I'm of the Opinion that KoS will be shorted sight and wasteful....

[psylence 6]

You know what's funny? These threads full of people expressing their strong opinion on KOS / not KOS... That's the player interaction!

 

It's not going to change! This is what makes the game fun! There are "good" guys, "bad" guys, and zombies.  And to all the whiners crying about being "KOS"... you're all about survival then right? LEARN TO AVOID PEOPLE.  If you don't like getting killed, and you don't like killing other players, before you charge into the firehouse, maybe scope it out for a bit? Lay down and wait to see if someone runs up the tower, if in 3 mins they don't, there's probably no one in there.

 

I understand how some people would be upset that it's probably not completely realistic that there a ton of psychos trying to kill everyone in an apocalypse.  No, most people would just try to save their own skin and avoid the situation because they have their real life on the line. But I swear it sounds like some of these people need to just go buy a single player zombie game!

[T-Dawg 6]

if 50% of the population in game is friendly... hell, even 98%, I would rather kill you than fall victim to the 2% that will kill me.  Simple as that.

And this is how the KoS killfest started and now you die even more as a result of it. Consequences...

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

In the game, yes. In real life you shoot someone dead just because you saw them... remember Kill On Sight is what we are talking about... you just killed the pharmacist who knows the code to get into a locked building full of antibiotics. Whoops... now you have an upper respiratory infection slowly killing you.... 

 

I know nothing like that is in the game but the game is supposed to eventually get around to being a simulation, not just a death match. Other people have hidden values and the way you find them out is by not... remember what we are talking about... killing them the moment you see them. 

 

 

Wait, I thought I was playing a video game..?  You mean to say i'm supposed to play this game like real life?

 

The ridiculousness of your statement astounds me.  No video game will ever be like real life.  Ever!  No matter how realistic it becomes.  Why?  Because I can respawn in a video game and in real life I cannot.  There are a lot of things I wouldn't do in real life that I do in this game.  KoS is not something I would do in real life unless we at war.  Real life won't have zombies either, because well, living-dead is just something that makes for good movies and video games to make money.

 

For the sake of discussion, if we did have a zombie apocalypse my group found ourselves looking down on another group, we wouldn't just go in guns blazing because we can.  We would first ask ourselves if it is even worth while to risk our lives (real) to try and rob the group.  Nothing says we have to kill them.  But when you're faced with an unknown, anything can happen.  Afterall, we cannot respawn if someone screws up.  That's not to say someone won't get shot if they're acting aggressively.  

 

But real life does not equal a video game.  No matter how you want to try to relate it, it just won't happen.  People get to do things in a video game that they can't do in real life, not because that's how they are as a person in real life, but because it's a video game.  If we were held accountable in real life to what we did in a video game, well, video games would be outlawed and the worlds population would be X% smaller due to the gamers being put to death via capital punishment.

 

I get that we form groups outside the game and then hop on and consider everyone else "them" and don't want "them" to hurt "us". But not everyone has a ready made group and while I am not a social person in the least I believe you might find some fun out of actually getting to know some of the people out there instead of just looking at them as an obstacle or victim. Unfortunately that rarely happens when the majority of the population simply blast away upon contact with anyone. At that point extending a greeting is often the last thing you want to do. 

It's a downward spiral though. I'm not asking you all to stop shooting people. I'm asking you to maybe stop a moment and think about if the game is better where the assumption is that you just shoot everyone or better when maybe, just maybe those other people might not shoot back and so now you might want to actually interact with them. 

 

 

So then... because someone doesn't have a ready made group it is suddenly NOT that persons fault that he did not survive against a group that outnumbered him?  What are you trying to say?  Being prepared in all aspects is part of becoming a better gamer.  It is not hard to find people to play the game with.  This baffles me.

 

People blast away at other people because of the threat they represent, etc.  There is more than one way to make friends, and if doing so in game is so dangerous, then do it through other means.  Forums, other guilds, generally a clan that is hosting a guild will have a TS server set up.  You can hop on with them and become friends and run in their group.  Unless you think using TS is cheating.

 

For me there is no downward spiral.  I play the game how I want with my friends.  If I want to go stalk someone running through the hills, i'm going to go stalk them.  That is the nature of the sandbox.  I WANT the PvP in this game because of the PvA nature of the game.  There are so many variables to account for that it makes it challenging.  So for MY game, I am not looking to talk to that other person.

 

In real life it is rare when a fight happens and one person/side walks away unharmed. Action movies don't follow this reality. ;) So it is in everyone's best interest to avoid a fight in most of those situations. The game doesn't have systems that make that a reality although it is getting better. I can tell you the guys who killed me walked away with some pretty damaged gear and blood they won't be getting back for a good long while. Engagement wasn't their best option. 

The game really isn't as much fun when EVERY encounter is a firefight. It actually get more tense when it isn't because you never know when it could turn into that. Instead it is, "Oh, there is a player. Yep he is shooting. There... shot him. *yawn*." 

 

 

You are correct that in "real life" fights don't happen much.  Why?  Because the consequences are actually consequences.  I die, i'm dead.  No respawn.  So it's in everyone's best interest to actually look at things from all angles and determine if fighting is to you (or your groups) advantage.

 

It may come as a shock to you, but not every fight in this video game is with the intention to loot gear.  At that point it doesn't matter if your gear became damaged or not.  If it is about gear, it's going to become just another challenge to take you out without damaging your gear.  Shot to the head with a sniper rifle would do wonders me thinks.

 

MY GAME is actually VERY fun when all my encounters are fights.  Win OR lose it is the challenge of the fight that I enjoy.  Zombies are just part of the environment I have to worry about.  Players are the real challenge to survival in this game.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

And this is how the KoS killfest started and now you die even more as a result of it. Consequences...

^^^this^^^...

 

thats how the snowball started and its been downhill picking up speed ever since.

 

the snowball picked up so much speed it jumped clear across from the mod to the SA, like it were nothing.

[T-Dawg 6]

^^^this^^^...

 

thats how the snowball started and its been downhill picking up speed ever since.

 

the snowball picked up so much speed it jumped clear across from the mod to the SA, like it were nothing.

 

I think it actually started to get going when they removed the bandit skin. When there still was a bandit skin it was KoS on all bandits but you tried to be nice to the rest of the guys. Bandits had a harder time the rest so there was really a consequence to being a bandit. Now it is none except that everybody treats everybody else as a bandit.

[mercules 1290]

No, you're clearly, once again, bringing up a red herring to ignore the points I made. You are being intellectually dishonest. 

 

Please address the following points, for the third time, with regards to your argument about KOS attitude:

 

Kills can be logged with a pen.

Educate yourself on Maslow.

No respawns is a bad idea.

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, kills can be logged with a pen, good for you knowing how to count. However, this game doesn't do that for you automatically while literally hundreds of other games do. Think about that. This game wasn't built with kill count in mind. I think it is obvious that Kill Count is not part of this game's intent. So obvious in fact the comment didn't even merit a response. No really.

I am aware of Maslow. However... I am willing to bet that those with beans and water and a nice warm hoody, who have the gun for security... have moved past those needs onto the more enlightened ones. Ergo Maslow doesn't even come into KoS. Why? Because KILLING ON SIGHT has nothing to do with Maslow. I am NOT talking about securing your personal area, finding food and shelter. I am talking about the mentality of "Oh, player! BAM!" which is KOS. Not, "Oh, that guy has a bigger backpack which would allow me to carry more things. I might want to consider tracking him and killing him." that is not KOS. KOS is counter to Maslow's theories because you are not taking the best route to securing your needs. Instead you are shooting when you might not want to. I've defined KOS in several threads you are involved in already so you should have picked up on what I was talking about ONE of these times instead of accusing me of using a Red Herring. ;)

I'm not exactly sure why you brought up "no respawns" since I never mentioned it. I stated what would happen in RL. I stated there needs to be some sort of consequence to that behavoir or even better a reason to stay alive. You came up with that on your own... which again is why I didn't feel it needed a responce... well that in it falls readily into the Strawman since I didn't say anything of a sort and you kinda made it my argument all on your own, like all the above points.

