Blood Mechanic- Rethink

[gangrenetvp 74]

Several Things...

First of the whole blood mechanic needs to be slightly revised... There should be a blood rate which is constantly changing the blood level. This blood rate should take many variables into account and apply them all on top of one another. People naturally heal... I'm cut, I scab, I heal... So I think that blood should go up 5 units every minute given everything is good and okay... So in 10 hours of play you can regain your 3,000 health(300 an hour)... and add in the temporary effects of eating... even more, seems fair and realistic. If a zombie hit takes you down 1,200 blood(plus bleeding), then you have to play 4 hours without a SINGLE hit, just to stay even. Seems challenging enough. Given 40 hours of play a player could completely heal with a lack of damage, hunger, thirst, bleeding, sickness, etc... You could add items like creams to give a small bonus to your natural healing.

Right now the sickness is OUT OF CONTROL. It’s at the point where it IS taking the fun out of the game. You get sick and die very quickly… A friend and I had a vehicle and we went to 3 hospitals, we were both sick because, it is VERY easy to get sick. We found almost no supplies and we both died, and quickly… If someone gets sick now, the chances of them getting well are slim to none and it’s a matter of gathering meat, just so they can just hang on. Frankly, it’s just better for them to suicide with some more zombie hits and respawn at the coast because playing sick right now isn’t any fun. If you had a chance for survival it would be a fun adventure. It is none of that now.

I feel that sickness should take 10-20 hours to kill someone in game time... So if sickness had a -25 a minute effect plus your natural healing... that's a net effect of -20 a minute... which equates to -1200 an hour and your dead in 10 hours, if you don’t get injured, hungry, thirsty, etc… That is a long, but fair amount of time to run around the map and look for very rare antibiotics… I also think that a combination of items should be able to slow the infection, for example chicken leg + boiled water + tent rest reduces the sickness rate to -15, doubling your time for a 1-2 hours. Being able to lower the chances of sickness via a combination of a bandage + alcohol + fire + knife… to burn out and clean the wound within an hour of being bit, I think, would be a great addition.

The real issue is eating then, as food could substantially counter -1200 an hour via sickness... Blood amounts for food would have to be altered and the quantity of food that can be eaten would also have to be drastically reduced to a realistic amount of about 1-2 food items per hour... For example, eating a can of food may positively effect your blood rate by +10 for 10 minutes, essentially giving you 100 blood, but that does not cancel out the sickness as your net rate of Natural Healing(+5) + Sickness(-25) + Can Food (+10) = -10 a minute… and after the 10 minutes you’ll be at -20 again and can’t eat for another 20 minutes… twice an hour eating limit. So selecting a choice item is critical(meat vs. a can)... animal spawning should be more rare. Also the rate of hunger should be 4-8 hours and like 3 hours to drink with running changing that drastically. Need to get a swig from the canteen every 15-20 minutes while running full bore. A canteen could also have 3-4 drinks like a clip has rounds. Keep in mind that water has to be boiled. Food and drink could be made rarer if you didn’t have to eat or drink as often. Hunger and thirst would also lower your blood rate… Maybe -30 a minute for water and -15 for hunger. Sick, hungry, and thirsty would then be a nasty combination! Dead in just a few hours.

BTW, having food give you between +10 and +30 a minute for 10 minutes is more realistic than getting 600 blood instantly… Eating food during a fire fight would be less like a health potion then.

Bleeding, also, could be more realistic and the same with bandages... do you patch up a deep 6 inch would with 1 simple bandaid? To make it more realistic you could have several layers to bleeding. Minor Bleeding = -200 blood a minute(1 hour death time), Moderate Bleeding -400 Blood(30 minute bleed out), Severe Bleeding -800 (15 minute bleed out), Critical Bleeding -1600 (7.5 minute bleed out). There could be another level beyond critical bleeding.... and each bandage takes you down one level... So, if you are critically bleeding you'll have to take the time to apply 4 bandages, if you have that many, and take all of that blood loss before you stop bleeding. If a zombie grazes you, you’re not going to bleed out from that, seriously… minor bleeding seems most likely… if you have a few munching on you, you could quickly ramp up to critical bleeding… a gun shot, depending on where you’re hit could do any of those levels of bleeding + the initial damage. I think that system would more accurately reflect reality.

