People spawning anywhere destroys tactical play

[betabob 1]

Ok, first things first, yes I KNOW ITS AN ALPHA. Just thought I'd clear that up before flame wars begin.

I've only been playing since 1.7.1 when someone told me about the mod and I dusted of ARMA2&OA, so far love the concept but there are a few things that I just can't stand. The most pressing is the ability for us to spawn anywhere.

Why I hate it:

1. Folk use the mechanic to spawn in well known premium loot spots, grab the loot and leave the server to do it again elsewhere... mildly annoying

2. Folk use it to leave servers, flank round in another server, rejoin original and kill. Mildly annoying, congrats on the effort of any who do this!

3. Most important will be illustrated with an example - Myself and a mate spend AGES scouting a town with binoculars, sneaking in with a crossbow to silently take out any zeds we have to. We slowly loot the small town of Mogilevka without making a damned sound or alerting a single zed. Then as we head into a small shed like thing I ask my mate to watch the entrance while i check some loot and suddenly we both die instantly, without a sound. Why? because someone else spawned in behind me in the little shed and (presumably out of surprise at us being there) shoots... with his bloody rocket launcher! I was only able to piece it together because although I heard nothing my mate who was slightly further away heard the bang and I hauled @ss for 10mins back to the spot to find that the guy had in fact killed himself with the shot as well.

This happens all the time, especially in places like the church or station in electro, or the control tower on balota... you know the places.

Cant we force a no spawn area around each town so folk still "get there", but have to actually enter the towns each time they enter a server.

TLDR: Spawning inside towns/cities is a broken mechanic, needs a fix

[SASQUATCH_OZ 0]

Well, at least the guy killed himself in the process...

But I do agree with what you are saying, player spawning needs to be worked on. It is easily exploitable.

[LambsParade 0]

I would suggest getting used to it for now. Its bound to never stop happening. Its bad luck that that happened to you but "shit happens". In a game where you always come back where you quit it will never stop happening.

If anything it gets you more hours out of mod and ifor the people who bought ARMA for dayz then then are getting your moneys worth.

In a game like this it will always happen :)

Every game will always have certain problems and this is one of them.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I hate to be melodramatic, but honestly this is rocket's biggest obstacle in the design of this game I believe. It's an incredible design conundrum because you don't want to impede a player's progress getting into the game as efficiently as possible, nor do you want to upset the integrity of their "most recent state," but at the same time the possibility that at any moment, anywhere, a player could just appear from the ether and start firing - all elements of tactics, planning and strategy suddenly come up against an inevitable statistical wall.

Not every time, maybe not even often - but some percentage of your deaths will be directly attributed to someone logging in at the wrong time. No matter how careful you are, no matter how far you plan ahead, no matter how much you strategize, one person logging in with a frag grenade in their hand could take out you, your friends and a vehicle with the click of a mouse.

But what can you do? Saying "Oh you can't login right now someone's near that spot" is prohibitive - who knows when they're going to move, and you could keep someone offline indefinitely if you knew where they logged out. You can't just randomly teleport people around the map.

It's like an immovable object and an unstoppable force. I don't see a really clear way forward. In a game with permanent death and potentially hundreds of hours on the line, it's going to get very interesting when people start losing their livelihoods to the login rogue more and more often.

I'm optimistic that rocket can find a solution, but he's got his work cut out for him that's for sure.

[LambsParade 0]

I hate to be melodramatic' date=' but honestly this is rocket's biggest obstacle in the design of this game I believe. It's an incredible design conundrum because you don't want to impede a player's progress getting into the game as efficiently as possible, nor do you want to upset the integrity of their "most recent state," but at the same time the possibility that at any moment, anywhere, a player could just appear from the ether and start firing - all elements of tactics, planning and strategy suddenly come up against an inevitable statistical wall.

Not every time, maybe not even often - but some percentage of your deaths will be directly attributed to someone logging in at the wrong time. No matter how careful you are, no matter how far you plan ahead, no matter how much you strategize, one person logging in with a frag grenade in their hand could take out you, your friends and a vehicle with the click of a mouse.

But what can you do? Saying "Oh you can't login right now someone's near that spot" is prohibitive - who knows when they're going to move, and you could keep someone offline indefinitely if you knew where they logged out. You can't just randomly teleport people around the map.

It's like an immovable object and an unstoppable force. I don't see a really clear way forward. In a game with permanent death and potentially hundreds of hours on the line, it's going to get [i']very interesting when people start losing their livelihoods to the login rogue more and more often.

I'm optimistic that rocket can find a solution, but he's got his work cut out for him that's for sure.

Great post

[ReploidGodX 0]

It's like an immovable object and an unstoppable force.

I smell a D&D reference in here. anyone?