There, I addressed your points that I never talked about to begin with and were part of your strawman so I never had to address in the first place.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Mercules

[mercules 1290]

Okay... We need to stop a moment. A bunch of you are arguing not about KOS but about killing. 


I will state it again...

"Killing On Sight" is not the same as killing. I am not saying people shouldn't kill each other.
 
Okay, do you get that yet? If not read it again. Yes, you should kill someone if you believe they are a threat to you. That is not KOS. You should consider killing someone if they have gear you want. That is not KOS. 


Killing On Sight is shooting for NO apparent reason. It is, "Shooting someone for the Lulz!" There are so many reasons to shoot someone in the game we do not need KOS. KOS is spotting a newspawn on the coast and just blasting away. KOS is camping a hill with a sniper rifle and just shooting people then never bothering to loot them or otherwise have a real reason to shoot them other than, "Uh, because?"

That is starting to happen in game. It leads to the point where we don't even bother pausing and thinking, "should I bother to shoot that guy or not?" The "I don't have any reason too." doesn't even become a thing because you just die from random shooting so now you just do it yourself. Now there is REALLY no reason to ever not shoot anyone since everyone randomly shoots any movement they see. 


I am not against killing in game. You are supposed to consider and actually kill other players in this game. Players are supposed to be a threat to others. However, I am totally against useless killing. Killing someone 850m away from you who is headed away from you. Why? Totaly moronic. Now you have likely altered other players you are in the area. But people do it.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Mercules

[kragz 156]

 

Yes, kills can be logged with a pen, good for you knowing how to count. However, this game doesn't do that for you automatically while literally hundreds of other games do. Think about that. This game wasn't built with kill count in mind. I think it is obvious that Kill Count is not part of this game's intent. So obvious in fact the comment didn't even merit a response. No really.

I am aware of Maslow. However... I am willing to bet that those with beans and water and a nice warm hoody, who have the gun for security... have moved past those needs onto the more enlightened ones. Ergo Maslow doesn't even come into KoS. Why? Because KILLING ON SIGHT has nothing to do with Maslow. I am NOT talking about securing your personal area, finding food and shelter. I am talking about the mentality of "Oh, player! BAM!" which is KOS. Not, "Oh, that guy has a bigger backpack which would allow me to carry more things. I might want to consider tracking him and killing him." that is not KOS. KOS is counter to Maslow's theories because you are not taking the best route to securing your needs. Instead you are shooting when you might not want to. I've defined KOS in several threads you are involved in already so you should have picked up on what I was talking about ONE of these times instead of accusing me of using a Red Herring. ;)

I'm not exactly sure why you brought up "no respawns" since I never mentioned it. I stated what would happen in RL. I stated there needs to be some sort of consequence to that behavoir or even better a reason to stay alive. You came up with that on your own... which again is why I didn't feel it needed a responce... well that in it falls readily into the Strawman since I didn't say anything of a sort and you kinda made it my argument all on your own, like all the above points.

There, I addressed your points that I never talked about to begin with and were part of your strawman so I never had to address in the first place.

No need to get so narky. How has this discussion upset you so much? The reason I brought up the pen was because you dismissed me to go play some other FPS because there's no kill log. I argued against that point, you concede and try to get offensive. No need for that! It's just a game after all! This game was built with SANDBOX in mind. That ALLOWS you to kill as many people as you want and log it with a pen if you will, or if you don't. Think about that. I've said it before, if you have such an issue with it then seriously this game might not be for you! 

 

You're missing the point on Maslow. Yes, you can kill on sight everybody you see and use PEOPLE as a resource. Another legitimate way of playing the game. MY point was, however, that without basic needs, shelter, water etc, morality and reason can often go out of the window, as well as one's sanity. This is a plausible role for what seems to be an insatiable need for role-playing on your part.

 

The red herring accusation came from your LIE about me using a strawman in order to avoid answering the difficult questions I asked. Nothing to do with KOS. Please don't pretend otherwise.

 

Here's the part where you were talking about respawns:

 

                   nti-social behaviour would probably be compounded by an apocalypse, but guess what, those guys will probably die off fairly quick and don't respawn at the coast and run to the firehall for a new gun. Oh,                   and 99% of the population isn't anti-social/psychotic so we could use a few less people choosing to play that role.

 

You take issue with the fact that people who KOS can respawn, but those, like yourself, that play 'House' in the woods, you have no issue with being able to respawn. You can't have the argument both ways, Pal.

 

You talked about all these things and flat-out deny them to fall-back on logical fallacy as a scapegoat. The way you're going on about them I do wonder if you've just recently learned of them, which would explain why you sent such a remedial link. A middle-aged man should know better!

[Noctiluxx 48]

As a player who as not yet Killed on Sight (let alone killed a player that I know of)  I LOVE the idea of KoS, not for me personally, but thats just my choice.  And you may choose to do the same, or maybe not.  Maybe you'll pretend to be friendly, but I could be doing the same.

 

Its the variety like this that makes the game what it is.. People are going to do what they think is best for them, no matter what.

 

 

I do think an interesting approach however would be to have anything that has been blood stained (gear and clothes from being shot) have an extra attraction to zombies.. So that way, go ahead, shoot me, but good luck getting away.

[AP_Norris 1018]

We need a forum labour team.

We can have an official base and a password only PM to certain people.

[mercules 1290]

No need to get so narky. How has this discussion upset you so much? The reason I brought up the pen was because you dismissed me to go play some other FPS because there's no kill log. I argued against that point, you concede and try to get offensive. No need for that! It's just a game after all! This game was built with SANDBOX in mind. That ALLOWS you to kill as many people as you want and log it with a pen if you will, or if you don't. Think about that. I've said it before, if you have such an issue with it then seriously this game might not be for you! 

 

You're missing the point on Maslow. Yes, you can kill on sight everybody you see and use PEOPLE as a resource. Another legitimate way of playing the game. MY point was, however, that without basic needs, shelter, water etc, morality and reason can often go out of the window, as well as one's sanity. This is a plausible role for what seems to be an insatiable need for role-playing on your part.

 

The red herring accusation came from your LIE about me using a strawman in order to avoid answering the difficult questions I asked. Nothing to do with KOS. Please don't pretend otherwise.

 

Here's the part where you were talking about respawns:

 

                   nti-social behaviour would probably be compounded by an apocalypse, but guess what, those guys will probably die off fairly quick and don't respawn at the coast and run to the firehall for a new gun. Oh,                   and 99% of the population isn't anti-social/psychotic so we could use a few less people choosing to play that role.

 

You take issue with the fact that people who KOS can respawn, but those, like yourself, that play 'House' in the woods, you have no issue with being able to respawn. You can't have the argument both ways, Pal.

 

You talked about all these things and flat-out deny them to fall-back on logical fallacy as a scapegoat. The way you're going on about them I do wonder if you've just recently learned of them, which would explain why you sent such a remedial link. A middle-aged man should know better!

 

I tutored Logics in college... in the 90s. 

You totally missed my point. Psychotics who kill people for no reason make up a microscopic portion of the population. Several studies have shown around 1% of the U.S. population to have ~tendandcies~ towards sociopathy. So even if we double that number of POSSIBLE psychotics we 1 in 50. On a 40 person server 39 people should not technically be using the excuse, "Well, I am just playing a Sociopath who has no empathy towards others and kills for fun." Less than 1% of the population are sociopaths. So your chance of "spawning in" as a non-sociopath one is over 99% but in DayZ we have it reversed. ;)

Edited December 19, 2013 by Mercules

[kragz 156]

I tutored Logics in college... in the 90s. 

You totally missed my point. Psychotics who kill people for no reason make up a microscopic portion of the population. Several studies have shown around 1% of the U.S. population to have ~tendandcies~ towards sociopathy. So even if we double that number of POSSIBLE psychotics we 1 in 50. On a 40 person server 39 people should not technically be using the excuse, "Well, I am just playing a Sociopath who has no empathy towards others and kills for fun." Less than 1% of the population are sociopaths. So your chance of "spawning in" as a non-sociopath one is over 99% but in DayZ we have it reversed. ;)

You're exaggerating the % of KOS in this game. You're still missing the point that this hypothetical post apocalyptic is likely to create people into 'monsters' who lie outside of that demographic.

Perhaps most importantly you're missing the point that this is a game more than it is a simulation. if the vast majority are by your own admission kos then that puts you in a tiny minority and the fact you object to that play style suggests this game is not for you. Perhaps try minecraft or the sims.

All you come across as is just one giant whine,

[mercules 1290]

You're exaggerating the % of KOS in this game. You're still missing the point that this hypothetical post apocalyptic is likely to create people into 'monsters' who lie outside of that demographic.

Perhaps most importantly you're missing the point that this is a game more than it is a simulation. if the vast majority are by your own admission kos then that puts you in a tiny minority and the fact you object to that play style suggests this game is not for you. Perhaps try minecraft or the sims.

All you come across as is just one giant whine,

 

 

No, apocalypses have come and gone and people didn't go extinct form all turning into sociopaths. That just doesn't happen. 

You are missing the point that every other game has exactly the KOS you are looking for and this is one of the few to offer some validity to some OTHER gameplay style. Imagine in Quake if I went, "Here I have some extra health so have some." That would do what in that game? "Hey man I'll trade you some armor for some shield?" 

This is exactly the game I want to play. I just don't understand why YOU want to play it too. I mean there is ARMA III which offers similar mechanics and all you do for the whole thing is shoot at people. Just saying.

[HammeredBarnacle 5]

These KOS discussions are fun.

 

The presence of KOS has never once bothered me. I don't personally engage in it, but I don't see the need to put down those who do. It's just a difference of playstyles in a sandbox game. Would be a boring place if we all liked to do the same thing.

[varick 3]

I think with everything said, if the game gives the player the ability to solve the issue themselves it will be a win.  I remember when I first started playing the mod.  I wanted to put together a group that could rescue and heal people in trouble.  Shortly after thinking that I came across an article on a game site about someone else who had done it.  Helicopter rescues and a "Dr." to heal the wounded.  I wish I could find it.  Any way, you need each side of the coin.

 

I think that some artificial solution to KOS would ruin the atmosphere of the game.  Face it you're going to get crazies in the apocolypse murdering anything that moves.  You're also going to get the heroes who will stand up to them.  Reminds me of how children in Fallout 3 were made to be invinicible.  They took away the players' ability to protect them from death.  Why even have them in the game then?  I don't want that to happen here.

 

Remember that DayZ is about making your own story.  If you neuter it off the bat, you limit that story.

 

I remember the first time I saw another player.  He was looking at me, and I had just picked up a gun. My heart was pounding.  So much so my finger twitched and my gun went off.  The other player dropped.  I felt horrible I had accidental killed the guy.  I was killed by zombies thereafter.  Buddy if you're out there, I'm truly sorry for taking you out.

 

So KOS can be crappy, but we just have to work with it.  You run into someone and in a split second you can make a friend or enemy.  You shouldn't be thinking of what the other person will do.  What will you do in that second?  Be friendly?  Then why did you shoot them?  Trust me we've all thought "I'm going to have to kill this guy."

 

At the end of the day it's a game.  You get people who have to shoot stuff.  You know those people who play coop games and when there are no baddies on the screen to shoot, they start shooting their friends?  They have to attack something.

 

This game is great and it's only going to get better!

Edited December 20, 2013 by Varick

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

No, apocalypses have come and gone

 

What the fuck are you talking about?

[-Gews- 7443]

What the fuck are you talking about?