The act of banditry, not so far from realism... (KOS)

[Skinny_Man 7]

Hello dayz community, I have some what of a theory to share with you about one of the social aspect of the game. Now take in mind this is just my opinion, and I have very little knowledge on

how people would react in an end of the world scenario.

Now this is something that has happened to all of us, veterans and bambies alike. We have all been killed by someone, in some way or another, by the guy we just seen (Or haven't seen for

that matter.). I have heard people say at how unrealistic this is, and how people in this kind of scenario wouldn't just be running and gunning. Well I beg to differ, they would. Now don't get me

wrong this is what the majority of people are doing (Just gearing up to hunt human players) in the mod. But something we also have to take into consideration is that its a game that puts guns

in the hands of players with a nefarious outlook on the game, so it makes sense that this is the goal of most players. But if we take this scenario and apply it to the real world I think it has a

similar outcome but not on such a vast scale. It would be madness, chaos at its finest, and we have psychopaths and murders in real life, do we not? Who is to say that someone wouldn't just

roam the streets looking for people to kill. I mean, would taking a zombies life be as satisfying as slaying a living human? The zombie has already lost its life, the human has only lost his/her

"humanity", for lack of a better word. So its obvious that if someone takes pleasure in killing that the human would be the better choice. So its apparent that this is something that has the

possibility of being very real. Though like I said, I'm not an expert.

But lets take another aspect of banditry that is rarely seen and may not even happen at all (Has yet to happen to me), and that is having your gear stolen at gun point. Now like I said this

hasn't happened to me, nor have I even heard of it happening, so I can't say with positivity that it exists. This, in my opinion (If we were to take the scenario to real life), would be the more

popular way to being a bandit rather than murder, though its not something that I have ever seen/heard inside the mod. The reason I believe this would be the most popular way (In real life)

is because people just don't have what it takes to kill someone, and do it looking into their eyes for that matter. But then again, would people still have that level of "humanity" left? Just

something to think about I suppose.

Now lets get the point of this wall of text. There needs to be more incentive to play the game as you would in real life, because its very unlikely that there would just be nothing but murders in

a real life scenario. But with that being said there should not be punishment (Or reward) for the way you like to play. Take the bandit mask, and hero skin for example, is this not a punishment

and reward system? If this scenario were to be posed in real life, such a system would not exist. You wouldn't know the "good" guys between the "bad", and in my opinion this

punishment/reward system we have now is majorly flawed (Destroys the realism for that matter.). From what I get out of the ideal sense of the game is that its to simulate this sort of scenario

(But lets not get ahead of our selves its still just a game) and this system takes away from that. Though what can you incentivise to keep people playing? For this seems like its the only goal

to achieve, other than getting gear out the ass. Lets look at online stats. I know, I know, stats can be a bad thing for a game and could in its self destroy the game play (Witch is what I'm trying

to "fix".). But don't add stats that would do just that (kill/death ratio, accuracy, number of murders, ect.) . There are tons of statistics I could name that would keep the foundation of the game

intact, without distracting the player from the game its self. Now I do remember that dean said there would be more goals in the stand alone, so I am just going by what I have to work with at

this exact moment. Its a problem, and its a problem that takes away from not only the realism but takes away from the submersion of the game. And In my opinion those are the two most

important things in the game.

*So what would you add to keep the game "fresh", without adding punishment and reward systems?

Discuss.

-Spaces were added between lines to keep it easy on the eyes

- TL:DR

There isn't one, don't be a lazy!

[Fitzkrieg 129]

See, I really like what you're saying. It adds a whole different view on the KOS mentality. That I approve of, creativity and the mind at work. +1 beans for you. However, that being said there still are people who see the medics and see the reddit rescue squad and think "I can't wait to kill these people who are trying to help!" A personal idea that I don't understand because I haven't shot someone before they shot me since 2012. I still feel bad whenever I shoot someone that I haven't gotten to talk to or make an assumption of by watching their actions.

-Quick addition to all this, I love that this game has bandits, they make everything enjoyable when the Zeds are pants on head idiotic, but I don't like that people just turn into foam-at-the-mouth psychos once they find baby's first makarov.

[Skinny_Man 7]

I agree, this game would be rainbows and unicorns without bandits (A very bad thing, for the game would be boring.). But you shouldn't be able to tell the difference between a hero and a bandit.

[Imafighter 236]

"

we have psychopaths and murders in real life, do we not? Who is to say that someone wouldn't just

roam the streets looking for people to kill.

They are the minority. We are not all psychopaths with the intentions to murder someone.

[Skinny_Man 7]

@ Imafighter

You are going to have to explain deeper into that. You quoted me when I was talking about taking the ingame scenario and putting it to real life. I never said that they were a majority, but would exist.

