Change the shotgun ammo!

[-Gews- 7443]

I read the changelog that said pistols are getting buffed - I hope the shotgun ammo gets updated for DayZ too.

Right now shotgun rounds suck - low effectiveness. I'm talking about the double-barrel, the 870, and the Benelli.

I came up with some suggestions to make the ammunition both more realistic and to give it a better place in the game (none of these suggestions apply to the Winchester, it's different).

My suggestions are:

1. Make slugs do more damage (not Winchester)

2. Make pellets spread less

3. Make individual pellets do less damage

4. Make pellets lose velocity quicker

Reasoning:

1. 12 gauge slugs are very large, blunt-nosed, and soft masses of lead and would cause more damage to a human than many of the FMJ rifle bullets they are currently outclassed by.

2. Current pellet spread is cartoonishly large and ineffective at anything more than point-blank range. Pellets should still be easier to hit with than bullets, but more of them should land on target.

3. Individual pellets currently do more damage than .45 handgun rounds, which is unrealistic. A .45 bullet weighs almost as much as 4 double-ought pellets.This high damage wouldn't be necessary if the spread was reduced and more pellets had a good chance of hitting - right now many pellets will miss.

4. Pellets in real life lose velocity extremely quickly, making them ineffective at long ranges, but currently they lose velocity at the same rate as a Winchester slug or a 12-gauge slug.

Exact proposed changes:

1. Change the hit value of slugs to 13 (leave the Winchester slugs alone!). This would make slugs more powerful than 7.62 within the first 40 meters, after which the slug would rapidly slow down and 7.62 would surpass it.

These were my changes, I simply added a new ammo class:

class B_12Gauge_74Slug2 : BulletBase {

hit = 13;

indirectHit = 0;

indirectHitRange = 0;

cartridge = "FxCartridge_slug";

cost = 5;

typicalSpeed = 400;

visibleFire = 18; // how much is visible when this weapon is fired

audibleFire = 18;

airFriction = -0.005;

caliber = 0.5;

};

2. To make pellets spread less, one needs to add a fireSpreadAngle line (to each weapon class itself, not the ammunition or magazines). This 0.70 value worked well.

class MR43 : Winchester1866 {

model = "\dayz_weapons\models\mr43";

picture = "\dayz_weapons\textures\equip_mr43_CA.paa";

displayname = $STR_WPN_NAME_5;

descriptionShort = $STR_WPN_DESC_5;

fireSpreadAngle = 0.70;

magazines[] = {"2Rnd_shotgun_74Slug", "2Rnd_shotgun_74Pellets"};

(I also changed the reloadTime of the MR43 from 2 to 0.2, it feels much improved, the magazine reload time should be about 4 seconds IMO)

3. Change the new pellet hit value to somewhere in the range of 4.5 to 5 (this still a bit too powerful for individual pellets, but some fudging is required to have a realistic effect when they all hit en masse). These pellets would still be as (or more) effective in combat due to more actually hitting with the tighter pattern.

4. Change the new pellet airFriction value to -0.007 to ensure pellets are effective at close range, but weak at longer range. It's important that pellets lose velocity and damage very quickly. Also change the caliber (penetration) value to 0.25 from the current 0.5 which is shared with slugs, because pellets don't penetrate nearly as well as slugs.

These were my pellet changes:

class B_12Gauge_74Pellets : BulletBase {

hit = 4.5;

simulation = shotSpread;

indirectHit = 0;

indirectHitRange = 0;

cartridge = "FxCartridge_slug";

cost = 5;

typicalSpeed = 400;

visibleFire = 18; // how much is visible when this weapon is fired

audibleFire = 18;

airFriction = -0.007;

caliber = 0.25;

};

Effect:

Changes in spread before / after:

As you can see in the video below, it went from several feet of spread to slightly larger than a torso. The majority of pellets could be kept "on bandit" at ranges under 30 meters.

Video (those are invincible AIs, by the way):

Edited April 22, 2013 by Gews

[Serious Stan 202]

In any case discussing shotguns in dayz, the winchester should not be involved i think.. Its a rifle is it not?

Anyway i too want a shotgun to be a valid weapon to use in DayZ. Right now its just a trash item compared to most other main guns ingame.

