3rd Person View, why I support it, and why it should stay in game

[Derbysieger (DayZ) 0]

FPV' date=' try it, learn it, get used to it. The immersion factor is so much more greater with FPV.

In any case, servers should standardize their settings so that you know what u are connecting to. Now almost all servers have Regular mode and it is 50/50 if there is a)TPV b)crosshair enabled.

Btw, OP left out from his statement the negative sides of TPV. Both FPV and TPV have good sides and bad sides. Imo the bad stuff for TPV (seeing over obstacles, abusive opportunities in PvP) outweigh the little benefit from larger field of view.

The link posted earlier pretty much summarizes why TPV and crosshair should not be enabled in PvP scenarios.

[/quote']

I couldn't agree more! Thank you.

[alienfreak 6]

FPV' date=' try it, learn it, get used to it. The immersion factor is so much more greater with FPV.

In any case, servers should standardize their settings so that you know what u are connecting to. Now almost all servers have Regular mode and it is 50/50 if there is a)TPV b)crosshair enabled.

Btw, OP left out from his statement the negative sides of TPV. Both FPV and TPV have good sides and bad sides. Imo the bad stuff for TPV (seeing over obstacles, abusive opportunities in PvP) outweigh the little benefit from larger field of view.

The link posted earlier pretty much summarizes why TPV and crosshair should not be enabled in PvP scenarios.

[/quote']

The sad part about his post is not that he left out all down sides of TPV. I mean thats dire, sure. But the mainpart is that he presents TPV as the saviour out of unrealistic gaming experience and yet he fails at every possible level because ArmA 2 already provides means to do what with FPV what he says you need TPV for.

You can change FOV (both by config and by pushing those fancy + and - keys).

You can add multiple screens to have about 180° native view.

You can use TrackIR to increase your visual awarness.

Arguing that you need cheatervision for any of the above is lame.

[Freyar 8]

This notion of "It's cheating" seems to be misplaced. In a mixed environment, each has their own benefits and disadvantages (Third Person tends to result in misses with weapons at times despite the crosshair [granted, I prefer to play without the crosshair anyway]) in such a way that switching back and forth is fair enough.

It's the culmination that having something that represents what is essentially my tool for "agency" makes for a much more appealing game. First-Person views are nice, but running for 15-30 minutes in first person kinda makes me sick and is less visually appealing.

[alienfreak 6]

This notion of "It's cheating" seems to be misplaced. In a mixed environment' date=' each has their own benefits and disadvantages (Third Person tends to result in misses with weapons at times despite the crosshair [granted, I prefer to play without the crosshair anyway']) in such a way that switching back and forth is fair enough.

It's the culmination that having something that represents what is essentially my tool for "agency" makes for a much more appealing game. First-Person views are nice, but running for 15-30 minutes in first person kinda makes me sick and is less visually appealing.

1. Third person lets you see things you cannot see.

2. The crosshair is as inaccurate in first person as it is in third person

3. Nothing prevents you from just aiming at a person with your ironsights if you are in tpv. It is no different if you are in tpv or fpv if you wanna aim down your sights actually.

4. FPV makes you sick? Disable post processing and head bob.

FPV & Bicycles WILL MAKE YOU SICK! :P

[Bandit (DayZ) 3]

Youll never see tpv on our servers, but youre more than welcome to join.

[Freyar 8]

Even with headbobbing down to zero, it's still pretty bad.

[Atkins (DayZ) 4]

It's a matter of getting used to it. I am now so used to the Arma's FPV and its "clunkiness" that other FPS games where the avatar moves like a train in a rails feels just unnatural and weird.

[tuchmaipp 2]

how is it bad? with head bob turned off everything is just.. flat. flat and smooth. it becomes any other FPS in terms of screen shaking/wobbling/whatever so i dont understand how you are getting sick

[alienfreak 6]

It's a matter of getting used to it. I am now so used to the Arma's FPV and its "clunkiness" that other FPS games where the avatar moves like a train in a rails feels just unnatural and weird.

Because it is true.

ArmA 2 might be a bit clunky when it comes to aborting animations and thus it feels weird a lot of times.