A second important thing would be to make every action in the game a combination of items, JUST LIKE COOKING MEAT. You have to have an axe to get wood, matches to light a fire, a knife to gut, and should need a gun to kill an animal(they should run faster than us, and be scared off easily). Also, there should not be special slots for certain items, just various item sizes(Qty. of slots). What does all of that mean? It means to do various tasks, bandaging, healing sickness, creating a weapon, making food, boiling water, sterilizing wounds,  etc… You have to carry around a BUNCH of stuff… having limited inventory and many items needed means making decisions about what you are going to be able to do and not do… and builds up the team idea… To be able to do everything, you NEED to team up. One guy can’t carry a rifle because he’s got an axe(and a pistol)… This guy can’t carry a lot of food because he has a LOT of bandages(medic) because each wound could need 4-5 of them… plus blood transfusions and other stuff to sterilize wounds. So you might have a chef, 2 soldiers, and a medic all in one group because they NEED one another.

Just to reinforce what I just said… a bandage should take up the same inventory slots, as a coke can, as a pistol clip, as a map, as a compass, as a gun, etc… Make them all take the same slots so players have to make tough choices… I don’t want to say… oh sure, take the bandages because I have pistol clip slots open… I should be saying to take those 4 bandages, I’ll have to remove one of my Cokes from the bag… hhhmmm, what should I do?

[spinager 152]

I like the bleeding mechanic requiring more bandages. But imo, everything else is fine.

[applejaxc 2500]

1: Rocket's working on it... I hope

2: You don't "Scab up" a gunshot. Thus, Rocket's super health system.

[BelMarduk 169]

Alot I think has to do with ARMA mechanics. Ive suggested a revamped blood system many times, and parts of it were added. I dont think getting too frisky with the health is really needed. I do think however bring back infection will only take you down to 2000 blood, but NOT kill you. I also think food and blood bags should never give instant blood (health) back. Blood bag should give 20% the dif between current blood and max blood with a set regen at say 4-5 blood per second for say 5 min. Food will give the paltry 200-400 blood instantly but only regen more blood at say 3/sec if and only if drink, temp and food meters are at or above 80%. Whatever the regen for health when food, drink and temp is full should be 1 less than infection decrease. Another way of putting that is infection will very very slowly drop blood(health) if your well fed, but faster if you're hungry and or thursty. I do like the idea of chicken + water + tin can + fire = chicken soup and will cure infection.

[NotRedd 51]

i like the idea of the bandaging and stuff. personally i thought it was really really dumb when you get shot or w/e that you take instant damage. personally i think that the bigger the calibur or where it hits should just make you bleed more or not. so if you get shot with a mak in the leg, then you shout start bleeding by 50 a second, meanwhile if you got shot with a dmr or w/e you should bleed 500 a second. but it stacks if you get shot more. so if you get shot twice with a dmr then you get 1000 bleeding damage a second and shit. which would be very lethal, very quickly.

 

this should also take into account distance for obvious reasons. farther away, the less bullet penetration.

Edited July 18, 2013 by NotRedd

[DemonGroover 8836]

As far as Standalone is concerned i think the whole system is getting redone. Blood and Health will be factors to take care of. Bandages do in fact take inventory slots in the SA as does everything.

 

As far as i am concerned though getting shot in an apocalypse would be very bad news. A simple bandage and a bloodbag shouldn't miraculously fix all. Perhaps you can slow the bleeding until you can get proper medical treatment (somehow?)

