Actual Constructive Feedback for 1.7.7

[Tehmedic101 16]

First off, someone should put spell checker in the topic title section, I almost put conscrutive.

Onto why the thread was actually created.

Now before you respond to this thread, I want you to actually read through every point I have made, and not just complain that I'm making a thread and it has the words "Feedback" and "1.7.7"

Thanks.

The Constructive Feedback.

First I will talk about the most important part of the patch.

Player interaction.

While I believe that more difficult zombies would actually help with creating player interaction I feel that the infection buff has negated this.

What I mean is, people are shooting other players for antibiotics.

They're also shooting players because the player could be infected and they don't have antibiotics.

There is really no reason to team up, because one of you are going to get infected, and then you're both going to be infected.

More then one player also spawns more zombies in a town, which increases the threat of infection.

You also need more than one antibiotic if you team up. Due to the infection spreading.

New players

I want to emphasize this point more so than others.

DayZ already has a very high learning curve to playing the game, when the environment is more hostile than players I think that it may be just too much.

I feel as if someone hadn't specifically watched tons of youtube videos, or tutorials on how to play DayZ, and they started in 1.7.7 they would play it for 30 minutes and then decide that the game sucks, because it is too difficult to start with no prior knowledge.

I really want the DayZ community to thrive, and I don't want new players to be turned away because of too high of a learning curve.

I also don't want zombies to be a piece of cake, but I feel that the infection is a key player in determining whether or not it's too high or too low.

I really hope you can see from a new players perspective while reading this section, I feel that it is quite important.

The Infection

The infection is probably the only thing in this patch that really needs to be worked on.

I'm going to talk a little bit about authenticity, and realism.

While it's difficult to talk about realism in a zombie based game, it's quite easy to talk about authenticity.

The Zed infection, is NOT the same infection that players get.

This is clearly represented in the fact that no matter what happens to a survivor, he never turns into a zed.

This is also strengthened by the fact that before 1.7.7 the most likely way to get infected was by eating raw meat, or drinking water that had not been boiled.

If it were the same infection there would be no survivors.

However, that doesn't mean that survivors are immune to all infections.

Now onto what I think should be done to add authenticity.

I don't think infection should kill, at least most of the time. In most cases it would take a very severe infection or something weakening your immune system for an infection to kill you, especially at the rate at which it currently does. I also think that infections shouldn't last forever, as in most cases they don't in real life.

There are also problems with how you become infected. How often do you become infected from being punched? Almost never, unless the guy has ebola. Trust me, you don't want ebola.

* You could possibly limit when the blood stops going down, or you could give survivors a chance to fight off the infection.

* You could add a timer as to when an infection goes away, or you could make it random when an infection goes away.

* To be infected the zombies must break skin. Ie. more likely to become infected when bleeding.

* Increased chance to become infected when knocked out, due to zombies biting instead of smacking you.

Please read before you post

Please feel free to comment and state your opinions.

Please keep it logical, and not something, like "I like it and it should stay."

Back up your point of view, thanks.

Edit. Also I suggest looking at R4Z0r49's post on the Infection, and it's work in progress.

R4Z0R49 posted it below, but I was just making it easier to see.

http://dayzmod.com/f...ion-wip-update/

Edited June 15, 2013 by Tehmedic101

[r4z0r49 4761]

Infection WIP

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/139669-177-infection-wip-update/

[joe_mcentire 2074]

why does everyone need his own "feedback" thread? although i've given you beans and like the constructive approach. it is simply not necessary to make a new thread

Edited June 17, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[WBK 176]

With regards to player interaction, I see this as a frequent complaint from people who do not like the patch. But I just don't get it. Playing with another person makes both lives easier, period. Infection, while a huge part of the new patch, is only one aspect of survival. A second or third or fourth person is only going to help you in finding gear and weapons, and defending you and helping you survive. I feel trading will be a huge part of the new patch; I forsee people literally offering weapons in exchange for antibiotics. They're that important. However, I think that people are correlating infection with death. This is a survival game. You may not find AB's in the next 10 minutes, or even the next 2 hours. But you can eat food to replenish health. It is not a death knell. All infection does is separate the weak from the strong IMO.

Regardless of my mini-rant, I think you had a well-constructed post. I don't agree with your view, but it was calm and lacking in expletives! Beans for that, my good sir.

