Because Other Games are Fun: Change Inventory Before It's Too Late

[applejaxc 2500]

I've watched the devblogs, and dammit I want the game to come out as badly as the rest of you, but there's been contradiction between what has been said and what game features there will be pertaining to the inventory. The one that bugs the hell out of me, is this:

Rocket has said a few times that he wants loot to spawn in cupboards, in sinks, on walls, under tables, under beds, on shelves, and every other possible hiding nook so that players will not only feel immersed, but to make loot runs a challenge; the careful bird gets the last worm, 'eh?

BUT, in the pre-E3 (if I know my dates right) showcase, in which the dev had blue jeans, a striped shirt, and an Ak47, looting was very simple; he simply opened his inventory near a loot pile (not actually looking at and interacting with it), and by proximity (as he said), the items were displayed as lootable.

What's the challenge in hunting for things when I can essentially guess where I think loot will be and hit G? I like the idea of convenience, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of scrounging?

The reason the title includes, "Because other games are fun," is because I had this idea:

What if each item was unique ("loot piles" were done away with completely), and a Last of Us-style pickup system was employed?

You would hit grab while looking at something, and it'd randomly be added to your inventory (because in a rush, you aren't really worried about whether your ammo is in your jacket pocket or pants pocket), and you'd have to sort your inventory out later? Things would not be auto-added to the backpack (that would require purposely/intentionally adding it).

In this system, look would have to be seen and interacted with, and rushed players would need to find time to sort themselves out.

[mzltv 2281]

What's the challenge in hunting for things when I can essentially guess where I think loot will be and hit G? I like the idea of convenience, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of scrounging?

That's not how it works.

You need to be near the object, and have a clear line of sight with the object before you pick it up.

It's not as if you can walk to a point in the room, open the proximity inventory and just collect everything around you before even having seen it...

Edited June 19, 2013 by mzltv

[applejaxc 2500]

That's not how it works.

You need to be near the object, and have a clear line of sight with the object before you pick it up.

It's not as if you can walk to a point in the room, open the proximity inventory and just collect everything around you before even having seen it...

That's what the stream made it look like.

And how do you maintain LoS if you crouch and look down when you open your inventory, when the loot in question is on the fridge top or something? How do you get LoS under a bed without going prone?

[mzltv 2281]

And how do you maintain LoS if you crouch and look down when you open your inventory, when the loot in question is on the fridge top or something? How do you get LoS under a bed without going prone?

Ah right, I see what you mean now. I'm honestly not sure!

Maybe it will work on the basis that as long as you've had LoS with the item before you access your inventory, then you're okay.

But that's on the provision that you still have to crouch down every time you open your inventory, like ArmA...

I've always thought it was a bit of a strange/restrictive thing that every time I wanted to use a bandage, I had to crouch down to get into my inventory.. Don't see the harm with allowing access to inventory whilst prone/standing as well.

[badluckburt 974]

That's what the stream made it look like.

And how do you maintain LoS if you crouch and look down when you open your inventory, when the loot in question is on the fridge top or something? How do you get LoS under a bed without going prone?

It all depends on how they implement the mechanic. If the engine stores your line of sight the moment you press the key to open your inventory (before the animation starts) and uses that to determine what you can pick up, that problem's solved. As for the LoS under a bed, if they add a crouch animation where you move your head towards the ground so you can look under stuff there should be no problems getting them beans!

Edited June 19, 2013 by BadLuckBurt

[joe_mcentire 2074]

how about a pseudo-pseudo-code like:

the moment the player establishes line of sight with an object X

if objectX_is_in_LoS == 1 AND abs(location_objectX - location_player) <= visibility_distance THEN

objectX_detected = 1

end

..

if objectX_detected == 1 AND abs(location_objectX - location_player) <= reach_of_action THEN

show it in the inventory.

end

wow....i guess i can go program now a game! how much is cryengine?

edited

Edited June 19, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

OR, we could wait until we get a chance to see how it works first-hand, before suggesting that it be changed.

[mzltv 2281]

I hate it when code gets involved in a conversation - it usually means I can't participate any further :(

Edited June 19, 2013 by mzltv

[Mos1ey 6301]

I agree with the OP, having played it I think the proximity effect definitely needs to be toned down.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

OR, we could wait until we get a chance to see how it works first-hand, before suggesting that it be changed.

that would be far too easy....

I hate it when code gets involved in a conversation - it usually means I can't participate any further :(

WHAT?!! you realize what i did there? this is pseudo-pseudo-mspaint-code

[Guest]

I get what your saying but here are a few points of mine.

1. You no longer need to crouch to access inventory

2. IF you make lone of sight with something say under the table, and then get up to look behind you, upon re facing the table to object is lootable because you know where it is

3. Shouldn't we all wait to see what happens before we start asking for things to be changed. That's the reason I left bungie.net, to get away from people complaining on a product they haven't played yet.

[applejaxc 2500]

Ah right, I see what you mean now. I'm honestly not sure!

Maybe it will work on the basis that as long as you've had LoS with the item before you access your inventory, then you're okay.

But that's on the provision that you still have to crouch down every time you open your inventory, like ArmA...

I've always thought it was a bit of a strange/restrictive thing that every time I wanted to use a bandage, I had to crouch down to get into my inventory.. Don't see the harm with allowing access to inventory whilst prone/standing as well.

Alright, here's my 3rd argument:

If LoS is required once (presumably per server join, as it'd reset when you leave), then you could spin in a 360 around the room, lay down to do it again, then open you inventory and still have the proximity looting.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i don't need to see an item the exact time i want to grab it. it's enough to know where its vague location is.

when something roles under my couch and i cannot easily reach it, i first take a look and then try to reach under the bed without my head in the way. normally i get the item ;)

in my opinion it is always legit to give nice suggestions in form of "i would do it so and so..." moreover do we have an alpha-tester in our midst who has already confirmed slight shortcomings regarding that issue. ;)

we do not complain but we try to give suggestions for immersion's sake and in this special case try to prevent bad meta-gaming

Edited June 19, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[applejaxc 2500]

I get what your saying but here are a few points of mine.

1. You no longer need to crouch to access inventory

2. IF you make lone of sight with something say under the table, and then get up to look behind you, upon re facing the table to object is lootable because you know where it is

3. Shouldn't we all wait to see what happens before we start asking for things to be changed. That's the reason I left bungie.net, to get away from people complaining on a product they haven't played yet.

So you spin around a few times while laying down, and then open your inventory.

Proximity inventory definitely doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd code in, planning to rip it back out.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Alright, here's my 3rd argument:

If LoS is required once (presumably per server join, as it'd reset when you leave), then you could spin in a 360 around the room, lay down to do it again, then open you inventory and still have the proximity looting.

well...but irl, when being in a hurry...i guess i would exactly do so. look around and then grab as much as i can.

[applejaxc 2500]

well...but irl, when being in a hurry...i guess i would exactly do so. look around and then grab as much as i can.

But in real life, spinning in a circle doesn't tell you there's food hidden behind an empty box and an axe under the couch.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

But in real life, spinning in a circle doesn't tell you there's food hidden behind an empty box and an axe under the couch.

I share some of your concerns AJ. In fact it's probably one of my main concerns regarding the SA currently. People are worried about animations etc but for me it's WAY to early in development to start pulling those apart.

They've made great progress regarding the way loot now spawns (much more realistic and dynamic) and being able to open your inventory to "scan" the local area does seem to undo all of that hard work. I know the the intention is to make so that you WILL still have to search properly under beds etc and they aim to do this by using the LOS and vicinity mechanic.

It doesn't look like they've got it right yet and I'm crossing my fingers that they do. I'm a careful, patient player in DayZ and I want to be rewarded for taking the time to search areas properly whilst people in a hurry may miss valuable loot. It's heavily in development atm so it's probably too early to say they've failed yet. If it stays as is once the alpha goes public then I'm sure they will get a LOT of feedback asking for it to be sorted out so one way or another I think we will end up with the inventory working the way we want it to.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Fraggle

[Sutinen 635]

If they get the vicinity system to work well, it should be pretty useful since there wouldn't be "loot stashes" around. It annoys me when I accidentally drop a lot of items and then I find them all in separate "loot stashes", so I have to click "gear" or "take" on all of them, because they're not in the same pile.

[TacticalN29 89]

So you spin around a few times while laying down, and then open your inventory.

Proximity inventory definitely doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd code in, planning to rip it back out.

I don't think the proximity is that far away. I think (at least what it looked like from the E3 videos) that you have to be fairly close to actually have the item pop up when you open you inventory. Also if it's anything like ARMA III, you will be able to open your inventory when crouched, prone, or standing.

[applejaxc 2500]

I don't think the proximity is that far away. I think (at least what it looked like from the E3 videos) that you have to be fairly close to actually have the item pop up when you open you inventory. Also if it's anything like ARMA III, you will be able to open your inventory when crouched, prone, or standing.

Regardless of the range, they can't make it so you're got to stand right on top of the thing. Spamming your inventory key is going to do your looting for you.

[TacticalN29 89]

Regardless of the range, they can't make it so you're got to stand right on top of the thing. Spamming your inventory key is going to do your looting for you.

I say wait until we get to play it and then tell them if we don't like it.

[doodleisbrutal 33]

I like the idea of looking at something and maybe holding down a button to pick it up, it is a lot simpler, but maybe instead when you pick it up like that it just goes into your pocket and if you want it to go into your backpack you re arrange it later.

[applejaxc 2500]

I like the idea of looking at something and maybe holding down a button to pick it up, it is a lot simpler, but maybe instead when you pick it up like that it just goes into your pocket and if you want it to go into your backpack you re arrange it later.

That's about the last section of my post. Thanks for agreeing. :)