Side channel should remain for Alpha purposes

[samjwbrowne@gmail.com 15]

Hi guys,

While I do enjoy the atmosphere that the lack of side or global channel creates (the oppressive sense of complete loneliness and disconnection--most of the time you'd never know there were 49 other people in the server with you), I think it really needs to stay, especially while the game is in the Alpha testing stage.

There's just too many times that some kind of bug (or what appears to be a bug) comes up, and it's kinda necessary to be able to discuss it with the players in the server first. To find out if it is indeed something that other people are experiencing, or something that you're missing or doing wrong or whatever.

This makes the testing experience a hell of a lot less frustrating than having to make your way to the forums to find out how to do something, or whether something is a bug that needs fixing.

Just a thought.

[andjj@andjj.f9.co.uk 0]

I would also like to see side channel come back. I am a server host trying to build a friendly server of regulars, but without the ability to chat everyone has to treat each other as a hostile.

I don't know if this is by design, if so it seems like an odd choice, as I believe rocket has said he only sees replayability in dayz with meta games with other people... not easy without communication.

[liquidje 38]

Could you guys also provide concrete examples of situations where this is really neccesary?

Also, please note that a "friendly server of regulars" can not be enforced. I don't really see how side chat can help with that to be honest, except for immersion breaking reasons.

[Zoop 343]

So the removal of side chat now means that if you spot a survivor in the distance you've got no way to talk to him and/or don't know whether he's friendly or not? Good. This is the zombie apocalypse. The mod is right on track then.

[andjj@andjj.f9.co.uk 0]

Hey there Liquidje, I like how you immediately move to an imaginary courtroom with requests for proof and evidence, it shows a keen (and perhaps bored) mind. However, I think you misjudge me, I merely said I would like to see the return of a feature that was pleasant and useful before. Really necessary? Well no. How much of anything is really necessary? That seems like a silly standard to immediately try to apply to anything.

But an example of where it was useful? Sure, I was playing on a server with similar goals to mine not long ago (being friendly to each other), and a guy was dying. He asked if anyone was in the area, and could anyone come and help him. I was aware that it could have been a trap, but I responded and went to give him a bandage and transfusion. It was not a trap, and his life was saved. Sure, none of that was necessary, if nobody had said anything he would have died and the universe would not have given a single damn, but that's not the point. From that time on he and I knew each other, knew we could trust each other, and honestly I felt better about my experiences of playing because if it.

Thank you for pointing out that I cannot enforce a friendly atmosphere on my server! Yes, I actually am aware that I cant enforce it, however I think I'll still try anyway.

---

@Zoop *sigh*

[Zoop 343]

@Zoop *sigh*

No, not sigh. Why should a feature that shouldn't have been in the mod in the first place be returned simply because you do not have proper avenues to communicate with your players? We've got a forum for our server. If anyone has issues on the server, they can take it there and people are bound to respond to it.

You can do the same. There are bajillions of free forum hosting sites available to you. Use them. No need to bring back a feature which cheapens the game experience just because you think people should be able to scream halfway across the map for help if they're bleeding out in Berezino or want to discuss bugs you encounter in-game.

A friendly atmosphere does not come from Side chat. In fact, Side chat was one of my most important tools back in my bandit days.

[andjj@andjj.f9.co.uk 0]

Excellent, I hope the forums provide you with the play experience you are looking for Zoop.

[Zoop 343]

Post has been edited. Maybe read it again.

[andjj@andjj.f9.co.uk 0]

It seems that overall the objections to the side channel come from the point of view of people who want to play the game in a certain way, which is fine, but that is subjective to personal preference. We have lots of settings that allow people to change servers to their personal preference, is it really so outlandish to consider side chat another option?

I think I've made the points I came to the thread to make, I'm not really interested in getting into an argument about it.

[Zoop 343]

Also, I'd like to point out that this

but without the ability to chat everyone has to treat each other as a hostile.

is nonsense. A communities' friendliness is not dependent on the ability to telepathically talk to each other. People treat each other as hostile because they want to shoot each other. If they wanted to avoid shooting each other, they would.

I respect your vision for your server, Greyson, but it's not dependant on Side chat.

[andjj@andjj.f9.co.uk 0]

I'm sorry Zoop, I don't really agree with you, but ce la vie.

[Zoop 343]

Let's put it this way then. You want to encourage a friendly atmosphere, and you're saying that the removal of Side chat hampers this. I can only assume this is because players don't know what to make of other players they spot in the distance and simply assume they're hostile. I say in the distance, because if they were closer you could use Direct comms anyway.

Now let's put it this way. You see someone in the distance, and assume he's hostile (which you should be doing regardless of Side chat or not). You're trying to encourage a friendly atmosphere, so why should being unable to communicate with him be an issue? If you're not sure whether someone can be trusted or not, why not just sneak away? There's no need shoot him.

[samjwbrowne@gmail.com 15]

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with using side chat as a tool for communication within the game (after all, that's pretty damn unrealistic), though in saying that it's probably not a terrible thing to have in that regard until they introduce some kind of 2-way radio system, which I'm sure they will. Or until they allow you to 'yell' or something, or at least make direct not the equivalent of wispering at someone 10 metres away from you.

As for the bug reporting stuff, what you're missing here Zoop is that this is an alpha test for a game. You're not actually playing it to enjoy yourself (though that often comes with it, which is why this mod is so popular), you're playing it to test new features and make sure everything's working. Usually alpha testing isn't done publicly, and the alpha testers are all in contact with each other to discuss what's going on.

As for examples, there's tonnes. There's new players (testers) coming on, having little idea what to do (even after reading the guides, which become outdated on a weekly basis), and they can hardly adequately test the game without knowing the basic functionality of it. But if you subscribe to 'noobs are noobs and should figure it out themselves' (which is very narcisistic), it also applies to new stuff coming out in all the patches. If you think it's conducive to a good alpha test to have to jump on the forums when you first come across a hatchet and can't pick it up because you don't know it takes up a primary weapon slot now instead of a slot on your toolbelt (as of the last patch at least), then you're wrong. Similar with patches which introduced massive FPS hits--is it your computer, or the patch? You either have to jump out of the game, log into the forums and see if somebody's posted about it, or you can open up side chat and say 'Is anybody else getting horrible FPS?' and everybody will say yes, or no if it's on your end for whatever reason.

Basically, these examples are endless, and that's more or less all I ever used side chat for after I got the beta which made direct chat more or less reliable.

As I said, in a final version (or even a beta) you're not going to want to have a side chat, because that ruins the atmosphere that the game is trying to create. But for now, it's very condusive to alpha testing. It's not exactly something that needs to be 'tested', disabling side is always going to work.

[Zoop 343]

And I still disagree, because there's nothing wrong with going somewhere safe quick, minimizing the game and googling something or checking the DayZ forums for it. You make it sound like a chore. It isn't.

BTW, the removal of Side is also part of the Alpha test.

[liquidje 38]

Hey there Liquidje' date=' I like how you immediately move to an imaginary courtroom with requests for proof and evidence, it shows a keen (and perhaps bored) mind. However, I think you misjudge me, I merely said I would like to see the return of a feature that was pleasant and useful before. Really necessary? Well no. How much of anything is really necessary? That seems like a silly standard to immediately try to apply to anything.

[/quote']

Well, I like it how you immediately defend your idea like I am the idiot. However, do note that you are requesting the reinstating of a feature which was deliberately removed. I don’t mind that people want that, but I can’t think of any apparent reason to reinstate it, except to maybe the sole reason it was removed from the game in the first place: namely, finding out if someone is friendly and breaking the immersion.

Also, I do not ask for proof/evidence, I just ask for a freaking example...

But an example of where it was useful? Sure' date=' I was playing on a server with similar goals to mine not long ago (being friendly to each other), and a guy was dying. He asked if anyone was in the area, and could anyone come and help him. I was aware that it could have been a trap, but I responded and went to give him a bandage and transfusion. It was not a trap, and his life was saved. Sure, none of that was necessary, if nobody had said anything he would have died and the universe would not have given a single damn, but that's not the point. [b']From that time on he and I knew each other, knew we could trust each other, and honestly I felt better about my experiences of playing because if it.

Thank you for pointing out that I cannot enforce a friendly atmosphere on my server! Yes, I actually am aware that I cant enforce it, however I think I'll still try anyway.

I am not going to start this whole argument again. The game is built around security, not being entirely sure if someone is friendly beforehand. That’s why bandit skins were removed, and that’s why anything else helping you “know who you can trust” will probably not make it into the game.

It seems that overall the objections to the side channel come from the point of view of people who want to play the game in a certain way' date=' which is fine, but that is subjective to personal preference.[/b'] We have lots of settings that allow people to change servers to their personal preference, is it really so outlandish to consider side chat another option?

I think I've made the points I came to the thread to make, I'm not really interested in getting into an argument about it.

