Guns too Over powered at moment !

[Merrick362 (DayZ) 263]

I agree that the weapons should be unforgiving and if you're getting shot at, you're history.

You have to consider that if everything is a OHK, that places weapons with a variety of calibers on a relatively even playing field. Which is bad in my opinion. Certain rounds have different damage profiles, which should be recognized/simulated in-game.

That and if everything is a OHK, how will this accommodate for their medical system?

I'm of course speaking relatively now, as I don't think everything is a OHK in the standalone nor do I think that's what you're suggesting.

But, as others have demonstrated, it's not prudent to just dismiss all notions of "balance" or "tweaking". Realism/authenticity can be accommodated for or even enhanced by "balancing" or tweaking the system.

The lethality of the rounds are fantastic the way they are currently implemented. Where the differences between weapons will come into play would be with effective range, ballistics, precision (not accuracy - that's up to the shooter).

I.e. - an M4 and M16 fire the exact same round from the exact same mag. The M4 uses a shorter barrel which means the round escapes the muzzle sooner and has less time to accelerate. The shorter barrel also moves the center of gravity back which decreases controlablility and increases vertical recoil.

[Katana67 2907]

I think a better solution is actually more knockdown states and having bullets cause serious injury, shock, ect. Imagine hitting someone with a bullet to the chest. You can go on saying "one hit kill is realism" but reality would dictate otherwise. People are often shot in the torso and manage to stay conscious enough to live through the ordeal. If we want to maintain authenticity, a shot or two to the torso or leg should be an immediate knockdown. Headshots should be 1 hit kills. Implementing more animations and more knockdown states would mean it's not as simple as *bang* you're unconscious. If players fell down and were able to move and maybe even sometimes shoot while incapacitated, we would see far more balanced combat scenarios. It doesn't subtract from realism, it actually enhances it. I've seen film of police officers and soldiers who are shot and in fact manage to stay conscious and make it to safety. Adding more variables to combat naturally balances the combat, because each variable has it's own implications.

 

Imagine you see a guy in a house, and you shoot him in the chest with your rifle. Dude falls down immediately, so you assume he's dead. As you enter the house however, you find him sitting in the corner with his pistol square in your face. Blam. You're dead. That is balance. It means that people have a chance, just based on the odds of some variable like consciousness changing the scenario. Maybe certain wounds (like damage to vital organs) would result in eventual, slow death. Maybe we could see some even more realistic features like surgery and infection control. There are many possibilities. But as Katana said, it means the damage model has to be revised monumentally.

 

I'm picturing a system that would simulate each organ and it's effect on your blood level and other status modifiers. Each "organ" (basically a hitbox inside your player) would have varying damage states, similar to how items have damage states. This damage state would be based on a simple numeric health value. When those organs or particular hitboxes take impact from a bullet, or a sharp melee weapon, or even blunt force, they will receive an appropriate amount of damage and apply a corresponding effect to your player, i.e. blood loss at a certain rate, a knockdown, broken leg, unconsciousness, insta-kill, ect. If an organ is only mildly damaged, say hit by a melee weapon or a small caliber weapon, then it has the ability to heal if you apply medical treatment. If it is damaged beyond a certain threshold, then it will fail and slowly (or rapidly, depending on the organ effected) kill your character through internal bleeding, which would not be repairable with a bandage.

 

I'd love some sort of system simulating terminal ballistics in the human body. That said, I think we can do okay with the simple damage model we've got now. It's just that it needs to be tweaked and reworked, just like everything else.

 

The lethality of the rounds are fantastic the way they are currently implemented. Where the differences between weapons will come into play would be with effective range, ballistics, precision (not accuracy - that's up to the shooter).

I.e. - an M4 and M16 fire the exact same round from the exact same mag. The M4 uses a shorter barrel which means the round escapes the muzzle sooner and has less time to accelerate. The shorter barrel also moves the center of gravity back which decreases controlablility and increases vertical recoil.

 

Of course, I was merely suggesting that we've got a relatively simple damage model currently. So, the cries of "OHK = realistic" don't really apply, as much more than that factors in. Likewise, that terminal ballistics aren't accurately portrayed in any other way than the very nebulous "damage", which is a problem in my mind. For example, in the mod, the M16 does 3300 blood per hit whereas the FAL does something closer to 8000. So, it's a bit silly (from a standpoint of the current paradigm) to dismiss all notions of balance/tweaking (ironically) and just have all weapons be relatively the same.

