Dr. Goner 661 Posted May 17, 2013 This is a great article describing Ludonarrative Dissonance in gaming. DayZ is briefly mentioned by the author as he explains that true immersion would be a huge pain in the ass.It's an intelligent assessment of "immersive" games being made today. How much realism do we really want? How mindlessly willing are we to accept completely unrealistic situations and scenarios by simply saying "this is more accurate than anything I've previously experienced"? The Conan videos are great at pointing this out.Anyway, if you need a lot of pictures and explosions with your readin' books, don't click the link. Those of you looking for a little intellectual stimulation... enjoy.http://www.platformnation.com/2013/04/22/when-familiarity-backfires/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 17, 2013 This is a great article describing Ludonarrative Dissonance in gaming. DayZ is briefly mentioned by the author as he explains that true immersion would be a huge pain in the ass.It's an intelligent assessment of "immersive" games being made today. How much realism do we really want? How mindlessly willing are we to accept completely unrealistic situations and scenarios by simply saying "this is more accurate than anything I've previously experienced"? The Conan videos are great at pointing this out.Anyway, if you need a lot of pictures and explosions with your readin' books, don't click the link. Those of you looking for a little intellectual stimulation... enjoy.http://www.platformn...rity-backfires/I should probably know what Ludonarrative Dissonance is, but I have no clue. Can you explain pl0x? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SeaMan (DayZ) 31 Posted May 17, 2013 Ludonarrative dissonance is when your actions in game are the opposite or go against the games storyline or characters personality.To put it in DayZ terms:Guy A:You friendly?Guy B:Yeah totally!Guy B then shoots Guy A in the face.Ok so it doesnt really work with DayZ,but you get the point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416 Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Well, that was unexpected.I get what the dude's saying but, being that videogames are an escapist medium, it wouldn't be particularly enjoyable if, for example, they simply replicated real-life functionality for everything.In fact, it would sort of defeat the purpose.Pedantic < FunGamer's willing suspension of disbelief goes up to 11.@ SeaMan, DayZ, being an authentic, immersive survival-sim where a bandage can insta-heal bullet holes might just be considered an example of "ludonarrative dissonance" ;) EDIT:When reading the section on "ludonarrative interference", did anyone else think of Snake's unlimited ammo bandanna in Metal Gear Solid 2? Edited May 17, 2013 by Chabowski 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Goner 661 Posted May 17, 2013 Ludonarrative dissonance is when your actions in game are the opposite or go against the games storyline or characters personality.To put it in DayZ terms:Guy A:You friendly?Guy B:Yeah totally!Guy B then shoots Guy A in the face.Ok so it doesnt really work with DayZ,but you get the point.Well, it can also be environmental aspects of the game that break immersion or go against the narrative set by the game. For example in DayZ: Oh my god, I'm living in a Zombie apocalypse... oh, there's an AS50, wait, there's another one. Oh, hold on, if I take this one and come back in five minutes there'll be another one here and I think I'll hop in that chopper and go for a spin even though, there's not indication that I was a chopper pilot when I washed up on the beach.Before ya'll get mad, I love DayZ, I'm just pointing out examples of Ludonarrative Dissonance in the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Goner 661 Posted May 17, 2013 Well, that was unexpected.I get what the dude's saying but, being that videogames are an escapist medium, it wouldn't be particularly enjoyable if, for example, they simply replicated real-life functionality for everything.In fact, it would sort of defeat the purpose.Pedantic < FunGamer's willing suspension of disbelief goes up to 11.@ SeaMan, DayZ, being an authentic, immersive survival-sim where a bandage can insta-heal bullet holes might just be considered an example of "ludonarrative dissonance" ;)While I understand what you're saying, your argument is a slippery slope. By your logic why would we have moved on from Pac-Man? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416 Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) That was just an example.I'm not saying it would be bad to attempt to represent aspects of reality in games, just that if you start taking it too far towards realism, folks would be better off just going outside. :PI could play "cooking simulator 2014", or I could go to the kitchen and make a lasagne.Works of fiction, in all media, create their own settings. The thing with games is, if you're sticking to your story too strictly, it doesn't leave much opportunity for freedom and interactivity.It makes sense to gloss over certain elements in favour of an entertaining experience.EDIT: In lieu of "cooking simulator", take DayZ.I want to watch this game become closer to life than anything we've seen before, but if we have to sleep in real-time, it'll have gone too far. Edited May 17, 2013 by Chabowski 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Goner 661 Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) That was just an example.I'm not saying it would be bad to attempt to represent aspects of reality in games, just that if you start taking it too far towards realism, folks would be better off just going outside. :PI could play "cooking simulator 2014", or I could go to the kitchen and make a lasagne.Works of fiction, in all media, create their own settings. The thing with games is, if you're sticking to your story too strictly, it doesn't leave much opportunity for freedom and interactivity.It makes sense to gloss over certain elements in favour of an entertaining experience.True, you have my beans. I like the idea of something completely realistic other than social repercussions being removed (no going to prison or actual death ;) ). What would a game set in reality look like? How long before all of us are brutal criminals? How many would go to work and pay bills in the game of Reality? How many would cowboy up at the local precinct and create a warlord kingdom? I guess I see the ultimate game as very very realistic with some added threat (or not) and some slight elements of reality removed (social contracts). Edited May 17, 2013 by DrGonzo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416 Posted May 17, 2013 It would be interesting to witness, that's for sure.Honestly, I don't expect gamers, given essentially reality without responsibility, would create anything near utopia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-Gews- 7443 Posted May 17, 2013 I find one of the biggest problems with "realism" is that the people playing are all English-speaking gamers.Not sure how to solve that one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Goner 661 Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) I find one of the biggest problems with "realism" is that the people playing are all English-speaking gamers.Not sure how to solve that one...Ugh... I say immerse yourself in the gaming culture of the people who speak the languages you want to hear. I've heard plenty of foreign language speakers while playing online games. I think people generally gravitate towards groups or servers where people speak their language. Especially in DayZ, I've found myself on servers filled with people speaking Polish. What is the exact problem you have with that being part of the "realism"? Every big game that comes out now has at least four or five different languages to choose from. Edited May 17, 2013 by DrGonzo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-Gews- 7443 Posted May 17, 2013 What is the exact problem you have with that being part of the "realism"? Every big game that comes out now has at least four or five different languages to choose from.Me speak English.My point was it's hard to have total "immersive realism" because you're not surviving with a bunch of ex-military Chernarussians, you're playing a game with a bunch of gamers. Some games do better in that regard, some worse... I haven't really felt the "authentic" feeling from DayZ or any other games for quite a while now.Simulators obviously seem to do better. To me, detailed flight sims seem by far the most immersive and real-feeling type of game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Goner 661 Posted May 19, 2013 I guess the question then becomes how real do we want it to be? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wazza 274 Posted May 19, 2013 Surrogates anyone.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites