PKing is rewarded, friendly play is punished

[Bluegobln 0]

Right now you're encouraging PKing because the murder count is easier to increase than the bandit kills. Why is this?

A single bandit kill equates to a single bandit kill point. But that bandit may have murdered more than one player.

In order to become a bandit you must commit at LEAST 1 murder. So the system at best is dead even (assuming each bandit has only 1 murder) and at worst VASTLY unbalanced in rewarding murderers (some bandits may have 5, 10, even 20 or more murders yet still only be worth one bandit kill).

We are limited in hunting these players because they can play wherever they wish. Revenge is nearly impossible due to the way new character spawning works and the size of the map (huge of course). Because of this they have a survival advantage, this type of play is actually encouraged by your current design choices. Malicious players are completely incognito, cannot be tracked, are rewarded with loot off the body of any and all players they encounter (assuming they do not encounter a fellow bandit).

Teams of malicious players can speak using voice chat outside of the game which allows them to remain completely stealthy. Solo PKers don't chat at all anyway. Friendly players who randomly encounter other players in the game simply MUST chat with one another in order to communicate their needs and intentions, and so are literally forced to give away their condition, location, etc.. This just adds to the huge advantage they already have.

----

Suggestion: I propose an "avenger" count.

When you kill a bandit, you get an avenger kill for EVERY SINGLE MURDER THEY COMMITTED IN THAT LIFE.

I do not think avenger kills should be allowed if you have 1 or more murders, and getting a single murder should eliminate your avenger kill count as well.

This means that hunting PK's, especially really nasty ones, is very rewarding for the "friendly" players. Becoming a bandit will also make you a really juicy target after a time, especially if we have visible stats on the forums and can brag about top "scores" etc..

You're the one that built this "faction" system into the game by including it at all. If you want a game with choice I suggest you remove the advantages for PKers, even perhaps punish them for repeatedly killing innocents. If you want everyone to be PKers, then remove the advantages of being friendly toward other players (such as blood bags and bandit kills, just make everything count as "murder"), and IMO remove the ability to communicate as well.

If you would prefer everyone to be friendly... well I already own Left 4 Dead and it's pretty fun... I don't know if I'd enjoy this game being ALL player vs zombie.

[Bat9th 0]

I love the game and know this is a work in progress. That said, Chernarus doesn't seem as friendly as it used to be among other players.

A few weeks ago I would run into friendlies. Now I rarely ever see one.

[Slyguy65 499]

ok i skimmed no lie...and i hope i am wrong but are you seriously trying to tell me you think the numbers at the top right mean shit? lol

[tilt (DayZ) 0]

"Dude, I just got 40 avenger points!"

"No one cares, but did you get any beans?"

[Bluegobln 0]

I don't think the numbers "mean shit". I like the numbers. I think getting a high "score" is actually the real true "end game" for this game. That said, it is incredibly difficult to get there when the requirement for getting said score is simply PKing new players all day long with no difficulty because you're well equipped.

The problem is the imbalance between the light and dark factions of the world. The murderers are rewarded for their play style, rewarded by getting a higher number on the scoreboard, and there is almost zero way to punish them other than the loss of their already more easily attained gear and points. So they just do it again.

Think about it this way: would you rather go about gathering supplies, or just use one bullet to the head of someone who's gathered supplies for an hour and a half already?

Which one takes longer to do? Kinda an obvious answer. You have the easier gameplay by killing the poor bastard and stealing his hard earned supplies.

Next: would you rather "collect" bandit kills, one for every bandit you kill, or collect murders, one for every player you kill period (except other bandits of course)?

Another obvious answer. The murders are easier to get, you get them for killing newbs too, and only ever DON'T get them when you kill another PKer...

--- the incentives are heavily one way, and it is causing a hugely ruinous method of play. After an incident that occurred today I will flat out kill any and all players I encounter, period, because I honest to god am sick of dying by being friendly.

If I am friendly and they're not, I die.

If I am friendly and they are, we both die to some PK's that hear us talking.

Screw that. Why not just save myself the trouble and stop being the feed at the bottom, and start bottom feeding myself. Tired of being that guy that spends 2 hours gathering supplies for one PK to get for free in 10 seconds by killing me.

This game needs some help for the friendly player in all of us. I know most of you aren't malicious, but you HAVE to be to survive in this game... it's horrible. Let's just encourage a bit more friendly balance in the game and we can all play how we want without any way being better than the other.

[septuscap 42]

The only thing I use those #'s for is to know if that guy I shot from 100m with my pistol is actually dead or not.