[daze23 549]

I can't think of a solution...

it could give you a warning: "new player spawning in vicinity". but then the players there would have the advantage

you could spawn with some sort of thing where you can't shoot or be shot for xx seconds. but then they'd just wait for it to wear off, and the shooting would start

the only thing I can think of is it would spawn you close to where you logged-off, but not near players

[septuscap 42]

But what can you do? Saying "Oh you can't login right now someone's near that spot" is prohibitive - who knows when they're going to move' date=' and you could keep someone offline indefinitely if you knew where they logged out. You can't just randomly teleport people around the map.

[/quote']

You can't keep them offline indefinitely b/c they can just use a different server to move. That said, still not sure that's the cleanest solution, but it is definitely viable.

[Soldier of Failure 14]

I hate it when this happens. Whenever I spawn in and see someone, unless they are looking right at me and about to fire I just disconnect and try a different sever. It getting fixed would make me cry tears of solid joy.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

the only thing I can think of is it would spawn you close to where you logged-off' date=' but not near players

[/quote']

Some kind of "spawncasting" system that finds a spawn point as near as possible to your most recent logout, but not within 50m of an existing player?

It's possible, but it would require a marvel. You would have to account for changes in elevation, obstacles, buildings, existing zombies, water, etc.

Although it does create the rather interesting possibility of creating a spawn "buffer zone" by moving as a large, evenly distributed group.

Anyway, like I said. No easy task.

[daze23 549]

the only thing I can think of is it would spawn you close to where you logged-off' date=' but not near players

[/quote']

Some kind of "spawncasting" system that finds a spawn point as near as possible to your most recent logout, but not within 50m of an existing player?

It's possible, but it would require a marvel. You would have to account for changes in elevation, obstacles, buildings, existing zombies, water, etc.

Although it does create the rather interesting possibility of creating a spawn "buffer zone" by moving as a large, evenly distributed group.

Anyway, like I said. No easy task.

yeah I thought about that. I think the easiest thing would be a bunch of pre-determined 'safe' spawn points. but you would need A LOT of them

like you said, no easy task

[vinla 0]

the only thing I can think of is it would spawn you close to where you logged-off' date=' but not near players

[/quote']

Some kind of "spawncasting" system that finds a spawn point as near as possible to your most recent logout, but not within 50m of an existing player?

It's possible, but it would require a marvel. You would have to account for changes in elevation, obstacles, buildings, existing zombies, water, etc.

Although it does create the rather interesting possibility of creating a spawn "buffer zone" by moving as a large, evenly distributed group.

Anyway, like I said. No easy task.

That's the spirit :) Lets not forget that we've all have a unique opportunity to help in the development of this game. Whenever there's a problem there's a solution. I think creating spawn areas is not a bad suggestion. If you log out the next time you log in you spawn in the nearest spawn area to your last location. These areas could be kept free of zeds.

In addition to that you use something like pitching tents to allow you to define your own spawn point. Obviously there are a few other issues with that system that would need working out.

[Sephka (DayZ) 51]

My two friends and I had been scoping out the Balota airfield for a bit. Figured no one was there, so we headed for the control tower. Someone had barricaded the entrance like so many people seem to like doing lately, so we had to climb the ladder to get in. My friend and I head up, while the third stays down to keep watch. We go in, look around, don't really find much. I leave and go back down the ladder while my buddy is still in the tower.

As he's coming up the stairs he sees some guy looking at him, assumes it's the guy who was keeping watch at the bottom of the ladder and ignores him. Gets popped in the face and starts wondering why his friend shot him. Turns out some dude spawned inside at the top, and just shot him dead.

I go back up to try to avenge him and keep his body clear. I see the guy shooting out the floor entrance at zombies coming in. I start firing shots at him, then I suddenly die. Another person, probably his buddy, spawned in behind me and shot me in the back. Nothing I could have done about is, besides not going back up in the first place.

It's annoying, I hope Rocket has something in mind for this, or finds a solution he likes, if there even is one. I've seen it posted several times, I like the idea of making some kind of noise when you log in, if that's at all possible. Nothing super loud, but something noticeable. Maybe make it so zombies can't be aggro'd by it?

[jstarkreborn 29]

Well, I was in cherno's grocery store. I was looting when I heard shots near by. I went to the corner in the back room and waited for somebody to come in. I waited about 5 minutes and right when i was about to leave, someone spawns right in front of me. He didn't see me. I thought "Wow server jumper?" and fired 5 shots into him. He had a lee enfield, food/drinks, hunting knife, and a map. I got lucky and was able to either A) Teach him a lesson, or B) Atleast made him start over.

[Big Boss (DayZ) 23]

My two friends and I had been scoping out the Balota airfield for a bit. Figured no one was there' date=' so we headed for the control tower. Someone had barricaded the entrance like so many people seem to like doing lately, so we had to climb the ladder to get in. My friend and I head up, while the third stays down to keep watch. We go in, look around, don't really find much. I leave and go back down the ladder while my buddy is still in the tower.

As he's coming up the stairs he sees some guy looking at him, assumes it's the guy who was keeping watch at the bottom of the ladder and ignores him. Gets popped in the face and starts wondering why his friend shot him. Turns out some dude spawned inside at the top, and just shot him dead.