[Tehmedic101 16]

Edited the post.

If you have already posted, or viewed the thread please reread and edit your comments accordingly if you have the time.

I also have a feeling that I'm missing out on some key information that I was aware of earlier.

If you guys bring up good points hopefully I will remember them.

[rn_max 202]

Unfortunately it often seems necessary to start new topics when attempting reasonable discussion. Squabbling kids inevitably descend into a "who is more right" pissing contest and derail almost every topic in these forums at one time or another.

I think that people are stumbling for the right concept when explaining features that don't fit into their game experience or derail it, with realism and perhaps authenticity not quite fitting the bill.

The quality that most promotes immersion in a game is plausibility. With a reasonable mix of credibility, context and familiarity, just about anything is more likely to be accepted without question. The weather varies, there is a day/night cycle, the stars are navigable when visible, birds burst into flight when disturbed, the sound of the sea announces the coast, vehicle doors clunk on entry and exit ... and so on.

When something suspends belief, it treads a fine line in terms of acceptance in a game. Immersion disturbance is a subtle but profound crime, one which players can struggle to explain and unfortunately DayZ 1.7.7 is a serial offender.

The Infection -

A certain death timer with a frustratingly elusive remedy, but for the wrong reasons and linked to the other immersion breakers. However, this offence is being addressed, so the jury is out until the attempted fix is also.

The Infected -

Yes, the zeds. There is no problem with smart, aggressive AI enemies, until they also disconnect from what is plausible. Our shambling cousins are guilty on multiple counts of immersion breaking implausibility.

Spawning to within a few metres of players anywhere on the map, out of sight or in peripheral vision, and in numbers. Just how heavily populated was Chernarus, eh? Why wouldn't that zed have been there in that open area when I just looked at it from 20, no 30, no 50, no 100 metres away? Like many others, I suspect, I had no problem with the system of wilderness spawning in 1.7.6.1 This has gone too far.

Why does zed player detection bear no relation to the audio and visual warning indicators any more? Why are players being detected and chased when they use stealth methods and tiptoe around on one bar? This is a terrible disconnect in environmental feedback and is not challenging, but an implausible immersion breaker.

The difference? Challenge has a solution which bears reward. Sneaking by walking on soft materials and reducing visibility should be rewarded with passing undetected and the feedback should reflect the action.

Zeds are walking through buildings. Great, no problem with that. They are detecting players through buildings and rampaging in after them. Not so great ... wait ... another Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment. Another jarring disconnect from plausibility. So, players actually manage to sneak around despite not knowing if they are stealthy (hallelujah), but are then sensed inside buildings and rampaged upon. No jumping out of windows in this game.

Zeds uncannily zero in on players even when they don't detect them. Another clumsy and obvious game mechanic, which joins the queue to break immersion and unbalance the challenge and reward cycle. Evaded the zeds, but why bother? They've magically turned in just the right direction and are following en masse anyway.

Quite a few zeds are appearing on loot spawns and not moving, though not in an "I'm loitering" fashion, but more of an "I'm a bit broken and have forgotten to move" kind of way. However, they will often and suddenly remember their purpose and aggro, but again in no relation to stealth indicators.

The Loot -

I would suspect there are many who have no problem with what the new loot spawn system is trying to achieve in preventing "farming" or "cycling". Who also have no problem with less loot less often. However, what kills the goose is bizarre randomness. Why oh why would a supermarket be full of ammunition, but not have medical supplies? Why on earth would heaps of medical supplies be in a barn outside a village? Who the hell stocks their workshops with knives, soda pop and toilet roll? Why would bloody great hangars be empty and small sheds full of gear? There is not enough logical expectation to target scavenging and it simply doesn't add up. I'm all for a challenge with scavenging, but not for some drawn out, random Easter egg hunt.

The loot cycle itself may be intended to deter farming, which is a worthy goal, but it may well just encourage a longer farming cycle and increased server hopping by hard core players, especially after restarts. One thing it will do is pummel casual and time limited players who aren't first on the scene and don't have several hours to kill, trudging round in big lazy circles waiting for loot timers to reset. I would wager that quite a few of the 1,737,741 survivors have other priorities in their lives, than out-waiting everyone else to get a clean shot at the next loot cycle.

