fast and highly observant zombies are bad for the game

[Antiklimax 2]

Let me start this post off by saying, that i am fully aware of the fact that DayZ is in Alpha.

And yes, i know the current behaviour of the zombies will not be the same in the finished product.

 

BUT this is a thing that annoyed me in DayZ-Mod as well and i think i spotted some indicators in DayZ Standalone, which make me think Bohemia is taking a similar approach for the Standalone-Version like they did with the mod:

 

An encounter with a zombie usually follows the following scheme:

 

1. Zombie tracks you from a far distance, starts following you with insane speed (Same speed as player)

2. You run away from him, keeping the exact same distance, until you find some corner you can run around and hide/sneak away

3. While doing so, you trigger another zombie.... and so it goes on until you succeed in leaving them behind

 

The problem i have with this, is that it is ALWAYS the exact same thing. It becomes routine very quickly and soon after that it becomes simply annoying (at least to me).

More than that, because it happens so OFTEN, the zombies completely loose their menacing nature. Being chased by a zombie is a common, predictable and totally boring thing.

One of the essential mistake here is in my opinion, that zombies and humans run the exact same speed. This provocates boring chases. Because noone is catching up or getting away. The "run-around-corner-and-switch -to-silence"-mode is the only possible option. The other problem is the fact, that these zombies are very observant. They can see you from a far distance, hear you from a far distance. I know this is meant to make the game "hard", but it does the opposite. Because Zombie-chases are triggered so often, they cant be that dangerous.

Again, this is BORING and ANNOYING.

 

What i would do different:

1. Drastically(!) decrease the sensibility of the zombies

2. Decrease most of them in speed, but put in a few who are FASTER than Player Characters

3. IF a zombie is triggered, he shouts out and all zombies in a big radius start walking towards his position

 

In my opinion, this would increase the fun of the game exponentially. Yes, it would be a rare event to trigger a zombie, but IF one is triggered, fucking hell unleashes upon you in an unpredictable way.

[creature 1189]

The problem with "zombies" is that you can never make everyone happy.

 

I think they should be the last thing you want to encounter in the game. More of a threat than players in every aspect.

[Antiklimax 2]

[...]

 

I think they should be the last thing you want to encounter in the game. More of a threat than players in every aspect.

 

Totally agree with this. But i dont see the Zombies as "threatening" atm (in the mod and the game), i simply see them as annoying. 

[inexorable 26]

Zombies should definitely be a bigger issue in SA than in the mod, once you have a good stuff, zombies are not even annoying anymore, you are running in a city, get inside a building, and all the zombies stays inside

They should be dangerous, so much that you can't run in a city, you should walk very slowly, hide behind wall, crawl, i mean you should act like you acted during the first hours playing the mod

 

If zombies are a big threat, players won't shoot eachother like they do right now

Edited December 22, 2013 by Inexorable

[Mos1ey 6301]

Honestly I see the zombies being buffed a lot as game development continues. They're currently very easy to avoid and even easier to kill, especially if you're in a group.

[Antiklimax 2]

Honestly I see the zombies being buffed a lot as game development continues. They're currently very easy to avoid and even easier to kill, especially if you're in a group.

 

The thing is:

 

In my opinion making the zombies "hard" by giving them eagle-eyes and dog-ears is the wrong way.

 

They should be a thread through mass and durability...

[Chris529 380]

Zombies should definitely be a bigger issue in SA than in the mod, once you have a good stuff, zombies are not even annoying anymore, you are running in a city, get inside a building, and all the zombies stays inside

They should be dangerous, so much that you can't run in a city, you should walk very slowly, hide behind wall, crawl, i mean you should act like you acted during the first hours playing the mod

 

If zombies are a big threat, players won't shoot eachother like they do right now

I personally don't see the correlation between the game being harder and players being nice to one another.

 

The thing is:

 

In my opinion making the zombies "hard" by giving them eagle-eyes and dog-ears is the wrong way.

 

They should be a thread through mass and durability...

I think it depends on the type of zombie, typically either alive or dead. DayZ is using the infected/living type, so they should be as fast as ordinary people and have similar sensory capabilities. The problem with the slower ones is you can just run away and they aren't too threatening. Also bear in mind it would be very bad performance wise to have hordes of zombies instead of a few quick ones here and there.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chris529

[Mos1ey 6301]

The thing is:

 

In my opinion making the zombies "hard" by giving them eagle-eyes and dog-ears is the wrong way.

 

They should be a thread through mass and durability...

 

But they have neither. :S

 

You can pretty much walk up to them and smack them in the face with an axe before they react nine times out of ten.

 

I personally don't see the correlation between the game being harder and players being nice to one another.

 

Did you ever play the DayZ+ mod? Zombies were buffed massively and you'd tend to find a lot of players that were looking to team up to avoid becoming dinner.

