SA: Making Shooting While Driving More Authentic

[DayZoey 110]

Before you keep reading, I want to state clearly that this isn't just another "I want driving and shooting in Stand Alone!" because I've seen this quite a few times and I believe Rocket actually confirmed some sort of way to make vehicle chases more interesting in one of his seminar/interview/expose/whatevers awhile back before he promised Stand Alone for the beginning of 2013.

Some ways I think that would make it more authentic (people keep using the word realistic but to be fair, we're playing a video game and Rocket himself has used the word "Authentic", eschewing the word "realistic" in light of that very fact) would be in the following ways...

Bumps: Yeah this one sounds pretty standard but I don't think aim should be shaky (like you're in pain) but it should be dependent on the kind of surface you're driving on. Though of course because programming individual bumps and heaves in to the terrain specifically would be... well not practical. Instead a random generator whilst aiming from a vehicle to determine how often the aim is needed to be re-calibrated, how much the aim is thrown off and depending on the weapon; whether or not the user is thrown from the vehicle (More on this later). Maybe the following table could be used (or something similar since I don't know jack about programming)...

Smooth paved road: 10-15% chance of hitting a bump, 5-10% that bump will be severe

Frayed or poorly maintained paved road: 15-20% chance of hitting a bump, 5-15% chance it will be severe.

Gravel road: 20-25% chance of hitting a bump, 10-15% chance it will be severe

Heavily driven game trails: 20-30% chance of hitting a bump, 10-20% chance it will be severe

Lightly driven game trails: 25-35% chance of hitting a bump, 10-25% chance it will be severe

Off road, open country: 35-45% chance of hitting a bump, 20-30% chance it will be severe

Off road, lightly forested country: 45-50% chance of hitting a bump, 20-45% chance it will be severe

Off road, heavily forested country: 50-75% chance of hitting a bump, 45-60% chance it will be severe

Consequences of a severe bump would depend on the position of the firing party. There are a lot of variables to account for but just to cover the basics. First the consequences of a severe bump to aim would be if you're looking down your weapon's sights, you would lower your weapon (to "from the hip" firing) and it would throw your up or down a bit once per severe bump, maybe a little bit to the side. This could be different for rifles or weapons with a buttstock because your body would act as a form of suspension, so you wouldn't be forced to lower the weapon to "from the hip" but your aim would be thrown a bit. Light bumps even with pistols and/or weapons without a stock would just have your aim thrown a bit up and down per bump you hit. The consequences of a severe bump would also have a chance (depending on your position in the vehicle) to throw you from it, forcing your companions to either leave you to the wolves or turn back and get your crumpled, broken body. So maybe the following table would apply...

Inside vehicle in a seated position, firing one handed capable weapon: 0% chance of being thrown.

Sticking head out the window to aim down one handed capable weapon's sights: 2-5%

On the back of a motorcycle, seated and holding on to driver: 0-3%

On the back of a motorcycle, firing a one handed capable weapon: 5-10%

In the bed of a truck, firing a one handed capable weapon: 10-15%

In the bed of a truck, firing a two handed weapon: 10-20%

In the passenger seat of a car, sitting on window frame and firing a two handed weapon: 20-50%

Of course, something else that would change these variables would be the speed the vehicle is going.

Between 0 and 10 kph: 0% increase

Between 10 and 20 kph: 5% increase

Between 20 and 30 kph: 5-10% increase

Between 30 and 40 kph: 5-15% increase

Between 40 and 50 kph: 10-20% increase

Between 50 and 60 kph: 20-25% increase

Between 60 and 70 kph: 25-40% increase

Between 70 and 80 kph: 30-50% increase

Between 80 and 90 kph: 40-60% increase

Between 90 and 100 kph: 60-80% increase

Between 100 and 110+ kph: 80-85% increase

If you -really- want to get in depth, then the degree of turn could also dictate how much the person's aim would be thrown a bit to the side or that they would be thrown from the vehicle if they are on the outside edge of the turn if they are wielding a two handed weapon whilst sitting on the window. Outside edge basically meaning if the vehicle is turning left, you are on the right side. If the vehicle is turning right, you are on the left side. You are on the side of the vehicle that it isn't turning in.