What has gone wrong in so many ways is not that 1.7.7 is too hard, but that it is difficult and annoying for illogical reasons that players cannot overcome by reasonable action.

These changes are implausible and break immersion, they suspend belief. Suddenly we can see the wires and the painted backdrops. It is ugly and it is not entertaining. Yes, that word "entertaining", sometimes related to fun, but not necessarily so and far more rewarding. This is what I suspect many are referring to when misguidedly using the word "fun".

Create challenge, by all means, but go that extra mile to ensure it is not clumsy, obvious or unbelievable ... or all that effort is unravelled along with everything that came before it.

Edited June 15, 2013 by RN_Max

[sarkasm0 109]

It feels just like vanilla dayz is no longer for casual players, want to get something? well, be ready to scavenge 5 times more.

Always enjoyed vanilla chernarus but right now I have nothing else to do but to start playing mods.

[methr1k2dop3 323]

Dayz isn't for the weak.

Only thing i had a problem with was the infection situation.

After they change it i will give 1.7.7 a 10/10.

Dangerous zombies and more scarce loot are great things in my book.

[sarkasm0 109]

Dayz isn't for the weak.

Only thing i had a problem with was the infection situation.

After they change it i will give 1.7.7 a 10/10.

Dangerous zombies and more scarce loot are great things in my book.

"Dayz isn't for the weak" I didn't knew I am weak because I don't like to spend my free time searching for almost non existent loot or "trying" to avoid broken zeds.

You know, If I had the time to actually play this game a little more, maybe I could enjoy this update, but I can't, spending DAYS searching for some food and drinks to head north just to be infected in the middle of the fu****g night by some random zed while checking the map at the woods is not what I call challenging and fun.

[superkush 10]

"Dayz isn't for the weak" I didn't knew I am weak because I don't like to spend my free time searching for almost non existent loot or "trying" to avoid broken zeds.

You know, If I had the time to actually play this game a little more, maybe I could enjoy this update, but I can't, spending DAYS searching for some food and drinks to head north just to be infected in the middle of the fu****g night by some random zed while checking the map at the woods is not what I call challenging and fun.

then don't play?

[methr1k2dop3 323]

"Dayz isn't for the weak" I didn't knew I am weak because I don't like to spend my free time searching for almost non existent loot or "trying" to avoid broken zeds.

You know, If I had the time to actually play this game a little more, maybe I could enjoy this update, but I can't, spending DAYS searching for some food and drinks to head north just to be infected in the middle of the fu****g night by some random zed while checking the map at the woods is not what I call challenging and fun.

I don't know what to tell you other than look around before you check your map.

Have antibiotics on you if possible.

Should be main focus actually with the infection rate so high.

They are re working it.

What i mean when i say Dayz isn't for the weak

Its difficult for casuals to pick up and play.

not really directed at you i was just being silly.

Hope you have better luck

Edited June 15, 2013 by methr1k2dop3

[Tehmedic101 16]

Guys please stay on topic.

[sarkasm0 109]

then don't play?

I'm not even going to bother to explain something to you

I don't know what to tell you other than look around before you check your map.

Have antibiotics on you if possible.

Should be main focus actually with the infection rate so high.

They are re working it.

What i mean when i say Dayz isn't for the weak

Its difficult for casuals to pick up and play.

not really directed at you i was just being silly.

Hope you have better luck

Thank you for your advice, I'm just annoyed becuase even if I had little time I could manage to get something before, but right now it just seems like endless scavenge. I'll wait for the infection fix and give it a try again. without infection it should be a hell of a lot easier.

Guys please stay on topic.

Sorry, I'll cut it off now.

Edited June 16, 2013 by sarkasm0

[methr1k2dop3 323]

I'm not even going to other to explain something to you

Thank you for your advice, I'm just annoyed becuase even if I had little time I could manage to get something before, but right now it just seems like endless scavenge. I'll wait for the infection fix and give it a try again. without infection it should be a hell of a lot easier.

Sorry, I'll cut it off now.

i feel you they are fixing it tho

[WBK 176]

Just a small complaint here. It seems that in the current patch you can't move after entering the bandage animation. I got attacked by a zed, ran into a remote area and shot him. So after quickly checking the area, I started applying a bandage. Then from behind a tree another zed (viral) started attacking me. Frantically I tried tapping 'W', to no avail. I had to finish getting bandaged up, by which time he had taken me down to about 2000 blood. I then started shooting at him wildly; my blurred vision and lack of breath absolutely destroying my aim - which I love by the way, it feels so authentic. But he kept hitting me and killed me.