But BF3 or whatever you play otherwise just feels like Quake 3 compared to real the real world :)

[dunkhan 8]

I don't have a problem with 3rd person mode. I hate to use it myself but I don't care if others do. The problem is that 3rd person is only on for regular mode servers, and regular mode also has nametags that pop up when you mouse over someone. This is not ok. On the other hand if we can get third person without the name tags I would be very much in favour, as I think 3rd person is the reason so many people play the regular servers and I would like to see the population return to the veteran servers. 3rd person is not cheating, name tags are cheating.

Edit: I don't know why people hate head bob so much, it feels immersive and realistic to me. I know computer nerds don't get out much let alone run (I know I don't), but the human head is not gyrostabilised. When you run irl your view jumps around and it is harder to see details or detect movement.

[Kophka 109]

It's an easy enough solution. Keep 3rd person for realistic FOV and peripheral vision, get rid of crosshair and name showing. If you want to shoot, you go 1st person. when running around, you can use 3rd. Simple. :)

[tearran 2]

lol you guys get pretty angry from getting pvp killed don't you? If your worried play on FPV only servers so "arma II noobs like me don't kill you."

So reading this thread, apparently 120 = 180 degree vision. Or im supposed to edit my config file so I get massive unusable fisheye vision. if that doesn't work i need to invest in 50$+ worth of equipment so you can be happy? That makes total sense.

I could give a flying shit if you guys only play on FPV servers, People need to stop bitching that the game should be FPV only, BECAUSE THERES THE OPTION TO DISABLE IT SERVERSIDE. (in caps so the people seeing red can read it again as it was in the orginal Post)

[rynovh 0]

Edit: I don't know why people hate head bob so much' date=' it feels immersive and realistic to me. I know computer nerds don't get out much let alone run (I know I don't), but the human head is not gyrostabilised. When you run irl your view jumps around and it is harder to see details or detect movement.

[/quote']

Even with "headbob" turned off, in-game, you move nothing resembling "irl". I work for a private security company in Florida watching cargo at the waterfront. I carry a rifle or shotgun every day at work. I don't jiggle around with it when I walk or run. Your eyes and brain compensate for the movement. A video game can't do that. I have no problem with first person view, but like Freyar said, being forced to run with it in game is sickening.

My ideal situation would be no name scanning or crosshairs (because both of those are ridiculous) but allow third person view for when we have to jog for an hour.

[b00ce 5]

You can turn the head-bob off in the options menu.

[oktyabr 53]

Keep it civil guys. Do not turn this into one of those over done PVP arguments.

[alienfreak 6]

Edit: I don't know why people hate head bob so much' date=' it feels immersive and realistic to me. I know computer nerds don't get out much let alone run (I know I don't), but the human head is not gyrostabilised. When you run irl your view jumps around and it is harder to see details or detect movement.

[/quote']

Even with "headbob" turned off, in-game, you move nothing resembling "irl". I work for a private security company in Florida watching cargo at the waterfront. I carry a rifle or shotgun every day at work. I don't jiggle around with it when I walk or run. Your eyes and brain compensate for the movement. A video game can't do that. I have no problem with first person view, but like Freyar said, being forced to run with it in game is sickening.

My ideal situation would be no name scanning or crosshairs (because both of those are ridiculous) but allow third person view for when we have to jog for an hour.

Your brain stabilizes your feeling. So you do not really notice that your head is going up and down.

But if you are running you will be able to spot less because of the movement of your head.

And I still do not get why people want 3rd so bad if they are moving around with head bob off.

The only thing I know off in which the 1st person becomes unbearable is riding a bike. I heard every time you ride a bike in 1st person a kitten dies.

[dz302 1]

This is terrible reasoning. It's possible to increase your FOV in the ArmA engine, and the FOV you gain from 3rd person doesn't justify the ways it is currently exploited (ie: seeing other people around corners/obstacles while remaining completely hidden.

[tearran 2]

This is terrible reasoning. It's possible to increase your FOV in the ArmA engine' date=' and the FOV you gain from 3rd person doesn't justify the ways it is currently exploited (ie: seeing other people around corners/obstacles while remaining completely hidden.

[/quote']

Exploit? It's not an exploit. its 3rd person perspective.

And I disagree going prone in a grass or hiding in a bush and having my vision completely blocked by one leaf or blade of grass in FPV is frustrating and annoying. 3rd person allows for things you cannot do in game, For instance use your hand to move the grass/leaves out of your way while not moving 2m to the left. Or looking around corners without exposing 2/3 of your body while leaning.