 

There were a lot of bandits too of course, but there was a much more even spread.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Mos1ey

[inexorable 26]

The thing is:

 

In my opinion making the zombies "hard" by giving them eagle-eyes and dog-ears is the wrong way.

 

They should be a thread through mass and durability...

 

We either make them more dangerous, or we drastically increase their number

 

i would prefer the second choice, but that can cause some performances problem 

[Antiklimax 2]

I personally don't see the correlation between the game being harder and players being nice to one another.

 

A common enemy is a strong thing...

 

 

 

 

But they have neither. :S

 

You can pretty much walk up to them and smack them in the face with an axe before they react nine times out of ten.

 

 

 

In DayZ-Mod they do have both, imo

 

And today i had some zombies in DayZstandalone with incredible eyesight again.... Hence this thread

Edited December 22, 2013 by Antiklimax

[inexorable 26]

I personally don't see the correlation between the game being harder and players being nice to one another.

 

Zombies are easy to dodge, they are not even a threat to you, you are bored, what do you do ?

you kill players

 

players need a common ennemy, else they'll fight eachother for fun

[Navillus 31]

To the OP, I don't necessarily agree with what you have to say but your points are pretty valid. In response to your 3 suggestions:

 

1. I feel like zombie "sensibility" is alright for now, maybe some tweaking is needed as time goes on, but I dont view them as overly smart or overly stupid.

 

2. I really like your idea of having a variation of zombies, each with different speed.

 

3. Again, this is a really good idea, when a zombie sees another zombie going crazy, they become alerted to the situation.

 

 

I think it's pretty obvious that zombies are an ongoing development, and I believe rocket has mentioned this several times. When more zombies are added to the map things will start being different. I believe they do need to be very dangerous to make the game fun, but definately need some variation to avoid that monotonous routine of getting away.

[Ep1cNiki 3]

I think Zombies should be a lot harder too kill like 10 shots from a m4 or so and they should also do more damage.

This would make the game a much more challenging  and in order fun experience, at least in my opinion.

[brinxter 4]

The zombies are currently acting extremely erratic.

Either completely oblivious (esp when approached from behind) or agro from extreme distances.

 

Mostly when you sneak up on one from behind, and axe them, every zombie (that has its facing towards the one that was killed, doesnt matter if theres building between them) comes after the player.

I've also noticed that zombies tend to face the player, WAY before initiating agro, ive seen multiple zombies (from a fair distance) pivot towards me, and eventually coming towards me, but again, not always.

 

The way i'd love to see them end up, is 70-80% of them dumb, weak zombies, who go in hordes, and in semi good numbers.

Then fill the rest with either slow, tanky zombies, and some high speed, fairly weak, but silent ones.

 

Variation is what i would like to see most.

[eleventhavenue 204]

It seems like right now, Zombies can spot players at distances of over seceral hundred meters, but they have no sense of hearing. Basically, if you get in view of their laser-eyes, they aggro but not if you walk up behind them.

 

Alpher is alpher, I guess.

[Chris529 380]

Zombies are easy to dodge, they are not even a threat to you, you are bored, what do you do ?

you kill players

 

players need a common ennemy, else they'll fight eachother for fun

The idea is the zombies are too tough to fight alone, so you group up to make it easier, right?. So you find some people to stick together with, now the zombies are no match for you and your group. They are easy, it gets boring, then what? Buffing the zombies might get people to work together, but then it's not individuals roaming around bored of easy zombies, it's groups of people instead.

 

This could be better though; it would be awesome to have completely player run factions fighting each other, making alliances and forming huge groups etc. Thanks to clothing they could make a uniform for their group, paint vehicles, the sky is the limit here.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chris529

[daze23 549]

they do see you from very far away. but my experience has been that they're not as fast as they were in the mod. they're still pretty easy to lose, although them walking through fences and walls can make it tricky

 

if you see one coming at you from pretty far away, and immediately run in the opposite direction, chances are you'll lose it before it gets close to you

[Noctiluxx 48]

As of last night.. I've noticed a slight increase in Zombie count and awareness on several servers.  It was awesome, and a good struggle to have as a new character.

[Psyl3nt 125]

I've always thought the zombies should be slow, idiot things, but tough and persistent. Basically they shouldn't really be much of a danger unless they are in groups or you get cornered. 

 

The zombies in dayz have always been very fast and athletic, it's almost like they got more physically fit after they died and began rotting. 

 

(see Dead nation mod for arma III for what I think are 'good' zombies, seems a bit more real if they're larger in numbers but dumb and slow.) 

[daze23 549]

I've always thought the zombies should be slow, idiot things, but tough and persistent. Basically they shouldn't really be much of a danger unless they are in groups or you get cornered. 

 

The zombies in dayz have always been very fast and athletic, it's almost like they got more physically fit after they died and began rotting. 