So are you talking about murders and psychopaths being a minority in real life or the game?

[Skat3rat 1633]

"

They are the minority. We are not all psychopaths with the intentions to murder someone.

A zombie apocalypse could possible send some people over the edge, turning them into psychopaths.

A big issue with humanity and such in this mod is that no one knows how they will actually act in a real zombie apocalypse. Everyone can say what they want about how they'll act, but until it actually happens, you don't know for sure.

"War is romantic to those who have not experienced it"

That is how it'll be for an apocalypse. You have all these fantasies about it, but when it actually hits you, things change in a heartbeat.

[Skinny_Man 7]

@ Skat3rat

That is a very good point you bring up. And is even a factor I forgot to put in.

I said there needed to be more incentive to play the game as you would in real life. But that is very hard because no one knows how they would react. So the best thing I could say is make the best guess possible.

[thelonewarrior 886]

You also need to realise real life there are more than just gamers with little else to do then shoot people

In real life there are more factors, people need people , lone bandits won't last long, as soon as they get ill or break a bone they are screwed without a doctor

I think that there would be more grouping up whether they are friendly or bandit and less loners but I think there will be just as many bandits as people trying to help each other and just survive and build defences

Edited March 21, 2013 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[Skinny_Man 7]

@ Regulator Lone

Yes, very right. But community really wasn't the main point of the post so I did leave that out. There are tons of scenarios and other factors I didn't mention, mainly because I wanted to stay on topic.

[thelonewarrior 886]

Like the OP said, just because you want to have peoples stuff doesnt mean you want to kill them. There are many types of thieves in the world from pick pockets to burglers and armed robbers.

Imagine these kind of people, you will get bandits who kill for their loot, some who wait until dark and try and steal things because they are not a killer and those who are brave enough to hold someone up but inisde dont want to take a life, they might just rob them for weapons or supplies and leave them

(in the film The Road, there is a guy who robs the main characters and tries to sneak away when he could have easily killed them, despite being scared and desperate and hungry he choose not to kill them because he wasnt a killer)

Gunshots attract zombies, in real life firing shot might just bring a horde down upon you, remember its just 1 bite not like in the game. So sneaking up and holding a gun to the back of someones head is much better for your own protection than you think instead of just shooting someone.

Obviously you might get shot in an open field with no zombies, but in more built up areas where the fight for resources is more desperate even most killers will play it smart

I do think the bandit and hero skins should go, as far as I know they wont be there in the standalone

If in the standalone the zombies are a real threat, we may see more (or at least some) hold ups where players want loot from someone else but firing their gun might mean the death of both players. I would like to see more holdups but ive never seen one in game, it would be fun to be at eiether end of the holdup

(I ve told plenty of people to drop their weapon or die, they always choose death)

Edited March 21, 2013 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[kingfury4 65]

I read some of this thread but

this started to annoy me so I quit

[Imafighter 236]

@ Imafighter

You are going to have to explain deeper into that. You quoted me when I was talking about taking the ingame scenario and putting it to real life. I never said that they were a majority, but would exist.

So are you talking about murders and psychopaths being a minority in real life or the game?

In real life. Not everybody would be out there at each others throats.

/zombie apocalypse

/care more about killing people

[Perigrin 105]

ive robbed some people at gunpoint

most fun ever had

[Xianyu 820]

Okay, before I read your post, here's a tip.

When you write something up in notepad, TURN OFF WORD WRAP BEFORE COPY PASTING.

Kthnx.

[bfisher 561]

Somehow I doubt that in any post-apocalypse scenario you would have a lot of people roaming the wasteland outfitted like a Delta Force sniper wearing a ghillie suit and an .50cal anti-material rifle just randomly shooting people.

[BearGravy 53]

I like your words. You have my beans.

[toxicsludge 406]

I have 2 small children. I have never shot a gun in my life. In real life, if we all were in the same kind of situation, you can bet your arse I would have my finger on the trigger with my eye down the sight on anyone that even remotely looked like threatening the scraps of comfort and safety I could provide for my family. So yes, I do think this kind of situation could turn the most placid person into a killer. As much as I hate it, I totally understand the KOS mentality this game so often supplies.

[Michael (DayZ) 5]

I actually agree with what you're saying, I mean. my safety in game or real life is more important than a guy's that I don't even know. Selfish I know but, Such is life in the zone.

Also, It depends on where the randomer is encountered. Such as. I was flying a Plane and saw another person flying a chopper, I don't know if they were hostile or not however, the fact they were in a Helicopter showed to me they knew what they were doing and therefore to me seemed as if they had some form of skill and wouldn't randomly kill innocents.

So I just guess the severity of the situation, or how tense it is, Distance, group numbers, A whole lot of factors. But Mostly for me, if there is a guy in front of me with a weapon, I want to eliminate the threat.

