Sanity: Turning DayZ from a FFA shooter to a survival game.

[IIBloodXLustII 0]

Removing guns did part of this, made killing newbies basically pointless, but that still doesn't deter from the fact that the game as it is right now is basically a FFA shooter with zombies in the way.

My suggestion is, basically force people to band together. Even if they are bandits.

Basically, if you murder someone your sanity goes down. If it gets to low, your character goes nuts and kills himself. The only way to regain sanity is by being near other players for extended periods of time.

This way, organized bandit groups still can do their thing, but players that are just playing to kill other players to just be assholes won't get very far.

Also bring back a way to recognize bandits at very short range, that way pure survival players can tell if someone has the reputation of being a murderer, but only when you are face to face with them. Maybe have "Bandit" show next to their name or something, but only when you are face to face.

This doesn't remove the player killings all together, but should cut it by quite a bit. In all the time I've played this game, I've died to zombies twice, players every other time.

[kloust! 0]

what is this ... farcry 3?

[Insaniac (DayZ) 235]

I cannot describe how much I dislike this, it's a survival game where players choose how to survive, killing other players is just a way to stay alive and they shouldn't be penalised for it.

[IIBloodXLustII 0]

Well, there needs to be some extreme perk to sticking with other players, because right now if you see someone, you basically have to either run away or kill them.

I dunno about you guys, but if this actually happened, I doubt there would be nearly as much murdering going on in the real world.

Maybe having the player die because of insanity is to much, but perhaps other penalties that would be more realistic, like shaking a lot and always being in panic mode, which causes you to attract zombies much easier.

[XzB3A57zX 1]

There is a perk to teaming up with another player: There are two of you. Distrust is irrelevant, you still have a second gun, melee weapon, or body in the way of zombies and bandits. The incentive is there. It's just most people are so paranoid they KOS or sprint away.

[invalidangles 0]

forcing people to stick together narrows the scope of this game i feel, why deter from the lone wolf persona that some people like to play on their character? i also don't understand how killing someone else is meant to effect my sanity people throughout the world seem to do it on a daily basis without any physiological or mental penalty be it; murder, civil unrest or war, not forgetting capital punishment.

Well' date=' there needs to be some extreme perk to sticking with other players, because right now if you see someone, you basically have to either run away or kill them.

I dunno about you guys, but if this actually happened, I doubt there would be nearly as much murdering going on in the real world.

Maybe having the player die because of insanity is to much, but perhaps other penalties that would be more realistic, like shaking a lot and always being in panic mode, which causes you to attract zombies much easier.

[/quote']

there currently is a massive perk to sticking with other people... you got more gun, carry space and can have defined rolls for each individual player and its especially useful when in voice comms.

[-Cdn-Chard 96]

In my view we don't need any mechanics in the game to force or incent people to work together. Players should be able to do it or don't do it as they see fit.

Effective communication is the key. In other types of ARMA2 gamemodes, like my personal favorite, Advance-And-Secure (AAS), teammates not on comms (ie. Teamspeak) although well meaning, usually just go at it alone. Once you can talk to your temmates, then groups naturally form; coordinated attacks and defence becomes much easier and productive and more complex tasks can be contemplated.

If players want to work together, they should get on comms together. Simple. Teamspeak has public servers that can be used. Trying to coordinate a group of players not on comms is like trying to herd cats.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Any of you know a band called clawfinger?

I think this piece of one of their songs is suitable :D

"Ignore all your feelings just go all the way

If you don't then death is the price you have to pay

This ain't peace and love no man this is war

Don't even dare to ask what you're fighting for

Just search and destroy never question a lie

You don't want to bite the bullet boy you don't want to die

Don't try to tell me that you couldn't kill a man

That's a load of fucking bullshit boy I know you can"

[Zwans 1]

Why, for f*cks sake, do i see so many posts trying to "fix" bandits...it's not a problem to be fixed it's a game factor te be taken into account, it's part of the game. People can kill you and grab your shit, they can, they will, they are gonna. It's not a bug or something to be patched. Bandits do not need to be recognizable by anything more then a hearbeat, if that. They wouldn't be in real life. If anything, bandits will always be a bigger reason for people to gang up then anything you change.