10-30 degree turn: 10-30% chance of aim being thrown to the side, 0% chance of being thrown from vehicle.

30-60 degree turn: 30-60% chance of aim being thrown, 33-66% chance of being thrown from vehicle.

60-90 degree turn: 60-90% chance of aim being thrown, 66-90% chance of being thrown from vehicle.

90-120 degree turn (a drift or "E-brake" turn): 100% chance of aim being thrown, 90-99% chance of being thrown from vehicle.

And finally, I don't know if any of you have stuck your head out of a moving car but I think honestly if you are trying to aim a weapon precisely from the outside of a moving vehicle (sticking your head out the window to aim down sights or aiming down the sight of a rifle while sitting on the window frame) I would think that your character would lower their weapon to "From the hip" stance as they blink repeatedly, rub their eyes and are otherwise put in a situation where precision aiming isn't possible. This would only apply to aiming toward the forward axis of the vehicle, aiming to the side of or behind the vehicle wouldn't have this principle apply. This would make chasing someone actually very dangerous if you intended to gun them from your vehicle or had no weapons to speak of and the other car does have people with guns to shoot back at you. Thus it would create a more authentic feel to the game (I feel) and make the decision to chase down a vehicle you just saw a much more carefully thought out one. Risk versus reward sort of deal. Also this could apply to helicopters and firing from them. The following table is basically copied from earlier with a few changes.

Between 0 and 10 kph: 0% chance of aim being lowered

Between 10 and 20 kph: 5% chance of aim being lowered

Between 20 and 30 kph: 5-10% chance of aim being lowered

Between 30 and 40 kph: 5-15% chance of aim being lowered

Between 40 and 50 kph: 10-20% chance of aim being lowered

Between 50 and 60 kph: 20-25% chance of aim being lowered

Between 60 and 70 kph: 25-40% chance of aim being lowered

Between 70 and 80 kph: 30-50% chance of aim being lowered

Between 80 and 90 kph: 40-60% chance of aim being lowered

Between 90 and 100 kph: 60-80% chance of aim being lowered

Between 100 and 110+ kph: 80-85% chance of aim being lowered

Firing weapons from helicopters that aren't one handed should also have an inherent risk should the chopper dip and/or turn too sharply. One handed weapons wouldn't be an issue (even though they'd really be no use aboard an airborne vehicle, their effective range is well below what the engagement range for most combat helicopters is) nor would firing a mounted weapon. (The weapon is attached to the chopper, you are holding on to the chopper). Firing a rifle from an open sided helicopter would require two hands and have an inherent risk. Firing from a seated position like the Littlebird, let's just assume your person isn't stupid and they strap themselves in appropriately. Someone however leaning against the door frame of a Huey or standing on the back ramp to a Mii firing their weapon would be at risk. Also specific seat slots could be alotted to these positions (Since five or six people can't all shoot out the same door of a Huey, one maybe two maximum) that are only able to be taken by people in the chopper. They would sort of be a phantom seat, the player's spot in the chopper still being occupied so someone else can't just take their seat. This would prevent people from loading up a Huey with 3 or 4 more extra people (to be frank if you have that many people in a party, it shouldn't be that hard to find another chopper or vehicle to load them up in anyways.)

So the following table is based on two things, the first being how severe the dip or change of the axis is and the second being that it only applies to the direction a person is capable of falling out of the chopper. For instance, if someone is in the door firing position with their rifle from a Huey, if the chopper suddenly dips its nose upward, their aim would just be thrown a bit. However from the back of a Mii (the Russian troop carrier chopper) if it suddenly dipped its nose in the same fashion they would have a chance (corresponding to the angle and suddenness) of being thrown from the chopper entirely. This is again if the chopper tilts -suddenly-, not gradually. Meaning the chopper would abruptly and rapidly change its axis, giving the player's character less than a few precious seconds to respond as human beings require at least one second but often two or three to recognize that something is a threat and to respond to it accordingly.