As far as I'm concerned they should be thrown out completely (and probably will be considering it's called the "debug monitor" right now)

With regards to pickup groups being forced to communicate in-game and "give away their position," I think you can easily ask the guy to join your ventrilo can you not? Sure, rocket could use the in-game radio item and you could have your group communicate on a unique frequency, but I feel like this should be lower on the priority list since you can easily hop onto teamspeak, ventrilo, mumble, whatever.

[osiriszoran 33]

blizzard entertainment is good at holding the players hand.

[Cyric (DayZ) 254]

This thread is ridiculous. Are you seriously asking for some sort of advanced K/D tracking for a sandbox game that the numbers make nearly no difference? This is seriously serious...? :huh:

[RachetSmurf 2]

Right now you're encouraging PKing because the murder count is easier to increase than the bandit kills. Why is this?

A single bandit kill equates to a single bandit kill point. But that bandit may have murdered more than one player.

In order to become a bandit you must commit at LEAST 1 murder. So the system at best is dead even (assuming each bandit has only 1 murder) and at worst VASTLY unbalanced in rewarding murderers (some bandits may have 5' date=' 10, even 20 or more murders yet still only be worth one bandit kill).

We are limited in hunting these players because they can play wherever they wish. Revenge is nearly impossible due to the way new character spawning works and the size of the map (huge of course). Because of this they have a survival advantage, this type of play is actually encouraged by your current design choices. Malicious players are completely incognito, cannot be tracked, are rewarded with loot off the body of any and all players they encounter (assuming they do not encounter a fellow bandit).

Teams of malicious players can speak using voice chat outside of the game which allows them to remain completely stealthy. Solo PKers don't chat at all anyway. Friendly players who randomly encounter other players in the game simply MUST chat with one another in order to communicate their needs and intentions, and so are literally forced to give away their condition, location, etc.. This just adds to the huge advantage they already have.

----

Suggestion: I propose an "avenger" count.

When you kill a bandit, you get an avenger kill for EVERY SINGLE MURDER THEY COMMITTED IN THAT LIFE.

I do not think avenger kills should be allowed if you have 1 or more murders, and getting a single murder should eliminate your avenger kill count as well.

This means that hunting PK's, especially really nasty ones, is very rewarding for the "friendly" players. Becoming a bandit will also make you a really juicy target after a time, especially if we have visible stats on the forums and can brag about top "scores" etc..

You're the one that built this "faction" system into the game by including it at all. If you want a game with choice I suggest you remove the advantages for PKers, even perhaps punish them for repeatedly killing innocents. If you want everyone to be PKers, then remove the advantages of being friendly toward other players (such as blood bags and bandit kills, just make everything count as "murder"), and IMO remove the ability to communicate as well.

If you would prefer everyone to be friendly... well I already own Left 4 Dead and it's pretty fun... I don't know if I'd enjoy this game being ALL player vs zombie.

[/quote']

The Alpha is pretty young still.. this kind of functionality screams of way down the line. Right now murders/bandit kills are just numbers. Humanity really only matters for the early stage of the heart beat feature. People don't trust each other.. and that's pretty normal when you're playing with a bunch of strangers and used to games like COD,BF3 and whatever other mainstream games are out there. It will eventually get better.. good habit is to make friends outside of the game and meet up.

[Dekatris 0]

true fact:

i play this game to kill players in a zombie apocalypse sandbox setting.

i don't care when other people kill me, i get more mad when some retarded zombie aggros me through a wall than when a player actually makes me dead.

[xBlackCat 1]

This thread reminds me of spinal tap's "This one goes to 11".

Even if you care about the numbers in the corner, the fact that one number can potentially raise faster than the other doesn't matter. Its apples and oranges. Its like claiming that a job would be more rewarding if you got paid in pennies rather than dollars.

[Hawk24 94]

Suggestion: I propose an "avenger" count.

When you kill a bandit, you get an avenger kill for EVERY SINGLE MURDER THEY COMMITTED IN THAT LIFE.

That changes what exactly - apart from a number on your statistics?

[xBlackCat 1]

Suggestion: I propose an "avenger" count.

When you kill a bandit' date=' you get an avenger kill for EVERY SINGLE MURDER THEY COMMITTED IN THAT LIFE.[/quote']

That changes what exactly - apart from a number on your statistics?

Well, in theory, it would "reward" you more for killing skilled bandits, because a bandit with 50 kills is likely much more skilled than a bandit with only one. Why this would matter is beyond me.

[Hawk24 94]

Why this would matter is beyond me.

I guess people still haven't figured out why bandits are actually doing what they do

It's not about numbers, it's about the excitement of hunting another player and the possibly glorious reward afterwards

And now OP wants to counter banditry by....changing leaderboard numbers?

Lolwut?