[deepfried 95]

it's a survival game where players choose how to survive' date='

[/quote']

But its not is it? because 7/10 people choose to shoot on sight or outright manhunt for the hell of it, its actually a sandbox deathmatch game, with a minor loot element and some zed in the way.

If we analyse the gameplay of the majority we see pvp and not much else, pvp for the sake of pvp. If we want this to be a survival game then mechanics will have to be introduced to change that.

[Opitz 0]

Zwans, I agree, but if you talk about real life... in real life people are not shooting other people just because they are running away from them in distance of 100+ meters...

Because it is just a game, people are doing more evil things than they would commit in real life. Many players acts like total psychos... Just because they can. They dont have their real face, name, surname, anything. It is anonymous killing and only risk is to get "killed" and RESPAWN.

It is same like that scientific experiment where they selected some people to make harm to the "object" and they did, because guy who told them so was looking like smart guy and they didn't personally know the "object". It is proven that when you give people anonymous way to hurt other, they will, and will not feel anything wrong... But it is also documented that many murderers have very tough time to cope with their evil deeds... only psychopats dont feel anything. so why to make a game which rewards people for acting like pure psychos.. ok, virtual...

[Heme (DayZ) 0]

it's a survival game where players choose how to survive' date='

[/quote']

But its not is it? because 7/10 people choose to shoot on sight or outright manhunt for the hell of it, its actually a sandbox deathmatch game, with a minor loot element and some zed in the way.

If we analyse the gameplay of the majority we see pvp and not much else, pvp for the sake of pvp. If we want this to be a survival game then mechanics will have to be introduced to change that.

^ This.

This topic has been beaten to death million times so it won't mind another lousy kick from me (bored waiting for food to cook).

Nobody complains about normal bandits, it's legitimate style and easily justified. You pro-bandits don't get this but always go mental that bandits shouldn't be nerfed, and they shouldn't. The problem is the aforementioned FFA-sandboxers who spawn, find gun, find player, shoot the player no matter if he's no threat and there's gadzillion zombies nearby. They don't bother much with gear or loot but for a weapon. They play solely to spawn, run around and kill other players and when they die they respawn and repeat. This has absolutely nothing to do with survival, I assume we can all agree on that much?

Now I know rocket has stated he won't implement artificial punishments or anything and that's good, it'd only hurt the real bandits who are legit element of the game. It's these random FFA'ers that really ruin the experience for many, especially for those unlucky enough to meet them several times during short period of time.

Edit: okay, my point was that no, as understandable as your suggestion is it wouldn't work. FFA'ers don't live long enough for this effect to manifest and it'd only hurt the solo bandits. Not that I could suggest any better mechanic, any idea to treat this would unavoidably be very artificial and more trouble than it's worth. Just hope they'll get bored eventually, also stay away from the noobshore.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

In real life people are not shooting other people just because they are running away from them in distance of 100+ meters...

Because it is just a game' date=' people are doing more evil things than they would commit in real life. Many players acts like total psychos... Just because they can. They dont have their real face, name, surname, anything. It is anonymous killing and only risk is to get "killed" and RESPAWN.[/quote']

In real life you have law to protect you. In the absense of laws there is no identity, there is no obligation to keep yourself identifyable or to use a specific name. Killing is essentially anonymous, it remains between you and your prey.

You probably know the saying "dead men tell no tales". There still are places in the world where the life of a man is worth nothing and where peoples will kill you for the most frivolous reasons.

it's a survival game where players choose how to survive' date='

[/quote']

But its not is it? because 7/10 people choose to shoot on sight or outright manhunt for the hell of it, its actually a sandbox deathmatch game, with a minor loot element and some zed in the way.

If we analyse the gameplay of the majority we see pvp and not much else, pvp for the sake of pvp. If we want this to be a survival game then mechanics will have to be introduced to change that.

