe hold the same as a tent or backpack. If or when Independents (bandits) raid the base/camp, the crate will have random goodies in it for the bandits. If the crate (or walls/tower) get destroyed, maybe [toolbox + wood (+ scrap metal) = repair]. When all Blufor are dead in the base for 10 minutes or so, they won't respawn there, but be tranported by boat or heli back to the base.

Opfor:: (A.I. controlled)

Russian military. They protect the airfeilds and maybe a base or two, they also go on patrols around the island trying to stop the outbreak by killing every thing they see. When players kill the Opfor in the airfeild, they too won't respawn back there but instead, be tranported back by heli and/or cargo truck.

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I figured if bandits want to act like animals, they can stay in the wild :D and if you want to play with others you can meet them in blufor base.

[Kageru 18]

I hadn't realised player built bases would be negated by going to another server, walking forward X steps, coming back to the origin server and thus having effectively teleported through any barricade. It basically means that any "survivor base" has to exist in the same location on all servers.

Though you could still use found objects to re-inforce it, a value that could be shared between servers.

And yeah, as above, the base could easily be explained as being a camp setup by the military survivors. Having hostile encampments could be good fun too, like if you want to go an loot a military base you might find the military survivors there aren't interested in sharing.

[logan23 118]

To solve the issue with killing on site you could-

You want players to team up but how do you do that without just making it so players team up for numbers and still leads to teams killing other players.....You could sprinkle through the game skills one can learn that would make you valuable in a team.

The idea is if you have a team of players and then they come across another player, the team might need someone skilled with medicine to help with their sickness/cold. This lone player might have this skill. If they shoot him on sight then they will never get the benefits. If they talk to the player and they have a skill medicine or maybe they don't but the conversation could lead to the team of players either getting /asking for his help or just leaving him alone since there is a face/voice/text with the Character/player they see in their scope.

I really believe that DayZ will need some type of skill system which can grow from exploring the land and locations. This would create a need for players to ask questions before shooting. A player who shoots on sight will then only be hurting themselves.

All players start off as survivors but then they can discover book/info that will open that skill to them. Even giving a blood transfusion should up or promote the medicine skill.

This makes players each more valuable.

what do you think?

[Crosshair (DayZ) 0]

Adding onto the player built outposts, one could also have the players need to "help" the NPC guards. Find that nice sniper rifle? Perhaps it would be better used by lending it to the NPC guard so they aren't shooting zombies with a Makarov. Giving them food and whatnot will increase their effectiveness as well.

I was at first against the idea of NPC guards, but quickly realized that, as was said before, it compensates for the non-persistence of characters. Perhaps the number/effectiveness of NPC guards is determined by how many players are "in" that outpost. Have an outpost with 10 players in it? Well then your NPC guards will be much more effective than when everyone leaves at once to go out searching. It will allow such outposts to be raided if there is no coordination between players and everyone does leave at once.

Perhaps the NPC guards could be independent survivors that players need to recruit

Just throwing out ideas.

[jetlinerx 2]

In any case, co-op needs to be pushed more. The CoD PVP is ridiculous now.

*Dont worry, I am already expecting the carebear comments from you children. :)*