The Potential Problematic Future of DayZ Server Hosting

[Ilumination 0]

I am going to speak for the MAJORITY of server owners in this thread, despite the possible repercussions of doing so. This is an issue that needs to be addressed, and this thread should be brought straight to the attention of the Staff as soon as possible.

I predict a dim future for the current DayZ servers, and I also predict an eventual drop-off of the number of servers currently available to the entire DayZ community.

Why?:

Two major factors: The severe hosting restrictions and cost of hosting. I'll start with the cost of hosting. Hive doesn't support any Linux platform, so a CHEAPER hosting solution is almost impossible for dedicated servers. So server owners that rent dedicated's are forced paying that extra 20-50 dollars per month for Windows Licensing. However, this wouldn't be as much as a problem if the hosting restrictions weren't so strict.

What I mean by this is, is as server owners, we barely have ANY -REAL- control over our servers. I can understand keeping banning and kicking as reasonable, as it always should be. But I see threads of kids crying about being banned from a server for something they probably DID DO, but because the server owner can't provide 110 percent solid proof, the server owner gets the shaft. Not all of us run FRAPS 24/7, or can snap perfect screenshots of an offender. I do believe that server owners deserve a bit more credibility in our decisions of kicking and banning, especially with the following point in mind:

Some of our servers cater to individual gaming communities, such as mine. My gaming community happens to make a decent amount of money, enough surplus to fund a DayZ server. But, how long will this last when server owners are completely unallowed to conduct any in-game perks in exchange for donations? The number of servers currently available is quite high, yes, but there is still no incentive to get our players to donate towards operating costs, other than relying on their "good of heart." The only appeal we can offer our players as of now is a stable, reliable server to play on. Well, if you know what you're doing (and most servers owners do), this is not a hard feat to accomplish. So again, there is no way to produce a unique environment that would give players the incentive to donate towards server uptime.

2+2 = 4. Owners renting out Windows Dedicated's are more likely spending 100+ a month (If you're not spending this much, wait until you're required to host MySQL on the same box as well, as they eventually plan on localizing Databases), but have virtually no method of generating money to help pay for it. This is eventually going to cause many servers to forcefully let their server die due to lack of funding.

Besides a couple of staff members that run servers for the DayZ community, DayZ Devs and Staff are currently relying on established and inspiring server owners to produce and maintain more and more places for players to play. This in itself is okay, but it's not okay in this case because again, we have no way of generating donations for our servers. With this logic, we are being told, "Thanks for hosting a server at 100 percent your pocket expense with no way to recuperate that expense." Yeah. Again. This is only going to last so long before server owners get fed up with it, or just simply run out of money to run their server.

I really hope these flaws are heavily considered by the DayZ Staff and current hosting policies and compatibility are revised with more consideration for server owners.

To the rest of the DayZ Community: My thread is not in attempt to start fights with anyone. This is purely my educated guess/opinion as to what is going to happen with the current conditions server owners must endure. Please do not flame my thread or personally insult me. I welcome all positive/negative CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATION. This being said, thank you for taking the time to read my thread and I look forward to feedback.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

+9000000

*Golf Clap*

Absolutely.

As a server owner I feel like I have to constantly defend myself from the community here for every little move I make. And if I make the wrong move, "I run a shithole server."

The only answer is a community server run by the devs...but even then when they do something like ban someone....they're going to be accused of running a shithole server.

I think that the devs have set a dangerous precedent in which the general disrespect of server admins is the norm...and they have placed all the power into the players' hands.

So if someone screws up, the players' can come running and screaming to mommy and daddy to make it all right.

There needs to be a PRIVATE server admin forum here, where admins and devs can communicate....outside of the IRC and Google Group.

Addendum: It also seems to me like there is a general dev disrespect of server hosters in general. I mean, Adam writes about "entitled little buddies and their servers" in another thread. I get this general contempt for the very people that are hosting their mod for them, and I find it distasteful.

[Vipeax 318]

So you'd want:

- Passworded servers.

- Locked servers.

- Kick for whatever you didn't fraps, as they can't proof they got kicked for being killed by the admin.

- Can't proof the admin was the one disconnecting as they, no messages show up in the log as they are disabled.

- Mass language kicking because the host is French, thus French is allowed but for example Russian is not.

You call people out for being kids that cry etc, yet I've seen oh so many server hosters that broke the rules, including kicking and even banning me for killing them. I'm sure that's not kiddy at all!

Are the current rules promoting hosting? Probably not, but out of all issues I honestly don't see how the opposite will make it any better.

Oh, MySQL isn't all that expensive in this case.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

So you'd want:

- Passworded servers.

- Locked servers.

- Kick for whatever you didn't fraps' date=' as they can't proof they got kicked for being killed by the admin.

- Can't proof the admin was the one disconnecting as they, no messages show up in the log as they are disabled.

You call people out for being kids that cry etc, yet I've seen oh so many server hosters that broke the rules, including kicking and even banning me for killing them. I'm sure that's not kiddy at all!

[/quote']

I didn't say that at all. I said that I've never seen a dev team so contemptuous of server admins and guys that shell out cash to host their mod in my life.

Banning and kicking for killing is bullshit, I never said it wasn't.

I said that the general contempt for server admins...and the automatically siding with the players for everything is counter-productive.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

KickStarter. Official servers. Problem solved.

I would donate $150 on the spot today if I knew it was going to reliable, professional and trustworthy hosting.

A lot of great server admins out there, doing a lot for the community and putting their money up to support the game and community. DayZ wouldn't exist without their efforts.

I only wish it were possible to more reliable differentiate them from the 15-year-old-borrowed-dad's-credit-card server hosts who kick people to make room for their clan mates, reboot the server to duplicate swathes of items or return vehicles to their last save point, revert death or just plain old screw people out of loot, curse on public channels, ban for arbitrary reasons and generally act like a bunch of spoiled shitsnacks all under the guise of "I pay the bills you play by my rules. Oh and please donate."

It's an unsustainable model anyway. 75,000 a day - fine. 250,000? 400,000? Eventually the goodwill of server owners will run dry.

[chrispowdrill@yahoo.co.uk 10]

I totally agree with a private section for server admins

[Vipeax 318]

I didn't say that at all. I said that I've never seen a dev team so contemptuous of server admins and guys that shell out cash to host their mod in my life.

We appreciate hosters a lot for their efforts' date=' really everyone does. The problem is that in a world like this, being able to walk around anywhere without having to worry about abuse is rather important...

Banning and kicking for killing is bullshit, I never said it wasn't.

I know neither of you said it is, but how does a player proof an admin kicked him for that?

[Ilumination 0]

I'm not saying that the existence of poor-conduct server owners don't exist. But I am saying that not all server owners are as you described. However, my thread never said anything about allowing Passworded Servers or Locked Servers. However, I do believe that we should ATLEAST be able to conduct reserved slots. And that's just "atleast." That would atleast get the ball rolling with some sort of incentive to donate.

And my usage of "kids" was not meant to be derogatory, so I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. Anyhow, at mercy of you and other staff members, Server Admins need more control or in turn, we will eventually have no incentive to host our servers. The level of intelligence needed to make a game like this is very reputable, I am sure that you and the rest of the staff team could devise a management plan that would allow server owners more control, in-game options to generate donations, and give server owners a chance to establish their credibility in cases of kicking and banning.

(This response intended for Vip')

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

I didn't say that at all. I said that I've never seen a dev team so contemptuous of server admins and guys that shell out cash to host their mod in my life.

We appreciate hosters a lot for their efforts' date=' really everyone does. The problem is that in a world like this, being able to walk around anywhere without having to worry about abuse is rather important...

Banning and kicking for killing is bullshit, I never said it wasn't.

I know neither of you said it is, but how does a player proof an admin kicked him for that?

I totally agree Vipeax. I think that the admins and devs need to communicate better and come up with a better system of checks and balances. To that end, I think the first step should be a private forum on here for servers to communicate with devs without being bombarded by posts from players being abusive, trolling...etc.

I also think that the devs should look into some type of server recording system. Nothing fancy...just like an admin action recorder...unless something like that exists already. If it does I am ignorant of it.

There are things we can do. I love this mod, and I'm happy to shell out what I am to keep two servers up so everyone can enjoy it.

But I think that communication between admins and the dev team needs to be made easier.

[Vipeax 318]

Many issues will dissapear once this becomes more "commercial", once the project has a (stable) fund of resources, we can also expand the technical resources. Many people keep saying they paid X-money and then get bugs etc, but yet everything so far is paid out of our own pocket (website doesn't eat as much though, I feel bad for the filemirrors at times).

How do you want to implement reserve-slots though?

Only having official-servers would fix a lot of the issues, but then you'd be looking at a subscription system to cover the costs, even with "just" 100.000 active players you'd still be looking at 2000 servers, say you'd host 3 per physical server and pay about 100 per server --> That's $66666.67/month and then we personally (and mainly Rocket) haven't seen a penny (and by then you'd also be looking at a legal team to play etc). So you'd need at least a fee of $3/month to even get it running, probably more like $5 to $8 to really achiev something.

[phisher34 12]

I rent a server for our gaming community as well, and most importantly I think it gives us a place to call home. We know without asking people in TS where to find the rest of the group. To me this is the biggest benefit.

Server control in terms of kicking and banning is secondary (I've only kicked 1 player in the month or so we have been running).

I don't feel locking or passwording, even reserve slots, benefits anyone. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be getting kicked from a server right before finding a vehicle, or running across the tarmac, or looting the barracks, or whatever - so a clan member could join.

The other option is a central server where you have no control over it. This really is new ground and can't be considered a traditional dedicated server like you would find in CS, Battlefield, or regular ARMA.

[fighter139 191]

I'd be happy with just being able to kick to make room for Donators.

But, people will abuse it and we will lose the ability, so that's not going to happen.

A little more on-topic: Your post is excellent. It pretty much echos my thoughts on hosting.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

Many issues will dissapear once this becomes more "commercial"' date=' once the project has a (stable) fund of resources, we can also expand the technical resources. Many people keep saying they paid X-money and then get bugs etc, but yet everything so far is paid out of our own pocket (website doesn't eat as much though, I feel bad for the filemirrors at times).

How do you want to implement reserve-slots though?

[/quote']

The same way most other games do. Each server has a max of 15 or so reserve slots...and once the name comes in the server recognizes that this person has priority over other players in the server....and the server removes the person with the highest ping/lowest score...however you guys wanna do it.

[fighter139 191]

Perhaps a script that:

1) Randomly selects a player not on the Donator list.

2) Gives him a 2 minute warning that he is about to be removed to make room for a Donator.

3) Kicks after 2 minutes.

But, I digress. That is only a small part of what this thread is about.

[phisher34 12]

I am definitely against reserve slots. We have at times 15 players from our gaming community on a server. This can mean several group members are constantly trying to get in.

But a public player should not be punished by being kicked out of the game. This isn't like other games where they can just rejoin and spawn back at base. Getting kicked randomly can severely impact the players life depending on where they were or what they were doing.

[Vipeax 318]

At that point you can still be ruining stuff:

Person is in a vehicle, person was about to kill someone, about to loot someone, is in the open and could very well be shot when hopping in a new server, about to.....

I also edited my earlier post, but I will repeat it as many won't read it now:

Only having official-servers would fix a lot of the issues, but then you'd be looking at a subscription system to cover the costs, even with "just" 100.000 active players you'd still be looking at 2000 servers, say you'd host 3 per physical server and pay about 100 per server --> That's $66666.67/month and then we personally (and mainly Rocket) haven't seen a penny (and by then you'd also be looking at a legal team to play etc). So you'd need at least a fee of $3/month to even get it running, probably more like $5 to $8 to really achiev something.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

At that point you can still be ruining stuff:

Person is in a vehicle' date=' person was about to kill someone, about to loot someone, is in the open and could very well be shot when hopping in a new server, about to.....

I also edited my earlier post, but I will repeat it as many won't read it now:

Only having official-servers would fix a lot of the issues, but then you'd be looking at a subscription system to cover the costs, even with "just" 100.000 active players you'd still be looking at 2000 servers, say you'd host 3 per physical server and pay about 100 per server --> That's $66666.67/month and then we personally (and mainly Rocket) haven't seen a penny (and by then you'd also be looking at a legal team to play etc). So you'd need at least a fee of $3/month to even get it running, probably more like $5 to $8 to really achiev something.

[/quote']

I would gladly pay 15 to 20 a month to play this game.

Most other games charge a monthly fee around this cost anyway...so it wouldn't be a hardship for me.

Also, I see your point about reserve slots.

But to me reserve slots aren't the problem. I am willing to wait to get into my server. I suspect most other admins are willing to as well...unless they really need in to admin stuff.

I don't kick for my members. I've made that known before.

My main issue is there needs to be a simpler avenue for devs and admins to communicate about issues without player interference and trolling.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Only having official-servers would fix a lot of the issues' date=' but then you'd be looking at a subscription system to cover the costs[/quote']

That's fine. Subscription system + microtransactions for aesthetic, non-gameplay items like hats, tattoos, shades, clan armbands, etc. I think the "If this were a real game" thread demonstrated plenty of community support for both of these models, and if they would suffice to establish a bank of official servers whose hardware would be reliable, whose version would always be up to date, which would be managed by experienced professionals and moderated/admin'd by mature, reasonable adults who apply the rules with consistency it would more than worth every single penny. This is the way forward for DayZ in my opinion. Private servers work for now, but I don't see them as a long term solution.

[Ardoetia 0]

I would gladly pay 5 dollars to have stable servers controlled by the development teams. Where they would have more overview over the situations and have more control over who's cheating.

The concept of developer owned servers is brilliant, even for 5 bucks. It will be a better experience for all of us that plays the game. They would update as they add a new update, have more stable and controllable logs to overlook for updates and fixes. This would most likely increase the value of the time you are using on this mod. Of which would be a better experience for everyone. The thing with paying 5 bucks is that people want results, and I will stand on a limb and say that you would have alot more progress with dedicated servers where you have full control.

So overall, this is easily worth it. I think that would be the best for everyone.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

I would gladly pay 5 dollars to have stable servers controlled by the development teams. Where they would have more overview over the situations and have more control over who's cheating.

The concept of developer owned servers is brilliant' date=' even for 5 bucks. It will be a better experience for all of us that plays the game. They would update as they add a new update, have more stable and controllable logs to overlook for updates and fixes. This would most likely increase the value of the time you are using on this mod. Of which would be a better experience for everyone. The thing with paying 5 bucks is that people want results, and I will stand on a limb and say that you would have alot more progress with dedicated servers where you have full control.

So overall, this is easily worth it. I think that would be the best for everyone.

[/quote']

Agreed.

I do think it's time the dev team look into centrally controlled servers. I know that many many many many many of us would put money into a kickstarter/paypal to make this happen right now.

[Ilumination 0]

I can agree with this centralized server concept. If there is no other way to grant server owners more control without an efficient method of controlling the possible abuse, then centralized servers are the way to go. The database is currently centralized, so it's already half-way there. Instead of working towards localizing these databases, perhaps there should be a turnaround and work towards centralized servers via monthly subscriptions. I agree with this good idea.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

I can agree with this centralized server concept. If there is no other way to grant server owners more control without an efficient method of controlling the possible abuse' date=' then centralized servers are the way to go. The database is currently centralized, so it's already half-way there. Instead of working towards localizing these databases, perhaps there should be a turnaround and work towards centralized servers via monthly subscriptions. I agree with this good idea.

[/quote']

Right. And if you charge 15 to 20 a month per player, you're making a profit which could go towards more help/better tools to develop this mod into something substantial.

[SupWithThat 2]

I've been sitting on the fence for the last two weeks about taking the plunge and buying my own server hosting package and starting up a 60 slot server.

In all honesty, the only logical path I can see in my instance is to wait until the mod is further into its development cycle and certain issues have come and gone. To me, as an outsider to this whole problem, I think that generally speaking there is an attitude of contempt towards server hosts/admins - an attitude which is further propagated by public displays vs. the hosts by certain individuals.

There are a lot of people who run a tight ship, their servers are a beacon for the standards the rest should strive to achieve both in stability and quality of service. The only thing they can expect in return for this service to the mod and its community, however, is an endless tide of shit.

These people are figureheads of gaming communities that they have established off of their own backs and out of their own pockets. In the spirit of keeping this mod free, alive and playable - they have put their time into hosting an environment for us to play in. Now I'm not saying they're acting utterly selflessly in doing so, sure everyone wants a home for their clan/community where they have the power to enforce upon any infractions they witness - but it needs to be remembered that they're doing a great service to the development of this mod at expense to themselves.

I'd like to see some sort of system whereby you can qualify for 'partnership' status within the DayZ development team. Once done - you can reserve the right to operate as a premium server whereby you may accept donations towards the running costs of the server in exchange for reserved slots (to a maximum % of the full load of your server) or whatever other benefits could be offered.

It seems fair to me that those who serve the Dev team faithfully at their own cost and continue to do so without problems should be able to apply and to and be vetted by the DayZ team for this status.

Thats my two cents.

[Vipeax 318]

But the moment you start asking money, you need a stable game where people don't lose their gear half the time, updates are constantly being rolled out etc.

The future looks bright, but for now... you know :/.

Also, every post in this section is based on my personal POV, not speaking in any way as for what the plans are for the future when it comes to DayZ.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

But the moment you start asking money' date=' you need a stable game where people don't lose their gear half the time, updates are constantly being rolled out etc.

The future looks bright, but for now... you know :/.

Also, every post in this section is based on my personal POV, not speaking in any way as for what the plans are for the future when it comes to DayZ.

[/quote']

I think the majority of us understand what alpha means, and even in the game's current state I would shell out a monthly payment just to see it continue to grow.

I think most of us would do that. I mean, the amount of goodwill towards Rocket for doing this is staggering to say the least, so even if there are bugs...people will continue to pay to make sure this project continues to grow and expand into something awesome.

I mean, at the end of the day...people shell out MILLIONS for Call of Duty and other titles. And you have garnered almost 3/4 of the current population of those games, with an old engine and a mod that is barely stable at times.

But people keep coming back for more.

You know why? The devs listen to the players. The devs talk to the players. The devs care about the players.

That's why this mod is so successful. The players feel like they have a part in its growth.

I'll gladly pay out of pocket, I do already to host servers for you guys.