[plexico 386]

i like the idea of the bandaging and stuff. personally i thought it was really really dumb when you get shot or w/e that you take instant damage. personally i think that the bigger the calibur or where it hits should just make you bleed more or not. so if you get shot with a mak in the leg, then you shout start bleeding by 50 a second, meanwhile if you got shot with a dmr or w/e you should bleed 500 a second. but it stacks if you get shot more. so if you get shot twice with a dmr then you get 1000 bleeding damage a second and shit. which would be very lethal, very quickly.

 

this should also take into account distance for obvious reasons. farther away, the less bullet penetration.

By that logic it would take 24 DMR shots to kill someone. In real life bullets injure you, not just make you bleed.

[BelMarduk 169]

By that logic it would take 24 DMR shots to kill someone. In real life bullets injure you, not just make you bleed.

I get what he was going for... though the numbers weren't well thought out. IRL in the setting of the game, a grazing shot from a .22 that just opened flesh and not even hit muscle would have a very very high chance of being fatal (from infection not blood loss). A penetrating gun shot wound takes week(s) to recover from in hospital conditions. e.g. you have to keep the mechanics of health simple and fast to accommodate it being a game of survival not a game of recuperation.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

You could argue that there is way more kinetic energy in a hatchet or a crowbar than there is in a bullet tho...

 

I think making recuperation longer would actually make the game more about survival, knowing that any gunfight will potentially leave you crippled for a while is the kind of things that seems to support the core concept of the game.

[King of kong 1117]

Several Things...

First of the whole blood mechanic needs to be slightly revised... There should be a blood rate which is constantly changing the blood level. This blood rate should take many variables into account and apply them all on top of one another. People naturally heal... I'm cut, I scab, I heal... So I think that blood should go up 5 units every minute given everything is good and okay... So in 10 hours of play you can regain your 3,000 health(300 an hour)... and add in the temporary effects of eating... even more, seems fair and realistic. If a zombie hit takes you down 1,200 blood(plus bleeding), then you have to play 4 hours without a SINGLE hit, just to stay even. Seems challenging enough. Given 40 hours of play a player could completely heal with a lack of damage, hunger, thirst, bleeding, sickness, etc... You could add items like creams to give a small bonus to your natural healing.

Right now the sickness is OUT OF CONTROL. It’s at the point where it IS taking the fun out of the game. You get sick and die very quickly… A friend and I had a vehicle and we went to 3 hospitals, we were both sick because, it is VERY easy to get sick. We found almost no supplies and we both died, and quickly… If someone gets sick now, the chances of them getting well are slim to none and it’s a matter of gathering meat, just so they can just hang on. Frankly, it’s just better for them to suicide with some more zombie hits and respawn at the coast because playing sick right now isn’t any fun. If you had a chance for survival it would be a fun adventure. It is none of that now.

I feel that sickness should take 10-20 hours to kill someone in game time... So if sickness had a -25 a minute effect plus your natural healing... that's a net effect of -20 a minute... which equates to -1200 an hour and your dead in 10 hours, if you don’t get injured, hungry, thirsty, etc… That is a long, but fair amount of time to run around the map and look for very rare antibiotics… I also think that a combination of items should be able to slow the infection, for example chicken leg + boiled water + tent rest reduces the sickness rate to -15, doubling your time for a 1-2 hours. Being able to lower the chances of sickness via a combination of a bandage + alcohol + fire + knife… to burn out and clean the wound within an hour of being bit, I think, would be a great addition.