10-30 degree change in axis: 5-10% chance of being thrown from the chopper

30-50 degree change in axis: 10-20% chance of being thrown from the chopper

50-80 degree change in axis: 20-60% chance of being thrown from the chopper

80-120 degree change in axis: 60-80% chance of being thrown from the chopper

120-180 degree change in axis: 80-95% chance of being thrown from the chopper.

I didn't include anything from 180 degrees and up because I seriously doubt even the most skilled chopper pilot is capable of getting a helicopter to change it's axis past 180 degrees in less than three or four seconds. If I'm wrong and any -actual- helicopter pilots are out there, please feel free to correct me. I also welcome any sort of footage showing such a stunt captured, pictures being worth 1000 words, moving pictures being worth a million.

And to wrap it all up, depending on the firing position, the player should be limited to a certain firing arc. Just to clarify, the front of the vehicle is our zero degrees going upward in a clockwise direction here. So someone firing from a front passenger seated position could not fire at a 225 degree angle without deafening the driver (front passenger being on the right like in North America in this example) and of course, sticking a gun in their face.

So just a few examples...

Front passenger seated position: 45 degree firing arc

Back of a pick-up truck bed: 45 to 225 degree firing arc

Sitting on window frame firing assault rifle or pistol: 180 to 360 degree firing arc

Front Passenger sticking head out the window with a pistol: 90 and 90 to 180 degree firing arc. (The reason they are seperate is because the player would have to reorient themselves from aiming forward to aiming backwards, a few precious seconds to twist their upper bodies in to doing so.)

So... hope this is something at least new on the subject. It started as a reply to another thread but the reply became so big I felt it deserved its own thread.

[shrykull 3]

I want to be able to move positions in the back of a truck or be able to move freely inside of a bus to choose my firing positions, and I should be able to use my weapon out of a chopper as well.

[terminal_boy 860]

If the devs model shooting from moving vehicles correctly, you'll need an Uzi or Mac 10 to hit anything. And that anything you'll hit won't be what you were aiming at.

This is why military vehicles have belt fed weapons because you need to fire a whole bunch of bullets quickly to hit a target when moving at speed.

[DayZoey 110]

@Shrykull: Those would be nice, yes within the constraints of the vehicle.

@Terminal Boy: Indeed but you're going to have the people who will try and fire pistols or rifles or other magazine fed weapons from their cars. And you can see from the table that the odds of hitting anything while moving in a vehicle begin to diminish very sharply. Firing belt or box fed weapons from a vehicle as military vehicles often do is just applying the law of averages to hitting an unlikely percent. Fire enough bullets at your target and you're -bound- to hit it eventually.

Edited April 3, 2013 by DayZoey

[badluckburt 974]

BIS originally intended Arma 2 to support this out of the box but they dropped it before releasing - probably because of some of the reasons you stated (two handed weapons in banking helicopters).

If they implement it in SA, which would be very cool then shouldn't it be possible to shoot at any occupant while inside the vehicle? I'll be driving around playing Garbage, I think I'm paranoid! :P

Edited April 3, 2013 by BadLuckBurt

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

If they implement it in SA, which would be very cool then shouldn't it be possible to shoot at any occupant while inside the vehicle? I'll be driving around playing Garbage, I think I'm paranoid! :P

I think that's a necessary addition to shooting while in a vehicle, different stances for shooting would be nice too.

[CreepySalad 108]

That'd be cool. I like it.

I also think one of the consequences of a severe bump would be having a chance of your weapon falling out of your hands.

That'd be cool.

[DayZoey 110]

That's actually not bad, yeah. The chance of dropping your gun would have people very cautious. Though in all fairness, I'm not sure it fits. When I went to a firing range to fire a handgun I was told to hold it very tightly and lean in to it just a touch. Anyone given the same advise wouldn't be likely to drop it if they were holding it properly.