I don't mind about a zed appearing out of nowhere; I should've scouted better. And I don't mind not being able to shoot him when I'm nearly dead. Both those things make me believe I'm there and that the stakes - my life - are so high that I can't afford to make one mistake, which is what the game is supposed to do. But it was incredibly frustrating not being able to exit the bandage animation after being attacked, which I could do easily (almost too easily) in the last patch. Please fix this.

EDIT: I don't know if it's a universal problem, or a server problem. Has anyone else experienced this?

Edited June 16, 2013 by WBK

[ThePilgrim101 2]

I agree with you. I seriously don't understand why people don't work together. If every time I got on direct comms and said, "I'm friendly, dude," the other player said, "me too! =D" and we went on an epic quest for survival, that would be really cool.

The problem is that's not how it happens. That's fine: DayZ is a sandbox and it shouldn't always happen like that, but a new player is pretty much screwed for a good couple hours, especially while they're learning the intricacies of the game. That simple inference is what people are really worried about; they don't want the game to become impossible to access to new players.

Personally, I don't think the infection is what is going to be what upsets games. I've never been infected, and I personally wouldn't mind to get infected so I could experience that. However, I do agree that DayZ currently has the same problem as MineCraft: it seriously rewards explanation, but a brand-new player is *never* going to have a chance because there are so many nuances and intricacies that are unspoken and - unless you google it - you don't really know about. True, DayZ has a read me, but something more prominent might help.

tl;dr = Infection is fine. Game just needs more teaching to it.

[Saethkept 134]

On one hand developer feedback and feature adjustment vis-à-vis community discussion and criticism is an interesting and good thing; on the other, there are often times when I wish the community developers would release a new feature and stick to it - despite critique from we of the peanut gallery. Bugs are one thing, but actual game play mechanics and new features should be given some room to breath and get their sea legs before community response forces them to be modified (often watered down) or removed.

Think of recent excellent games such as 'Dishonored'. I am quite happy that such a game arrived on my PC "as is" versus "as it is temporarily" based on feedback from customers. DayZ has matured nicely over the past year; perhaps it is time to commit to a vision of what it will be rather than what everyone but the developers thinks it should be like.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Saethkept

[kumando 199]

Dayz was never meant to be easy or to be a game for the masses for that you have cod and bf,

[Tehmedic101 16]

Dayz was never meant to be easy or to be a game for the masses for that you have cod and bf,

Could you please back up your point of view.

Please don't just place opinions.

[superkush 10]

I'm not even going to bother to explain something to you

no please do explain to me why you need to play there are 100s of thousands of games why would you continue to play a game if its such a hassle for you. If I don't like a game or the direction of a game I simply stop and don't complain on forums

[Tehmedic101 16]

No, please don't if you guys are going to infect this thread like 12 year old's do it in Private Messages.

Thank you.

Not trying to be mean, but please stop derailing the thread.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Tehmedic101

[superkush 10]

Sorry I wasn't trying to be an ass just wanted to know why he'd put himself through the hassle if he didn't like it so I apologize to him and op and wont post anymore unless relevant

[sarkasm0 109]

no please do explain to me why you need to play there are 100s of thousands of games why would you continue to play a game if its such a hassle for you. If I don't like a game or the direction of a game I simply stop and don't complain on forums

I'm not going to explain you anything, I already stated my points, if you differ my opionion, well, please write yours.

And stop looking for personal conflict with others.

[WBK 176]

I think the temperature function needs to be fixed. Right now it's like the old zombies; no one pays attention to it. Lower the chance of infection from low temperature, but add a shiver when cold. If someone is in the rain for more than 10 minutes, they should get blue temperature, and for more than 20 minutes they should get wet clothes which take 20 minutes of sunlight to dry off. Something to that effect.

[sarkasm0 109]

Playing on a night server used to be pretty hard due to the temperature dropping very fast, but right now it's kinda strange, even if its night your temperature is always bright red and the only way to make it drop is either, swim, a prolonged rain or stand still for quite a while.