But i disagree with the new spread. i think it should be wider and that you could find diffrent types of pellet ammunition like in real life,

Buckshots.

6 pellets

12 pellets

Im not an expert in this area but i know you can get hunting ammo with like 100 pellets in one shot. and 200 :P

probably something in the middle aswell.. like 50 pellets. Ofcourse its limited damage on a human at 100m range but if you fire this from 2 meters in a 10cm wide tree you cut the tree in half (ive done it).

[-Gews- 7443]

In any case discussing shotguns in dayz, the winchester should not be involved i think.. Its a rifle is it not?

Anyway i too want a shotgun to be a valid weapon to use in DayZ. Right now its just a trash item compared to most other main guns ingame.

But i disagree with the new spread. i think it should be wider and that you could find diffrent types of pellet ammunition like in real life,

Buckshots.

6 pellets

12 pellets

Im not an expert in this area but i know you can get hunting ammo with like 100 pellets in one shot. and 200 :P

probably something in the middle aswell.. like 50 pellets. Ofcourse its limited damage on a human at 100m range but if you fire this from 2 meters in a 10cm wide tree you cut the tree in half (ive done it).

I don't think we'll see more pellets in the mod because it's hard-coded at 9, no more, no less, hence the suggestion of reduced spread, right now most of the pellets will miss an enemy.

Ya gotta remember the more pellets, the smaller the pellets and the less they penetrate... remember when Dick Cheney shot that attorney in the face and chest (with over 200 pellets)? The guy lived and was out within a week.

Generally most people won't recommend anything smaller than #4 shot even for a home-defense shotgun intended to be used inside. That's not to say it couldn't kill, but people have survived 000 Magnums to the chest... best to be on the safe side.

Anyways getting off-topic, for the mod we have to make do with 9 pellets :lol:

[Trizzo 632]

Add some chokes for shotguns, and if birds were added to hunt this would be epic!

Add at least 5 shotgun types, maybe more. Good for trade and diversity, adds to the feeling of a desperate scrouge. You want 42g Magnums to defend against bandits? Game says take no4 with this crappy side by side shotgun, work with what you have worm.

4, BB, SSG or SG and Slug...heck magnum...oh gosh so many you could add. But chokes would be nice, we can choose our patterns that way. Nothing like leisurely morning wing shooting to hunting bandits with full choke magum...or a rifled choke for slugs for shits and giggles, they had that option in stalker that was damn epic...over and under with slugs, pulling off headshots was glorious

Edited April 22, 2013 by Trizzo

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

I still think that the health system should be entirely revamped, and hitpoints should be done away with. I've read the threads debating gun damage and what people can survive, but I still think it's silly that someone can jog away from 6 handgun rounds in the upper chest, or that you can kill someone just by shooting them in the foot a few times. I'm really glad to see that the health system is being changed, I just hope that the avatars aren't as hard to kill as they are now.

Good suggestion, though. :beans:

[terminal_boy 860]

The effect you're adding by decreasing shot spread is equivalent to adding choke in an RL shotgun.

A modern LE 15 pellet #1 buckshot round shot through quarter or improved cylinder choke should put at least 10 pellets in the torso of a Figure 11 target at 25 yards.

Go beyond 45-50 yards and you have holes in that 15 pellet pattern where a man could stand without being hit. At this range, each single pellet has the energy of a Makarov round, so multiple hits will be required to kill.

A good slug load should be lethal at 100 yards from a sighted, military shotgun. You'll be doing well to hit anything man-sized sighting with the single bead on a double-barrelled shotgun.

Game loads (BB sized shot and below) are devastating to humans at very close range (15 yards and less). Individual pellet energy drops rapidly after this range and won't penetrate everyday clothing beyond 40 yards, though they're still no fun to get hit in the face with.

[LancerG2 369]

I'm going to have to agree with this one jews. Also man I think they should improve the ammo in the game, like with the whole when you get a shotgun you get 2 round magazines? I think its best if you had shotgun ammo you should have it like in most FPS shooters where you have a crapton of slugs in your ammo belt and every slug you take gets deducted from your shotgun ammo storage.

Overall, You have my beans Goos.

[uweron1011 2]

Nice work! Now we we are waiting for someone to implement on private server