FPV leaves a gap thats just as diminshing to gameplay as 3rd person is. Thats why I play on servers with both.

Im not saying the game should be completely 3rd, and I really don't care if cross-hairs are on or off. 3rd person in Arma to me is essential to fill the awareness gap that FPV cannot compensate for.

And like i said, dont like third person dont play on third person servers. I wont play on locked FPV servers so we are all good.

My argument is just it should be kept in game for players who have a preference, not removed because off players who are used to traditional FPS not military sims.

**edit, also to all those suggesting that FOV can be changed in FPV that's true, but every increase over 90 degrees begins to fish-eye your vision, distorting it. try playing with 180 FOV in FP, you wont have fun.

[ParaB 114]

I'm not a big fan of the 3rd person view because it makes it far too easy to look around corners and above walls etc. And while it certainly helps to alleviate some of Arma's clumsy movement/control scheme it can be abused far too much for my tastes.

As long as there are enough vet servers without this feature it doesn't bother me though.

[funionz 7]

This is terrible reasoning. It's possible to increase your FOV in the ArmA engine' date=' and the FOV you gain from 3rd person doesn't justify the ways it is currently exploited (ie: seeing other people around corners/obstacles while remaining completely hidden.

[/quote']

Exactly. It's not a quote un quote 'exploit', but the only reason people use it and defend the inclusion of it, is because it gives them an advantage in a combat scenario. There's no valid reason to use it otherwise.

[rynovh 0]

Exactly. It's not a quote un quote 'exploit'' date=' but the [b']only reason people use it and defend the inclusion of it, is because it gives them an advantage in a combat scenario. There's no valid reason to use it otherwise.

Incorrect. I never use it in a combat scenario. I literally only use it when I'm on a long hike, and that's it. I know of other players that do this as well. However, I realize that a majority of the people using third person use it to be more aware of their surroundings.

If third person view is left, and crosshairs disabled, it would put people using it as an "exploit" at a disadantage (in theory), as they would now have to peek around a corner in third person, then switch to first person to be able to aim, taking up an extra second or two of their time.

[funionz 7]

Exactly. It's not a quote un quote 'exploit'' date=' but the [b']only reason people use it and defend the inclusion of it, is because it gives them an advantage in a combat scenario. There's no valid reason to use it otherwise.

Incorrect. I never use it in a combat scenario. I literally only use it when I'm on a long hike, and that's it. I know of other players that do this as well. However, I realize that a majority of the people using third person use it to be more aware of their surroundings.

If third person view is left, and crosshairs disabled, it would put people using it as an "exploit" at a disadantage (in theory), as they would now have to peek around a corner in third person, then switch to first person to be able to aim, taking up an extra second or two of their time.

Then you are one of the very few who don't. Also, to be more aware of your surroundings? Am I the only one who constantly looks around in first person mode to keep an eye on things? Is there not a feature to move just your head included in the game? Even without crosshairs its still an unfair advantage, leaning is there for a reason too.

[codeine 3]

Incorrect. I never use it in a combat scenario. I literally only use it when I'm on a long hike' date=' and that's it. I know of other players that do this as well. [i']However, I realize that a majority of the people using third person use it to be more aware of their surroundings.

Same reasons for me to use it. Using 3rd person in combat is retarded have you actually seen where your ironsight lines up while aiming in 3rd person it pretty much aims at the floor.

3rd person also helps me position my character to make sure im concealed from vision, if i was in fpv i would have no idea how good id be hidden, where as in real life i could easily know instantly if i would be seen or not. FPV has its limits and 3rd person helps close in those gaps from real life, with some side effects like looking around walls.

And the animations are mint xD

It has its pros and cons, just leave it and join a vet server.

[BlackAlpha 12]

This is terrible reasoning. It's possible to increase your FOV in the ArmA engine' date=' and the FOV you gain from 3rd person doesn't justify the ways it is currently exploited (ie: seeing other people around corners/obstacles while remaining completely hidden.

[/quote']

Exploit? It's not an exploit. its 3rd person perspective.

You failed to include the reason why it's not an exploit or a cheat. You didn't explain why it's not cheating when you use 3rd person view to look around obstacles and corners, while staying hidden behind the obstacle or corner.

[concerned mom 0]

3rd person view just feels right for this game to me. It's a big plus and makes me want to keep playing.