[Refried 14]

applying concepts like 'score' and 'endgame' to dayz simply does not work in a game where you can have just as much excitement newly spawned as you can with a veteran well-geared character

the thought that a scoring system could somehow change how the majority of players act is painful to read

[Dingus (DayZ) 429]

I don't think a new statistic tracked in the debug monitor is going to have any effect on whether or not some guy pushes lead into my domepiece.

As it is now, there are bad people and you deal with it long enough to see yourself become a bad person.

Hopefully you got people you play with on skype, ts, or vent.

re "endgame" - Endgame in Day Z is when you die.

[nahholmes 0]

Right now you're encouraging PKing because the murder count is easier to increase than the bandit kills. Why is this?

A single bandit kill equates to a single bandit kill point. But that bandit may have murdered more than one player.

In order to become a bandit you must commit at LEAST 1 murder. So the system at best is dead even (assuming each bandit has only 1 murder) and at worst VASTLY unbalanced in rewarding murderers (some bandits may have 5' date=' 10, even 20 or more murders yet still only be worth one bandit kill).

We are limited in hunting these players because they can play wherever they wish. Revenge is nearly impossible due to the way new character spawning works and the size of the map (huge of course). Because of this they have a survival advantage, this type of play is actually encouraged by your current design choices. Malicious players are completely incognito, cannot be tracked, are rewarded with loot off the body of any and all players they encounter (assuming they do not encounter a fellow bandit).

Teams of malicious players can speak using voice chat outside of the game which allows them to remain completely stealthy. Solo PKers don't chat at all anyway. Friendly players who randomly encounter other players in the game simply MUST chat with one another in order to communicate their needs and intentions, and so are literally forced to give away their condition, location, etc.. This just adds to the huge advantage they already have.

----

Suggestion: I propose an "avenger" count.

When you kill a bandit, you get an avenger kill for EVERY SINGLE MURDER THEY COMMITTED IN THAT LIFE.

I do not think avenger kills should be allowed if you have 1 or more murders, and getting a single murder should eliminate your avenger kill count as well.

This means that hunting PK's, especially really nasty ones, is very rewarding for the "friendly" players. Becoming a bandit will also make you a really juicy target after a time, especially if we have visible stats on the forums and can brag about top "scores" etc..

You're the one that built this "faction" system into the game by including it at all. If you want a game with choice I suggest you remove the advantages for PKers, even perhaps punish them for repeatedly killing innocents. If you want everyone to be PKers, then remove the advantages of being friendly toward other players (such as blood bags and bandit kills, just make everything count as "murder"), and IMO remove the ability to communicate as well.

If you would prefer everyone to be friendly... well I already own Left 4 Dead and it's pretty fun... I don't know if I'd enjoy this game being ALL player vs zombie.

[/quote']

Yeah the leader board is a bad idea, tell me something I don't know. At the very least they should make the statistics something that actually matters. Example, remove murder and bandit kill "scores" instead when you kill someone you get "points" equal to the number of people they have killed. Hunting new players with no gun to defend themselves becomes worthless for score hounds and players who are killing the defenseless players become the targets. Suddenly it makes more sense to creep up on those NWAF snipers and shoot them in the back if you are a power player only concerned about some bytes on a website to tell you how cool you are. Changes like that would make the scoreboard more interesting but in reality I will still think it's a bad idea no matter what they do with it.

[__redruM 7]

PKing would be much easier to address with game mechanics. Stats are almost meaningless. For example, each PK makes you 10% more visable to other players. 10 kills and you actually glow :)

[theOrangeHorror 0]

While I can agree with you that the bandits can potentially have an easier time than survivors, having a scoring system of any kind would be meaningless and defeat the purpose of Day Z. The point is survival, not racking up kills or points. Anyone killing a bandit is rewarded with everything that bandit has gathered anyways. Even more so, if it happened to be a veteran bandit. So why have points that mean nothing when killing bandits rewards you with what the bandits had, better equipping yourself and helping you prolong your survival.

[erocker 87]

I'd just like to see bandit morphing come back. Though, have it so that say 3 murders of "civilians" will cause the morph.

I liked the fact that bandits were identifiable previously. It was exciting to spot one, hope they didn't spot you and go from there. As far as the statistics, which is what this thread is about I guess, I could care less.

~DrRocker

[revenoff 1]

wait wait wait wait

this thread is about points? YOU WANT MORE POINTS?!?!

ffs, i thought people stopped caring about points after the pacman-era

[magus_taliesin@hotmail.com 0]

Title is flawed survival game =/= rewards or punishment. Object is not to win. PKing is punished by people willing to kill PKers on sight. Friendly play is good because easier to get stuff. Either way, there is no winning when the objective is surviving.