The point is, there is only ONE person in the position to determine if a feature is fit or not. He did not remove side chat for nothing: he did it for the exact purpose YOU want it back.

I am just saying, don’t expect it. I just wanted to “motivate” you to clear out your point a little bit to come up with an alternative. Obviously your response is not very friendly, also you are ill-informed on Rocket his point of view on the game.

[Spookz0r 12]

You guys just want to see: Who is shooting in Cherno?!?!?! WHO KILLED ME?!?!? There is no reason to have side chat in dayz.

[Guest]

Sidechat had very little value add to the game. It was a cess pool for bandits and upset players to vent their stupidity across the entire server.

That being said, the setting Rocket used to turn this off is in the mission file and not available to the server host. Bohemia would have to add that in.

[rad87 0]

Well if it was not for the side chat I would probbably still play alone. Few days before sidechat removal I got hurt pretty badly like around 2k blood left. Using side chat I ask for help and offered sniper rifle with ammo for transfusion. It was my best loot I found at that time so it wasn't like I didn't want to die because of loosing stuff, I just don't like dying. One guy decied to trust me and with starting gear got a bloodpack in cherno and made a run to me (I was at NW airfield). Because it was night and he had no compass it took him like around 3 hours to get anywhere near, yet still quite far. And then a bandit killed me while I was lying helpless on the floor. I'm glad all that happend because we are now friends with the guy who took the risk to save me and we play as a team.

I don't think that removing global chat was a bad thing, but the direct coms should have bigger range in my opinion. Like maybe the size of a small city (like a village)

[CA1Admin 17]

Some servers still have side chat enabled...

[Meshuggah (DayZ) 2]

I think it should stay just of the fact that experienced players can help out new players with commands and what not. I mean I didnt know how to jump fences after a week because I didn't have it in me to check out the 10000 different controls option in the menu. And I doubt im the only one who just bought Arma to play DayZ. Ergo I didn't know so much about the commands and controls when i started playing.

[Zoop 343]

Some servers still have side chat enabled...

Those servers are probably still on the old mission file' date=' or they edited it. If you can, let the admins of those servers know there is a new mission file out.

I think it should stay just of the fact that experienced players can help out new players with commands and what not. I mean I didnt know how to jump fences after a week because I didn't have it in me to check out the 10000 different controls option in the menu. And I doubt im the only one who just bought Arma to play DayZ. Ergo I didn't know so much about the commands and controls when i started playing.

If those players are too lazy to go check the control screen, they can google it. There's no need to enable an immersion breaking feature so that a few noobs can learn how to vault fences.

[SystemiK 366]

I agree that side chat is a very useful tool for others to help out newcomers to the game and I spent a lot of time doing just that. On the other hand, though I did not want to see side chat go, I actually like not having the distraction of it.

Never thought I'd say this, but I vote no to side chat.

[JeffCraig 1]

This project is in alpha stage. Not having a global chat makes it harder for people to communicate about bugs or how to use new features.

It should be the server admins choice to have side chat or not. It's total BS that they have threatened to blacklist servers that run with side chat enabled.

[fighter139 191]

Sidechat had very little value add to the game. It was a cess pool for bandits and upset players to vent their stupidity across the entire server.

That being said' date=' the setting Rocket used to turn this off is in the mission file and not available to the server host. Bohemia would have to add that in.

[/quote']

Negative, it's available. You would need an unpbo tool because it's located in the mission pbo. Not going into any more detail than that. Use Google for more information.

[Shnougle 0]

What I don't understand is why there isn't a choice. Shouldn't it be up to the server owners whether they want it or not?

There's so many servers out there that if you wanted to play without side chat you could simply join a server without side chat, and visa versa. There is absolutely no reason to have it off or on. It's all a matter of perspective and preference. It gives no advantages or disadvantages to anyone. Playing on a server with side chat isn't going to help you get rare drops any faster than on a server without side chat.

Yes, it is unrealistic in a game where the point is realism. But there are tons of things that are far more unrealistic; your inability to switch weapons while moving, the fact that everyone looks almost exactly the same, falling 10 feet breaks your leg and knocks you unconsious, zombies phasing through walls, third person mode, etc.

If you want to be hardcore and play without side chat on veteran with no crosshairs in first person (and sometimes I like to do just that), fine. Thats on you. But don't force everyone else to play it your way.

On a side note, on most servers where I had side chat enabled I was simply chatting and cracking jokes with other people on the server. We all seemed to be having a good time, it wasn't hindering anyone or causing any problems. It was simply us, talking and having a good time. Whats wrong with having fun playing a game your own way?