[Gth 18]

Just because someone has a gun and you don't doesn't make them overpowered. 

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

True, I think knockdown states are a quick fix to this. However, since this game is supposed to be about long term survival, I think it's inevitable that the damage model will need some serious revision. It would just be awesome to have a character that gets shot, manages to survive, and over the course of a few days actually makes a full recovery. Also, I really want surgery. So badly. I loved the medical system that Americas Army 3 used (despite some of it's flaws). I like the thought of being able to actually gain expertise into how to do surgery and prevent infections and such. Playing as a doctor appeals to me.

[kottton 5]

Im glad to hear that it doesnt take 6 rounds from a m4 or m16 to put someone down in the SA like it did in the mod.   I finally was able to get a m4 with ammo last night and was in a firefight with someone from the ATC tower , and I definitely put a good 10 rounds into him before he connected with me and I died instantly.   Ill chalk that up to either lag or some sort of bug to where you cant shoot through the rails of the ATC tower, because I had a buddy who was standing in the ATC tower doorway shooting at this person as well and he just wouldnt go down.   He was only 30 meters away so its not like he was hard to hit. 

Edited December 18, 2013 by kottton

[ryan__mc__@hotmail.co.uk 131]

I took 2-3 shoots and didn't even bleed, I think he shot you in the head

 

Or he didn't actually hit you or reg/latency issues.

[Kipale 78]

I shot my friend on chest by mistake with m4, he didn't get one shotted B)

[MattSL97 0]

I agree that 1-2 shots from almost any gun in the game is "realistic" but if we keep it like that there will be no desire to seek higher caliber weapons or rare military guns. I think we have to compromise at least a little bit.

[LiamFX (DayZ) 77]

Both matter. Which is why the system needs to be tweaked. A 7.62x51 is going to cavitate in the torso far more than a .22 LR regardless of where you hit.

 

Dude, are they all the same picture?

but seriously though, it really doesn't matter. I agree that hit areas are more worthwhile than the calibre itself. Not that that calibre doesn't matter, but you're thinking way to deep about it pal...

[ProGamerGov 74]

I agree that 1-2 shots from almost any gun in the game is "realistic" but if we keep it like that there will be no desire to seek higher caliber weapons or rare military guns. I think we have to compromise at least a little bit.

No. Higher caliber can be used for more penetration, against body armor and other protection.

[LiamFX (DayZ) 77]

I agree that 1-2 shots from almost any gun in the game is "realistic" but if we keep it like that there will be no desire to seek higher caliber weapons or rare military guns. I think we have to compromise at least a little bit.

Of course there is a reason to seek other calibre weapons. how rare the ammo is surely would be a factor and also whether you have a lot of it at the time.

[forluna 2]

guns to people

melee to zombies

 

but plz nerf the mosin or put more pistols could shoot in game 

cuz if u got a mosin even without box only 1 bullet in chamber

u conquer a whole city with several survivors just born from coast with a banana in hand.

[-Gews- 7443]

No balancing please!

 

Every gun should be a threat. We all know Dean said he wanted the game to feel "authentic".

 

In real life any gun is a threat to be taken seriously.

 

 

 

The guns shouldn't have the mod's massive differences in damage. Ever heard of "diminishing returns"? You can be just as dead from one shot with a 5.56 as with a 7.62.

 

 

Sorry, I don't want peashooters in this game. Don't want to die, try not to get shot. It's no joke.

[on3c3nt 185]

I agree that 1-2 shots from almost any gun in the game is "realistic" but if we keep it like that there will be no desire to seek higher caliber weapons or rare military guns. I think we have to compromise at least a little bit.

 

of course there will be desire to get better weapons... it's not the amount of bullets to take down a Survivor, it's about Range, precision and such things. Try comparing a M4 and a DMR on 800m. Both will kill you on 0-200m but i doubt you oneshot someone at 800m with a M4

[warmonger917 26]

If you get shot the chances are your going to die, all this 'lets balance it so you can take 4 or 5  shots before you drop' is rubbish...That is not what dayz is about. It's realism not balance. If you want balance go and play certain fun fps shooters because you should not be playing Dayz that's for sure. Learn to aim and profit, save the running and gunning from 200 metres for the audience that want it, im sure that's not the Dayz community....Or am i totally wrong?! :huh: