Heartbeating is almost like wallhack

[klytuko 0]

Yea, as you might know, Im a bandit with really low humanity, and everyone can hear me in radius of 20m and people can scan through walls and buildings and can hear where I go or prone or stay still etc. So I just want to be equal to other people and this should be fixed so you cannot scan through objects. What do you think guys?

[RECO (DayZ) 2]

nah keep it the same. Your new hate for the QQ will drive your bandit passion ^^

[vanrosemont 26]

Agreed. it's an audio bandit skin. needs to go. if only i heard a heartbeat for every asshole i meet rl. would make life a lot easier.

[zeeb 6]

I think this is an excellent way of getting rid of mass pk.. 8-)

[Snort (DayZ) 340]

The people that disagree with this are fools.

It's a flaw and needs to be fixed. I'm not even a bandit and I think that this happening is just retarded on so many levels.

I think this is an excellent way of getting rid of mass pk.. 8-)

So basically you want to remove a play-style that you don't endorse?

What about other people that prefer to play like that?

You need bandits in this game' date=' that's a part of it. PVP is a core part of Day Z and trying to get rid of bandits by making their play-style bugged is just a horrible idea in general.

nah keep it the same. Your new hate for the QQ will drive your bandit passion ^^

You need to be hit in the forehead with a hammer.

[sgtsnug 26]

I haven't yet tested this mechanic as I'm naturally a good guy and rarely endanger myself in bandit territories. But from the sounds of it...yea this isn't a fair mechanic, it's like having a 'Dick' sensor, if someone is hidden from sight you shouldn't even know they are there.

[joikd 25]

I thought that in order to hear the heartbeat, you had to be both close & looking directly at the person. Maybe the LOS part hasn't been added yet?

[Vipeax 318]

Im a bandit with really low humanity

-25.000 isn't all that bad really, keep killing more people!

Jokes aside, I personally never really had issues with it so far (about to hit -400k), I never get near cities, unless it's the real last option possible and with the noise of cars the heartbeat aint a lifechanger at that point, but if it actually works through walls I think it will need a raycast orientated trigger (like LoS) so you can't hear it through walls...

[vanrosemont 26]

I was killed yesterday, days of crawling coming to an end. found my body... nothing was taken, had a dmr, 5 mags all the kit etc etc. Just a useless kill for this guy. But that is the way it is. I don't want his options nerfed. I know why I got killed, I got reckless.. I die, I learn, I adapt.

The amount of whiners who want to destroy other peoples playstyles and options because it doesnt suit them or because they get killed too much (suck at this game) is astounding.

[Krole 0]

I dont know about you all, but the heart beat works both ways on my end. I can hear bandits and survivors,,,,maybe you should look at the pro's and less at the con's and give it a proper test before you QQ about what you want. This is a Alpha TEST. not the full game yet.

Which means your suppose to give it all you can to test it, and then give constructive thought about it. Not QQ, or cry, or be hatefull to anyone about it.

I see alot of people saying what they want, Bottom Dime is its Dean's (Rocket) idea, he and the other dev's are working together to give us what he started, and Our jobs are to play the crap out of it and then give constructive thoughts on our findings. Thats Alpha and beta testing for you.

[Snort (DayZ) 340]

I was killed yesterday' date=' days of crawling coming to an end. found my body... nothing was taken, had a dmr, 5 mags all the kit etc etc. Just a useless kill for this guy. But that is the way it is. I don't want his options nerfed. I know why I got killed, I got reckless.. I die, I learn, I adapt.

The amount of whiners who want to destroy other peoples playstyles and options because it doesnt suit them or because they get killed too much (suck at this game) is astounding.

[/quote']

This.

I'd lick this man all over if I had the chance.

[logan23 118]

Is there a YouTube video showing thus issue of heart beat through walls or the heartbeak mechanic in use.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

this heart beat thing is silly. Bandits should be able to socialize too, to forum bandit groups and what not... but who's going to socialize with someone that they magically know is a murder.

If you are a interviewer for a job, and the person who came in was a murderer... You don't have some kind of spider senses that tell you that unless he was in prison and had to put it on his resume.

the most you would get is a guilty look. and you wouldn't be able to tie that to murder, forgetting his kids birthday or what not.

the spider sense is the stupidest thing that came from 1.7.0

P.s. I'm not a bandit, I just like the thrill of the unkown witch is a bit part of this game and this feature takes away from this.

[-=seany=- 65]

Maybe being able to scan through walls is a bit much, but I like the heart beat idea for now. There needs to be a negative to becoming a bandit. Some cost for being a murderer. If there is not, no one will give a second thought as to who they shoot. Using real life examples of not knowing who a "dick" is, or who is a "murderer in an interview" is silly. It's a game. In real life people have morals and remorse and empathy and fear of being put in prison, so there are more nice people than good people. In a game you have none of these things, and therefore no care of who you murder as it has no consequence. Having a negative to becoming a bandit is needed.

[Deuzerre 64]

I prefer small visual clues to this "wallhack". A small hard to see but still present thing. Or make it so we can only hear the sound when it's possible to see the source;

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Maybe being able to scan through walls is a bit much' date=' but I like the heart beat idea for now. There needs to be a negative to becoming a bandit. Some cost for being a murderer. If there is not, no one will give a second thought as to who they shoot. Using real life examples of not knowing who a "dick" is, or who is a "murderer in an interview" is silly. It's a game. In real life people have morals and remorse and empathy and fear of being put in prison, so there are more nice people than good people. In a game you have none of these things, and therefore no care of who you murder as it has no consequence. Having a negative to becoming a bandit is needed.

[/quote']

there shouldn't be a negative, and there was any kind of negative, it should be real life emotions provoked by ingame content.

why can't real life morals, remorse, empathy and fear be pushed towards the game, instead of some artificial 6th sense.

the game should provide the content, that provokes real life emotions. It shouldn't provide artificial emotions as a punishments.

if the game was completely AI control you could say the game has none of these emotions, but it's not, players are controlled by humans, and humans have emotions.

[logan23 118]

Until i see a video(s) showing this in action where you can use the heartbeat mechanic through walls, I'm going to toss it up to people just don't want others to know that they kill players.

If you can use it through walls, then yes it should be tweaked so you can't.

What the heart beat emulates the person reading another person's body language/ listen to you gut.

Everyone including Bandits should feel fear due to their actions.

Survivors feel fear in trusting someone.

Bandit's feel fear in killing players.

[Never 237]

I think this is an excellent way of getting rid of mass pk.. 8-)

Really?

Its an excellent way of encouraging it.

Because of course, your going to Kill on Sight when you hear the big bad bandits heartbeat aren't you? So know your a PlayerKiller.

Also the 'bandit' was going to shoot you in the face for no reason before, you've just given him a reason to shoot you, again, and again.

[logan23 118]

Maybe being able to scan through walls is a bit much' date=' but I like the heart beat idea for now. There needs to be a negative to becoming a bandit. Some cost for being a murderer. If there is not, no one will give a second thought as to who they shoot. Using real life examples of not knowing who a "dick" is, or who is a "murderer in an interview" is silly. It's a game. In real life people have morals and remorse and empathy and fear of being put in prison, so there are more nice people than good people. In a game you have none of these things, and therefore no care of who you murder as it has no consequence. Having a negative to becoming a bandit is needed.

[/quote']

there shouldn't be a negative, and there was any kind of negative, it should be real life emotions provoked by ingame content.

why can't real life morals, remorse, empathy and fear be pushed towards the game, instead of some artificial 6th sense.

the game should provide the content, that provokes real life emotions. It shouldn't provide artificial emotions as a punishments.

if the game was completely AI control you could say the game has none of these emotions, but it's not, players are controlled by humans, and humans have emotions.

The problem with your argument is -

"the game should provide the content, that provokes real life emotions. It shouldn't provide artificial emotions as a punishments."

People will simply say- it's a game.

Because it is a game, players are in many ways detached from the morals that ground them in real life.

You have players who RP and will not kill a soul or RP a bandit looking to survive , but there are also players who are watching TV and chatting on a cell why they simply snipe players coming by or when they see them with some col gear they want.

DayZ has no choice but to emulate these in game mechanics.

" It shouldn't provide artificial emotions as a punishments."

In real life if you shot someone - there is a punishment wither it society or emotional conflict on reflecting in one's actions.

"if the game was completely AI control you could say the game has none of these emotions, but it's not, players are controlled by humans, and humans have emotions."

But humans see DayZ like all Games as Games. If we didn't then no one would play deathmatch games or they would be going to therapy after they did.

The key is to no say trust this person or don't trust this person in a game mechanic but to --hint to the player that this person might have some blood on their hands from killing players, but you can still trust them if you want-plus there is not chart that says 4 heart beats in a minute = psycho killer, and a new character who has no heart beats might end up as a major player killer but they haven't get a gear or chance to do it yet.

The heartbeat is just to make you wonder and cause the player to feel the tense moment as a reminder this player might have blood on their hands.

I'm sure the system will be tweaked and other systems will branch off to help balance any issues.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

Eh. I think raycasting the sounds would be a better option.

The point of the bandit skin... and even the concept of banditry... is to convey to another person that they are 'shifty'. It is a sort of abstraction of a ton of things that simply can't be implemented right now (or ever).

Certainly it shouldn't be a wall hack, certainly it could use refinements... but I like it enough to try it out. Very few people are truly bandits, even then they are normally lone wolves or hunt in like minded packs.... IDK I like it in theory, haven't yet heard it in game.

To all the people saying:

"I don't want to punish the bandit play style."

Its not punishment of any kind. Certainly nothing like bandit skin was.

Its merely leveling the playing field for those with a little bit more morality than one who is known for back stabbing/ murdering anyone.

In the end. Allowing a sense of trust between people means that the societal aspects will be able to be played out and that this can eventually evolve past a tough and expansive FPS to something truly truly unmatched and never before seen.

[vanrosemont 26]

Until i see a video(s) showing this in action where you can use the heartbeat mechanic through walls' date=' I'm going to toss it up to people just don't want others to know that they kill players.

If you can use it through walls, then yes it should be tweaked so you can't.

What the heart beat emulates the person reading another person's body language/ listen to you gut.

Everyone including Bandits should feel fear due to their actions.

Survivors feel fear in trusting someone.

Bandit's feel fear in killing players.

[/quote']

You're still stuck in the surviver/bandit dogma. If someone wants to kill someone in cold blood then befriend the next guy it should be possible. and the next guy doesnt need no magic 6 spidey sense to decide on which action is the wisest.

[Never 237]

Until i see a video(s) showing this in action where you can use the heartbeat mechanic through walls' date=' I'm going to toss it up to people just don't want others to know that they kill players.

If you can use it through walls, then yes it should be tweaked so you can't.

What the heart beat emulates the person reading another person's body language/ listen to you gut.

Everyone including Bandits should feel fear due to their actions.

Survivors feel fear in trusting someone.

Bandit's feel fear in killing players.

[/quote']

You're still stuck in the surviver/bandit dogma. If someone wants to kill someone in cold blood then befriend the next guy it should be possible. and the next guy doesnt need no magic 6 spidey sense to decide on which action is the wisest.

THIS. So fucking hard THIS.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

You're still stuck in the surviver/bandit dogma. If someone wants to kill someone in cold blood then befriend the next guy it should be possible. and the next guy doesnt need no magic 6 spidey sense to decide on which action is the wisest.

The 'Survivor/Bandit' quandry is a little bit crass as its not fully fleshed out yet. However, its in the game and its a feature that Rocket is desperately trying to improve upon.

Rocket feels that there IS a reason to differentiate between players who just 'Survive' and Players who go out of their way to kill others.

This differentiation can have a number of backings; I personally like the 'abstraction' of body language and ostracization from what (little) society remains.

Fact is this:

Every action has a consequence to your character. You can choose to kill five people for fun/your own survival... but the consequence is that you will be 'renowned' for your deeds.

Why can't you deal with that?

Wear it as a badge of pride or something. Sheesh.

Just because you are a 'shady' person doesn't mean EVERYONE will distrust you. But even if they do? Welcome to the result of your deed. You are now OSTRACIZED from close personal social encounters (ooooohhh nooooooo, like that happens often with people who you aren't TS'ing with).

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Maybe being able to scan through walls is a bit much' date=' but I like the heart beat idea for now. There needs to be a negative to becoming a bandit. Some cost for being a murderer. If there is not, no one will give a second thought as to who they shoot. Using real life examples of not knowing who a "dick" is, or who is a "murderer in an interview" is silly. It's a game. In real life people have morals and remorse and empathy and fear of being put in prison, so there are more nice people than good people. In a game you have none of these things, and therefore no care of who you murder as it has no consequence. Having a negative to becoming a bandit is needed.

[/quote']

there shouldn't be a negative, and there was any kind of negative, it should be real life emotions provoked by ingame content.

why can't real life morals, remorse, empathy and fear be pushed towards the game, instead of some artificial 6th sense.

the game should provide the content, that provokes real life emotions. It shouldn't provide artificial emotions as a punishments.

if the game was completely AI control you could say the game has none of these emotions, but it's not, players are controlled by humans, and humans have emotions.

The problem with your argument is -

"the game should provide the content, that provokes real life emotions. It shouldn't provide artificial emotions as a punishments."

People will simply say- it's a game.

Because it is a game, players are in many ways detached from the morals that ground them in real life.

You have players who RP and will not kill a soul or RP a bandit looking to survive , but there are also players who are watching TV and chatting on a cell why they simply snipe players coming by or when they see them with some col gear they want.

DayZ has no choice but to emulate these in game mechanics.

" It shouldn't provide artificial emotions as a punishments."

In real life if you shot someone - there is a punishment wither it society or emotional conflict on reflecting in one's actions.

"if the game was completely AI control you could say the game has none of these emotions, but it's not, players are controlled by humans, and humans have emotions."

But humans see DayZ like all Games as Games. If we didn't then no one would play deathmatch games or they would be going to therapy after they did.

The key is to no say trust this person or don't trust this person in a game mechanic but to --hint to the player that this person might have some blood on their hands from killing players, but you can still trust them if you want-plus there is not chart that says 4 heart beats in a minute = psycho killer, and a new character who has no heart beats might end up as a major player killer but they haven't get a gear or chance to do it yet.

The heartbeat is just to make you wonder and cause the player to feel the tense moment as a reminder this player might have blood on their hands.

I'm sure the system will be tweaked and other systems will branch off to help balance any issues.

I understand that argument for GTA but..

you're forgetting one thing, That this game (Arma) feels real, and that alone will cause a lot of players to tie in real life morals and emotions to the game.

the majority of players out there didn't shoot on sight at the start of their DayZ life, and if they where given a reason they wouldn't do it now. Make team work more impotent. with objectives that mimic that of the car/heli, to build relationships and bonds.

see http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7036 to understand where I'm coming from.

there is no need for artificial emotions and comic book abilities

[vanrosemont 26]

I can't deal with it because it's an artificial badge which is not needed. If I kill people then how will I be renowned if there are no witnesses ? What makes this game great for me is the lack of game rules. Every rule is management and the less there is the better because rules enforce a certain type of gameplay.

And why would the game enforce the way it's played? Let the players decide. I hate it because when I find someone and I hear the heartbeat I will kill him instantly. And when you have the heartbeat you WILL keep killing instantly because no one will trust you. Perhaps for good reason but why would the game enforce that ? Let our own emotions and judgment be the deciding factor.

Someone doesnt respond to your hails ? Maybe it's time to run, maybe to kill.

Also I'm not a killer in this game. I'm trying to keep this game free from the shackles of enforced gameplay.