 

(see Dead nation mod for arma III for what I think are 'good' zombies, seems a bit more real if they're larger in numbers but dumb and slow.) 

I'll pull out some old rhetoric and point out that they're "infected" and not "zombies"

 

that may be semantics, but rocket has said he's not going for those kind of 'slow persistent zombies'. I think he usually refers to 28 Days Later

[EndEffeKt 87]

The development of the Zeds is clearly a key part in the further evolution of this game. At the moment they are buggy and run through walls. This needs fixing and is no topic for a discussion.

 

What I noted very positive are two things that were a main concern for me in the mod:

 

1. Zombies dont run like Usain Bolt and dont twitch like a LSD-Junkie. This makes me able to actually shoot zombies with steady and aimed shots. In the mod it was nearly impossible to get a clear shot on one of those glitching basterds. That leads in the end to a better atmosphere and to the initiative to finally kill zeds instead of only avoiding them. I as a friendly survivor like the idea that I can now properly use my gun on the real enemy.

 

2. Zombies do not respawn the moment they drop to the ground. Not only were you unable to really have fun shooting running Zeds in the mod, it was absolutely irrelevant nonsence on top of it, because they just respawned seconds later and maybe behind your back to eat your brain! Now it feels like my hunting of Zeds has an actual impact on the game, because I can clear buildings, villages or maybe whole cities of them (for a while at least). I think this is a fact that is overlooked much, but is so important to the atmosphere.

 

I think that authenticity and realistic feeling of the Zeds is the most important goal at the moment. Removing the movement bugs and designing them in a way that they feel authentic. The balancing part is another task that has to be tackled afterwards. Zombies are easy at the moment, let them be until they work properly. For the difficulty I personally would focus on the numbers rather than the durability or the speed. I think people want to fight zombies if they have the right equipment to do so, not only run from them all the time, not because of fear but of annoyance (is that a word actually?).  If I am a fresh survivor and I have finally managed to get a baseball bat it should suffice to defend myself vs. a single zombie, or the weapons have no point at all. So I think approaches that add unrealistic amonthes of durability to Zeds will lead to more problems than they solve. Same with the good old sprinter-zeds. It just kills immersion and athmosphere if I am running with a zombie behind me for miles. If I am running cos i tend to get surrounded by a horde, thats something completely different.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, maybe someone bothers to read it.

 

[Psyl3nt 125]

That's going to be very hard to do, hope he can. 

 

The zombies movement has always been glitchy because of the speed and tracking ability they have. 

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see if they can pull it off. 

 

I'm not against them being the 'other' kind of zombie / infected, but I like it to 'fit'. 

[Hosty 647]

Well no

 

In my opinion either have fast and dangerous zombies 

 

Or have slow but many, many more zombies.

[franjozubcic 18]

Let me start this post off by saying, that i am fully aware of the fact that DayZ is in Alpha.

And yes, i know the current behaviour of the zombies will not be the same in the finished product.

 

BUT this is a thing that annoyed me in DayZ-Mod as well and i think i spotted some indicators in DayZ Standalone, which make me think Bohemia is taking a similar approach for the Standalone-Version like they did with the mod:

 

An encounter with a zombie usually follows the following scheme:

 

1. Zombie tracks you from a far distance, starts following you with insane speed (Same speed as player)

2. You run away from him, keeping the exact same distance, until you find some corner you can run around and hide/sneak away

3. While doing so, you trigger another zombie.... and so it goes on until you succeed in leaving them behind

 

The problem i have with this, is that it is ALWAYS the exact same thing. It becomes routine very quickly and soon after that it becomes simply annoying (at least to me).

More than that, because it happens so OFTEN, the zombies completely loose their menacing nature. Being chased by a zombie is a common, predictable and totally boring thing.

One of the essential mistake here is in my opinion, that zombies and humans run the exact same speed. This provocates boring chases. Because noone is catching up or getting away. The "run-around-corner-and-switch -to-silence"-mode is the only possible option. The other problem is the fact, that these zombies are very observant. They can see you from a far distance, hear you from a far distance. I know this is meant to make the game "hard", but it does the opposite. Because Zombie-chases are triggered so often, they cant be that dangerous.

Again, this is BORING and ANNOYING.

 

What i would do different:

1. Drastically(!) decrease the sensibility of the zombies

2. Decrease most of them in speed, but put in a few who are FASTER than Player Characters

3. IF a zombie is triggered, he shouts out and all zombies in a big radius start walking towards his position

 

In my opinion, this would increase the fun of the game exponentially. Yes, it would be a rare event to trigger a zombie, but IF one is triggered, fucking hell unleashes upon you in an unpredictable way.

Nice idea btw 

[[email protected] 55]

They should be shuffling about when they're unprovoked, but once they get a hint of you in the area they'll come storming for ya. They should definately have varying speeds though, some faster than a player sprinting.