[Michael (DayZ) 5]

Like the OP said, just because you want to have peoples stuff doesnt mean you want to kill them.

I also agree with this, However if you just wanted to rob someone in game it's not that simple since another player if they lost their items they might as well restart

so just attacking you back would be a very viable thing to do since dying wouldn't matter to them.

Situations like that can go any way, just like in real life however people don't act like they would in real life

So basically;

RL - you'd give your money to a guy pointing a gun at you (unless you're an expert in krav maga)

In game - you'd attack the guy with an axe by sprinting at him from 20 meters away cos' you don't care, you're going to respawn

[floogy (DayZ) 25]

I think self preservation in real life is what keeps people from going totally nuts in these type situations. Let's face it. Taking someone's life is risky to your own usually. I understand having to defend yourself and your family, something I am a staunch defender of in real life. I will not be an unarmed victim. But you likely would not be putting yourself into lots of bad situations like in the game. You're not going to go scavenging in Cherno with your family, LOL. C'mon kids! let's go to the supermarket and see if we can find another ALICE pack!

In a lot of these situations people are going got hunker down and ride it out. If you had to defend yourself, so be it. But even most of the 'bad guys' would likely value their lives enough to keep to themselves. That's why real life criminals are almost always complete cowards who will not place themselves in significant danger. Which is why they target elderly, infirmed and unarmed people. What kind of bandit attacks an armed, able bodied adult?

LA riots for example, armed store owners protected their shops quite effectively while police were overwhelmed. Looters are more concerned about getting shot than stealing from someone who poses a threat. Sociopaths are still a minority, despite what DayZ has taught us. :lol:

[DazTroyer 227]

Being a bandit is fun, video game death is cheap (even in a perma death one like DayZ). I'd like to think, at the end of the world, humanity would prevail and we would help, rather than kill our fellow human beings. :)

[nox81 28]

I dont mind banditry when done with a bit of brutal savvy. I like to see an organised, well armed group of bandits raiding towns as a group, driving in a bus together, attacking other 'groups' camps, hunting them down etc. fighting other organsied groups, doing hold ups.

What i hate is what i experienced for the first time last night, people who camp the spawn points wait for you to appear, attack you while your unarmed, shot you in the legs and while your lay there do rediculous tea-bag moves over you, talk shit in a whiny voice down the mic before putting a satchel charge next to you and killing you. Its just immature and pointless to me, the game can be very immersive and atmospheric, but shit like that belongs elsewhere.

The problem is to facilitate all the great things in the game you need freedom, and freedom will bring that sort of opportunity for some idiots. When servers are plauged with that kind of thing people need to club together to deal with it and help each other loot and move away from the coast or kill the troll bandits doing it. Problem was all the other lone wolves were just killing each other too but with well armed bandits just hanging around waiting for the new spawns it made things really frustrating. i guess the only solution is to get a yourself 'home' server where you know that kind of thing will either get stamped on or does not happen?

What i would like to see though regarding appearances is more customisation options with what you wear, how you look and the potential protection it offers you etc as opposed to the current hero/bandit system, maybe the standalone will have it?

Edited March 22, 2013 by BenjamK

[Skinny_Man 7]

Funny how no one commented on the hero and bandit skins... Did no one read the entire post?

[Sabre (DayZ) 4]

There was far less KoS incidents before DayZ came to reddit. Once that happened the inevitable horde of CoD and BF players has saturated this game, and they have effectively made that strategy the only viable way to play. I remember the first few weeks where people would actually help strangers, and where you'd actually be glad to meet other players. Now other players are at best annoying.

And all this shit about how people would do that in RL and how realistic it is.. Bullocks, people are only doing it because online multiplayer always foster dipshit attitudes.

Basically the only people you can trust are rl friends playing with you, everyone else WILL backstab you, if not for your stuff then just for the lulz.

[Ioncannon 10]

Most people you would ever meet in real life could not hit the broadside of a barn with a gun, nor would they be familiar enough with ranged weaponry to know the many different forms of how to even load it if they found one.

Video games = tweenys gone wild because they can act all "clockwork orange" on people without someone slapping the holy shit out of them for even pointing that gun at them. Sandbox games like this mod can be fantastic and horribly annoying depending on who you encounter, just like in real life.

Only difference is that in real life, myself and my group of close friends are avid shooters with our own personal collections. We would be fine. The majority of society in a real scenario? No so fine. But yea, the KOS issue would depend on a lot, as you age if you are intelligent you learn to trust your instincts, you usually can detect mental cases a mile off.

So in answer to your question, it would really depend on the situation at the time, in a rushed scenario, in an actual crisis, I'd certainly shoot first and ask questions later. My safety and my family/friends are foremost over everything else.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Ioncannon