^ This.

This topic has been beaten to death million times so it won't mind another lousy kick from me (bored waiting for food to cook).

Nobody complains about normal bandits, it's legitimate style and easily justified. You pro-bandits don't get this but always go mental that bandits shouldn't be nerfed, and they shouldn't. The problem is the aforementioned FFA-sandboxers who spawn, find gun, find player, shoot the player no matter if he's no threat and there's gadzillion zombies nearby. They don't bother much with gear or loot but for a weapon. They play solely to spawn, run around and kill other players and when they die they respawn and repeat. This has absolutely nothing to do with survival, I assume we can all agree on that much?

Now I know rocket has stated he won't implement artificial punishments or anything and that's good, it'd only hurt the real bandits who are legit element of the game. It's this random FFA'ers that really ruin the experience for many, especially for those unlucky enough to meet them several times during short period of time.

There is no reasonable way to judge the "motivation" of a player to kill another solely through a piece of code. It's the same issue encountered on gmod "RP" servers, where half the time when someone get killed they yell and moan how it was unjustified and/or against the rules. We can't reasonably police this.

Incentives can be put, but i believe rocket stated before that in his "vision" our actions as a community will determinate the game we play.

[blazingbrandon 2]

and their is an extreme perk for sticking with others, it offers security and more kills as you can team up and watch each others back it just about trust.

maybe a party/group system where you can invite players that are only sttod next to you, making friendly fire impossible?

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

it's a survival game where players choose how to survive' date='

[/quote']

But its not is it? because 7/10 people choose to shoot on sight or outright manhunt for the hell of it, its actually a sandbox deathmatch game, with a minor loot element and some zed in the way.

If we analyse the gameplay of the majority we see pvp and not much else, pvp for the sake of pvp. If we want this to be a survival game then mechanics will have to be introduced to change that.

They shoot on sight because it's their best bet of survival in a game where you can shoot someone dead at 300 meters without a scope. A dead player is one thing you don't have to worry about.

Until we eventually have more to lose from dying than just our gear, most players will fight to the death rather than surrender. And until we have means of surrendering, most players will shoot on sight.

[Heme (DayZ) 0]

They shoot on sight because it's their best bet of survival in a game where you can shoot someone dead at 300 meters without a scope. A dead player is one thing you don't have to worry about.

Until we eventually have more to lose from dying than just our gear' date=' most players will fight to the death rather than surrender. And until we have means of surrendering, most players will shoot on sight.

[/quote']

Well said. But if you spot your assailant you can usually join the dots as for their motive. If they are just running around wildly in town drawing a horde of zombies behind them and only stopping occasionally to pop another player who happens upon them, armed or not and considers the short mauling by zeds a fair price you can pretty much put em into the FFA'er group.

It's really obvious sometimes, but certainly less common than ppl here would have you believe. It's not even big majority but still big enough minority to gnaw at the overall experience.

[macnana 0]

WHY ARE YOU CRYING ABOUT BANDITS???? It's a fucking survival game for CHRIST'S SAKE. There are always going to be people who will shoot you for food. If I would really need morphine and I saw a random person running across the road I wouldn't hesitate to shoot straight off to survive myself. I'd rather survive myself than sacrifice myself for someone else unless he's a very close friend.

[Srellian 0]

They shoot on sight because it's their best bet of survival

http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=15698

"We all know that there is leaderboard for murders. We all want to be in that leaderboard"

:rolleyes:

[LastShenanigan 8]

I stopped reading at "force people to". It's a good thing no one has ever suggested this before or people might get aggravated. :D

[Powermolch 3]

Roaming around in small groups is far more fun for me than alone. Nobody needs to force anybody to do something. 2 or 3 People in a group have more fun, are more capable of guarding each other or at least save the dead body of one teammember of beeing looted by strangers. Often got my life saved by friends: Got shot beeing bleeding to death? - No thanks God you have ateammate with an Epipen and/o a Bandage and Bloodtransfusion.

And Group vs Group Shootouts and Gunfights are far funnier.

So, yes i like roaming with small groups of friends or clanmates but that doesnt stop me to shoot at you.

Its not only a FFA Shooter - its not only a Survival Game. For me its a FFA Shooter Survival Game but mostly more of a Teamdeathmatch Survival Game. You can do what you want, talk, help, kill, loot - BUT You always have to survive.

[Swag (DayZ) 0]

Bro..forcing players to team up or suicide is not cool.

[Opitz 0]

WHY ARE YOU CRYING ABOUT BANDITS???? It's a fucking survival game for CHRIST'S SAKE. There are always going to be people who will shoot you for food. If I would really need morphine and I saw a random person running across the road I wouldn't hesitate to shoot straight off to survive myself. I'd rather survive myself than sacrifice myself for someone else unless he's a very close friend.

Well you have shown us, that the cause of murders or crime is not the absence of law or collapse of state. There are many factors at first like age, gender, education, religion etc...

But if someone want some punishment for bandits or compensation for victims, he thinks he acts as member of majority, so he is trying to define what is crime (here to shoot a survivor). The main problem in DayZ is who is there to say what is crime?

There must be some group of people with enough power to be able to enforce their laws. Without it, it is not possible and we are saying it is murder, because in our real world it is murder. There is something which is called "natural law", mainly based on christianity, which says that to murder someone else makes harm not only to victim but to the whole society or world. And such harm should be punished, because punishment makes risk taken by offenders quite higher. But punishment is not enough. There must be also some kind of detection. Who will detect crimes in the world, where there is no resources to pay such people to detect and convince criminals...

So, IMHO, our bandits are crossing so called "natural law", but it is more on moral level and as I said we are bringing our morals from our IRL to this game, where there is no moral at all. (Not in this stage of total collapse of society).

So what I say is this: Shooting survivors is bad, because I believe in it. So I should not shoot other survivors. If someone thinks differently he is free to harm other survivors and get something from it. His rewards is low, but risk is even lower. And having in mind the background of this game there is no other rational approach than to accept such crimes which happen all the time and nothing can be done about it.

And I don't believe Rocket will spend half of his life to make some engine which will simulate some kind of very weak government. In real life in such situation the group of strong and brave would try to create and run such government and enforce some law, but in DayZ game we have no such options. We are just weak survivors eating each other, before zeds eats us all :)

[Sabata (DayZ) 1]

So what I say is this: Shooting survivors is bad, because I believe in it. So I should not shoot other survivors. If someone thinks differently he is free to harm other survivors and get something from it. His rewards is low, but risk is even lower. And having in mind the background of this game there is no other rational approach than to accept such crimes which happen all the time and nothing can be done about it.

Well, or everyone can accept this is a game and there's always ways to make most people happy if you really want to.

[Opitz 0]

So what I say is this: Shooting survivors is bad' date=' because I believe in it. So I should not shoot other survivors. If someone thinks differently he is free to harm other survivors and get something from it. His rewards is low, but risk is even lower. And having in mind the background of this game there is no other rational approach than to accept such crimes which happen all the time and nothing can be done about it. [/quote']

Well, or everyone can accept this is a game and there's always ways to make most people happy if you really want to.

OK, so elaborate on this: "there's always ways to make most people happy if you really want to" - HOW?

I tried to find the way, but there is no way. It will not punish only bandits, but whole game and at the end all players...

[Riska 0]

OK' date=' so elaborate on this: "there's always ways to make most people happy if you really want to" - HOW?

I tried to find the way, but there is no way. It will not punish only bandits, but whole game and at the end all players...

[/quote']

What you're basically saying is the only way you'll be happy is if people stop shooting you and bandits are punished. There is no other scenario in which you will be happy with the game. Really? If you can't find enjoyment out of it at all unless under those conditions then you should play something else.

I'm not saying that to be a jerk or to belittle you or anything, I just think that in this context you are playing the wrong game. I'm having a blast and I wouldn't consider myself a bandit.