Something Needs Changing

[Otleaz 3]

As a player who needs pills/morphine, my options are to go to a PvP hotspot and most definitely get shot in the back, or shoot a new character and take his.

Either new characters should stop starting with pills/morphine, or the loot tables around the world need to be expanded to give these things.

EDIT: Didn't think this was such a foreign concept to some people so I didn't bother explaining, but since it is I will just put this on the first post.

"There are two major problems here:

1. New players and new characters become a target, more-so than they already were.

2. The player is encouraged to go one route, rather than feeling like he has a choice.

Generally, the player has two choices in a game like this, scavenge or steal. Both scale exceptionally well with risk vs reward for reasons I shouldn't need to explain.

With this exception, however, the player has three choices, scavenge, steal, or steal from a new character.

This completely throws off the balance of risk vs reward and punishes multiple people because of it. The new characters, since they will become a target, and the killers, because they were robbed of a choice."

[griffinz 2816]

That's the name of the game...you decide how you survive.

Personally, if Im alone, Ill climb to a hospital roof and grab med supplies (they arent JUST inside the glass doors).

[Otleaz 3]

That's the name of the game...you decide how you survive.

Personally' date=' if Im alone, Ill climb to a hospital roof and grab med supplies (they arent JUST inside the glass doors).

[/quote']

I understand that, but I don't think it is a good idea to encourage players to farm new characters. Not only am I encouraged right now, it is my best option.

[Reklin 56]

I honestly don't know how you have ANY problem getting pills and morphine. All over hospitals and medtents there are medboxes that contain like 5-10 of each as well as Epi and Blood bags.

Other than that, going into Chern or Elektro I have not once failed to find a corpse with painkillers or morphine or both when I needed them.

The fact you're the only person I've ever seen complain about a lack of these items shows that it's not at all something that "needs" to change.

[Otleaz 3]

I honestly don't know how you have ANY problem getting pills and morphine. All over hospitals and medtents there are medboxes that contain like 5-10 of each as well as Epi and Blood bags.

Other than that' date=' going into Chern or Elektro I have not once failed to find a corpse with painkillers or morphine or both when I needed them.

The fact you're the only person I've ever seen complain about a lack of to these items shows that it's not at all something that "needs" to change.

[/quote']

Reading comprehension is your friend, why do you abuse him?

I'm making suggestions and pointing out bad game design, not complaining. I wouldn't care even if these supplies were at the top of a mountain inside a fort completely crawling with bandits. The issue here is that the easiest way to get pills and morphine is to kill new characters.

[franko1932 0]

I honestly don't know how you have ANY problem getting pills and morphine. All over hospitals and medtents there are medboxes that contain like 5-10 of each as well as Epi and Blood bags.

Other than that' date=' going into Chern or Elektro I have not once failed to find a corpse with painkillers or morphine or both when I needed them.

The fact you're the only person I've ever seen complain about a lack of to these items shows that it's not at all something that "needs" to change.

[/quote']

Agreed, not only that, but as mentioned above this is part of the draw of the game. Do you turn to killing another player; or do you say to yourself, ok I really need x, but I have to go to x to get it. If you decide to go into x to get those supplies, you now have to plan out how you are going to execute that plan. I know that if I am in need of something that I must go through town for, I will sit outside of the town until night fall (or log off until night fall) and then go grab my supplies under the cover of darkness. It may not protect you 100% but it gives you a better chance of survival.

[Otleaz 3]

Agreed' date=' not only that, but as mentioned above this is part of the draw of the game. Do you turn to killing another player; or do you say to yourself, ok I really need x, but I have to go to x to get it. If you decide to go into x to get those supplies, you now have to plan out how you are going to execute that plan. I know that if I am in need of something that I must go through town for, I will sit outside of the town until night fall (or log off until night fall) and then go grab my supplies under the cover of darkness. It may not protect you 100% but it gives you a better chance of survival.

[/quote']

Yeah, that is great and all, but it is unfortunately null once you realize you can just pop a guy with only a peashooter to defend himself with to avoid all that trouble.

[griffinz 2816]

I think you're missing the point of this game

[Otleaz 3]

I think you're missing the point of this game

I think you are missing my point.

Maybe I'm too accustomed to forums where people actually understand basic game design, but I really cannot make this any simpler.

[griffinz 2816]

You want this game to be changed to cater to your needs so you dont have a hard decision to make in regards to survival.

This is something I have feared for a couple of weeks...the wider gaming community will jump on this mod and start asking the mod to be changed so it is more "newbie friendly", until eventually it is not a survival sandbox any more.

[franko1932 0]

Yeah, that is great and all, but it is unfortunately null once you realize you can just pop a guy with only a peashooter to defend himself with to avoid all that trouble.