The real issue is eating then, as food could substantially counter -1200 an hour via sickness... Blood amounts for food would have to be altered and the quantity of food that can be eaten would also have to be drastically reduced to a realistic amount of about 1-2 food items per hour... For example, eating a can of food may positively effect your blood rate by +10 for 10 minutes, essentially giving you 100 blood, but that does not cancel out the sickness as your net rate of Natural Healing(+5) + Sickness(-25) + Can Food (+10) = -10 a minute… and after the 10 minutes you’ll be at -20 again and can’t eat for another 20 minutes… twice an hour eating limit. So selecting a choice item is critical(meat vs. a can)... animal spawning should be more rare. Also the rate of hunger should be 4-8 hours and like 3 hours to drink with running changing that drastically. Need to get a swig from the canteen every 15-20 minutes while running full bore. A canteen could also have 3-4 drinks like a clip has rounds. Keep in mind that water has to be boiled. Food and drink could be made rarer if you didn’t have to eat or drink as often. Hunger and thirst would also lower your blood rate… Maybe -30 a minute for water and -15 for hunger. Sick, hungry, and thirsty would then be a nasty combination! Dead in just a few hours.

BTW, having food give you between +10 and +30 a minute for 10 minutes is more realistic than getting 600 blood instantly… Eating food during a fire fight would be less like a health potion then.

Bleeding, also, could be more realistic and the same with bandages... do you patch up a deep 6 inch would with 1 simple bandaid? To make it more realistic you could have several layers to bleeding. Minor Bleeding = -200 blood a minute(1 hour death time), Moderate Bleeding -400 Blood(30 minute bleed out), Severe Bleeding -800 (15 minute bleed out), Critical Bleeding -1600 (7.5 minute bleed out). There could be another level beyond critical bleeding.... and each bandage takes you down one level... So, if you are critically bleeding you'll have to take the time to apply 4 bandages, if you have that many, and take all of that blood loss before you stop bleeding. If a zombie grazes you, you’re not going to bleed out from that, seriously… minor bleeding seems most likely… if you have a few munching on you, you could quickly ramp up to critical bleeding… a gun shot, depending on where you’re hit could do any of those levels of bleeding + the initial damage. I think that system would more accurately reflect reality.

A second important thing would be to make every action in the game a combination of items, JUST LIKE COOKING MEAT. You have to have an axe to get wood, matches to light a fire, a knife to gut, and should need a gun to kill an animal(they should run faster than us, and be scared off easily). Also, there should not be special slots for certain items, just various item sizes(Qty. of slots). What does all of that mean? It means to do various tasks, bandaging, healing sickness, creating a weapon, making food, boiling water, sterilizing wounds,  etc… You have to carry around a BUNCH of stuff… having limited inventory and many items needed means making decisions about what you are going to be able to do and not do… and builds up the team idea… To be able to do everything, you NEED to team up. One guy can’t carry a rifle because he’s got an axe(and a pistol)… This guy can’t carry a lot of food because he has a LOT of bandages(medic) because each wound could need 4-5 of them… plus blood transfusions and other stuff to sterilize wounds. So you might have a chef, 2 soldiers, and a medic all in one group because they NEED one another.

Just to reinforce what I just said… a bandage should take up the same inventory slots, as a coke can, as a pistol clip, as a map, as a compass, as a gun, etc… Make them all take the same slots so players have to make tough choices… I don’t want to say… oh sure, take the bandages because I have pistol clip slots open… I should be saying to take those 4 bandages, I’ll have to remove one of my Cokes from the bag… hhhmmm, what should I do?

I quite like the sickness mechanic, it is realistic, you get hit by an infected who probably has been coated in human excrement and gore would likely hold a lot of diseases and bacteria, so if you get a cut from an infected who may have enjoyed a manwhich recently then yo probably get sick, just use stealth

[NotRedd 51]

I get what he was going for... though the numbers weren't well thought out. IRL in the setting of the game, a grazing shot from a .22 that just opened flesh and not even hit muscle would have a very very high chance of being fatal (from infection not blood loss). A penetrating gun shot wound takes week(s) to recover from in hospital conditions. e.g. you have to keep the mechanics of health simple and fast to accommodate it being a game of survival not a game of recuperation.

 

they wernt thought out. it was an idea to give. i think it would be better with that + whatever rocket puts in. so broken ribs, arms, lung damage ect ect.