I go back up to try to avenge him and keep his body clear. I see the guy shooting out the floor entrance at zombies coming in. I start firing shots at him, then I suddenly die. Another person, probably his buddy, spawned in behind me and shot me in the back. Nothing I could have done about is, besides not going back up in the first place.

It's annoying, I hope Rocket has something in mind for this, or finds a solution he likes, if there even is one. I've seen it posted several times, I like the idea of making some kind of noise when you log in, if that's at all possible. Nothing super loud, but something noticeable. Maybe make it so zombies can't be aggro'd by it?

[/quote']

Not bad, I personally would like to see the high risk areas and towns marked as a zone that a player cannot log in / log out at. It would give a mission feel to conducting raids on the air fields and cities. On the other hand, the server dumps, or the internet dies, or some idiot exploits there would have to be a large number of random points to dump said players. How ever it gets done, it causes other issues but improves overall. You just can't win with people though haha.

[numbphase 0]

Cant we force a no spawn area around each town so folk still "get there"' date=' but have to actually enter the towns each time they enter a server.

[/quote']

This is a great idea, I wonder if it's possible to implement? You could apply it to airfields too.

[Tempered Saint 1]

I think the best solution is to do nothing. The cure would be worse than the disease.

Players need to be aware of the dangers and stay alert. No matter how well you've scoped out a situation, the unexpected can happen, even in real life. Pick remote places to log out. Keep your head on a swivel in game. There is no safe place in a zombie apocalypse, only less dangerous places.

---

Cant we force a no spawn area around each town so folk still "get there"' date=' but have to actually enter the towns each time they enter a server.

[/quote']

This is a great idea, I wonder if it's possible to implement? You could apply it to airfields too.

What will happen with this idea, is that people will log in near each other on the outskirts of the city. So you would still end up with the same problem, only minus the loot spawn camping.

[srvrsyde 9]

this isn't a tactical shooter

[vinla 0]

this isn't a tactical shooter

No it's much more difficult than that, and hence much more important that your preparations count.

[flyingmonkey (DayZ) 0]

A spawn buffer around players or cities will be a disadvantage to those trying to log in, you are only switching the boot to the other foot.

People could log out hiding in a good spot on a roof or in some bushes, and end up spawning back in the middle of an open field. Instead, these guys have to get their bearings at the same time as finding a good place to hide as soon as they spawn.

Not sure what the best solution would be.

[violently happy 0]

How about you just can't log out anywhere there are zombies that can spawn. be really easy to just say "You cannot log out here to many infected near by" Why try to move players when they log in? instead deny them the ability to log out there.

You can go further by forcing the player to have to kill all infected in that area in order to log out. Once we have even more barricading options it would be easy to allow them to be used to turn a house into a safe zone. This also would be a warning sign to all others who find that place, because someone could log in behind them as they check the place out.

[BlackAlpha 12]

A spawn buffer around players or cities will be a disadvantage to those trying to log in' date=' you are only switching the boot to the other foot.

People could log out hiding in a good spot on a roof or in some bushes, and end up spawning back in the middle of an open field. Instead, these guys have to get their bearings at the same time as finding a good place to hide as soon as they spawn.

Not sure what the best solution would be.

[/quote']

I don't see that as a problem because there's a very easy solution. If you don't want to be moved to a random spawn point outside of town, then you have to log off in a safe area, like inside a forest.

Basically, you define a zone on top of all towns. People who spawn inside such a zone will be moved randomly to the outskirts of the zone. Do an additional check that doesn't allow you to spawn close to players. Problem solved?

Some kind of "spawncasting" system that finds a spawn point as near as possible to your most recent logout' date=' but not within 50m of an existing player?

It's possible, but it would require a marvel. You would have to account for changes in elevation, obstacles, buildings, existing zombies, water, etc.

Although it does create the rather interesting possibility of creating a spawn "buffer zone" by moving as a large, evenly distributed group.

Anyway, like I said. No easy task.

[/quote']

ArmA2 comes with built-in scripts that do those kind of things for you. It's not that hard. If Rocket can create a mod such as DayZ, then that stuff should not be a problem at all.

[flyingmonkey (DayZ) 0]

Spawning prone if you log out standing wouldn't hurt either - but only if your spawn has been moved.

[WeTheFallen 4]

players logging in to buldings in towns is the major cuase of this, perhaps an automatic unconscious wake up time (1min) while in buildings can help avoid this. this would motivate players to have to hide themselves in the wilderness or much better in loot camps to avoid waking up dead.

Down the line maybe to counter innocent spawn killing perhaps a mechanic for seeing where youre about to log in could be used.(which would then have to have a restriction because it too would be abused.

[sneed 1]

I like where this is going, sounds like a pretty good fix to me. Would really tamp down on egregious use of server hop farming as well. However, it could be exploited a bit - if a person is done looting a city, he could log out and log back into the same server and presto! he is outside the city limits. I don't think that would be as bad as the current exploits however.