Ok, I understand now, you are upset because you CHOOSE to go the easy route and you want something to change so that you no longer have the CHOICE to shoot another player. You would rather put newbs in a position to shoot other players because they do not spawn with anything to venture into the game with. I am not trying to be a smartass but, your whole argument is predicated around you making that decision to take the easier route, which is absolutely your decision, as it is everyones decision that plays this game. I choose to be a lone survivor that would rather challenge myself going into a city than doing the easy thing and camping a shore line just because I do not have any beans left; again that is just my decision, but I do not think the game should change based off my personal decisions.

[talk2nguyen@gmail.com 0]

I haven't seen anyone so stubborn... Why even make a post if you are just going to disagree with everyone.. Sure you can shoot other people, and they can shoot you back too.. Q_Q I don't start out with enough medical supplies..

"P.S. you guys are pussies"

-rocket

[franko1932 0]

I think you're missing the point of this game

I think you are missing my point.

Maybe I'm too accustomed to forums where people actually understand basic game design' date=' but I really cannot make this any simpler.

[/quote']

Yes, you are the enlightened one; not the guy that created the MOD which took a game and by one MOD increased an entire games sales.

Yes, you are the enlightened one; not those of the community that have been playing the MOD since its inception.

I am not saying that there should never be any suggestions or that things cannot be improved; my problem is with your premise, that only you knows what is best for the success of this MOD, and that anyone that disagrees with you does not know what they are talking about. Too many times people make suggestions and get butt hurt when it does not go over well with the community; get over yourselves, that is how you grow as an individual, not by getting defensive because you did not have a popular suggestion.

[Otleaz 3]

Ok' date=' I understand now, you are upset because you CHOOSE to go the easy route and you want something to change so that you no longer have the CHOICE to shoot another player. You would rather put newbs in a position to shoot other players because they do not spawn with anything to venture into the game with. I am not trying to be a smartass but, your whole argument is predicated around you making that decision to take the easier route, which is absolutely your decision, as it is everyones decision that plays this game. I choose to be a lone survivor that would rather challenge myself going into a city than doing the easy thing and camping a shore line just because I do not have any beans left; again that is just my decision, but I do not think the game should change based off my personal decisions.

[/quote']

Yes, you could look at it that way, but the vast majority call that "bad game design". You should look it up, this specific instance would be under that Risk vs Reward section of the Bad Game Design Encyclopedia.

There are two major problems here:

1. New players and new characters become a target, more-so than they already were.

2. The player is encouraged to go one route, rather than feeling like he has a choice.

Generally, the player has two choices in a game like this, scavenge or steal. Both scale exceptionally well with risk vs reward for reasons I shouldn't need to explain.

With this exception, however, the player has three choices, scavenge, steal, or steal from a new character.

This completely throws off the balance of risk vs reward and punishes multiple people because of it. The new characters, since they will become a target, and the killers, because they were robbed of a choice.

I can't believe I had to explain this to the same people complaining about the "wider audience" coming to the game. I can't believe I had to explain this at all.

[Jaleno 4]

I recently started playing this game, yesterday. From what I've learned so far, there should be NO changes in terms of helping newer players, in terms of a safe zone etc. A legit guide on the forums would be very helpful, however, this game is all about trial and error. You die, you learn from it. You rush into a difficult area, you go in more carefully next time. Give the game time, it really grows on you. =)

[Otleaz 3]

Too many times people make suggestions and get butt hurt when it does not go over well with the community; get over yourselves' date=' that is how you grow as an individual, not by getting defensive because you did not have a popular suggestion.

[/quote']

I don't care that it isn't a popular suggestion. I think I was more insulted by the fact that nobody caught my point, as if I wasn't clear enough.

I don't know if I felt better or worse once I realized that the reason nobody understood what I was saying was because they didn't understand the concept of risk vs reward.

[zeru 5]

If you wanna play now without waiting on game design refinements (which I also agree are needed), I recommend rolling the dice and visiting a hospital roof. You might get killed by rooftop campers, but if you do make it you can stock up on enough supplies to last you weeks. Also try to carry additional morphine and painkillers, as they're a whole lot more useful than blood bags and epipens.

[Otleaz 3]

If you wanna play now without waiting on game design refinements (which I also agree are needed)' date=' I recommend rolling the dice and visiting a hospital roof. You might get killed by rooftop campers, but if you do make it you can stock up on enough supplies to last you weeks. Also try to carry additional morphine and painkillers, as they're a whole lot more useful than blood bags and epipens.

[/quote']

Yeah, I just wanted to get this out there so people are aware that it needs changing.

[funionz 7]

You want this game to be changed to cater to your needs so you dont have a hard decision to make in regards to survival.

This is something I have feared for a couple of weeks...the wider gaming community will jump on this mod and start asking the mod to be changed so it is more "newbie friendly"' date=' until eventually it is not a survival sandbox any more.

[/quote']

I love you. :heart:

[Otleaz 3]

I love you. :heart:

Yes, people who group others up into a VERY general group while talking down about said group are very attractive.

Especially when they are ignorant of the topic at hand and assume it is an example of what they are talking down about, when it is actually the opposite.

[funionz 7]

I love you. :heart:

Yes' date=' people who group others up into a VERY general group while talking down about said group are very attractive.

Especially when they are ignorant of the topic at hand and assume it is an example of what they are talking down about, when it is actually the opposite.

[/quote']

Aww theres plenty of love to go around. Don't get mad. I simply like his statement about the influx of people lately who want to adjust the game to their liking, rather than taking the game at face value and learning to adapt.

I've never shot a beach comber for their pills or supplies, most of the time I spend my hours far away from the beach, and when I think of medical supplies my first thought is hospitals, like most of us who play this mod.

If anything is ignorant here, it was you talking about everyone else not getting your meaning as if you're on another plane of enlightenment or something. Frankly, we get your idea, it's just..... bad.

[griffinz 2816]

I love you. :heart:

Yes' date=' people who group others up into a VERY general group while talking down about said group are very attractive.

Especially when they are ignorant of the topic at hand and assume it is an example of what they are talking down about, when it is actually the opposite.

[/quote']

How long have you been playing this game? As mentioned earlier, it's all a learn-from-your-mistakes experience.

Im on my 20-something character, and each character lasts longer than the previous. What you want is instant gratification. You wont get that.

The medical supplies spawn where you'd find medical supplies...around hospitals and in medical tents, or even military barracks.

Yes, to go and get them is a risk...but then, they are not a life-or-death necessity. Only food and water is, and you can thank your lucky stars the dev team has decided to make them abundant.

Medical supplies are a convenience. Just like the equipment at the military bases, they are not needed to survive, but you can risk your life attaining them.

As for shooting other players to get them...great, you do that. You can just as easily cooperate with them to go to the danger-zones, or simply just ask them if they have any to spare...it is a choice you have overlooked.

You are not applying real-world decision-making to your situation, you are simply looking for an easy-way-out solution that is usually found in casual games.

Griff'd.

[Ketsugo (DayZ) 1]

Has anyone suggested here to remove morphine and painkillers from new characters and have them spawn with just a makarov/ammo and a few bandages? It looks like there's an argument here over the wrong topic. If anything, it's not "waaah game's too hard for me change it" it's rebalancing the new character loadouts so that they're not made a target for medical supplies and the like. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe not.

[oktyabr 53]

I was actually offended by the way he tried to reinforce his argument on the premise that those on the beach were just helpless little lambs, new to the world, and that the big bad killer (who's afraid to *risk* a hospital visit or trading session with strangers) would be sadly taking advantage of them for meds or whatever.

The fact is if you are LUCKY that newly spawned survivor will be completely new to the game in which case you could probably just convince him to give them to you. In reality even experienced killers DIE in this game and guess what... some of them are pretty good with a Mak PM too ;)

I actually find it much more *rewarding* to take the *risk* and kill some over equipped bandit instead. He's likely got the meds I need and look! More STANAG clips and that tool kit I was looking for too!

[Otleaz 3]

How long have you been playing this game? As mentioned earlier' date=' it's all a learn-from-your-mistakes experience.

Im on my 20-something character, and each character lasts longer than the previous. What you want is instant gratification. You wont get that.

The medical supplies spawn where you'd find medical supplies...around hospitals and in medical tents, or even military barracks.

Yes, to go and get them is a risk...but then, they are not a life-or-death necessity. Only food and water is, and you can thank your lucky stars the dev team has decided to make them abundant.

Medical supplies are a convenience. Just like the equipment at the military bases, they are not needed to survive, but you can risk your life attaining them.

As for shooting other players to get them...great, you do that. You can just as easily cooperate with them to go to the danger-zones, or simply just ask them if they have any to spare...it is a choice you have overlooked.

You are not applying real-world decision-making to your situation, you are simply looking for an easy-way-out solution that is usually found in casual games.

Griff'd.

[/quote']

Are you trolling me? Are moderators allowed to troll? I cannot believe how much time I wasted arguing with you.

On the off chance you aren't trolling, I suggest you re-read the thread. I don't reiterate my point in every post, so you probably jumped to conclusions regarding my stance here based on one of the posts I expanded my point into. Either that, or your blatant elitism is projecting something that isn't there into your brain.

I was actually offended by the way he tried to reinforce his argument on the premise that those on the beach were just helpless little lambs' date=' new to the world, and that the big bad killer (who's afraid to *risk* a hospital visit or trading session with strangers) would be sadly taking advantage of them for meds or whatever.

[/quote']

Good for you. I'm not talking about personal stories here, though. I'm talking about game mechanics and balance. I was pretty clear about that, I thought.

Has anyone suggested here to remove morphine and painkillers from new characters and have them spawn with just a makarov/ammo and a few bandages? It looks like there's an argument here over the wrong topic. If anything' date=' it's not "waaah game's too hard for me change it" it's rebalancing the new character loadouts so that they're not made a target for medical supplies and the like. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe not.

[/quote']

EXACTLY! I am baffled at how these people are jumping to such conclusions when I have that in THE VERY FIRST POST.